MMAth to the MAX.

All this data, that had to be organized somehow to put the end to this old-age argument. And what I came up was really quiet simple. I chose 4 criteria, and each of the fighters in question will get 8 through 1 points, with 8 being awarded to first, and 1 to last. Heres what i've got:



W% is Win percentage
QoOF is Quality of Opponents Faced- its judged using the O column of the first table.
ToOLt is Toughness of Opponents lost to- its judged using the AOL column of the first table.
TTO opponents is statistics against opponents that are currently placed in sherdog top 10 rankings.

I was just doing it for fun, but it shocked me how accurate those rankings turned out to be. Surely they are slanted somehow and surely Fedor isnt first, but lets make a few sane adjustments to the list, lets say we dont count Fedors loss to TK via illegal elbow. Fedor jumps into first with 26 points! Unfortunately i couldnt take that liberty as I was vigorously informed that

On October 28 2008 11:01 Zeller wrote: You said Fedor never lost, that was false, I corrected it

On October 28 2008 12:06 JudgeMathis wrote: Actually... Fedor does have a loss. :D Wiki is the best.

On October 28 2008 12:00 statix wrote: he technically does have a loss...we all know that he would ahve won the fight had it not been for the cut but yes, its still a loss.

Great Success! Point proven, and backed up by facts as much as any P4P discussion can possibly be. I was correct, if Silva were to retire right now, he would not be included in history books as Mayweather Jr, Ali, Sugar Ray or even Klitschko brothers. Silva is #2 on P4P list because he has credit, credit for his amazing performances, his dismantling of opponents. We just naturally expect his next opponent to be dismantled in exactly the same way. Truth is- nobody knows. Just remember the wins Soku raked - Silvaeque destructions of top tenners Arona and Little Nog, before his magic bubble was burst. Truth is, if he were to quit now, in a couple of years time people like Mousasi, Penn, Gomi, Machida, Filho, Alvarez and many others will have records under they belt that eclipse anything Anderson ever did.

And for that reason i hope that whole retirement talk and dicking around is just a way to get away from the UFC and continue onto the path of destruction which hopefully will eventually lead to the king himself. Fedor Emelianenko.

0 votes

this record bs doesnt judge who best p4p is. why are you giving machida top 10 wins over penn and franklin when they are 1 and 3 weight classes below him lol? machida is not in any top 10 p4p and prob not in most top 20s, although i could see him at the lower end of 20.

id say fedor, nog, couture, hendo, rampage, asilva, gsp, bj, sherk, faber, kid, torres are all clearly ahead of machida in the p4p category. can make arguments for guys like shogun, forrest, alves, diego, fitch, franklin, gomi, aoki. a few others have arguments as well and are roughly in the same area as machida



everyone knows top 4 of p4p is fedor, gsp, anderson and bj in no particular order. fedor is generally considered #1, anderson #2, and gsp/penn 3/4.

people improve/get worse over time. anderson early losses are meaningless, his loss vs okami was a dq and his loss vs chonan was well, a loss :D, but it was 4+ years ago. look at his last 10 fights. he has not really been threatened and has the potential to beatup multiple weight classes.

fedor is a 230 pound heavyweight destroying the hw division. enough said why hes p4p sick.

gsp crushes his own division and has beaten larger fighters like trigg very convincingly.

bj penn crushes his own division and the 3 times hes moved up were really really good bouts. lost a split decision to gsp, lost to hughes when he broke his rib and beat hughes.

On October 28 2008 03:58 Daut wrote: this record bs doesnt judge who best p4p is.

P4P is BS overall this is as close as you get to it being based on facts.

why are you giving machida top 10 wins over penn and franklin when they are 1 and 3 weight classes below him lol? machida is not in any top 10 p4p, not in any top 20 and maybe not even top 30.

I was just interested in what the numbers for Machida say, he has no business in this tbh I dont respect Anderson for fighting at MW much either, giving that hes actually a giant who is a cutting magician.

everyone knows top 4 of p4p is fedor, gsp, anderson and bj in no particular order. fedor is generally considered #1, anderson #2, and gsp/penn 3/4.

I really dont understand how GSP can possibly be below Anderson. His wins are better, his losses are better, his record is better.

people improve/get worse over time. anderson early losses are meaningless, his loss vs okami was a dq and his loss vs chonan was well, a loss :D, but it was 4+ years ago. look at his last 10 fights. he has not really been threatened and has the potential to beatup multiple weight classes.

This is my point. You dont say you proved everything you had to prove after beating up 3 p4p top 10s. Unless you had nothing to prove in the first place.

also as for victories over top 10s, fedor beat coleman when he was one of the best, arona when he was a heavyweight (although i think arona actually should have won this fight but lost the decision), heath herring when he was top 5 hw, randleman when he was top 10 for sure, and some others like sammy schilt who was a k1 legend. counting lindland who is 2 weight classes below is silly

and fedor does not cut weight, he could easily fight in the LHW division but he doesnt, to me it would be like if Silva fought with the likes of Rampage, Wandi etc

nah baal, the bone structures are so different. he would really lose his effectiveness by cutting, would gas way easily and would lose a ton of power cause his bones are just too big.

asilva might walk around 220 or so but theres no way he can fight at that weight cause hes too thin bodyshape

On October 28 2008 04:09 Daut wrote: also as for victories over top 10s, fedor beat coleman when he was one of the best, arona when he was a heavyweight (although i think arona actually should have won this fight but lost the decision), heath herring when he was top 5 hw, randleman when he was top 10 for sure, and some others like sammy schilt who was a k1 legend. counting lindland who is 2 weight classes below is silly

Lindland weighted in at 212 and Fedor weighted in at 235 so not that big of a difference. So as long as its done properly weight class wise i dont see a reason why it shouldnt count. Henderson has a win over Nog, same thing, Hendo is fairly large at MW, Nog is a tiny HW. Its not Machida vs Penn, which i tho also counted^^

Thats what i was trying to say only took like 6 edits.

As for first part of your post, you clearly didnt read the walls of text.

On October 28 2008 04:10 Daut wrote: nah baal, the bone structures are so different. he would really lose his effectiveness by cutting, would gas way easily and would lose a ton of power cause his bones are just too big. asilva might walk around 220 or so but theres no way he can fight at that weight cause hes too thin bodyshape

I give you that while MW is impossible for Fedor, LHW would pose no problems. He has a lot of fat he could dump, and he only weights 20-25 pounds above the limit.

ya he prob could but i dont think he'd be nearly as effective if he had to cut.

and the lindland thing its like, even if hes 212 pounds that doesnt mean hes a top 212 pound fighter. hes a top 185 fighter.

as for the gsp > anderson or anderson > gsp thing, i mean i really dont care how you rank 2nd, 3rd, 4th. im open to all of them. but i think fedor is clear 1

On October 28 2008 04:27 Daut wrote: ya he prob could but i dont think he'd be nearly as effective if he had to cut.

I cant see how losing a few pounds of fat can make him less effective at all.

and the lindland thing its like, even if hes 212 pounds that doesnt mean hes a top 212 pound fighter. hes a top 185 fighter.

Well its a valid point, and youre free to think what u please, these are just numbers.

On October 28 2008 04:31 SfydjkLm wrote: Show nested quote + On October 28 2008 04:27 Daut wrote: ya he prob could but i dont think he'd be nearly as effective if he had to cut. I cant see how losing a few pounds of fat can make him less effective at all.

well the way i see it he weighs like 235 right now. hed probably have to get his weight down to about 215 then cut to 205 the 2-3 days before. losing 20 pounds is kinda difficult for him hes just so thick muscle wise. i also think his sickness comes partially from the fact that he doesnt have to ever cut the water weight and is well hydrated. even if he lost effectiveness he is also fighting weaker fighters so yea he would still crush 205 obviously cause hes a hero but i dont think it would be the unreal sicko fedor you see now

either way he would be by far #1 205 if he cut. i was going off on a stupid tangent, yea he could make it and yea hed be #1 at 205. but he doesnt need to

On October 28 2008 04:36 Daut wrote: Show nested quote + On October 28 2008 04:31 SfydjkLm wrote:   On October 28 2008 04:27 Daut wrote: ya he prob could but i dont think he'd be nearly as effective if he had to cut. I cant see how losing a few pounds of fat can make him less effective at all. well the way i see it he weighs like 235 right now. hed probably have to get his weight down to about 215 then cut to 205 the 2-3 days before. losing 20 pounds is kinda difficult for him hes just so thick muscle wise. i also think his sickness comes partially from the fact that he doesnt have to ever cut the water weight and is well hydrated. even if he lost effectiveness he is also fighting weaker fighters so yea he would still crush 205 obviously cause hes a hero but i dont think it would be the unreal sicko fedor you see now either way he would be by far #1 205 if he cut. i was going off on a stupid tangent, yea he could make it and yea hed be #1 at 205. but he doesnt need to

Yes but hes also quiet chubby too so he has plenty of space to work from. Im sure hed be able to cut that had he have enough practice, if he were to cut right now i think itd cost him dearly first time. And ofc there are men like Hendo who i believe said he walks at 195? Who are so much sharper at 205 then 180.

I can see it taking away Fedor speed and agility edge, fighting in a lower weight class, however, who know, maybe if he cut all the fat he has hed be even faster.

but yea your method of going about it is ok, but you really really need to tweak some stuff.


for one, i wouldnt include beating fighters who moved up to your weight class from much lower as something noteworthy. so machida beating penn, fedor beating lindland i think are not the least bit worth mentioning.

however, fighters who have had some success in your class and could be considered good in your division are worth saying, as well as moving up to fight in larger divisions. this includes machida beating franklin, gsp beating bj and sherk, bj beating hughes, hendo beating nog, etc.


for two, i think you should mention the fighter's ranking at the time of the fight, not now. when fedor beat herring, herring was a top 5 hw and gave nog a real run for his money, and was thought to be the best possible person to eventually beat nog. this is very much worth mentioning.


for three, i think the record stuff should be more subjective. i dont think giving machida's 13-0 record the same amount of points as bj's tough resume is fair. you really need to just subjectively rank the people someone has fought and how they have done/should be expected to do.

theres some other stuff but its 645 am and im getting tired. its a cool thing you did but def need to tweak some stuff with it to make it more accurate with how people's subjective (but generally correct) views are

Well it always been my desire that someone would make an ELO based MMA fighter ranking similar to TLPD or GGnet SC rating databases, however this takes too much time and i just did it for fun and there will be no improvements

Unless Meat wants to lauch liquidmma.net and clone TLPDin there

Well my argument its not that if Fedor moved to HW and so did Silva Fedor would beat him, that is silly, its more pointed in the way that, Fedor cannot be compared to Silva because Fedor is a tiny and chubby HW destroying the weight class, while Silva's Body is probably the best in his entire weight class.

Also for anyone who still thinks Silva > Fedor, just watch his last fight, what a freaking embarassment, it shows the great difference in their mentality as an athlete, Silva not taking his fights seriously and jumping around like BruceLee giving a poor passive display and a really shitty fight that should have ended in the 1st round.

Fedor can EASILY, easily, make LHW. Without any problems at all. 185 would be a stretch but I don't even think that it is impossible for him to make that. Trying to make 185 he could fail or cut too much but 205 is a joke for him. He won't bother because anyone who wins at a higher division will stay there.

Anderson is not top P4P. I have him as #5. Fedor/Kid/Penn/GSP/Silva. I haven't seen a good argument for rating him above any of these been made. Three out of this list tear a new hole into divisions that they don't belong in. Penn can compete at 170, Fedor at HW is the best in the world even though he is the smallest guy in there, and Kid fights 2-3 weight classes above what he should be fighting at. GSP is comparable to Silva but his wins are better and his game is much more well-rounded.

How is GSP's game much more well rounded than Silvas?

Silva has zero tools that help him decide where the fight is played out.

I disagree, I think his BJJ is good enough to allow him to either Stall the action and stand, or sweep and get up.

I also think Machida will be top 10 p4p soon if they ever feel like giving him a title shot.