Day 5 - downswing or just suck?

Don't take this the bad way, but I think you kind of suck. But you should still win in the game easily.

Your overall thinking seems to suck,

This isn't about online vs live, this isn't about trying to play ranges and hands in a certain way, like you would online or vice versa.

Live at 2-5 is about understanding Live.

It's about opening preflop 20x sizing with AA if you know the fish isn't folding ever,

It's knowing vs who to use small sizings and vs who to use bigger sizings,

It's about bluffing the exact right people, value betting light the exact right people and being ABC vs the exact right people,

More than half of the players on your table, will literally be as face up as they can with their hand, you shouldn't think about what they have, you should KNOW, exactly, MOST of the time, in a lot of spots, if you do not know exactly the 2 cards of your opponents in a lot of spots then yes, you do suck. Sorry.

It's about understanding what to do next, knowing all of this, it's about being optimal in everyspot, not relatively to your hand, but relatively to what you know he has and MOSTLY, understanding how he thinks, understanding if that exact guy will fold or not, understanding if he will think you are weak because you delayed cbet and will monkey off and then say something like "wow how can you have that if you didn't bet flop, etc etc", that is printing money.

There is exactly no balance required in 2-5 live poker, the word is overrated 10x and even stupid to use.

You don't have to be logical in your hands, some hands will seem ugly and terribly played but then again, it's only online players who will tell you that, because it isn't standard online.

The fish opens every hand to 30$ at 2-5, he is deep, you are deep, he never folds to 3bet, pump that fucking shit to 330$, why the fuck not,

Make the right money in the right spots vs the right people, that's live poker.

Only thing that HAS to make sense in live poker, and where most of the skill is at that level, is making the BIG RIGHT FOLDS at good timing. Obviously most of the time they are face up, but making big good folds is PRINTING.

I dont use a scripted betsize to maintain balance, I just use it because it seems good enough to get some value while giving you room to navigate postflop. If I start making it $300 pre to target one player then someone else unexpected tags along and queers the hand up. I think my range just needs some tweaking so that I'm not constantly getting outflopped.

Right now my range is

UTG: 22+/JTs+/QJo+/A9s+

MP: 22+/78s+/JTo+/A9o+/A6s+

CO: 22+/56s+/JTo+/A6o+/A2s+

BTN: 22+/54s+/JTo+/Ax+

SB: Play button range

If it's limped to me I'll almost always raise it. If someone raises ahead of me then I just call (barring big hands that deserve a 3bet). If someone 3bets me, which is rare, then I call depending on stack depth and if I'm in position. I keep getting too many callers though making it $20 preflop, and not sure if making it $50+ is a good idea with 54s ever, especially if I still get 1 caller.

I would make it 35

you can play 13vpip, fit fold post and crush

sth like this UTG+MP to 4BB

strong hands+stuff that plays well 3-4way


no point in isolating hands like 22-66, 78s etc. when you never get to go HU, just limp those behind

Also in the SB raising and limping range will prolly be optimal if they don't raise your limps much and don't fold to raises either (raise value hands, limp weak stuffs thats +ev)

Iso large in live. Just played this weekend in a local poker room and fish tend to call at the beginning so do it with good hands. But later after showing a couple of good hands, it's time to lag it up and watch them all wait for good hands.

your starting hand notation seems weird/incorrect.

I sort of agree with careface. Play less "robotic" and more player dependent. 100% no need to balance in live. I'll do stuff like limp AA, which I never do online.

On September 09 2015 11:36 Nitewin wrote: I sort of agree with careface. Play less "robotic" and more player dependent. 100% no need to balance in live. I'll do stuff like limp AA, which I never do online.

With AA, I usually make it 6 - 7x if the table is really loose. And then someone would comment "that looks like Aces" then call and see a flop. It's really hilarious.

On September 09 2015 10:36 LemOn[5thF] wrote: sth like this UTG+MP to 4BB strong hands+stuff that plays well 3-4way no point in isolating hands like 22-66, 78s etc. when you never get to go HU, just limp those behind Also in the SB raising and limping range will prolly be optimal if they don't raise your limps much and don't fold to raises either (raise value hands, limp weak stuffs thats +ev)

proly too wide for live fr, def fold 22-55

don't they just pay you off with TP all day long tho 3way etc? I assume players suck postflop

Ok so I think tonight's plan will consist of a lot more limping with the speculative hands and much larger raises with the big preflop hands. I'm also really going to zero in on specific players and just go for max value, whether that means a small bet or a big one. If I think he'll limp for 5 and call 80 then so be it. If I think he'll call $300 on the flop into a pot of $150 then so be it. If I think someone is only calling $50 into $150 then so be that. I'm just going to really think about what they have and what they'll call and just bet that amount.

So here's the last 3 hands I lost big pots to last night - 75o, JTo, T8o

These hands flopped the nuts vs me, but thats not the point. Assuming a $20-30 preflop raise tends to narrow villains ranges to these hands at worst, what kind of range and preflop sizing should I be using to target this tendency? I mean obviously ranges scale with betsizing, so if I make it $80 pre it's doubtful 75o calls, but I dont want to only be playing against AK every time so I have to be reasonable.

Newb your approach seems way off and too preflop oriented.

In that hand where 3 people limped before and you have KTs in the CO; just overlimp. The guys before you are easily limp calling hands like KQ/AJ even better in these 9 handed games. I don't think you should be isolating as much as you are. In these super soft limpy live games it can be better to overlimp a lot of hands and see cheap flops and then make your money postflop where your advantage is anyways. Seems like you are just bloating pots and getting frustrated when your hands don't hold.

Lemon gave good advice here

And i'm not big on crazy exploitative shit pre unless you have a very good reason (i.e. spewing with a fish so you make the 10x open on his BB or make a huge 3bet. I'm not ever opening 6bb as a standard because I am in a certain type of game. Seems bad.)

You are acting like people making poor calls against you preflop is a bad thing. I wouldn't raise larger to dissuade players from making -ev calls into making 0ev folds. You need to just take advantage of these calls postflop through solid play (can't obviously explain that - this is just your skill here). Live 9 handed is a very different game than 6max online and seems you still have adjusting to do

You can always squeeze preflop, if you see people raising way to much just 3 bet them pre. Stop worrying about opening ranges too much, just know which players you can push around, which players that play way too imbalanced and only bet the nuts, and those who have obvious betting patterns. Even if your preflop ranges are flawed you should be able to crush just playing as many hands post flop with fish and capitalizing on their huge mistakes and huge tells.

If you're going to stop iso-raising you'd be better off nitting it up until you regain the confidence to play wide and take advantage of every high % opportunity that arises.

Also, you're only 4 Bi's down, I think when i first started playing live semi regularly last year playing 2/3 5 to go I started off at around a 3 BI downswing and then started a climb up to 30k with a couple 2-3k dips in the process.

On September 09 2015 23:10 traxamillion wrote: You are acting like people making poor calls against you preflop is a bad thing. I wouldn't raise larger to dissuade players from making -ev calls into making 0ev folds. You need to just take advantage of these calls postflop through solid play (can't obviously explain that - this is just your skill here). Live 9 handed is a very different game than 6max online and seems you still have adjusting to do

Oh no I'm definitely not being one of those whiners who cry about people calling me too much. I put myself in a situation with too many players by trying to raise too many hands. Winning a big pot with 54s comes from letting the aggressor hang himself, not by being the aggressor yourself which would just amount to coolering someone.