NL200 facing cold 4bet

Got 2 hands here, the first one is with the 4bet and the second one is a 3bet pot vs a semi-short stacked fish that I think was standard but could use an objective eye on.

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i think these are both pretty bad - shove or fold in hand 1 if he cold 4b bluffs which is looks like he might then you should shove. if he doesnt then you should fold

hand 2 dont 3b short stacks light, and if you have a read that he just raise folds pre a ton (which seems to not be the case) you dont need to 3b so big. as played you probably cant fold now

I fold hand 1 pre.
And i never 3bet shortstacks light.

On November 16 2009 17:23 PoorUser wrote: i think these are both pretty bad - shove or fold in hand 1 if he cold 4b bluffs which is looks like he might then you should shove. if he doesnt then you should fold

Ok thanks, that was my feeling too after I played the hand.

hand 2 dont 3b short stacks light, and if you have a read that he just raise folds pre a ton (which seems to not be the case) you dont need to 3b so big. as played you probably cant fold now

So big? what would you make it? $8? He had was folding to 3bets a lot so that's what inspired me. Agreed that light 3betting vs shorties is not ideal. If I can't fold now, is CRAI the right way to deal with it?

On November 16 2009 17:34 Nadeem wrote: I fold hand 1 pre. And i never 3bet shortstacks light.

Well there are SSs you should just shove on really light (like the 28/28 30bb motherfuckers with like 3058096% steal), but a 40bb stacker is kind of a mehhhhhh spot.

I'd rather call if he's really bad I think ;o

And as played I'd just call so he can continue his bluff if he's bluffing.

JJ hand meh. If it was later pos I guess stick it in but mostly I think just fold is gonna save you a bunch of variance.

first hand seems like a fairly easy fold, 2nd just don't c/f or c/r, all other options seems at least semi-ok.

Yeah I feel like I was on minor tilt in hand #1 cause I think that's normally a fold for me but my brain started trying to think of reasons to get it in.

Dusty, for hand #2 you're saying check/call or cbet are best then? And that they're about equal?

Not sure, but basically I feel that we're ahead of his range but it might be hard to get value (depending on the opponent). It's clear that we can't fold and and a c/r would just be superweird and I don't think it'd be good since we're turning our hand into a bluff (or at least something like that, I guess he might've worse 8s that he could bet/call but that's fairly rare). The other options at least doesn't have inherent flaws in their logic and might be good or bad depending on the villian.

hand 2 i think is fine, if we 3bet then we're def getting it in on this flop vs this player

i like c/rai because we do get called by worse (at heart it is a value shove)

i don't like hand 1 at all though, i think this is definitely a standard fold, even if we think that the cold 4-bettor is light (which I think is really rare atm), the 3bettor or even original raiser could be strong [some gap-concept can be applied here too]

not exactly sure how i would play QQ+/AK (and specifically AA) in this spot, but I think probably just jamming all of them, lots of dead money

He has to be 4b bluffing with really horrid frequencies to make you not snap fold JJ there, plus there are 2 other guys in the hand, just fold pre you dont need to push your edges this far that you dont even know if its good and this is probably not even breakeven but a losing play.
Hand 2 I think 40bb is a bit too much to get that in pre, I dont think its rly bad but meh, I like flatting better.

Yeah I agree with all of you about hand 1, best to just fold that hand from the beginning. Thanks for the thoughts!