Good bye poker. Hello eSports

On August 28 2016 19:00 Seobombisgay wrote: It feels pretty good knowing that my work actually benefits society for once

As if coaching players who play for personal entertainment provides more value than giving action to recreationals. They are on the same level.

Anyway good luck with your project. Wish you the best.

Yeah, I agree with what Cloud said.

It's cool that you left the gambling industry; however, if you really think you're benefiting society by working for a company that pairs gamers with coaches, then I don't really have much to say other than you still have a lot to learn about life, and the things you need to learn won't come by working for said company. What's more, your job is actually doing the opposite of what you think it's doing, aka not helping them in the long run. (this is coming from someone who worked in eSports during its peak in Korea)

you guys are nuts those two things aren't on the same level at all

gambling sites take advantage of people who have serious addictions

coaching helps people who are looking to improve at something

how are they remotely similar?

+1 asdf2000

Nice post OP, it's happy news whenever someone leaves that soul sucking industry and lands well.

yea ive always had a neg view of gaming but tbh it kept me away from gangs and a lot of government bullshit

On August 28 2016 20:03 ClouD87 wrote: Show nested quote + On August 28 2016 19:00 Seobombisgay wrote: It feels pretty good knowing that my work actually benefits society for once As if coaching players who play for personal entertainment provides more value than giving action to recreationals. They are on the same level. Anyway good luck with your project. Wish you the best.

On August 28 2016 20:55 asdf2000 wrote: you guys are nuts those two things aren't on the same level at all gambling sites take advantage of people who have serious addictions coaching helps people who are looking to improve at something how are they remotely similar?

IMO they have similar value because both the poker recreational and the gamer are doing the activity for fun and don't provide anything other than entertainment for other people in society. Crazy people who throw away their lives over their favorite hobby are a reality in poker but far from the majority. The same goes for gamers. I've known many people who fucked up their lives because they played too much online games. It's just all part of the entertainment industry.

I understand your perspective and from your point of view it seems like the guy who pisses away money at poker is doing worse than the gaming addict. But if you think about it the end result for both of them is the same. They use their time and resources in a far from optimal way and prevent themselves from being in a better financial situation in the future. They put their hobbies among their top priorities and it has a negative impact on their lives.

The way poker and games work for non professionals is the same. They both give players many sparks of instant gratification but are losing choices in the long run. People get addicted to the feeling and keep doing it and detach themselves from reality more and more. Most people can do it responsibly and some people can't handle it and destroy themselves. So I don't really feel like I'm robbing anyone playing poker or that being a poker pro is a disservice to society or is worth less than teaching people how to be better at videogames. I think adults are responsible for their own choices and if they fuck up there's no one else to blame. But of course to anyone their own opinion

On August 28 2016 20:16 PuertoRican wrote: Yeah, I agree with what Cloud said. It's cool that you left the gambling industry; however, if you really think you're benefiting society by working for a company that pairs gamers with coaches, then I don't really have much to say other than you still have a lot to learn about life, and the things you need to learn won't come by working for said company. What's more, your job is actually doing the opposite of what you think it's doing, aka not helping them in the long run. (this is coming from someone who worked in eSports during its peak in Korea)

I think we have the same opinion because we both worked with gamers and we know what they are doing is ultimately detrimental for most of them. Only a few are able to come out on top and move on at the end. Koreans especially because education is very important in their environment.

Definitely similar

Sure you can Tier them but still in the same group. Gamblers can easily play the tiniest levels and receive similar gratification, only a few need the max stakes rush. Same addictive personalities get lost in games and drop all other life stuff from stuff like WoW or LoL or w/e.

Just look at the gaming stereotype of basement dwelling, neckbeard, fat, greasy, socially awkward people. Is that everyone? No. can some of those people be harming their future? definitely, Think about how many kids failed or did terrible in school/university/trade certification because they are addicted to gaming the second they get home. Or do not even work and just live on welfare.

I agree with cloud

That shame, disgust, sorrow you feel for gamblers at casinos is societal moral shaming that is set into your head by others as a form of control similar to all the other shaming you are subjected too. It takes a strong person to break free of those deep routed learned behaviors and see it like it is: People doing what they want to do and you shouldn't shame them or look lesser of them because some might have a problem.

It is like shaming a person who has a personality disorder. Or the millions of none standard life traits.

The idea of group shaming is an old tribal system to keep order and a balance for max survival. We are advanced enough that it doesn't matter how all the fringe traits effect society now and this idea of moral shaming people to conform needs to be abolished.

On August 28 2016 20:03 ClouD87 wrote: Show nested quote + On August 28 2016 19:00 Seobombisgay wrote: It feels pretty good knowing that my work actually benefits society for once As if coaching players who play for personal entertainment provides more value than giving action to recreationals. They are on the same level. Anyway good luck with your project. Wish you the best.

Not that either of these two options are providing a ton of worth to society (that's fine, many jobs don't), I do think coaching someone provides more value than being a professional poker player... (whether you're coaching poker or video games).

If you're a very visible poker pro playing tournaments etc then maybe they would be kind of similar. I think the same could be said, mostly, if you were to compare professional player vs coach in most things.

Is that GamerSensei by any chance?

On September 04 2016 09:24 PanoRaMa wrote: Is that GamerSensei by any chance?

Yep

If you really love what you're doing you'll know it and wouldn't care about what people thought. Same goes for poker or esports etc. A lot of people just thought of poker as another "video game" when they got into it so it's only natural to progress to other things. Some still love playing so you cant really fault them for sticking with it.

The casino is the dope man. The professional player is the dope man. Anyone can rationalize and delude themselves that there is no harm being caused but there is. Poker players can be helpful and useful to society but not through poker directly. Poker is a very selfish endeavor and the lifestyle lends itself to selfish behavior. People can be helpful and useful to communities and society as a whole with profits but I saw very little of that.

There was this amazing 5/5 PLO game in the midwest with at least one and sometimes two straddles and everyone had tons of money behind. There was this one guy I will call him J. Pretty likable guy. Not horrible if he was light on the double Hennesseys but if he was stuck or tilted or lit he was certainly a profitable guy to be sitting by. I would always buddy up with him (mostly sincere because he was a funny guy but certainly some entertaining of customers thrown in there too), make him feel good and then take his money. Lots of it. We all rationalized, "oh, he is probably loaded" "oh, he owns a super popular restaurant" "oh, that is his responsibility when he sits at the table (which it is)." I bring up this story because it ends with J burning down the restaurant for the insurance money and getting investigated. I do not know how that turned out but at the time I think I was like "oh, that sucks. I hope he wins the case and gets a bankroll again." Back then I always thought selling crack or heroin to crack and heroin addicts seemed like a decent business if it was legal. Then I would think about the pharmaceutical companies and Coca-Cola.

Being away from gambling for a while and going through some things the thought of selling a heroin addict heroin is abysmal. There are some people that can enjoy the opiate bliss and not ruin their lives but most progress to some bad spots. Let's say real low on the scale is someone knowingly selling heroin cut with elephant tranquilizer and other bad fillers to someone that is a known junkie. The thing with poker is the dopeman is so many people. It is the casino, it is the 8 people at the table, it is the ambience in the poker room, it is the cocktail waitress, it is the beautiful poker chips that shuffle so well, it is the amazing pineapple juice, it is the top shelf liquor, and it is the ACTION. The other point is that it is so hard to know someone else's finances that there is no way of knowing how sick they are. I remember even online many of the big fish would just keep buying in. They would just keep buying in. Some would disappear for a while and I just did not think anything of it unless he was a regular whale. There is more of a disconnect online. It is similar with the gaming. It is hard to perceive a case of gaming that is more damaging than a junkie consistently shooting up dope cut with elephant tranquilizers and other bad shit but that does not mean it is not damaging. From personal experience I know I got to some places where I was pretty sick doing Pindle runs in Diablo II at the cost of a lot of things in life. Looking back I think "fuck, they had bots doing that stupid shit and I was running through there at the cost of homework, classes, social life, health, etc." So, I would usually snap out of it and it would not progress any worse. I remember some people back in warcraft 3 that were putting their whole lives into it to get maybe 3rd or 4th in the local WCG tourney. I am sure there are some more severe cases of it in S. Korea.

I have perhaps written too much but there are some topics here that I am really interested in (Ethics, being useful to society, addiction in all forms, addiction recovery)

ps

Congrats SIG1!

Interesting post (as always). It's one reason playing live doesn't appeal a ton to me, the detachment from people is nice... I think I would have a hard time dealing with something like what your J fellow did.