first blog post :o

kekekkeke

Holy shit man good job. I cannot believe you have had that kind of success in only 2 months.

I strongly recommend you move back down to NL25 until you get a sufficient roll for NL50.

You said you stayed at NL10 and decided to take a 8bi shot at NL25. Based on your graph, you broke even after 3200 hands at NL10 and decided to just play underrolled at limit further than one you weren't even beating. This is a huge flaw in bankroll management, something that is extremely important and poker and you can't disrespect.

I'm not going to comment on your ability to play poker, but you aren't even at 15bis for NL50. In all seriousness as well, if you believe playing 2 tables NL50 will get you a better winrate than playing 10 tables of NL25, it means your ability to multitable is very poor, not because your skill level increases dramatically as you cut tables.

Just know 2895 hands extremely little and if do hit a downswing (inevitable), you MUST make yourself move down. If you can't do this, you aren't cut out for poker.

Make sure to remember, poker can treat you nice, but it will toss you to the ground and spit on your face when you don't expect it. Good bankroll management is the key to softening the blow.

That all being said, good job with your success so far. Keep it up!

Orome, there is 1 word to express my feelings right now as a player who started playing at roughly the same time as you.

Jealousy! <3

hi =) i recognize you from TL. that is a sick graph.

but ya definitely move down to 25nl. you havent hit a downswing yet and its going to be very very mentally tough when it happens, especially when you have so few buyins.

On January 08 2009 01:45 edzwoo wrote: I strongly recommend you move back down to NL25 until you get a sufficient roll for NL50. You said you stayed at NL10 and decided to take a 8bi shot at NL25. Based on your graph, you broke even after 3200 hands at NL10 and decided to just play underrolled at limit further than one you weren't even beating. This is a huge flaw in bankroll management, something that is extremely important and poker and you can't disrespect. I'm not going to comment on your ability to play poker, but you aren't even at 15bis for NL50. In all seriousness as well, if you believe playing 2 tables NL50 will get you a better winrate than playing 10 tables of NL25, it means your ability to multitable is very poor, not because your skill level increases dramatically as you cut tables. Just know 2895 hands extremely little and if do hit a downswing (inevitable), you MUST make yourself move down. If you can't do this, you aren't cut out for poker. Make sure to remember, poker can treat you nice, but it will toss you to the ground and spit on your face when you don't expect it. Good bankroll management is the key to softening the blow. That all being said, good job with your success so far. Keep it up!

I agree with pretty much everything you said, here's my reasoning for my br management so far:

1. Yes my multitabling ability's poor. I managed to get 25bb/100 on NL5 12 tabling just by playing like 14/11, c-betting every flop then giving up and stacking off with TPGK or better. When I moved up to NL25 this just wasn't enough for a solid winrate anymore. I could definitely multitable more competently now, but I would still be playing very mechanically. My first priority right now is getting better at the game, not maximizing my winrate and I feel like I'll improve much quicker 2 tabling a stake higher.

2. If I ever go beneath 600 again I'll definitely move down. Yes, even a small downswing on NL50 would hit me hard with just a 700$ bankroll, but I feel like taking the risk's worth it. Potential winnings at poker go up exponentially the higher you play (losses too obviously ), so because I can think I can beat NL50, I feel it's worth taking the risk because redepositing $200 or something wouldn't be such a big deal yet.

I wouldn't ever take chances with br management on higher stakes just because you have so much more to lose. If someone takes a shot at 10/20 with 10k and they lose 5 buyins they've just lost half the roll they've been working on their whole poker life, if I lose half my roll it's not that bad because objectively speaking it's not that much money and most time involved building it was time spent learning the game at NL2-5.

I guess you could argue that practicing good br management now is good practice for when you get to higher stakes and have exponentially more money to lose, but I feel like I'm disciplined enough to make good decisions in how I use my bankroll.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I realize I'm taking a risk a poker player shouldn't take and that I'm not an idiot running hot thinking he can get away with anything, but right now I think the rewards for continuing to play NL50 outweigh the risks.

Thanks for the comments guys.

btw, in every interview I've read so far from successful online players, they mentioned discussing poker with friends as one of the key aspects that helped improve their game. if anyone feels like poker with me sometimes, I'd love to exchange msn. Of course if someone better than me wants to help me with my game a bit I'd be more than greatful and if you're playing below I'd be happy to try to help you out with my very non expert opinions.

not to sound like an ass man but...don't lie to yourself, you know it's fundamentally wrong what you're doing. You see, by playing underrolled, poker becomes 100% gambling imo, I see that you have great potential to be a solid winning player soon. Don't rush it. Rushing it now while you're running hot (coz you are really, believe me) is a good way to move up faster obv, but you're missing out on a lot of experience also encountering all kinds of scenarios and situations - experience counts a lot. Imo, microstakes is a great place to learn how to play, and get a ton of experience through the sheer number of hands you have to go through, (playing against retards also teaches you a lot lol). Don't start with the wrong foot, coz it's gonna bite you in the ass at the most hurtful time ever. You started off gambling, you made it now, all you gotta do is correct that by going for relatively safe br management. I mean, how can you say you can beat NL50 if u just played so little hands? Be safe and do the right thing, move down to NL25, own those donks there and safely get to 1k , THEN take your shot. I think you're the 20bi move up type anyway. Just don't rush it man, just don't. Trust me on this.

NEILLYAA has been through micro/lowstakes a lot before, that's why imo his 10bi shots are somewhat more justifiable ( i think)

Taking shots is totally fine if you're in control of what you're doing (i.e. moving down at 600$ is totally fine).

If you want to take shots at 50NL when you have 15 buyins for it, that's totally fine. Not everyone has to follow a 20 buyin bankroll management (or more).

Besides, if you only play 2 tables, you obviously need a much smaller bankroll to practice correct bankroll management.

Good luck Orome~!

It's not such a big deal to play underolled from time to time because it allows us to play more excitingely (? spelling ?). Grinding nl2 with a 100 buyin rules, would you do that ? Most of them would say no because it wouldn't be poker anymore, afterall we're playing for fun right ? Sure money is important, but if we don't get any fun with playing at all then we will NEVER improve (or not improve as much as gamboling).
You know, it reminds me of a story where there is a child and his father, and the child start asking something among the lines : I wonder if it's dangerous to (put something that could fear you out something like a electricity line) and then the father say : Why don't you try ? Child try get hurt and learnt. So he won't ever do the same thing unless he knows what he's up to.
It's the same for poker.
End story

br management is based on math, not skill. some get a better run of cards than others during the building stages, so be it. if you feel you can risk it, then its probably ok too. it will jst be confusing when u have to move down when u hit a bad when you do start something the wrong way, then itll be like , 1 table of 100nl etc. do what you feel you can handle. good luck

On January 08 2009 03:56 whamm! wrote: not to sound like an ass man but...don't lie to yourself, you know it's fundamentally wrong what you're doing. You see, by playing underrolled, poker becomes 100% gambling imo, I see that you have great potential to be a solid winning player soon. Don't rush it. Rushing it now while you're running hot (coz you are really, believe me) is a good way to move up faster obv, but you're missing out on a lot of experience also encountering all kinds of scenarios and situations - experience counts a lot. Imo, microstakes is a great place to learn how to play, and get a ton of experience through the sheer number of hands you have to go through, (playing against retards also teaches you a lot lol). Don't start with the wrong foot, coz it's gonna bite you in the ass at the most hurtful time ever. You started off gambling, you made it now, all you gotta do is correct that by going for relatively safe br management. I mean, how can you say you can beat NL50 if u just played so little hands? Be safe and do the right thing, move down to NL25, own those donks there and safely get to 1k , THEN take your shot. I think you're the 20bi move up type anyway. Just don't rush it man, just don't. Trust me on this. NEILLYAA has been through micro/lowstakes a lot before, that's why imo his 10bi shots are somewhat more justifiable ( i think)

I'm not saying I'm beating NL50, it's way too soon for me to say that, but based on what I've seen so far I feel confident I can beat it, most people I've played so far seem really exploitable.

I'm seriously considering moving down based on what all of you have been saying, I think if Twisted hadn't come in and said it was fine I'd be back at NL25 by now.

what do you mean by 'you're the 20bi move up type' btw?

It's somewhat too low for an young poker player to move up at only 20bi as you won't learn enough on these limits.
I think that's what he means.
You can feel free for rush but i'm pretty sure you won't handle the downswing.
Better get a downswing at nl5 or 10 rather than nl50 right ?
Don't hesitate to move down, i repeat, DON'T HESITATE, even if you feel you got an edge cauz ur bankroll simply won't permit it.
Just so you get an idea : Catyoul (Catul now i think?) said that for instance if you stick to a 50bi rule you'd have way less chances to get bankrupt than with a 10bi rule even with the bigger edge / favorites hands and so on.
Just move down if you get sucked out even if you were 90% favourite.

On January 08 2009 09:37 Orome wrote: Show nested quote + On January 08 2009 03:56 whamm! wrote: not to sound like an ass man but...don't lie to yourself, you know it's fundamentally wrong what you're doing. You see, by playing underrolled, poker becomes 100% gambling imo, I see that you have great potential to be a solid winning player soon. Don't rush it. Rushing it now while you're running hot (coz you are really, believe me) is a good way to move up faster obv, but you're missing out on a lot of experience also encountering all kinds of scenarios and situations - experience counts a lot. Imo, microstakes is a great place to learn how to play, and get a ton of experience through the sheer number of hands you have to go through, (playing against retards also teaches you a lot lol). Don't start with the wrong foot, coz it's gonna bite you in the ass at the most hurtful time ever. You started off gambling, you made it now, all you gotta do is correct that by going for relatively safe br management. I mean, how can you say you can beat NL50 if u just played so little hands? Be safe and do the right thing, move down to NL25, own those donks there and safely get to 1k , THEN take your shot. I think you're the 20bi move up type anyway. Just don't rush it man, just don't. Trust me on this. NEILLYAA has been through micro/lowstakes a lot before, that's why imo his 10bi shots are somewhat more justifiable ( i think) I'm not saying I'm beating NL50, it's way too soon for me to say that, but based on what I've seen so far I feel confident I can beat it, most people I've played so far seem really exploitable. I'm seriously considering moving down based on what all of you have been saying, I think if Twisted hadn't come in and said it was fine I'd be back at NL25 by now. what do you mean by 'you're the 20bi move up type' btw?

well some practice more aggressive br management, and have become succesful at it, you might belong to that category, all im saying is that 15bi or less makes it a lot more risky, and you cant get a higher frequency of attempts if you run bad, which is really key to moving up and being succesful at it imo. honestly i dont even think itll take u a week to make another 250 from 25nl, just so that ur more on the safe side when taking ur 50nl shot. 10bi at 25nl is extremely easy and doable even in just one session. just take a little more time man all im saying really.good luck

By learning enough on these limits do you mean poker skills themselves or more 'soft' skills like tilt control, handling downswings, etc.?

Because I believe I'm learning way more about poker on NL50 than on NL25.

Luckily I haven't hit that big downswing yet, I imagine it'll be pretty hard to handle, but yes, I will definitely move down if/when it happens.

On January 08 2009 11:21 whamm! wrote: Show nested quote + On January 08 2009 09:37 Orome wrote:   On January 08 2009 03:56 whamm! wrote: not to sound like an ass man but...don't lie to yourself, you know it's fundamentally wrong what you're doing. You see, by playing underrolled, poker becomes 100% gambling imo, I see that you have great potential to be a solid winning player soon. Don't rush it. Rushing it now while you're running hot (coz you are really, believe me) is a good way to move up faster obv, but you're missing out on a lot of experience also encountering all kinds of scenarios and situations - experience counts a lot. Imo, microstakes is a great place to learn how to play, and get a ton of experience through the sheer number of hands you have to go through, (playing against retards also teaches you a lot lol). Don't start with the wrong foot, coz it's gonna bite you in the ass at the most hurtful time ever. You started off gambling, you made it now, all you gotta do is correct that by going for relatively safe br management. I mean, how can you say you can beat NL50 if u just played so little hands? Be safe and do the right thing, move down to NL25, own those donks there and safely get to 1k , THEN take your shot. I think you're the 20bi move up type anyway. Just don't rush it man, just don't. Trust me on this. NEILLYAA has been through micro/lowstakes a lot before, that's why imo his 10bi shots are somewhat more justifiable ( i think) I'm not saying I'm beating NL50, it's way too soon for me to say that, but based on what I've seen so far I feel confident I can beat it, most people I've played so far seem really exploitable. I'm seriously considering moving down based on what all of you have been saying, I think if Twisted hadn't come in and said it was fine I'd be back at NL25 by now. what do you mean by 'you're the 20bi move up type' btw? well some practice more aggressive br management, and have become succesful at it, you might belong to that category, all im saying is that 15bi or less makes it a lot more risky, and you cant get a higher frequency of attempts if you run bad, which is really key to moving up and being succesful at it imo. honestly i dont even think itll take u a week to make another 250 from 25nl, just so that ur more on the safe side when taking ur 50nl shot. 10bi at 25nl is extremely easy and doable even in just one session. just take a little more time man all im saying really.good luck

Thanks

I'm at over 800$ now so I have 16+ BI for NL50 and I don't think there's much point in going down again now when I'm almost properly rolled for NL50, but it'll definitely be the last 10 BI shot I'll take.

lol I feel like you guys jinxed me with all your downswing talk and this is the beginning of the end




don't you love it when people 2 outer you, then try to tilt you by typing lol u suck in the chat?