How Many Houses?

im starting to believe you may be a paid campaigner for Obama...

no politician is in touch with the American people, so the houses thing is a little bit whatever to me. None of them have to worry about losing their jobs or wondering about how to get better fuel economy. My point is that whenever a politician says anything about the American people, I generally stop listening right there, democrat or republican.

On August 22 2008 14:06 wakeboarrder wrote: im starting to believe you may be a paid campaigner for Obama...

Yea, it's really getting sad sir.

So mccain is a multimillionare, so what? Can you think of a presidential nominee that wasn't?

What is the story here, that he is so old that he can't remember? Or the 'problem' is just that he and his wife have money? That has been well known *forever*, i dont see how the fact that they chose to use some of that money to buy real estate matters in any way.

And obama isn't exactly struggling financially...

On August 22 2008 14:52 ShaunR wrote: Show nested quote + On August 22 2008 14:06 wakeboarrder wrote: im starting to believe you may be a paid campaigner for Obama... Yea, it's really getting sad sir. So mccain is a multimillionare, so what? Can you think of a presidential nominee that wasn't? What is the story here, that he is so old that he can't remember? Or the 'problem' is just that he and his wife have money? That has been well known *forever*, i dont see how the fact that they chose to use some of that money to buy real estate matters in any way. And obama isn't exactly struggling financially...

1) I am volunteering and donating like crazy to the Obama campaign. I wish I was getting paid, that would rule. But do you really think they're paying people to blog on LP? lol cmon now.

2) I didn't even know anything about Obama till the Iowa primary, and ever since then I've been a fan and started blogging about him. It's gotten more heated as time has gone by cause I've become a bigger fan and seen more attacks that I wanted to defend.

3) If you read the original post that this was a bump for, or if you thought about it for a second, you'd realize I'm just holding up the fucking mirror. I agree, since when are politicians poor, especially when they're running for President? Not very often. But the McCain campaign is trying to label Obama as rich elitist snob who is out of touch with regular americans, therefore you shouldn't vote for him. The point I'm making is that their attack is like the pot calling the kettle black. McCain is rich as hell, living the millionaire lifestyle, and definitely out of touch with regular american's. The argument he's using against Obama is much more applicable to himself.

4) Obama definitely isn't struggling financially, now. He was still paying off college loans until his books suddenly became best sellers. And as far as presidential candidates go this year, he's the least wealthy. Btwn the last 4 standing (McCain, Romney, Hillary and Obama) he was the least wealthy by far. But for some reason they paint him as the elitist snob.... despite his family having to survive on foodstamps at times while growing up. He's the american dream personified - mixed race parents, no money in the family, and now he's on the verge of becoming president thanks to his hard work all his life. But instead of seeing a man who came out of a lower middle class family fighting against racial discrimination and overcoming the obstacles to nearly have the highest job in the country, people are being given an image of an elitist arugla eating snob, which is a LOAD OF FUCKING BS. And I'm sick of it and I'm angry and I'm talking about it.

Being passionate enough about my country and its well being to blog about it sure as hell isn't a bad thing, and it's funny that you guys think the only reason someone would care as much as I do is cause they're being paid. I'm not running around into other peoples blogs or threads and trying to cause drama like the McCain trolls do. I am trying my damnedest to only put out facts and stay logical in my arguments. So quit with the "are you being paid?" BS and either make a real point or don't post a reply.

On August 22 2008 14:46 Moffa wrote: no politician is in touch with the American people, so the houses thing is a little bit whatever to me. None of them have to worry about losing their jobs or wondering about how to get better fuel economy. My point is that whenever a politician says anything about the American people, I generally stop listening right there, democrat or republican.

You make a good point. I guess my only response is that I believe Obama's upbringing means that he has a better chance of understanding than McCain does. Also from everything I've seen about Obama, I find him capable of empathizing with other people and taking all sides into account when making decisions, which is something I think we really lack in our politicians, so I'm very excited about him. I agree that right now Obama doesn't personally experience what we do, I know that he grew up through some rough times and understands what it's like to be in tough financial straights.

On August 22 2008 14:52 ShaunR wrote: Show nested quote + On August 22 2008 14:06 wakeboarrder wrote: im starting to believe you may be a paid campaigner for Obama... Yea, it's really getting sad sir. So mccain is a multimillionare, so what? Can you think of a presidential nominee that wasn't? What is the story here, that he is so old that he can't remember? Or the 'problem' is just that he and his wife have money? That has been well known *forever*, i dont see how the fact that they chose to use some of that money to buy real estate matters in any way. And obama isn't exactly struggling financially...

Seriously you totally missed the point I was making, or you're intentionally being thick.

yea POW shit is getting ridiculous alright, he plugs it in completely out of place often enough too. But realisically speaking Obamas whole change routine is just as fucking annoying. And while McCain is absolutely unacceptable, i think we have two idiots on our hands and were screwed either way.

As to not upset you, i do give Obama credit that he might have the capability to pleasantly suprise us, if elected.

On August 22 2008 15:26 SfydjkLm wrote: yea POW shit is getting ridiculous alright, he plugs it in completely out of place often enough too. But realisically speaking Obamas whole change routine is just as fucking annoying. And while McCain is absolutely unacceptable, i think we have two idiots on our hands and were screwed either way. As to not upset you, i do give Obama credit that he might have the capability to pleasantly suprise us, if elected.

Yeah I can understand you on the change thing - hearing it too many times it starts to lose it's meaning. At first I was revved up and and ready to kick ass everytime I heard it, now it's a bit like "ok heard this already". I do think he's harping less on change lately. I think the main problem for me is that I started watching cspan where you see his stump speech over and over again and start memorizing it and it all totally loses it's meaning. Usually when he comes out with a new speech it's pretty fucking sweet though, and the clip at the bottom of my last post was awesome.

And don't worry about upsetting me, that's totally cool, as long as you make a point rather than just attacking me, =)

Or in context it'd be like saying "That's a little confusing since my wife has purchased most of our property. Not wanting to give an incorrect answer I'll have my staff get to you on that."

McCain isnt like LYING. He knows he cant just never answer the question since its public knowledge. But keep running those smear campaign libs, makes anyone voting for obama like me look like a retard

On August 22 2008 15:40 SKoT wrote: Or in context it'd be like saying "That's a little confusing since my wife has purchased most of our property. Not wanting to give an incorrect answer I'll have my staff get to you on that." McCain isnt like LYING. He knows he cant just never answer the question since its public knowledge. But keep running those smear campaign libs, makes anyone voting for obama like me look like a retard

I think that the problem lies in the context of McCain attacking Obama for being a rich elitist snob, while McCain has so many houses that he lost count. Like I keep saying, it's the pot calling the kettle black.

And that's fine, I get it, they have some real estate investments. That's standard for rich people. I don't think it's WRONG for rich people to do that. But he should know he has 4 houses he lives in, and that's the answer his people came back with.

It's getting into semantics a bit, cause he owns houses, condo's, ranches, apartments, and so on, so when you say "how many houses do you own?" are we just talking about houses, are we just talking about places you live in, or what? Bottom line is if we throw them all under the category of "homes" he has 4 that he lives in and another 3-5 as investment properties (that number keeps changing in lots of different sources).

Again, I'm not saying it's BAD to have multiple homes. If I ever make big money I plan to have 3 homes. The point is that McCain is making an argument against Obama (rich elitist) that also fits against McCain and applies even more to McCain than Obama. Overall I think the argument isn't that great - just being rich doesn't mean you automatically don't understand regular americans.

But I do think that your life experiences affect that understanding, and personally I feel like McCain grew up very privileged as an admirals son who got special treatment despite his far below average performance. Then he went through some real hard shit as a POW, which is the one thing that sets his path to be different than bush's imo. He got home and left his wife who had been disfigured in an accident while he was at war, and then married into serious money and ever since lived the easy life.

So easy life growing up, shitty life in Nam, then easy life ever since. Been a while since he's seen hard times and he's never experienced hard economic times at all. Obama has experienced hard economic times (surviving off food stamps) and I think that puts him in a better position to be in touch with regular Americans. I think everything about Obama's story gives him a better feel for regular American's than McCain.

I don't think anyone has really accusing obama of being a rich elitist snob, so much as they are contrasting his actual history with the one people have been led to believe.

A good example is your silly statement that he was at any point "surviving off food stamps". I suggest you google this to find the real story

Thanks for pointing out the food stamp thing - it looks like I had it a bit wrong. I was only able to find what looked like right wing blogs (or at least anti-obama blogs) who were talking about it and wish I could find something more in the middle to use as a source, but the one thing that looks common amongst everyone is this quote from obama which seems to be the main source of the claim:

"I had to reconcile a lot of different threads growing up—race, class," he told me. "For example, I was going to a fancy prep school, and my mother was on food stamps while she was getting her Ph.D."

So from what I've seen right now it looks like I was wrong in the idea that Obama was living off food stamps at some point (him personally). I conceede that.

But it's funny how these blogs approach it. They attack him being in the private school, which he paid for with a combination of a payment/scholarship. And they attack his mom for getting a Ph.D. That cracks me up cause I know plenty of people who are studying for their Ph.D and they're fucking broke. Lots of them live in special subsidized tiny apartments on campus and have low paying teaching jobs. So studying for a Ph.D isn't the same as having money.

Now maybe I have these other facts wrong so correct me if that's the case. Thanks for pointing out the food stamp thing, I had the wrong perception of it and won't say it that way anymore.

On August 22 2008 19:42 ShaunR wrote: I don't think anyone has really accusing obama of being a rich elitist snob, so much as they are contrasting his actual history with the one people have been led to believe.

I've been forgetting to add "celebrity" to that list, and I definitely think they are trying to paint him like that with comments like this arugula shit and ads like this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JHoUUEkQjTk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JHoUUEkQjTk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Plus they keep flat out lying, saying obama's solution to high gas and high food prices is higher taxes! lol, that's pretty fucked up. Especially considering that Obama has lower taxes for more people than mccain does (I know you don't like his approach but I think you don't deny that the # of people who get a tax cut is larger under obama). So when they say his plan is higher taxes, it's a lie and that's the shit that annoys me.

Lastly, I don't get this "celebrity" attack line - why is it bad to be cool and have people like you, especially people overseas? It seems to me that people overseas liking our president would be helpful in the future when trying to fix relations with em.

Well, I'm pretty sure his prep school was paid for by his wealthy grandparents.

The criticism of obama being a "celebrity" is really a reflection of how he became the nominee and why he is popular. The arguement is that his popularity is a result of dramatic show-business like speeches which actually contain very little substance. There is a lot of 'popularity contest' involved in politics, but I think it would be pretty difficult to argue that obama deserved the nomination based on issues, record, and experience over the other democrats who were competing against him. Thus the idea that his success is based primarily on his 'pop-culture celebrity status'.

This is also why he has little chance of beating mccain. His celebrity status is quickly wearing off and what remains is a very inexperienced mediocre candidate with very liberal views.

On August 22 2008 21:37 ShaunR wrote: Well, I'm pretty sure his prep school was paid for by his wealthy grandparents.

I'm 99% sure there was a scholarship involved. Let's see which of us gets off our ass to research it =)

The criticism of obama being a "celebrity" is really a reflection of how he became the nominee and why he is popular. The arguement is that his popularity is a result of dramatic show-business like speeches which actually contain very little substance.

Cmon, the guy was fighting a serious uphill battle - Clinton was the "inevitable nominee". I figured it was going to be her. Then Iowa happened and everything changed. As far as little substance, I never felt like that. I was intrigued by his style in his Iowa concession speech, but not a fan till I saw him live in Denver and he wasn't only cool and fun to watch, but I agreed with everything he was saying and the goals he set were similar to goals I had always talked about. He sounded like me when I was bitching about politics. I was really surprised. Then I got on his website and read his policies and liked em. I disagree with the no substance claims.

There is a lot of 'popularity contest' involved in politics, but I think it would be pretty difficult to argue that obama deserved the nomination based on issues, record, and experience over the other democrats who were competing against him. Thus the idea that his success is based primarily on his 'pop-culture celebrity status'.

Issues were basically the same between him and hillary and edwards, with a few differences which I liked Obama on better. I personally don't think a long washington experience is a good thing - too much time to be corrupted, so Obama won on experience. Record I felt was solid in Obama's favor. I don't mean just a voting record, but his life story and the positions he'd taken. I also was overall impressed by his judgment and ability to calmly approach problems. I don't like this "shoot from the hip" and "gut reaction" politics shit. So basically from what I've seen I don't think he won it cause of a popularity contest.

This is also why he has little chance of beating mccain. His celebrity status is quickly wearing off and what remains is a very inexperienced mediocre candidate with very liberal views.

I'd say an inexperienced (which is a plus) inspiring candidate vs an old, forgetful candidate who sold out his views to appeal to the right so that he could be president.