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thestoryteller   Singapore. Mar 30 2008 09:36. Posts 319

I just made the transition to 10NL and find a lot more people calling my cbets. I don't know if they're drawing or they actually have something silly like bottom pair. I'd like to be more aggressive at NL10 and punish people who call cbets with draws or stuff that I can beat when I have position. No hand history on either villain - I was new at the tables.

Submitted by : thestoryteller

POKERSTARS GAME #16358258061: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.05/$0.10) - 2008/03/30 - 09:18:00 (ET)
Table 'Ilioneus IV' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: elliaz ($5.65 in chips)
Seat 2: memoris mori ($7.05 in chips)
Seat 4: Schmott68 ($5.35 in chips)
Seat 5: grandpoisson ($3.55 in chips)
Seat 6: Suleika81 ($1.65 in chips)
Seat 7: Alex Reborn ($10 in chips)
Seat 8: LijpeWijp ($4.95 in chips)
Seat 9: Karen668 ($10.05 in chips)
memoris mori: posts small blind $0.05
Schmott68: posts big blind $0.10

Holecards
Dealt to Karen668 9c9s
grandpoisson: raises $0.30 to $0.40
Suleika81: folds
Alex Reborn: folds
LijpeWijp: calls $0.40
Karen668 : calls $0.40
elliaz: folds
memoris mori: folds
Schmott68: folds

Flop (Pot : $1.35)

   8c7d2h
grandpoisson: bets $0.60
LijpeWijp: raises $0.60 to $1.20
Karen668 : raises $0.60 to $1.80
grandpoisson: folds
LijpeWijp: calls $0.60

Turn (Pot : $5.55)

   8c7d2hTd
LijpeWijp: checks
Karen668 : bets $7.85 and is all-in
LijpeWijp: folds
Karen668 collected $5.30 from pot

Summary
Total pot $5.55 | Rake $0.25
Board  8c7d2hTd
Seat 1: elliaz (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: memoris mori (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Schmott68 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: grandpoisson folded on the Flop
Seat 6: Suleika81 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Alex Reborn folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: LijpeWijp folded on the Turn
Seat 9: Karen668 collected ($5.30)



At NL5 I would have just called the flop and then checked the turn because I no longer had an overpair, but so often it gets checked down and villain has nothing or a lower pp... and at NL10 I find some bet on the river and try to take the pot down. Did I do the right thing here? What if I didn't have an open ended straight draw on the turn as well? I wouldn't have shoved if villain was deeper stacked but he was so short stacked that any reasonable bet would have put him all in. Should I have shoved the flop or just called the min raise?

Submitted by : thestoryteller

POKERSTARS GAME #16358271379: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.05/$0.10) - 2008/03/30 - 09:18:57 (ET)
Table 'Orchis' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: AcedePique ($10.80 in chips)
Seat 2: geeno z ($1.85 in chips)
Seat 3: blehjay ($2.55 in chips)
Seat 5: DarkAzza ($11.10 in chips)
Seat 6: astrodaan ($9.60 in chips)
Seat 7: Karen668 ($9.85 in chips)
Seat 8: BSUpokerFOOL ($5.20 in chips)
Seat 9: give_hard ($6 in chips)
BSUpokerFOOL: posts small blind $0.05
give_hard: posts big blind $0.10
Dream Quiet: sits out

Holecards
Dealt to Karen668 Ah6h
AcedePique: folds
geeno z: folds
blehjay: calls $0.10
DarkAzza: calls $0.10
astrodaan: folds
Karen668 : raises $0.40 to $0.50
BSUpokerFOOL: folds
give_hard: folds
blehjay: folds
DarkAzza: calls $0.40

Flop (Pot : $1.25)

   3hAd9c
DarkAzza: bets $0.50
Karen668 : raises $0.50 to $1
DarkAzza: calls $0.50

Turn (Pot : $3.25)

   3hAd9c5d
DarkAzza: checks
Karen668 : bets $2
DarkAzza: folds
Karen668 collected $3.10 from pot
Karen668 : doesn't show hand

Summary
Total pot $3.25 | Rake $0.15
Board  3hAd9c5d
Seat 1: AcedePique folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: geeno z folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: blehjay folded before Flop
Seat 5: DarkAzza folded on the Turn
Seat 6: astrodaan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Karen668 (button) collected ($3.10)
Seat 8: BSUpokerFOOL (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: give_hard (big blind) folded before Flop



In this one I wasn't sure how to react to the flop bet. At NL5 I just folded to these donk bets if I didn't have top kicker. Here, if it was a good sized one like 75% of the pot I guess would have folded since I had a crappy kicker. But half pot? Should I have just flat called and bet on the turn if he checked it to me? Or raised to 1.50 on the flop? Or just folded? And it's such a dry board so I don't think he's drawing to anything...

I min raised because I wasn't sure what to do and now that I look back on the hand I think I look like some donk playing AK badly =(

Any general advice on turn bets when the hand is checked to me without the nuts would be also be appreciated. I read Myth's advice in http://www.liquidpoker.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392404 and it helps lots.

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 Last edit: 30/03/2008 09:39

collegesucks   United States. Mar 30 2008 11:53. Posts 5780

hand 1: i think it's generally a flat on the flop but i like turn as played

hand 2: raise to a decent amount like $1.75-2 with almost any two... donkleads fold about 90% of the time, no joke

 Last edit: 30/03/2008 12:56

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Mar 30 2008 14:10. Posts 9634

never ever ever ever ever min raise like this hand1 :i guess turn is nice
hand 2 raise to like 2.70-3$

and yeah raise the donk leads everytime its so +evvvvv


thestoryteller   Singapore. Mar 30 2008 21:19. Posts 319

In hand 1 I hesitated to just call the min raise because I thought the other guy might just call too. I wasn't sure if betting the turn was a good idea in a three way pot. Am I being paranoid or is flat calling the min raise okay? They were both short stacked so a decent raise would have been a flop shove. Good idea?


X kesh   Greece. Mar 31 2008 01:36. Posts 344

Hand 1)
I dont like anything about this hand.
Wtf is that minraise?
You are playing against two shortstacks.The first one leads horribly flop oop & the second one minraises oop in a 3 way pot.
You have the position,you have the overpair and you are full stacked.
Raise his minraise to 5 dollars.In this way you are pushing them both to an all in situation,making clear that you have a good hand and that if someone wants to gamble he will have to gamble all his money for his draw.

Hand 2)
Remember that the reason to raise from the button with any two holecards is just to mix up yr play,fixing yr preraising image at the table.
So you have two oop limpers which you want to punish them for limping.So you have to raise 4x big blindz + 1 blind for every limper.
So you have to raise ttl 0.6 instead of 0.5.
And you have a caller.Flop appears and the villain lead pot sooooooo weak.He is betting less than the pot size.
What exactly villains play tells you?
He limped/called oop pre flop and lead weak flop---->80% of the time small pocket pair which misted flop.
Raise the shit out of him and make it around 2,5-3 dollars.
If you get reraised fold asap,if you get called shut down turn and evaluate yr position at river cause villain is going to check turn for sure,giving you an extra free card.

You min raised again!
Dont do it.
The reason that you won second hand is cause villain is retarded.

2 things about pot...win it and smoke it 

X kesh   Greece. Mar 31 2008 01:40. Posts 344

.He is betting less than the pot size.

I mean he is betting less than the half of the pot size.

Sorry

2 things about pot...win it and smoke it 

X kesh   Greece. Mar 31 2008 02:05. Posts 344

And don't misread Myth's advice.
You were playing these hands in that way because you had no idea of what to do.
Not having a cunning plan to extract maximum value,as Myth's advice indicates.

2 things about pot...win it and smoke it 

thestoryteller   Singapore. Mar 31 2008 02:09. Posts 319


  On March 31 2008 00:36 kesh wrote:
Hand 1)
I dont like anything about this hand.
Wtf is that minraise?
You are playing against two shortstacks.The first one leads horribly flop oop & the second one minraises oop in a 3 way pot.
You have the position,you have the overpair and you are full stacked.
Raise his minraise to 5 dollars.In this way you are pushing them both to an all in situation,making clear that you have a good hand and that if someone wants to gamble he will have to gamble all his money for his draw.

Hand 2)
Remember that the reason to raise from the button with any two holecards is just to mix up yr play,fixing yr preraising image at the table.
So you have two oop limpers which you want to punish them for limping.So you have to raise 4x big blindz + 1 blind for every limper.
So you have to raise ttl 0.6 instead of 0.5.
And you have a caller.Flop appears and the villain lead pot sooooooo weak.He is betting less than the pot size.
What exactly villains play tells you?
He limped/called oop pre flop and lead weak flop---->80% of the time small pocket pair which misted flop.
Raise the shit out of him and make it around 2,5-3 dollars.
If you get reraised fold asap,if you get called shut down turn and evaluate yr position at river cause villain is going to check turn for sure,giving you an extra free card.

You min raised again!
Dont do it.
The reason that you won second hand is cause villain is retarded.



Very helpful! Thanks!

And no....... I played these hands before I read myth's post. I would be ashamed to play these hands after I read his post.


 



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