For Cap - Debate 2

Andrew Sullivan:

This was, I think, a mauling: a devastating and possibly electorally fatal debate for McCain. Even on Russia, he sounded a little out of it. I've watched a lot of debates and participated in many. I love debate and was trained as a boy in the British system to be a debater. I debated dozens of times at Oxofrd. All I can say is that, simply on terms of substance, clarity, empathy, style and authority, this has not just been an Obama victory. It has been a wipe-out.It has been about as big a wipe-out as I can remember in a presidential debate. It reminds me of the 1992 Clinton-Perot-Bush debate. I don't really see how the McCain campaign survives this.


New York Times:

Here, Mr. Obama has a star turn -- on foreign policy, Mr. McCain's supposed turf. Mr. Obama is more forceful than usual, and makes the hunt for Osama bin Laden his singular focus.


National Review's Andy McCarthy:

We have a disaster here -- which is what you should expect when you delegate a non-conservative to make the conservative (nay, the American) case. We can parse it eight ways to Sunday, but I think the commentary is missing the big picture...


...With due respect, I think tonight was a disaster for our side. I'm dumbfounded that no one else seems to think so. Obama did everything he needed to do, McCain did nothing he needed to do. What am I missing?


Chris Cillizza:

Status Quo. By and large, both Obama and McCain stuck to their tried and true attacks on their rival. Obama cast McCain as a clone of the current president whose judgment on domestic and foreign affairs had been wrong time and time again. McCain painted Obama as a liberal who wants to raise taxes and increase spending in the midst of an economic crisis. No new ground was broken. Obama, smartly, stuck to a script to avoid any sort of flub that could change the general direction of the race, which is a trend in his favor.


Ross Douthat:

I'd call tonight's debate a draw, which if the dynamic from the first debate holds probably means it was a big win for Obama. I was gratified by the approach McCain took - by the absence of personal attacks (though, yes, the dislike still came through), by the attempt to actually engage with Obama on issues like health care, and yes, by the promise to buy up home mortgages, which was exactly the kind of blatantly panderish thing McCain needs to do if he wants to actually win this thing. (More on this tomorrow.) But Obama was unruffled and consistent - change vs. more of the same, change vs. more of the same, rinse and repeat - and for whatever it's worth the physical and generational contrast between the two men was very striking in this setting, and especially in the early going McCain seemed to me be showing his age as he delivered his answers. He improved as the night went on, but the vigor gap was palpable.



Political Wire:

Tonight's debate wasn't even close. Sen. Barack Obama ran away with it -- particularly when speaking about the economy and health care. Talking about his mother's death from cancer was very powerful. On nearly every issue, Obama was more substantive, showed more compassion and was more presidential.

In contrast, Sen. John McCain was extremely erratic. Sometimes he was too aggressive (referring to Obama as "that one." Other times, he just couldn't answer the question (on how he would ask Americans to sacrifice.) And his random attempts at jokes (hair transplants?) were just bad.


CBS News:

And this new poll has good news for the Democratic ticket: Just as in the first presidential debate and the vice presidential face off, more uncommitted voters say the Democratic candidate won the debate. (The exact numbers may change as more respondents complete the survey.)


Thirty-nine percent of the 400 uncommitted voters surveyed identified Barack Obama as tonight's winner; 27 percent said John McCain won, while 35 percent saw the debate as a draw.

After the debate, 68 percent of uncommitted voters said that they think Obama will make the right decisions on the economy, compared to 54 percent who said that before the debate. Fewer thought McCain would do so - 49 percent after the debate, and 41 percent before.


Washington Post:

Who won? I look forward to your answers to that question. As I did the first time--just 11 days ago, if you can believe it--I did not think this was McCain at his best. He often seemed very self-conscious to me. His breathless voice tonight sometimes seemed strained and unnatural. His determination, evident in the first debate, to avoid his catch-phrase "my friends" disappeared tonight. He repeated himself quite often. But he ended very well. Obama seemed to project the same steady, cool persona we saw the first time out, and which, the polls say, won the debate for him then. But he avoided answering quite a few questions, which may have annoyed viewers. Of course McCain avoided answering some questions too.


Joe Conason:

John McCain's latest debate performance points up the cynicism of his recent attacks on Barack Obama's character -- which he plainly did not dare to repeat before the live audience on national television.

The theme of McCain being disrespectful and blatantly showing his dislike for Obama continued in this debate. There are 2 moments that stuck out. One is at the end when McCain totally dodges shaking Obama's hand as Wolf Blitzer talks about McCain's "disdain" for Obama:



And the other moment came when McCain was talking about an energy bill and he referred to Obama in a very dismissive way... watch:



Now some people are trying to spin that as racist. I don't think it was. I just think it's McCain being an old dude and annoyed by a young "liberal" who's kicking his ass. But it's funny cause earlier in the debate there was a question from a young black voter about the economy and McCain said "I bet you never heard of fannie or freddie before now" (or something like that). The questioner was actually in law school and HAD heard of them. Hell I've heard of them, that's how I got one of my student loans. But McCain wasn't scoring points with people with these comments.



Obama's best moments of the night came when talking about Iraq and healthcare. He flipped McCain's "You don't understand" line from the first debate around and pwned JohnnyMac: (watch the graph at bottom to see the reaction of undecided voters)



Then he had the better answer on health care, at least in my opinion and in the opinion of the undecided voter focus groups. The question was about how the candidates saw healthcare to be, whether it was a right, or a responsibility or a priveledge. McCain said it was a responsibility, while Obama said it was a right:



Again, the graph's spike. Woot.

I guess the biggest news coming outta the debate was that McCain proposed another 300 BILLION in spending to have the Govt buy up bad mortgages and then renegotiate the price to allow people to stay in their homes. He made a big deal about how this was "My plan, not Obama's". This backfired bigtime. First off, Obama had pushed for something similar to be in the bailout bill but so far the Govt hasn't put it into action. Second this is exactly the type of thing that conservatives hate. Third, and most importantly, his plan is to buy the bad mortgages at the ORIGINAL PRICE, not the current one. This means that we'd be OVERPAYING for these mortgages and giving the banks even more bailout money. This leaves the loss on us, the taxpayers. The only way his idea makes any sense is if the Govt buys at the LOW CURRENT PRICE. In McCain's proposal taxpayers burden the loss and banks walk away 100% saved. It's a plan to save the banks, not the American people.



Lastly, let's end with a fact check from FactCheck.org:

* McCain proposed to write down the amount owed by over-mortgaged homeowners and claimed the idea as his own: “It’s my proposal, it's not Sen. Obama's proposal, it's not President Bush's proposal.” But the idea isn’t new. Obama had endorsed something similar two weeks earlier, and authority for the treasury secretary to grant such relief was included in the recently passed $700 billion financial rescue package. Update, Oct. 12: The day after the debate the McCain campaign released additional details of the mortgage plan, which Obama aides said made it a new idea, and a bad one in their view. * Both candidates oversimplified the causes of the financial crisis. McCain blamed it on Democrats who resisted tighter regulation of federal mortgage agencies. Obama blamed it on financial deregulation backed by Republicans. We find both are right, with plenty of blame left over for others, from home buyers to the chairman of the Federal Reserve. * Obama said his health care plan would lower insurance premiums by up to $2,500 a year. Experts we’ve consulted see little evidence such savings would materialize. * McCain misstated his own health care plan, saying he’d give a $5,000 tax credit to “every American” His plan actually would provide only $2,500 per individual, or $5,000 for couples and families. He also misstated Obama’s health care plan, claiming it would levy fines on “small businesses” that fail to provide health insurance. Actually, Obama’s plan exempts “small businesses.” * McCain lamented that the U.S. was forced to “withdraw in humiliation” from Somalia in 1994, but he failed to note that he once proposed to cut off funding for troops to force a faster withdrawal. * Obama said, “I favor nuclear power.” That’s a stronger statement than we've heard him make before. As recently as last December, he said, “I am not a nuclear energy proponent.” * McCain claimed “1.3 million people in America make their living off eBay.” Actually, only 724,000 persons in the U.S. have income from eBay, and only some of them rely on it as their primary source.

Alright, hope that's good enough for ya Cap =)

0 votes

ugh yeah i seriously despise mccain's last few years. he seemed like such a decent guy back in the 90's.

even though i think of myself as being mildly conservative when it comes to economics and foreign policy - foreign policy being the primary selling points for the presidency - conservative economic thinking has gone down hill and conservative foreign policy is now pretty much on equal footing with liberal foreign policy.

but yeah mccain's every move is sick. palin, then the bail out bill, then this apparently retarded mortgage thing, generally looking senile on stage, and finally the latest scare tactic with ayers...

i really hate that both candidates are working to push the debt far over our GDP when there's such a volatile financial situation in the world, and the relative amount of our debt might become extremely important.

we're doomswitched. the only responsible thing to do is to not vote. imo if you do vote, you can't complain

And I know you'd hate to give up your right to complain =)

yeah I agree with your first post pretty much 100%

Thanks alot man. You are the best!
Thanks again

ty