UB Scandal part 2 Phil Hellmuth - Page 3

I thought UB is still rigged. And I thought it might have involved more than seeing cards. Guess I might have been right on both.. ;p

Programmers in 2+2 have already explained how this can happen, especially since the software is new and not bug free.

Not the first time something like this has happened either. It's apparently happened on several sites when implementing new games/software.

On December 21 2008 21:37 asdf2000 wrote: Show nested quote + On December 21 2008 20:35 Bigbobm wrote:   On December 21 2008 20:29 asdf2000 wrote: so i didn't want to read a 50 page 2+2 thread in what way was it shown that phil is cheating? he had the losing hand and still won the pot then the software tried to keep the guy off the table, and phil tried to downplay the hand like nothing happened ok, but how is it that this shows that PHIL is cheating. it just shows that the site is fucked up (which is scary in itself). you would have to be literally mentally retarded to try to get away with cheating that way....

it says so in the law of common sense

On December 21 2008 21:59 FrEaK[S.sIR] wrote: Programmers in 2+2 have already explained how this can happen, especially since the software is new and not bug free. Not the first time something like this has happened either. It's apparently happened on several sites when implementing new games/software.

The one in a million bug happens on PH's table with him as the winner, what are the odds?

aslo he has been bragging about winning 10 days straight with his shitty play, and when he was confronted with the error he wasn't shocked or anything, he just shrugged it off. Not to mention the way he played T2

On December 21 2008 22:03 Nazgul wrote: Show nested quote + On December 21 2008 21:37 asdf2000 wrote:   On December 21 2008 20:35 Bigbobm wrote:   On December 21 2008 20:29 asdf2000 wrote: so i didn't want to read a 50 page 2+2 thread in what way was it shown that phil is cheating? he had the losing hand and still won the pot then the software tried to keep the guy off the table, and phil tried to downplay the hand like nothing happened ok, but how is it that this shows that PHIL is cheating. it just shows that the site is fucked up (which is scary in itself). you would have to be literally mentally retarded to try to get away with cheating that way.... it says so in the law of common sense

ok ur right lol i can't actually think of a reason that would happen that doesn't involve phil cheating
but it still seems feasable to me. anyways im curious what exactly was going on now

and you would have to be literally mentally retarded to use a superuser account so obviously like nionio and the other crooks did...

Read the 2+2 thread if you really want to know. There are a couple posts on page 2(mine is filtered to 100 posts per page) with programmers explaining possible scenarios. It has to do with how the software assigns values to hand strength and sloppy programming having certain hands assigned a value of 0. Then lists a couple reasons why a hand might get assigned the value of 0. If hand strengths are assigned in descending order, that'd cause whatever hand got assigned 0 to win.


More detail in the 2+2 thread, I don't feel like digging for it.


And who said it's a one in a million bug? As far as I've heard it's fairly common when implementing hi lo games and sometimes on newer softwares due to sloppy programming and not enough testing. It just happens to be more public because 1) it happened on UB and 2) it happened to PH.

I'm not discounting that it's a scandal. I don't play on UB and I never intend to. I'm just saying that immediately assuming that PH is trying to cheat people out of $5600 pots while being worth at least 8 figures seems rather silly. It's even more blatant than the last cheating scandal. As if people aren't going to notice pots getting shipped the wrong way?

I have little faith in people's intelligence but I don't believe that this is cheating. You'd have to be really, really stupid to think you're going to get away with it. They already refunded the guy's money. Not like they're denying anything happened. I just tihnk it's more likely a bug in the new software than the most blatant act of cheating in poker.

I mean really, it doesn't get worse than showing down the worst hand and trying to reach over the table and scoop the pot yourself. Pretty sure you'd get a "what the fuck do you think you're doing?"

On December 21 2008 22:21 TenBagger wrote: and you would have to be literally mentally retarded to use a superuser account so obviously like nionio and the other crooks did...

You can't see how using a superuser in a blatant fashion and shipping the pot to the wrong player are on completely different levels? At least as far as how stupid you'd have to be to try to get away with it.

I mean, we needed a TON of evidence for the superuser thing to go anywhere. With this you'd just need to be like "uh...yeah, the pot went to the wrong person? WTF is wrong with you?"

Its still does not make sense it happens to PH, out of the 20.000+ users and millions of hands played on that site, no fucking way!

"This is the first incident of this kind we have encountered. We are currently examining the poker system and the application logs in order to pinpoint the cause of this malfunction." -Paul Leggett

On December 21 2008 22:34 Zorglub wrote: Its still does not make sense it happens to PH, out of the 20.000 users and millions of hands played on that site, no fucking way!

So many stars have to align for this to occur. People need to stop even trying to defend those crooks. They have a long history of cheating. Maybe if it happened on pokerstars we'd give the benefit of the doubt but not UB.

Maybe their super user account is sloppily programmed and bugs happen to it...

Seriously fuck this piece of shit site.

As if people aren't going to notice pots getting shipped the wrong way?

You can't see how using a superuser in a blatant fashion and shipping the pot to the wrong player are on completely different levels? At least as far as how stupid you'd have to be to try to get away with it. I mean, we needed a TON of evidence for the superuser thing to go anywhere. With this you'd just need to be like "uh...yeah, the pot went to the wrong person? WTF is wrong with you?"

The argument against that is obviously that the bug is not in hand strength, but the bug being in the superuser cheat. It seems silly to argue a software bug and not acknowledging the possibility of a bug existing in a cheat. They are equally likely.

Both bugs being possible, question remains do you give UB who magically ships a pot to their owner and has been known for superuser accounts the benefit of the doubt.

maybe it is their fault.. it probably is.
all we are saying I think is innocent until proven guilty

On December 21 2008 22:41 asdf2000 wrote: maybe it is their fault.. it probably is. all we are saying I think is innocent until proven guilty

They have been proven guilty before. Fuck them. Nothing even happened to them for the superuser incident.

The odds are stacked against them and I'm not going with the underdog on this one. Besides, if it's a genuine mistake they are obviously incompetent as hell and shouldn't be running a poker room no matter what. And "innocent till proven guilty" let's say a guy murdered his wife and was proven guilty but is released due to a mistake in the system. 6 months later he is found with a bloody knife and a dead child. Yeah, who knows maybe he is innocent.

On December 21 2008 22:40 Nazgul wrote: Show nested quote + As if people aren't going to notice pots getting shipped the wrong way?   You can't see how using a superuser in a blatant fashion and shipping the pot to the wrong player are on completely different levels? At least as far as how stupid you'd have to be to try to get away with it. I mean, we needed a TON of evidence for the superuser thing to go anywhere. With this you'd just need to be like "uh...yeah, the pot went to the wrong person? WTF is wrong with you?" The argument against that is obviously that the bug is not in hand strength, but the bug being in the superuser cheat. It seems silly to argue a software bug and not acknowledging the possibility of a bug existing in a cheat. They are equally likely. Both bugs being possible, question remains do you give UB who magically ships a pot to their owner and has been known for superuser accounts the benefit of the doubt.

The fact that people are doing this ANGERS me. Fucking morons, seriously.......

well mainly I was speaking of phil hellmuth. it was never shown that he cheated was it?

and im not disagreeing with u lol, fuck them

On December 21 2008 22:45 Maynard! wrote: The fact that people are doing this ANGERS me. Fucking morons, seriously.......

yo fatty take a chill pill

On December 21 2008 22:43 Nazgul wrote: Show nested quote + On December 21 2008 22:41 asdf2000 wrote: maybe it is their fault.. it probably is. all we are saying I think is innocent until proven guilty They have been proven guilty before. Fuck them. Nothing even happened to them for the superuser incident. The odds are stacked against them and I'm not going with the underdog on this one. Besides, if it's a genuine mistake they are obviously incompetent as hell and shouldn't be running a poker room no matter what. And "innocent till proven guilty" let's say a guy murdered his wife and was proven guilty but is released due to a mistake in the system. 6 months later he is found with a bloody knife and a dead child. Yeah, who knows maybe he is innocent.

what are u saying? ur actually against "innocent until proven guilty"? the situation you described has entirely different repercussions.. I don't think they should be compared. taking money is not like taking a life..

what are u saying? ur actually against "innocent until proven guilty"? the situation you described has entirely different repercussions.. I don't think they should be compared. taking money is not like taking a life..

Something like won't be ever be proven unless someone comes clean.

[B]On December 21 2008 22:46 Nazgul wrote: yo fatty take a chill pill

Fuck off loser.

seriously anybody who think this was a normal bug is absolutely retarded for the next reasons:

1.- Millions of hands are being played on the site, and it happens to the owner of the site, and in his favour.
2.- Phil doesnt react in a shocked surprised way, more in a dodging/avoiding manner, which is weird.
3.- UltimateBet Phill Hellmuth were involved in the biggest cheating scandal in online poker's history not long ago.



This was probably a bug (or human mistake) WHILE CHEATING, the way Phil played that T2s makes no sense at all, common sense says that he somehow can change his holecards but the client either bugger or phil fucked up.

Well actually after thinking a little it would make sense:

A - Nobody would ever play T2s this way in LHE, i mean wtf is this call on the river ? Did he seriously think T hi was winning here even if he gets 10:1 ? Did he called to get informations ? the hand itself doesnt make any sense at all.

B - What are the odds for the software having a glitch when its Hellmuth playing ? And more than that, favoring him ?

C - Why would Hellmuth keep representing UB after the superuser scandal ? It means this guy doesn't care mucho customers got screwed in the first place and a lot of 2+2er pointed that he might have profited from it (nionio superuser account).

D - He didn't seem shocked when the pot has been dragged to him and lacked reactions.

UB's range is so polarized here, it's either a complete random incident OR these guys are sick cheating bastards and their software is rigged as fuck imo

Edit: lol the time i write this Baal said the same things