NL100 turned bottom set

Villian is a 17/14/4 nit but has check/raised my cbet from 8 to 20 and folded to a shove 2 times as well. At this point I see him having a better set a whole lot of the time, JJ isn't in his range because he would 3bet this. For a 165bb with bottom set on this board what's our best action here?

Submitted by : gororokgororok

.PokerStars Game #25841407978: Holdem No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2009/03/11 14:25:13 CET [2009/03/11 9:25:13 ET]
Table Hippo 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: martinpan ($14.45 in chips)
Seat 2: Don_TuCCE ($355.65 in chips)
Seat 3: earlybird007 ($48.20 in chips)
Seat 4: gororok ($165.20 in chips)
Seat 5: Blayhck ($114.05 in chips)
Seat 6: totti18n ($111.50 in chips)
Don_TuCCE: posts small blind $0.50
earlybird007 is disconnected
earlybird007 is connected
earlybird007: posts big blind $1

Holecards
Dealt to gororok
gororok: raises $2 to $3
Blayhck: calls $3
totti18n: folds
martinpan: folds
Don_TuCCE: calls $2.50
earlybird007: folds

Flop (Pot : $10.00)

   
Don_TuCCE: checks
gororok: checks
Blayhck: checks

Turn (Pot : $10.00)

   
Don_TuCCE: bets $7
gororok: raises $14 to $21
Blayhck: folds
Don_TuCCE: raises $29 to $50

ur line makes 0 sense and if hes smart enough to realize that and do something about it you can never fold.

I think "check/raised my cbet from 8 to 20 and folded to a shove 2 times" is very important. Granted he has a overset here a lot, but I've personally seen him get a bit feisty on several occasions so I think he is capable of making this move as a bluff or with a combo draw. Throw in the possibilty of J8 or 86 and I don't think you can find a fold here.

i probably have a skewed view from too much HU play, but I'll think for a bit and flat, and get it in on most rivers.

id call and c/c any river

On March 11 2009 14:46 TimDawg wrote: id call and c/c any river

I'm in position.

ok then call and call any river or shove if checked to

fwiw i dont generally give people at NL100 enough credit for hand-reading to get it in based on northface's justification. also I think there is an important difference between people c/ring flop cbets and bet/3betting the turn in a spot like this. I just dont think enough of his range is combo draws/pair + draw/pure bluff for anything except a turn fold to be profitable.

but I may be biased since I have seen results

only reason this is ever close is cuz its 100nl and therefore player dependent...200nl and higher this is a super easy ship...i guess with him being a nit call and reeval river but probably getting it in on most every river....i like timdawgs line cuz hes a 100nl nit but like northface for any higher stakes i this situtation occurs

On March 11 2009 08:54 n0rthf4ce wrote: ur line makes 0 sense and if hes smart enough to realize that and do something about it you can never fold.

overthinking 100nl imo, u have set, put the money in, profit.

agree with LilDeano89 but it feels really gay to fold here. probably call and call river (and if he checks its an easy vbet)

if you can add hands like j8s/68s in his range, then it's definitely a call. but i guess only you can answer that, how many hands does he coldcalls with in SB like this?

but i guess if he is that nitty, this is gonna be 66/88 so often, because even tough your line makes no sense, that is not something people pick up easily at these stakes (esp. not a nitty player like this), and i also doubt he will repop with good draws. so taking out some two pair combos your hand is pretty shitty against his range and a this become foldable.

baal no offence but i would like to know the last time you actually played NL100 on stars. We are not talking about a hand vs a fish, in which of course this is an easy ship. the villain here plays a tag/nit game and 99% of tags/nits at these stakes just simply aren't aggressive enough to be bluffing/semi-bluffing right here. There are no value hands in his range which we are ahead of (imo, including J8/86) and imho semi-bluffs/pure bluffs are almost non-existant right here. It might sound strange to a midstakes player like yourself, but listening to advice like yours from midstakes players who give advice which is completely correct for the stakes they play in but not so for the nl50/nl100 games (ie you have a set, never fold), can (imo) seriously delay the moving-up process of SSNL players.

On March 11 2009 08:54 n0rthf4ce wrote: ur line makes 0 sense and if hes smart enough to realize that and do something about it you can never fold.

This BUT

It's NL100, and ironically is probably the nittiest limit on Stars period. So folding is probably correct, no joke.

the only hands ahead of u are over sets....

honestly? an overset?

fwiw i dont generally give people at NL100 enough credit for hand-reading to get it in based on northface's justification. also I think there is an important difference between people c/ring flop cbets and bet/3betting the turn in a spot like this. I just dont think enough of his range is combo draws/pair + draw/pure bluff for anything except a turn fold to be profitable.

I've actually noticed that at nl100 many regulars who appear nitty and play abc suddenly get really spazzy if you do something aggressive with a line that makes no sense at all. Been a great surprise to me. Or at least some partypoker nl100 regs do, maybe they have different culture at stars

And imo it makes a huge difference that we have 3bet all in on flop vs him twice

auffen who are you on party?

From "The adventures of Sherlock Holmes", by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, a solid expample of the force of deduction:

Some weeks after solving the case of red haired man Sherlock and Watson were enjoying a well deserved moment of rest at Baker Street, when suddenly - after a long period of silence - Sherlock said:
"Watson, do you see this poster at liquidpoker?"
Watson looked at the laptops screen over Sherlocks shoulder and replied:
"Yeah, I've seen him post before, why?"
"Well, I can tell you that his account on partypoker is allin72o."
"Oh my Sherlock, how on earth is that possible? Goes way over me."
"Elementary, my dear Watson: I just clicked the "Hands" icon on the right of the guys name, and check which screenname he was using on his hands".

So thats just how Sherlock Holmes solved a problem similiar to yours. My screenname is allin72o