July

mods pls move this to the "Poker Unsatisfying now?" thread

lol

seriously though, I always enjoy your monthly reports

GL in August

big fan of ur play

I always find it interesting when people talk about how much they spend. It seems like it comes with being a poker player to spend more than is necessary for comfortable living. Maybe it's a way for the player to compensate for the struggle which is mostly unsatisfying? It's like you have to treat yourself otherwise you won't be able to keep going. I used to spend slightly more when I played, but never as much as the numbers most of you guys have. In my area you are extremely comfortable for under $800 a month if you live with someone. I think I spend about $700 a month and would like to cut down on that a bit myself.

I like to gratify myself in ways that are sustainable and don't feed into/depend on something I don't absolutely want in my life. Poker was like that for me; I figured it's completely self-defeating to make efforts sustaining a cycle of existence which only consists in perpetuating a mostly unsatisfying existence.

On August 01 2013 00:07 Loco wrote: I always find it interesting when people talk about how much they spend. It seems like it comes with being a poker player to spend more than is necessary for comfortable living. Maybe it's a way for the player to compensate for the struggle which is mostly unsatisfying? It's like you have to treat yourself otherwise you won't be able to keep going. I used to spend slightly more when I played, but never as much as the numbers most of you guys have. In my area you are extremely comfortable for under $800 a month if you live with someone. I think I spend about $700 a month and would like to cut down on that a bit myself. I like to gratify myself in ways that are sustainable and don't feed into/depend on something I don't absolutely want in my life. Poker was like that for me; I figured it's completely self-defeating to make efforts sustaining a cycle of existence which only consists in perpetuating a mostly unsatisfying existence.

i think i spend about $US1000 a month, before i started playing poker i lived pretty nitty. $500US a month spending $20-$25 a week on food, $120 on rent. i spend a lot more on food these days, like $100 a week which is way too much. i wanna cut down more than half on that.

On August 01 2013 00:07 Loco wrote: I always find it interesting when people talk about how much they spend. It seems like it comes with being a poker player to spend more than is necessary for comfortable living. Maybe it's a way for the player to compensate for the struggle which is mostly unsatisfying? It's like you have to treat yourself otherwise you won't be able to keep going. I used to spend slightly more when I played, but never as much as the numbers most of you guys have. In my area you are extremely comfortable for under $800 a month if you live with someone. I think I spend about $700 a month and would like to cut down on that a bit myself. I like to gratify myself in ways that are sustainable and don't feed into/depend on something I don't absolutely want in my life. Poker was like that for me; I figured it's completely self-defeating to make efforts sustaining a cycle of existence which only consists in perpetuating a mostly unsatisfying existence.

I think it's pretty standard for people in the western capitalist 1st world far wider than poker players to spend "more than is necessary for comfortable living" almost no matter how you define that? Try to think of what avg wages are in some western country, the cost of a 'comfortable' living in that country and what avg savings rates/consumer debt levels are. As some guess at explanation I refer to maslow's hierarchy of needs (which im sure you're aware of without explanation as you seem quite learned, too much so to be posting on lp if anything) and how humans are made to be perpetually wanting and when some wants are fulfilled others emerge. Also our society and system offers many shiny things that make us believe we will be closer satisfied if we obtain them since they will satisfy one or many of our basic needs simultaneously and it might even work for a while before the need for more or something else emerges, making us addicted to constantly striving to meet our needs almost the only way we've learned how (with money). also i think it takes a great amount of personal discipline to delay or deny immediate want for gratification even when you consciously and logically know it's better for you in the longrun to forego now, so this basically captures 99% of the population right there.

it sounds from ur post that u have done a decent amt of introspection into the nature of your wants and giving yourself honest feedback about what works and doesnt, and set a plan for yourself that you think will optimise your happiness overall even at the possible cost of some short term delayed/denied gratification. If this is the case, good work and share more

i like talking about struggling vs our myopic desires, this is something almost everyone consciously battles with everyday.

i think we can manipulate our desires both through social change and personal challenges. Someone in another thread recommended dostoevskys 'the gambler'. There's a good bit in that book that reveals even back then that the Russians are degens and will gamble away all their money all the time, and that the germans were nits trying to save money up a little bit at a time each generation until they become Rothschild's. It's interesting that those cultures still exist today (there are tons of crazy Russians in online poker and all the germans are nits).

personally out of all my desires i find restricting internet use the hardest, and i think it has a pretty negative effect on my brain, it shortens my attention span and i've noticed internet users just don't read long articles or books as much. My siblings for example can read twice as fast as me and use the internet less than me. but i also have the inability to stop thinking which also makes it harder to read, maybe that's a factor as well.

In fact i went through a period about 3 years ago where i couldn't read anything more than a page long and really struggled to get myself through that, because i had such a weakened brain, i think i was borderline retarded at that point. i had to challenge myself to start reading again. ( i read more when i was a child, before we had internet).

We live in a kind of society that makes a lot of money off feeding into peoples short sighted desires, like advertising, excessive amounts of food, games, tv. Every day i think about how many jobs create value and how many detract from it (and how much they detract or add, then i look at how much they get paid)

ok, now im just rambling

On August 01 2013 10:02 Ket wrote: Show nested quote + On August 01 2013 00:07 Loco wrote: I always find it interesting when people talk about how much they spend. It seems like it comes with being a poker player to spend more than is necessary for comfortable living. Maybe it's a way for the player to compensate for the struggle which is mostly unsatisfying? It's like you have to treat yourself otherwise you won't be able to keep going. I used to spend slightly more when I played, but never as much as the numbers most of you guys have. In my area you are extremely comfortable for under $800 a month if you live with someone. I think I spend about $700 a month and would like to cut down on that a bit myself. I like to gratify myself in ways that are sustainable and don't feed into/depend on something I don't absolutely want in my life. Poker was like that for me; I figured it's completely self-defeating to make efforts sustaining a cycle of existence which only consists in perpetuating a mostly unsatisfying existence. I think it's pretty standard for people in the western capitalist 1st world far wider than poker players to spend "more than is necessary for comfortable living" almost no matter how you define that? Try to think of what avg wages are in some western country, the cost of a 'comfortable' living in that country and what avg savings rates/consumer debt levels are. As some guess at explanation I refer to maslow's hierarchy of needs (which im sure you're aware of without explanation as you seem quite learned, too much so to be posting on lp if anything) and how humans are made to be perpetually wanting and when some wants are fulfilled others emerge. Also our society and system offers many shiny things that make us believe we will be closer satisfied if we obtain them since they will satisfy one or many of our basic needs simultaneously and it might even work for a while before the need for more or something else emerges, making us addicted to constantly striving to meet our needs almost the only way we've learned how (with money). also i think it takes a great amount of personal discipline to delay or deny immediate want for gratification even when you consciously and logically know it's better for you in the longrun to forego now, so this basically captures 99% of the population right there. it sounds from ur post that u have done a decent amt of introspection into the nature of your wants and giving yourself honest feedback about what works and doesnt, and set a plan for yourself that you think will optimise your happiness overall even at the possible cost of some short term delayed/denied gratification. If this is the case, good work and share more

Yes, it's very standard indeed. But it's still not as much for the average consumer as the figures Midian is showing here. Only very severe cases of compulsive buyers. From my perspective, there is something else going if you have to spend this much money. There is an urge which is occulted, a deprivation seeking relief, and for which you seem to believe the best way to satisfy is to consume. It's a fact of our biology that we can't help to keep striving in order to remain satisfied and comfortable, but to believe that it is necessary to spend a lot in doing so is clearly a societal conditioning like you have said. I think the crucial part is understanding your own psychology enough to know that this is simply a trap. Once you see it as such you can avoid falling into it and end up making a better choice.

There is also a big difference between spending money to be physically comfortable and doing so while believing that always being physically comfortable leads to being happy/fulfilled. It's definitely not the case. The Maslow pyramid is a clear indication as to why that is.. it is about the complexity of desires when you introduce self-reflectivity into an animal: it is no longer simply about physiological comfort, safety, and procreation/nurturing. There is a dimension of meaning arising from self-relation which also has its own needs for the individual to satisfy. The problem is we are often deceived by things which won't really satisfy these things except very temporarily.

I don't have much more to share as far as my personal story goes. I've always been interested by people who have "mastered desire", and by the topic itself, but I am definitely not one of them and no longer aspire to be. John Stuart Mill said: "I have learned to seek my happiness by limiting my desires, rather than in attempting to satisfy them." This sums up the goal that I've had for my life (and I think I've said something similar in the past on here), but I've not pursued it as intensely as I should have for my own well-being because I simply do not care about my own well-being that much anymore. It's the result of my disposition, deficiencies and lack of faith in life. But I have read enough on evolutionary psychology to avoid basic traps which get most people in life over and over again. The guy we talked about in the past, Dan Gilbert, who has TEDTalks has some good material on that. There's also a video related to spending & happiness that comes to my mind:

On August 01 2013 11:57 Stroggoz wrote: i like talking about struggling vs our myopic desires, this is something almost everyone consciously battles with everyday. i think we can manipulate our desires both through social change and personal challenges. Someone in another thread recommended dostoevskys 'the gambler'. There's a good bit in that book that reveals even back then that the Russians are degens and will gamble away all their money all the time, and that the germans were nits trying to save money up a little bit at a time each generation until they become Rothschild's. It's interesting that those cultures still exist today (there are tons of crazy Russians in online poker and all the germans are nits). personally out of all my desires i find restricting internet use the hardest, and i think it has a pretty negative effect on my brain, it shortens my attention span and i've noticed internet users just don't read long articles or books as much. My siblings for example can read twice as fast as me and use the internet less than me. but i also have the inability to stop thinking which also makes it harder to read, maybe that's a factor as well. In fact i went through a period about 3 years ago where i couldn't read anything more than a page long and really struggled to get myself through that, because i had such a weakened brain, i think i was borderline retarded at that point. i had to challenge myself to start reading again. ( i read more when i was a child, before we had internet). We live in a kind of society that makes a lot of money off feeding into peoples short sighted desires, like advertising, excessive amounts of food, games, tv. Every day i think about how many jobs create value and how many detract from it (and how much they detract or add, then i look at how much they get paid) ok, now im just rambling

Not rambling, this is all accurate in my view.

On August 01 2013 18:44 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On August 01 2013 10:02 Ket wrote:   On August 01 2013 00:07 Loco wrote: I always find it interesting when people talk about how much they spend. It seems like it comes with being a poker player to spend more than is necessary for comfortable living. Maybe it's a way for the player to compensate for the struggle which is mostly unsatisfying? It's like you have to treat yourself otherwise you won't be able to keep going. I used to spend slightly more when I played, but never as much as the numbers most of you guys have. In my area you are extremely comfortable for under $800 a month if you live with someone. I think I spend about $700 a month and would like to cut down on that a bit myself. I like to gratify myself in ways that are sustainable and don't feed into/depend on something I don't absolutely want in my life. Poker was like that for me; I figured it's completely self-defeating to make efforts sustaining a cycle of existence which only consists in perpetuating a mostly unsatisfying existence. I think it's pretty standard for people in the western capitalist 1st world far wider than poker players to spend "more than is necessary for comfortable living" almost no matter how you define that? Try to think of what avg wages are in some western country, the cost of a 'comfortable' living in that country and what avg savings rates/consumer debt levels are. As some guess at explanation I refer to maslow's hierarchy of needs (which im sure you're aware of without explanation as you seem quite learned, too much so to be posting on lp if anything) and how humans are made to be perpetually wanting and when some wants are fulfilled others emerge. Also our society and system offers many shiny things that make us believe we will be closer satisfied if we obtain them since they will satisfy one or many of our basic needs simultaneously and it might even work for a while before the need for more or something else emerges, making us addicted to constantly striving to meet our needs almost the only way we've learned how (with money). also i think it takes a great amount of personal discipline to delay or deny immediate want for gratification even when you consciously and logically know it's better for you in the longrun to forego now, so this basically captures 99% of the population right there. it sounds from ur post that u have done a decent amt of introspection into the nature of your wants and giving yourself honest feedback about what works and doesnt, and set a plan for yourself that you think will optimise your happiness overall even at the possible cost of some short term delayed/denied gratification. If this is the case, good work and share more Yes, it's very standard indeed. But it's still not as much for the average consumer as the figures Midian is showing here. Only very severe cases of compulsive buyers. From my perspective, there is something else going if you have to spend this much money. There is an urge which is occulted, a deprivation seeking relief, and for which you seem to believe the best way to satisfy is to consume. It's a fact of our biology that we can't help to keep striving in order to remain satisfied and comfortable, but to believe that it is necessary to spend a lot in doing so is clearly a societal conditioning like you have said. I think the crucial part is understanding your own psychology enough to know that this is simply a trap. Once you see it as such you can avoid falling into it and end up making a better choice. There is also a big difference between spending money to be physically comfortable and doing so while believing that always being physically comfortable leads to being happy/fulfilled. It's definitely not the case. The Maslow pyramid is a clear indication as to why that is.. it is about the complexity of desires when you introduce self-reflectivity into an animal: it is no longer simply about physiological comfort, safety, and procreation/nurturing. There is a dimension of meaning arising from self-relation which also has its own needs for the individual to satisfy. The problem is we are often deceived by things which won't really satisfy these things except very temporarily. I don't have much more to share as far as my personal story goes. I've always been interested by people who have "mastered desire", and by the topic itself, but I am definitely not one of them and no longer aspire to be. John Stuart Mill said: "I have learned to seek my happiness by limiting my desires, rather than in attempting to satisfy them." This sums up the goal that I've had for my life (and I think I've said something similar in the past on here), but I've not pursued it as intensely as I should have for my own well-being because I simply do not care about my own well-being that much anymore. It's the result of my disposition, deficiencies and lack of faith in life. But I have read enough on evolutionary psychology to avoid basic traps which get most people in life over and over again. The guy we talked about in the past, Dan Gilbert, who has TEDTalks has some good material on that. There's also a video related to spending & happiness that comes to my mind:

In midian's case specifically i think the overwhelming majority of that figure went into the purchase of a pricey sports car. About the maslow hierarchy, those more basic needs (physiological comfort ', safety, love, esteem) must be satisfied as a precondition before we can really begin to focus on our higher needs of self-actualisation (what you call the new dimension of meaning). this chinese internet is too laggy to watch ur video but after reading a wikipedia of Epicurus and Epicureanism I'm pretty happy to read his ideas, indeed seems a good way to live by. was nothing i could disagree with.

also +1 stroggoz post

ha, caught 2 hands with you at nl2, and you 4bet my 3bet bluff, should have shipped it. Keep it up bro! Dat vpp grind