As 8s by BigBalls

Submitted by : Daut

PokerStars Game #6506688655: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2006/10/03 - 15:58:12 (ET)
Table 'Ningxia' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: bouh ($532 in chips)
Seat 3: Castorian ($240 in chips)
Seat 4: browerkid ($396 in chips)
Seat 5: Daut44 ($518.10 in chips)
Seat 6: cattsm ($110.40 in chips)
Daut44: posts small blind $2
cattsm: posts big blind $4
Castorian: posts big blind $4

Holecards
Dealt to Daut44
bouh: calls $4
Castorian: checks
browerkid: folds
Daut44: calls $2
cattsm: checks

Flop (Pot : $16)

   
Daut44: bets $12
cattsm: folds
beaver47 joins the table at seat #2
bouh: raises $20 to $32
Castorian: folds
Daut44: calls $20

Turn (Pot : $80)

   
Daut44: checks
bouh: bets $68
Daut44: folds
bouh collected $78 from pot
bouh: doesn't show hand

Summary
Total pot $80 | Rake $2
Board  
Seat 1: bouh collected ($78)
Seat 3: Castorian folded on the Flop
Seat 4: browerkid (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Daut44 (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 6: cattsm (big blind) folded on the Flop

good fold

nice fold sir

????????? CALL

i thought this was fairly straightforward, but there are a few interesting key points in it.

rhaegar told me he would check/call the flop. i considered it, but against the other 2 players in the hand, i was going to 3bet all in for sure. against bouh, a pretty solid regular, no way. which line do you guys prefer? does anyone actually 3bet the flop against a regular? i think its suicide but maybe some of you would.

does anyone ever check call the turn? i think his most likely hands are definitely 55 77, with an outside shot at 78 or maybe some random other draws like 66. the problem is, i dont have odds to hit my flush, if i hit 2 pair its probably not good, if i hit trips thats probably not good, so if im calling the turn do you think it would be smart to bluff a 4 or 9 river (especially when he could have a 6)? how about if i hit my flush. how much do i frontbet?

i really thought this was an easy fold but a few people have asked me about this hand so i thought id put it up for discussion.

you know you can edit your own posts

On October 03 2006 14:37 TalentedTom wrote: ????????? CALL

u cannot make this call OOP

Stacks are decent size... I would take this hand to war. In my books this is a 100% call, I can't see myself folding this...

u can only call if 8 and A are outs and in this case bigballs does not think they are and so u have to fold.

edit: unless u can get it allin on a spade river which i doubt u can

man i go to war on flop all day with this just get that shit in plus he doesnt have 88

yeah, thor i agree - this is such a weak and maybe -ev fold.

if your goal is to "look for a better spot" your giving up a lot of equity by folding hands like this

thor why would u wanna go broke in this unraised pot with a pair of 8's and a flush draw? any hand thats calling turn here has us murdered (4-6,6-9,7-8,5-7, 5-5, 7-7, any combo 2spades+pair etcetc). Do you do this for image reasons or do you think we can push him off a better hand (7-8 or 5-7)? Thx for ur help .

Tom would you consider pushing this in on the turn or flatcalling?

you dont know his hand range... + your not going broke your just being asked to commit $68 more - given stack sizes + bet size (it's only a 17bb bet) this is a 100% no brainer

On another note I'm almost 100% sure you get paid if you hit, bouh does not have the displine to lay down hands he will play JJ+ all in preflop. I'm 100% sure if you make a flush here you can lead out for pot and expect at least a call (if not a reraise). This guy is a complete fish

tom he limped utg and as a decent regular i doubt hes doing that without a pocket pair or suited connector. so i suppose im losing equity if he has T9s, but he often has a set here i think.

taking it to war on the flop is a lot lot better than calling the turn though. but man, now im all screwed up, i only have one rule in this world and its that thorladen is never wrong

im also very curious to hear what thor has to say on this :o

ok good questions:

1you go to war cuz i might be way ahead
2.sometimes you get folds when your behind
3.you play your sets same way and then they have to decide if they want a slight edge against this hand and drawing virtually dead against 88
4.I love to suck out and you making a bet against a set thats bad but not so awful that u cant stand it
5.Its important to show gamble

probably more reasons but for now thats good

I think #5 is very important - going in as a underdog from time to time is excellent for your long term image. People will be more inclined to give you action. Maybe that's why my analysis of this player is a complete fish