Question on AK flop play

Submitted by : anon

***** Hand History for Game 3314814890 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, January 04, 17:04:17 ET 2006
Table Table 65291 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 10: bagdonas222 ( $25.90 )
Seat 8: issoeasy_com ( $13.90 )
Seat 5: millionhandz ( $28.30 )
Seat 7: Regor72 ( $30.15 )
Seat 3: SILVERFOX381 ( $31.85 )
Seat 9: pitbullra ( $21.60 )
Seat 4: searzy ( $24.60 )
Seat 2: Ryan_Camp ( $4.65 )
Seat 1: Joeiik ( $25 )
Seat 6: dzmanAA ( $9.75 )
bagdonas222 posts small blind [$0.10].
>You have options at Beginners #1065474 Table!.
Joeiik posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to bagdonas222 [ ]
>You have options at Beginners #1065768 Table!.
Ryan_Camp folds.
SILVERFOX381 folds.
>You have options at Beginners #1065881 Table!.
searzy folds.
millionhandz folds.
dzmanAA folds.
Regor72 calls [$0.25].
issoeasy_com folds.
pitbullra calls [$0.25].
>You have options at Beginners #1065474 Table!.
bagdonas222 raises [$0.65].
>You have options at Beginners #1065881 Table!.
Joeiik folds.
Regor72 calls [$0.50].
pitbullra folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [,, ]
>You have options at Beginners #1065474 Table!.
bagdonas222 bets [$1].
Regor72 calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
bagdonas222 bets [$2].
Regor72 calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ ]
>You have options at Beginners #1074147 Table!.
bagdonas222 bets [$5].
>You have options at Beginners #1074142 Table!.
>You have options at Beginners #1065474 Table!.
Regor72 folds.
bagdonas222 does not show cards.
bagdonas222 wins $12.60
>You have options at Beginners #1074142 Table!.

so ok when AK doesn't hit anything on flop how should i play? Usually i still bet or just check. But Check makes obvious that i have nothing but on the other hand i don't like playing agressivly when i have nothing. So how should i play AK?

Against a lone opponent, continuation bet is often good, not exactly sure if that's true for limit this low...

A continuation bet of something like uh, half the pot to the pot size, depending on how much do you think you can get him to fold with is often okay. The thing is that many players will call a random bet at the flop and fold to turn bet (bigger one naturally), just to see whether you're trying to steal off the pot or not. Your job here is to find the players who only call with a hand and those who want you to shoot the second barrel.

In this hand, he has called you twice, your big river bet probably made him fold a better hand, such as a pair, but generally I don't think bluffing the third time at a pot after been called twice is good unless you have him on busted draw, which in this hand isn't too obvious, considering the flop. Maybe he had something like A9, you might never know but I wouldn't think that's too probable.

I dislike playing this a bit OOP, but in the other hand, it does give you the opportunity to shoot at the pot. If you were on position, you could safely check the pot and not risking anything, in case he does have a hand. For all you know, his calls could be a slowplayed set or something. Also on flop, if you're on position, you can sometimes check and hope to hit your outs, especially if you've flopped something like a gutshot with overcards (ie. you have a draw but not particularly probable one). When your opponents sees you showing weakness on flop and you in fact DO hit on turn, he's very probably going to bet at ya, trying to steal the pot and you can then decide new course of action. This way you don't risk any money in him sandbagging you and you can in fact make a great profit when you do hit.

Duh, I hope that helped.

hum.. so basically it depends on the situation how to play, well anyway it's hard for me to make good decisions when i don't hit the pair

u have to convince him you have AA so bet strong on each turn and every time more money

OOP it depends a lot on your opponent. Sometimes a two-bet continuation on the flop and turn is extremely successful against certain people. Some people will never ever fold after they call on the flop. Checking the flop doesn't always indicate weakness when you were the preflop raiser--unless you never check-raise. But you should do this often enough.

In this particular case, those turn and river cards should be scare cards for you, because the only drawing hands are straight draws, and that's how he's playing it, and the 8 and 4 complete some straights.

Gotta use your read here though. If you read him for some pocket pair or overcards, then you played it just right. If you know he'll call raises with any random trash (e.g. he's very loose), then he's more likely to have a drawing hand here and I suggest checking it down after the flop CB doesn't work. If the 8 was a J or something though, you might fire another bullet, since that's less scary.

In addition to what I said, like Myth said, it's extremely successful against certain people, the thing is you have to pick the people. It doesn't work against everyone. HOWEVER when you do check the turn, and he checks right after you. If you DO hit the river, he will probably call you down if he has anything at all, since you showed weakness on turn (as did he by checking after you), so this is a good place to value bet but not to steal anymore.

But yea it depends on the reads you have very much. This was fine here but you have to be able to get your opponent on a hand range before you can start making decisions. If he just has two overs, you're ahead. If he has overpair, he's probably not going to fold, especially on these limits. If he has a pair - top pair or worse - can he fold it? So consider your opponent when you're making such moves. This is definitely -EV if you do it every time, but definitely +EV if you can use it to the maximum extent. I would probably check the river in most cases if the hand went down this way.

Noticing the players who call and fold to second bet are pretty easy to spot since you can a) see them in hands other people play b) do it once yourself and hope to get a showdown to see what they were playing (better to do this in position).

Checking the river usually has other merit too, many fishes at these limits bet ridiculously small amounts for value. So by checking, you might get a showdown for like $1 or so instead of having to pay $5 when you in fact wasn't ahead.

sandralShot, I don't think it's only AA you're trying to represent but any overpair, maybe set or TPTK, whatever makes you happy. If he has called you twice, that'd often mean he can beat your overpair (or he has a pair [drawing to second pair] or a draw).

So be careful, especially when betting so huge on river. Never do this without a read. But when you do have the read, trust it. And don't hold back. And don't fall into trap of "hoping your opponent has XX". Know or don't know. If you know, you know how to play and do what is necessary.

Sometimes it still goes to hell. I've had very good reads, knowing my opponents were on (for example) second or low pair. And I've made bets to represent a bigger hand and still got called down. After this happens once, you can usually get value from these players by betting your real hands too.

ALSO, at least at NL50, should you check the turn and fold to bet by your opponent, next time you have a hand, you can go for the same play since they'll probably bet again. Another positive side that comes from this is that after folding once after checking, your bet on turn gains more respect as last time you check/folded. Of course not all opponents are this observant and it's not as easy to use these little tricks, but they work to ridiculous extents when you pick your spots right.

I think I'll write a book.

On January 04 2006 16:48 Muhweli wrote: I think I'll write a book.

Why

On January 04 2006 16:59 sandraIShot wrote: Show nested quote + On January 04 2006 16:48 Muhweli wrote: I think I'll write a book. Why

Why do people write books.

I would never bet the river there. A four card straight on the board, youre opponent has no reason to put you on a five since youre a preflop raiser and he has called two decent size bets. He MUST have something.
The reason the bet is bad is that if you in fact did have Aces you would most likely check. Why bet overpair for value on such a board.

I'd probably try to steal the pot with a bet on the flop against a lone oppoent (if its more then one give it up right away) and if he calls well, my experience with the player will determine the action on the turn along with what card falls. Also if he is a complete calling station I wouldnt even try to steal on the flop.