Great players

Poker is like life. Someone has to be the worst at it, for someone else to be the best. Normal people are somewhere in between, and most of us are convinced to be on the + side of the average.

Without that idea poker wouldnt exist.

Jungleman is basically autistic.

yeah, some people are just born with skills. just gotta practice hard and try and become the best you can be at the thing you enjoy or excell at.

Natural talents don't exist, people who are sick good at doing something just have an equally incredible work ethic. Discipline, dedication and perseverance always bear their fruits...

pokerskills comes mostly from hard work and experience ;P

obv u need to be somewhat smart/tricky/strategical as a person aswell to get good at it

On June 05 2012 05:53 Achoo wrote: Natural talents don't exist, people who are sick good at doing something just have an equally incredible work ethic. Discipline, dedication and perseverance always bear their fruits...

this is not true at all ...
you need both to be the best , natural talent and work ethic.

For poker imo the second one is the most important

On June 05 2012 05:53 Achoo wrote: Natural talents don't exist, people who are sick good at doing something just have an equally incredible work ethic. Discipline, dedication and perseverance always bear their fruits...

simply not true . . . some are blessed with superior cognitive skills, which makes the decision making process in poker much easier.

Hard work alone doesn't get the job done either, that work has to be focused in the right direction, and many, probably most, don't have the right direction.

Most players will never become "great" players no matter how much they work at it.

I dont think Jungle is implying that winning only 2 buyins = downswing. I think he's just saying set your goals lower when you're losing, and be happy if you can finish a session up only 2 buyins. After a week of modest winnings you'll feel better and your game might turn around too.

On June 05 2012 05:53 Achoo wrote: Natural talents don't exist, people who are sick good at doing something just have an equally incredible work ethic. Discipline, dedication and perseverance always bear their fruits...

Lol
Every person with half a brain knows that Talent is the thing deciding how much fruits your work ethic brings.
U can give all your best every day and still suck at things u simply have no talent for

so many neuroscientists on LP. amazing

On June 05 2012 15:52 def_jammer wrote: so many neuroscientists on LP. amazing

dont need to be a neuroscientist to figure out this stuff.

jaedongs starcraft team hwaseung oz, had a 12 hour practice schedule for everyone on the team, using the same coach and the same practice methods and sharing all the resources they had to get everyone in their best shape. How did jaedong become a better player than the others i don't know, but it seems unlikely that it was from practicing more, or more effectively.

On June 05 2012 11:10 curtinsea wrote: Show nested quote + On June 05 2012 05:53 Achoo wrote: Natural talents don't exist, people who are sick good at doing something just have an equally incredible work ethic. Discipline, dedication and perseverance always bear their fruits... simply not true . . . some are blessed with superior cognitive skills, which makes the decision making process in poker much easier. Hard work alone doesn't get the job done either, that work has to be focused in the right direction, and many, probably most, don't have the right direction. Most players will never become "great" players no matter how much they work at it.

The best predictor of performance is hours of deliberate practice. General IQ is also a good predictor. Natural talent isn't. To the extent that we can measure natural talent (for example, by looking at family), it has little predictive effect on performance after controlling for hours of deliberate practice. Usually what happens is somebody practices a lot, gets good, and is retroactively called 'talented'. Jaedong might have practiced more serious than his team mates. Just showing up is not enough. You need to be deliberately focused on improving your play for every single second.

What is deliberate practice? Deliberate practice is defined as "Activities designed, usually by a teacher, with the express purpose of improving some aspect of the student's performance"
For example, constantly thinking hard about what you're doing = deliberate practice, just playing robot mode = not deliberate practice. Having a teacher collect hand histories around one of your leaks for you to think through and build a better intuition for would be one of the most effective way to deliberately practice poker.

I wonder why people seem so insistent on the idea that some people are just 'given talent' and thereby get good at something, despite this not being supported at all by scientific evidence. Maybe it is a way to shift the blame from something inside your control "I don't put enough effort into practice" to something outside your control "I have other talents, I was just not given this talent" to feel better about sucking.

Source: Cambridge handbook of expertise and expert performance

Everyone who denies natural talent should probably check out guys like matthew savage

On June 05 2012 17:33 Stroggoz wrote: Show nested quote + On June 05 2012 15:52 def_jammer wrote: so many neuroscientists on LP. amazing dont need to be a neuroscientist to figure out this stuff. jaedongs starcraft team hwaseung oz, had a 12 hour practice schedule for everyone on the team, using the same coach and the same practice methods and sharing all the resources they had to get everyone in their best shape. How did jaedong become a better player than the others i don't know, but it seems unlikely that it was from practicing more, or more effectively.

Pro sc1 teams in Korea all had a minimum of 10-11 hour training sessions everyday, usually they would get Sunday's off, unless they were playing in multiple leagues at the same time, as well as the B-teams would sneak into the living room to watch TV when the A-teams would go to Pro League.

Jaedong, just like a few others, got good at sc1 cuz of practice, but, he was better able to pick up and understand the game. It's like anything competitive in life, some people pick things up faster than others. There's still newbie people playing the same pc game, card game, etc. after 10 years.

Part of it is not knowing how to adjust, part is not willing to adjust, and another is needing someone (coach) to guide you in the right path.

There were multiple long time pro's who I personally think that they got lazy once they got into the pro house. They knew deep down that they finally made it into the house, which meant they had some skill, and then they acquired a little bit more skill from the better players in the house, then stopped getting better once they felt comfortable winning a lot of unimportant practice games. I'm wrong about the last 3 lines of text though.

On June 05 2012 17:33 Stroggoz wrote: Show nested quote + On June 05 2012 15:52 def_jammer wrote: so many neuroscientists on LP. amazing dont need to be a neuroscientist to figure out this stuff. jaedongs starcraft team hwaseung oz, had a 12 hour practice schedule for everyone on the team, using the same coach and the same practice methods and sharing all the resources they had to get everyone in their best shape. How did jaedong become a better player than the others i don't know, but it seems unlikely that it was from practicing more, or more effectively.

Yeah but in the poker analogue each member of Hwaseung Oz is rolling in poker ₩₩₩₩₩₩