interesting hand

Submitted by : thorladen

Seat 1: ReadMyAvatar ( $11646.32)
Seat 2: crazy_trader ( $8366)
Seat 3: RockPupu ( $4773.50)
Seat 4: binda ( $19682.55)
Seat 5: SemiSuited ( $3391)
Seat 6: icesfo ( $1830.81)
Seat 7: makbelieve ( $6450.68)
Seat 8: thorladen ( $7891.90)
Seat 9: MeLuckyDucky ( $3084)
Seat 10: kineticpop ( $5447)
SemiSuited posts small blind (25)
icesfo posts big blind (50)

Holecards
Dealt to thorladen
makbelieve folds.
thorladen raises (200) to 200
MeLuckyDucky calls (200)
kineticpop folds.
ReadMyAvatar folds.
crazy_trader did not respond in time.
crazy_trader folds.
RockPupu folds.
binda calls (200)
SemiSuited folds.
icesfo folds.
** Dealing Flop ** : [,, ]
thorladen checks.
MeLuckyDucky checks.
binda checks.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ ]
thorladen checks.
MeLuckyDucky bets (450)
binda calls (450)
thorladen calls (450)
** Dealing River ** : [ ]
thorladen checks.
MeLuckyDucky bets (1200)
binda raises (2400) to 2400
thorladen folds.
MeLuckyDucky raises (1234) to 2434
MeLuckyDucky is all-In.
binda calls (34)
Creating Main Pot with $6890 with MeLuckyDucky
** Summary **
Main Pot: $6890 | | Rake: $3
Board: [ ]

ReadMyAvatar balance $11646.32, didn't bet (folded)
crazy_trader balance $8366, didn't bet (folded)
RockPupu balance $4773.50, didn't bet (folded)
binda balance $23488.55, bet $3084, collected $6890, net +$3806 [ a full house, Eights full of threes -- ]
SemiSuited balance $3366, lost $25 (folded)
icesfo balance $1780.81, lost $50 (folded)
makbelieve balance $6450.68, didn't bet (folded)
thorladen balance $7241.90, lost $650 (folded)
MeLuckyDucky balance $0, lost $3084 [ a straight, five to nine -- ]

kineticpop balance $5447, didn't bet (folded)

youre a sick bastard

what? i really see no way for you to do this...other than being psychic. can you please explain thor? id love to learn your thought processes on all streets.

Ok, heres my take.

this is a really safe board for AA. there are no draws, so people are drawing to 2 outs or something runner runner, or they have us drawing to 2 outs. so he checks the flop for pot control cause if he builds a huge pot out of position against presumably good players, it will be really tough to lay down AA unless there is ridiculous action later on such a safe board. so the flop check is more for pot control, seeing as how thor and one of the players both have 8k+ on the table.

when its checked through, thor can reasonably assume that nobody has TT-KK because those hands would almost certainly bet this flop. Thus, they have hands like AK AQ KQ, suited connectors, or 22-99. he could bet here, but 99 just got there, JT and 76 will call, some flush draws will call, 33 and 88 still have him destroyed, and gutshots will get out of there. all in all, if he bets and gets raised, he cant reraise because better hands will destroy him and worse hands will fold out (lets face it, someone with 98 isnt a retard and knows he could easily have an overpair). so he decides to check again cause he doesnt want to be blown off the hand or be put in an awkward situation now, theres a bet and a call, and theres no real point to raising now so he calls.

then he checks the river hoping to show it down cheaply, and theres heavy action indicating someone has a set or a straight or both, and he folds.

Submitted by : thorladen

***** Hand History for Game 5318603327 *****
0/0 Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) - Thu Oct 05 16:01:58 EDT 2006
Table Table 124343 (No DP) (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: crazy_trader ( $11024)
Seat 2: binda ( $11626.16)
Seat 3: Smaragd55 ( $1200)
Seat 4: rumpelstilzkin ( $1533)
Seat 5: thenewguy23 ( $4098.25)
Seat 6: SemiSuited ( $3665)
Seat 7: ReadMyAvatar ( $5261)
Seat 8: half_asleep ( $4950)
Seat 9: kineticpop ( $8654.11)
Seat 10: thorladen ( $4950)
ReadMyAvatar posts small blind (25)
half_asleep posts big blind (50)

Holecards
Dealt to thorladen
kineticpop folds.
thorladen raises (200) to 200
crazy_trader calls (200)
binda folds.
Smaragd55 folds.
rumpelstilzkin folds.
thenewguy23 folds.
ReadMyAvatar folds.
half_asleep calls (150)
** Dealing Flop ** : [,, ]
half_asleep checks.
thorladen bets (348.41)
crazy_trader calls (348.41)
half_asleep folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ ]
thorladen checks.
crazy_trader bets (800)
thorladen raises (2533.86) to 2533.86
crazy_trader raises (3467.72) to 4267.72
thorladen raises (1867.73) to 4401.59
thorladen is all-In.
crazy_trader calls (133.87)
** Dealing River ** : [ ]
Creating Main Pot with $10122 with thorladen
** Summary **
Main Pot: $10122 | | Rake: $3
Board: [ ]

crazy_trader balance $6074, lost $4950 [ a pair of queens -- ]
binda balance $11626.16, didn't bet (folded)
Smaragd55 balance $1200, didn't bet (folded)
rumpelstilzkin balance $1533, didn't bet (folded)
thenewguy23 balance $4098.25, didn't bet (folded)
SemiSuited balance $3665, sits out
ReadMyAvatar balance $5236, lost $25 (folded)
half_asleep balance $5000, lost $200 (folded)
kineticpop balance $8654.11, didn't bet (folded)
thorladen balance $10122, bet $4950, collected $10122, net +$5172 [ a pair of aces -- ]

On October 05 2006 13:19 BigBalls wrote: Ok, heres my take. this is a really safe board for AA. there are no draws, so people are drawing to 2 outs or something runner runner, or they have us drawing to 2 outs. so he checks the flop for pot control cause if he builds a huge pot out of position against presumably good players, it will be really tough to lay down AA unless there is ridiculous action later on such a safe board. so the flop check is more for pot control, seeing as how thor and one of the players both have 8k+ on the table. when its checked through, thor can reasonably assume that nobody has TT-KK because those hands would almost certainly bet this flop. Thus, they have hands like AK AQ KQ, suited connectors, or 22-99. he could bet here, but 99 just got there, JT and 76 will call, some flush draws will call, 33 and 88 still have him destroyed, and gutshots will get out of there. all in all, if he bets and gets raised, he cant reraise because better hands will destroy him and worse hands will fold out (lets face it, someone with 98 isnt a retard and knows he could easily have an overpair). so he decides to check again cause he doesnt want to be blown off the hand or be put in an awkward situation now, theres a bet and a call, and theres no real point to raising now so he calls. then he checks the river hoping to show it down cheaply, and theres heavy action indicating someone has a set or a straight or both, and he folds.

very nice bigballs thats pretty much what i was thinking too, but i think my thoughts only covered your first paragraph. the rest of it was a really good read. id really like to hear what thor has to say himself tho...

what a sick read; it seems what big balls said made sense
amazing how much thought was put into each street

the hand that PU posted...this other guy really SUCKS...calls 4 bets w/ QJ?! i dont get it how can people at 5k NL play like this....

i will post on differences of hands when i hve time

but first would like to see others thts on the hands and why such different actions are possible

of course just might be i have hole card software

note that if 2 people with 3k stacks called him im fairly certain thor is betting here and going broke no matter what. the fact that him and another player are deepstacked changes the whole mindset of the hand. i will often check a flop like this with AA oop against another bigstack, but to check the turn after the flop is checked through takes extreme discipline and great instincts. it makes perfect sense when you think about it, but on the fly saying to yourself im gonna check that turn im not afraid of gving another card plus i still have an icky feeling about it is very intelligent.

2nd hand is obviously different...flop texture is very drawy and turn is a blank and villain could read us for many things...but still to commit all his chips w/ QJ like this still doesnt make any sense to me.

Very well said but not really worried about 99 either. If the big stack had folded to the 450 I would have gone after the pot on the turn but his call has to set of alarms.

On October 05 2006 13:19 BigBalls wrote: Ok, heres my take. this is a really safe board for AA. there are no draws, so people are drawing to 2 outs or something runner runner, or they have us drawing to 2 outs. so he checks the flop for pot control cause if he builds a huge pot out of position against presumably good players, it will be really tough to lay down AA unless there is ridiculous action later on such a safe board. so the flop check is more for pot control, seeing as how thor and one of the players both have 8k+ on the table. when its checked through, thor can reasonably assume that nobody has TT-KK because those hands would almost certainly bet this flop. Thus, they have hands like AK AQ KQ, suited connectors, or 22-99. he could bet here, but 99 just got there, JT and 76 will call, some flush draws will call, 33 and 88 still have him destroyed, and gutshots will get out of there. all in all, if he bets and gets raised, he cant reraise because better hands will destroy him and worse hands will fold out (lets face it, someone with 98 isnt a retard and knows he could easily have an overpair). so he decides to check again cause he doesnt want to be blown off the hand or be put in an awkward situation now, theres a bet and a call, and theres no real point to raising now so he calls. then he checks the river hoping to show it down cheaply, and theres heavy action indicating someone has a set or a straight or both, and he folds.