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Joeingram1 United States. Jan 20 2014 19:32. Posts 943 | | |
I went on a mini twitter rant yesterday about doing strategy videos on PLO and I wanted to write more about the idea of giving away poker strategy in 2014. People have been putting out strategy/training videos for years now, this isn't new. People putting out more and more PLO specific strategy videos is more of a new idea and something I was hoping would take as long as possible to actually start to take place. With RIO training site, I could see how it would make sense for the end game bosses like Phil and Odds to put out training videos while actually dicussing good, in depth strategy. The more action they get and the more people that could make it to playing 25/50+, the better for their overall bottom line, which is very debatable if that is actually true/false. What made me write those tweets yesterday is when I saw a PLO 200zoom video being put out by a new video maker. I watched a bit of it and then I became very confused as to why this guy would decide its ever a good idea to make a 1/2 zoom video that is his main game with the intention of making people better at playing zoom. I can't imagine this guy is getting paid anything close to the point where it makes any sense at all. I don't think many of the players who were around to watch as the NL games get progressively tougher years ago are the ones making PLO stuff now because they realize how fucking dumb it is. Maybe the reason is similar to what Marshall said in a post on here as to why he is making videos now. They are looking for respect from there peers and want to help others get better at the game. I think all video makers should watch videos from one of the guys that play on the Barcode account on Pokerstars (Hac Dang). The team of people that play on the account handled video making pretty perfectly. They attached there name on the site when it first launched to help there friend out and get more people to the site while putting out a couple vids each where they basically talked about nothing.
In isildroon last video he mentioned something about how more regulars are playing alot better now and the growth of other players game was going much quicker. It sounded like he was not sure as to why this might be happening but you never can be sure with accents. When one of the better regs in the games is putting out 2 videos a month playing a bunch of deep tables and going in depth into different things, what do you expect to happen to the games over a 6 month period??? It is seriously mind blowing that some of these guys on different sites are continuing to put content out there as they watch the games they play in get tougher and tougher directly because of them. I know as PLO continues to grow/become more popular and the regs are getting more and more experience the games difficulty will continue to increase faster but all of this makes that happen much much much faster.
I can see a bit more merit for some of the small stakes guys to put out videos but not too much more. The amount of money they might be making from doing these videos might actually be a big percentage of their overall bottom line and with the player pool being so large at the stakes they normall play, they don't have to worry as much about directly impacting the games they play in on a daily basis. Also the people that tend to watch these videos are usually of lower skill level so they will end up misapplying different concepts to their own game often enough. If I was a 100 or 200plo regular and poker wasn't my full time thing or in my near future, I would be tempted to put out videos on a regular basis as well if I could.
I think the obvious live poker equivalent for this is when people don't shut the fuck up about talking strategy/over hands at the table while the bad players are sitting there confused and the meh regs who breakeven/lose a bit might get encouraged to actually work harder at there game because of something you said and end up turning into winning regs. I read something that Alec Torelli wrote about it that I really agreed with and is basically saying the similar things I've been saying in this post http://www.alectorelli.com/blog/sharing-information-at-the-table/
As I wrote a bit about in a few previous blog posts, I've been working on writing up different things for my website. The problem I've run into is that I've always been pretty anti-giving away strategy (read my 12k posts on 2p2 to confirm this) and many of the things I intend to write about are actually strategical type of things. None of it is really game specific strategy but as I was writing up something about how to set better poker goals for yourself and actually make a plan to achieve them I started thinking why the fuck I want to try to help people that make there money from playing poker (like I do) set better goals and work more efficient. I do have the desire to help people out but I just can't convince myself it is very smart to put out content that is going to help my direct competition or future direct competition be more effective in what we both do for a living. As I mentioned before, there is the chance that things I might suggest is completely wrong/bad and/or people are going to misapply the ideas completely, but I don't think it outweighs the times it helps take a breakeven small stakes player to a winning midstakes player. Instead I was thinking about writing up strategy that pertains to life, love, and happiness but even with that I think I might end up having too much of a positive impact. I do think I am overestimating the impact but if it is > 0 that is probably too much.
I guess it comes down to what type of person you want to be and what kind of impact do you want to try to have on others around you. Can you live with and accept that you might be making a certain area of your own life harder while potentially bettering others in many different ways beyond that specific area of your own life that you might be making harder. Poker is such a unique world to be in that anytime you help the people you are closest with your potentially hurting yourself. There is a bunch of merit to the idea that writing about these ideas and getting feedback will potentially having a bigger positive impact on myself than could be measured but I'm not entirely sure I believe that yet. I think I will end up focusing more on entertaining content with some life strategy and less on trying to make others more successful poker players.
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lacman730 United States. Jan 20 2014 20:00. Posts 311 | | |
you already have Galfond putting out videos across all PLO limits and has been doing so since what 2008?
cardrunners opened pandora's box so to speak and at some point people just accepted the reality of training sites and the inevitability of games getting tougher.
for the midstakes guys putting out vids it probably just comes down to them thinking the money they get paid outweighs the drop in winrate caused by revealing your thought process to your direct opposition. its nice have a consistent income in a climate where edges are continually decreasing. |
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KeyleK_uk United Kingdom. Jan 20 2014 22:34. Posts 1687 | | |
yea training videos killed the games for me, I was watching them thinking ye this is cool I know all of this mr.CTS I must be good at this game... My happiness didn't last long. |
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| poker is soooo much easier when you flop sets | |
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TianYuan  Korea (South). Jan 21 2014 09:28. Posts 6817 | | |
| | Instead I was thinking about writing up strategy that pertains to life, love, and happiness but even with that I think I might end up having too much of a positive impact. I do think I am overestimating the impact but if it is > 0 that is probably too much. |
If you take this to such an extreme, it sounds to me like you'll just end up completely miserable...
Does it make sense to make strategy videos? Meh, if it's something you enjoy then I think yes. Living life entirely around $EV just doesn't seem like it would yield anywhere near the maximum Happyness EV. |
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k4ir0s Canada. Jan 21 2014 09:53. Posts 3478 | | |
^no kidding. you're actually worried about giving advice in regards to being happy? the fuck. I find it disturbing that you can actually be happy, with such shallow beliefs. |
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| I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -Oly | |
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Joeingram1 United States. Jan 21 2014 09:59. Posts 943 | | |
| | On January 21 2014 08:53 k4ir0s wrote:
^no kidding. you're actually worried about giving advice in regards to being happy? the fuck. I find it disturbing that you can actually be happy, with such shallow beliefs. |
huh??
i wasn't talking about giving advice towards happiness as something I was worried about, life, love and happiness flows together as a sentence lol
giving advice on ways to get better at poker is something I think is easy to do, giving advice to someone on how to be happy is pretty much impossible to do as everyone is happy with themselves doing different things and being different type of people
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Romm3l Germany. Jan 21 2014 11:54. Posts 285 | | |
hey guys, i hope you all read the blogs and writing on the website ive been hyping for a while now
by the way i'll do my best to not include content that might have a positive impact on my audience in any possible way |
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TheTrees United States. Jan 21 2014 21:02. Posts 1592 | | |
| | On January 21 2014 10:54 Romm3l wrote:
hey guys, i hope you all read the blogs and writing on the website ive been hyping for a while now
by the way i'll do my best to not include content that might have a positive impact on my audience in any possible way |
10/10.
You can't make a poker site and not expect to discuss some strategy. |
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Brian Townsend got completly figured out after he started to make videos. I bet he regret that... |
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Enigma Canada. Jan 24 2014 17:39. Posts 158 | | |
Thumbs up. One thing to consider is that as a "professional" your goal should be to be in a constant state of improvement and refinement. Putting out content to help others get just slightly worse than you may decrease your short-term expectation but three positive things will happen for you.
#1. The act of explaining a concept in detail effectively increases your core competency over that material.
#2. It will force you to think up counter strategy to the tools you are currently using to beat the game, forcing you to improve at a more rapid rate than other players.
#3. You can always keep the top 10% of your strategies to yourself allowing you to maintain an edge, while keeping weaker players in the action longer effectively increasing the longevity of the player pool. Allowing you to contribute to a more sustainable game environment.
Just my opinion, feel free to dispute any of these points. |
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goose58 United States. Jan 24 2014 20:30. Posts 871 | | |
You're a good player, but I don't think it really matters what you do in regards to giving away strategy. There's already so many good resources and tools, anything you do is like a drop in the bucket.
A player's limiting factor is he himself, anyways. |
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Joeingram1 United States. Jan 25 2014 12:45. Posts 943 | | |
yea goose, thats what stinger has told me every single time I ever bring up strategy and talk to him about why he makes videos. I'm not entirely sure I agree with it though but i think its pretty debatable |
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Joeingram1 United States. Jan 25 2014 12:47. Posts 943 | | |
| | On January 24 2014 16:39 Enigma wrote:
Thumbs up. One thing to consider is that as a "professional" your goal should be to be in a constant state of improvement and refinement. Putting out content to help others get just slightly worse than you may decrease your short-term expectation but three positive things will happen for you.
#1. The act of explaining a concept in detail effectively increases your core competency over that material.
#2. It will force you to think up counter strategy to the tools you are currently using to beat the game, forcing you to improve at a more rapid rate than other players.
#3. You can always keep the top 10% of your strategies to yourself allowing you to maintain an edge, while keeping weaker players in the action longer effectively increasing the longevity of the player pool. Allowing you to contribute to a more sustainable game environment.
Just my opinion, feel free to dispute any of these points. |
You are making these points from the pov of the video makers for the training sites correct??? |
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