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hoylemj   United States. May 27 2009 12:42. Posts 840 | | |
This post is for notes, important tidbits, insights, and helpful resources (posted as comments below).
(Also, for any suggestions/feedback/comments/death threats/praise/payment arrangements/etc just drop me a PM instead of commenting here. Thx!)
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hoylemj   United States. May 27 2009 12:59. Posts 840 | | |
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hoylemj   United States. May 27 2009 13:03. Posts 840 | | |
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hoylemj   United States. May 27 2009 13:51. Posts 840 | | |
BR Management
Cash
+ Show Spoiler +
NeillyJQ
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2009 Yearly Goals and BR management
NL2 til 180 (18 bi for NL5)
NL5 til 220 (22 bi for NL10)
NL10 til 625 (25 bi for nl25)
NL25 til 2250 (45 bi for nl50)
NL50 til 5500 (55 bi for nl100)
NL100 til 12,000 (60 bi for nl200)
NL200 til 40,000 (100 bi for NL400)
NL400 til 65,000 (109 bi for NL600)
NL600 til 105,000 (105 bi for NL1k)
NL1k til 225,000 (112.5 bi for NL2k)
NL2k til 550,000 (110 bi for NL5k)
NL5k til 2M (can play all games under 200/400)
(I've had suggestions that I don't have to wait until 2M, the most likely of scenarios)
HU & MTT's - Must have 100 + buy-ins
180 MAN SNG's - 200 BI
90 MAN SNG's - 125 BI
45 MAN SNG's - 75 BI
HU SNGS - 4-8 tabling
6.25 turbo - $190.00
11.5 turbo - $300.00
23.0 turbo - $840.00
$34.50 turbo - $1200.00
$57.50 turbo - $2000.00
(will move down if I hit the max bi for the level below)
6m + FR - 8-24 tables
HU - 2-8 tables
MTTs - up to 25 tables
-Sundays 10% bankroll allowance if not staked that week
-Avoid Fast tables (more time/more tables/more money)
-Stop loss! use 90 min timed sessions or stop if losing 5 bi before 90 mins Muwheli - BR Math, etc.
& BR Management+ Show Spoiler +
I thought I'd write a simple guide for beginners (a bit more beginners than me) because even some, perhaps a bit better or at least decent, players tend to overlook this concept. People don't listen to the advice given to them and sometimes, even if they do, they end up doing against these advice anyway.
Poker is a game of patience. This means that you need patience to be good at poker (Surprise!). This doesn't exclusively mean patience when sitting down to a table. It's always recommended that you don't play with money you cannot afford to lose. However many people view this as relative to their bankroll outside their pokerworld when it really should be viewed as relative to the money invested in poker.
If you're going to invest $50 to internet poker, let's say PokerStars (because I'm familiar with the stake system used there). You might think "It's not so much money". Then a thought follows: "Playing penny tables with such bankroll is pointless, I go try out the bigger tables". This is a VERY (and thank god for that) common problem among beginning players. The truth is that the level is absolute crap whether you play in $0.02/$0.04, $0.05/$0.1 or $0.5/$1. The difference is that in the latest one, you'll lose up your $50 before you can say "bad beat". Now this is where the patience kicks in. You must practice in the small tables, no matter how pointless it seems to be tossing pennies at each other. The idea is to win money, not to win money fast (although sometimes people can hit the latter with a proper upswing).
This far every beginning player (as in player who started playing after me that I know of) hit the phase when they want to try bigger stakes out of pure frustration to "noobs calling crap" or for whatever reason. What happens here is that they'll lose up a lot if not all of their bankroll, feel compelled to deposit more money and end up having a gambling problem or at least losing a lot of money. The other case is them hitting an upswing and doubling (if not more) their bankroll in an hour, a day or a couple of days. Remember that it's easy to be good when the cards favour you! Pretty much every player I know of who has hit an upswing has lost their money soon enough as a result of a downswing and a tilt caused by it. Now this is not what you want to happen and thus, you should obey these guidelines (These are for Limit Hold'em):
1. You should have at least 300x BBs bankroll to enter a higher stake game
2. You should enter a table with a bit more than the recommended buy-in (I like to go in with 3x default buy-in)
3. Don't stray! Breaking rule number one can easily end up in you losing your schmuck.
Some of you might notice that 300x BB is quite a lot of muny compared to the buy-ins at the tables. It is very true that this recommendation is maybe a bit too strict for the penny tables. So I'm now going to present a simple table on stakes and bankroll you should have. This should be quite safe for the early levels.
$0.02/$0.04 <= $9.99 $0.05/$0.10 $10 -> $74.99
$0.25/$0.50 $75 -> $249.99
$0.50/$1.00 $250 -> $500
Now at this point a word of a warning! Downswings can be biggish compared to these recommendations. That is why you have to have the decency to move to smaller stakes again if you happen to hit the pathological end of the statistics. For $0.25/$0.5 I'd say move down if you hit $40 and for $0.5/$1 you should probably move down, should you hit $150. I don't yet have experience on higher stakes, but when I do - I'll make a follow up article about that too.
Also I'd like to add a formal recommendation for No Limit ring games. On this I have no personal experience, but I've been heard said that a safe way to play is to have 30x the maximum buy-in. This might be VERY safe and practically less might be enough - like 10x the max buy-in. Depends on who you ask I suppose.
I'd like to mention a common errareous thought that often occurs when bad players make bad calls and hit their miracle cards on the river giving them a royal flush or what ever. It is VERY important to realize that these players are who you get your money from and you should always think it that way. Some players make the mistake of thinking "I'll go to higher stakes where people don't make stupid calls and respect the raises/bluffs". This is not what you want! Know this and you'll feel a lot more comfortable playing these ultra loose tables. Moving up in stakes might make your opponents respect your raises, but you'd end up getting out played quite fast.
I know what I'm talking about in the sense of having built my whole bankroll from $6 and never going broke. Obey these guidelines as strictly as possible and you're pretty much guaranteed not to go bankrupt. Also I'd like to add that it is probably good to have at least $100 before starting to play Sit'n'Go tournaments. This is because one bad beat can ruin your $5.5 which is quite high portion of smaller bankrolls, however there is another way to start training for SnGs. Some poker sites introduce $1+$0.2 48-handed SnGs. The rake is quite high, but these could be used for training before you reach the $100 post. Catyoul - BR and Variance Math.
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So, how many buyins do I need for ... ?
So, I have been getting 6541 BB/100 (on about 250 hands, got beat by a sick 18-outer, so it could be better), am I better than Rekrul ?
So, I've been crushing NL50 on so many hands (like, you know, 5000), do you think I am ready for NL2000 ?
Those questions are asked frequently enough that I thought a summary of everything bankroll/winrate/variance-related would be good. I'm sure most people here have at least a basic grasp of bankroll management, but you may still be able to learn some more advanced concepts here. Fortunately, I don't think many people on liquidpoker have a gambling problem or seriously flawed bankroll management, but if this guide can help at least one person to avoid busto and educate the newer and less experienced members, it should be worth it.
Part I : You need good bankroll management
While we are playing this game on the premise that superior skill will make us money on the long run, things are more hectic on smaller time scales because of the random nature of the game and it can get pretty ugly if you never have the occasion to get to the long run because you busted before that. The best players also experience long (tens of thousand hands) breakeven stretches, tiltless 10-15 buyins downsing,... This is part of the game and there's nothing you can do to make it go away. It's very easy to ignore this when you are on a good run, to think you're the new king of poker and you're invincible. Don't. Just don't.
But fighting variance and keeping you in the game is actually only half the use of a bankroll. The other half is helping you handle the swings psychologically. If you have $20000 in your roll and lose 5-6 buyins at NL400, it shouldn't be a big deal nor affect your confidence and your game too much. You shouldn't even blink. On the other hand, if you have $20000 and you're playing NL2000, you are in for a world of pain.
That's why we keep a bankroll, to avoid busting when luck doesn't go our way. You will have heard of the typical 20 buyins rule for NL hold'em or 300B for limit. These are basic rules and already better than nothing. Pretty simply, when you have 20 buyins for the next limit you move up, if you fall down to 15, you move back down. If you have typical winrate and standard deviation, and most importantly a good discipline in moving down, you should be able to live your whole poker life with just this rule and never bust.
Advanced bankroll requirements concepts
Those are typical numbers, but you may be curious as to how they are derived, or you may have atypical winrate, standard deviation or risk aversion and want something more specific for your needs. While you may not be interested in how the formula is derived (though I'm pretty sure at least two people on this board will be interested if they don't know it already), you may want to play with it a bit to see how things change if you increase or decrease a bit your winrate, etc.
The actual formula is :
B = -ln(r)*sigma²/(2w)
r = exp(-2wB/sigma²)
where
B = bankroll
r = risk of ruin
sigma = standard deviation (in some units)
w = winrate (in the same units as standard deviation)
This assumes you will play at a given limit forever. Although as soon as you start playing enough at a limit and don't withdraw you'll be fine : indeed, winning and thus adding money to your bankroll reduces your risk of ruin as a consequence. Doubling your roll makes your risk of ruin gets squared so it goes down very quickly. Also, if you are correctly disciplined and willing to go down in limits the risk of ruin or the bankroll requirements are significantly reduced. I could prove that formula, but instead of rewriting the proof, I will send you to this excellent post by BruceZ on the 2+2 probability forums.
Typically, you would get your winrate and standard deviation from PokerTracker (standard deviation is in the session tab, "more details..." in BB/100 hands. Standard deviation is, in simple terms, the amount off average something is on average. Let's take an example :
Desired risk of ruin : 0.5%
Winrate : 5BB/100
Standard deviation : 45BB/100
Bankroll = -ln(0.005)*45*45/(2*5) = 1073 BB = 2145 big blinds = 21.5 buyins
There you are, the 20 buyins guideline can be found as a direct application of the formula for some typical values.
Desired risk of ruin : 0.5%
Winrate : 10BB/100
Standard deviation : 45BB/100
Bankroll = -ln(0.005)*60*60/(2*10) = 536 BB = 1072 big blinds = 10.7 buyins
Here you can see the importance of winrate on the final result. The more you're crushing the game, the less buyins you need.
Desired risk of ruin : 0.5%
Winrate : 5BB/100
Standard deviation : 60BB/100
Bankroll = -ln(0.005)*60*60/(2*5) = 1907 BB = 3815 big blinds = 38.1 buyins
Standard deviation varies a bit from person to person, depending on the playing style and the number of players at the table. Here are typical SD values in BB/100 (courtesy Casper...) :
* weaktight players are ~<30, usually low 20s
* TAGs are anywhere from 30-60 depending on their game
* brilliant SH NLHE player is like 50
* brilliant fullring NLHE is 30-40
* a true good lag can have a sd over 50 in fullring NLHE, and over 60 in sh NLHE
So you can see the fullring players usually have a lower standard deviation than the shorthanded players, hence have lower swings and lower bankroll requirements. As you can see above when we changed the 45 s.d. to a 60 s.d., which could be considered typical numbers, we went from 20 buyins required to 38 buyins required. That's why it's generally recommended to have a bigger bankroll for 6-max games than for fullring.
I recommend this page if you want to calculate it for yourself : http://support3.com/poker/bankroll/
It will also provide you with the results for slightly different winrates and risk of ruins, which is cool.
Or if you just want a good scientific calculator, try PCalc.
PS : Multi-tabling doesn't change anything to bankroll considerations mathematically. However, if you're prone to tilt, I can see having 12 tables open at the same time being potentially more harmful than 4, for example if you decide to go allin on all your tables at the same time But, essentially, it doesn't change anything to bankroll calculations.
Part II : Winrate considerations
As you should also notice, your winrate is key in determining your bankroll needs. For example, in a game you're crushing you can get away with a real low 10 buyins bankroll. However, how can you be sure you're crushing the game and not just being lucky ? And by the time you're sure you're crushing the game, you will have much more than 10 buyins anyway. We can see a posteriori why so many of us could build up easily from the $50 on party playing NL5 though
Determining your true winrate isn't obvious and always require a lot of hands in a game like poker where the variance is much higher than the winrate. It's always a hot topic and how many hands you really need is always somewhat mysterious. I remember hearing 10k hands when I first started as a good starting point for the long run. It's laughable now and anything under 100k hands will get people smiling at you. It's more subtle than that in reality and also directly related to your standard deviation.
So, as I was saying before, standard deviation is, in simple terms, the amount off average something is on average. It helps answer the question "how often will I be that far from the average ?" For example, if you flip a coin a hundred times, it is expected to land on heads 50 times. But how likely is it that it will land on heads more than 55 times, or 60 times ? How about less than 20 times ? Using basic statistics, we can answer all these questions.
Standard deviation is proportional to the square root of the sample size. That has a couple implications. First of all, when you have your SD in PT, it is per 100 hands. To convert it to different sample sizes you have to multiply by the square root of sample size / 100. So if you have an SD of 50 BB for 100 hands, on 100k hands you would have an SD of 50*sqrt(100000/100) = 1581 BB for 100k. It also has implications on the speed of convergence of your winrate to your true winrate. When you increase the number of hands played, your earnings increase linearly with respect to the number of hands, but at the same time, your standard deviation also increases, but in square root of the number of hands only. The earnings/deviation ratio, which is central in determining your confidence in your winrate, evolves only in square root of the number of hands, which is pretty slowly for those of you who don't see how the sqrt(x) function looks.
Let's get to that. The probability an event occurs decreases as it gets further from the mean, that's pretty intuitive. More quantitatively, an event wil occur within one SD of the mean 68% of the time, within two SDs 95% of the time (more exactly within 1.96 SDs), and within three SDs 99.7% of the time. To come back to our first example, when you flip a coin a hundred times, the standard deviation is 5. So we'll get 45-55 tails 68% of the time, 40-60 tails 95% of the time. Now, let's apply this to poker. Assume your winrate is 5BB/100 and your SD 60BB for 100. Where does your true winrate lie with 95% certainty after 10k hands ? What about after 100k hands ?
Estimating your winrate confidence inteval
After 10k hands, your SD is 60*sqrt(10000/100) = 600 BB. Your earnings are 5BB/100*10000 = 500BB. Now remember that the 95% confidence interval is within two SDs. Thus for 10k hands your true win rate is 500BB +/- 2*600BB, or per 100 hands 5BB +/- 12BB. Your true winrate is with 95% confidence between -7BB/100 and 17BB/100. See what I was talking about with the 10k sample size being laughable above What about 100k hands now ? Earnings are 5*1000BB +/- 2*60*sqrt(1000), which gives 5000BB +/- 3794BB, for a winrate per 100 hands of 5BB +/- 3.8BB, or between 1.2BB/100 and 8.8BB/100. Congratulations, you're a proven winner at 95% confidence. Notice how wide and inaccurate the confidence interval is, even after one hundred thousand hands ! So, the general formula would be :
Confidence interval = c*SD/sqrt(sample size/100)
where
c is a factor to decide the confidence you want. Typical values to use :
- 1 for 68% confidence (to NOT use would be more appropriate)
- 1.96 for 95% confidence
- 2.17 for 97% confidence
- 2.58 for 99% confidence
- 3 for 99.7% confidence
You can find c for your desired confidence level in a table of the standard normal distribution or in Excel with =NORMSINV((x%+1)/2).
You might be interested in the probability you're a winning player with a certain confidence. If so, use this formula in Excel :
=1-NORMDIST(0,winrate,SD/sqrt(hands/100),true)
where winrate is in BB/100, and SD is in BB for 100 hands. NORMDIST is the Excel function for the cumulative normal distribution from minus infinity to 0, with mean = winrate, and sigma = SD/sqrt(hands/100). For an observed winrate of 5BB/100 and an SD of 60 for 100 hands, you get approximately 80% after 100k hands and 99.6% after 100k hands (notice this formula is just for being a proven winner, not a winner at that specific winrate !).
How many hands would I need for a given accuracy
Another question you may ask, is how many hands must be played in order to accurately know one's winrate within +/- 0.5BB/100 for example. While it's somewhat more academic and less useful, it's pretty interesting to try it once for educative purposes.
It depends on what level of confidence you want of course. Let's see the requirements for 95% confidence and 99% confidence for typical values, even though, as you'll quickly see, you probably won't play enough hands at that level to ever reach this accuracy in your life. The actual winrate doesn’t enter into the calculation actually. It would if we had specified the accuracy as some percentage of the winrate of course.
The standard error (SE) of the win rate is always SD/sqrt(N/100), where SD is the standard deviation for 100 hands, and N is the number of hands. For 95% confidence, we need 0.5 bb to be about 1.96 standard errors. For 99% confidence, we need 0.5 bb to be about 2.58 standard errors. Call this number s, for the number of standard errors. Then we have :
0.5 = s*SD/sqrt(N/100)
N = 100*(s*SD/0.5)^2
We can use this equation to get the following results:
95% confidence:
For SD = 60 bb/100, N =~ 5.5 million hands.
For SD = 40 bb/100, N =~ 2.5 million hands.
99% confidence:
For SD = 60 bb/100, N =~ 9.6 million hands.
For SD = 40 bb/100, N =~ 4.3 million hands.
So as you can see, it takes a ridiculous amount of time to achieve 0.5 bb/100 accuracy. The bottom line is short term results are mostly meaningless. Even long term, comparing your 9BB/100 to someone else's 7BB/100 and bragging about how much you pwnzor him isn't very meaningful. Don't bother trying to pinpoint your winrate with 0.1BB/100 or even 0.5BB/100 accuracy, it's completely futile, even more so considering you will (hopefully) improve during the course of your play. Never forget that even if you are playing much better than your opponents, it will still be very likely for you to drop 1, 2, 5, 10, 15 buyins without even tilting. And you'll probably have an even worse downsing at some point assuming you play enough (one extremely good player on this site had a 40 buyins downsing once for example). Just the inherent luck factor in the game of poker.
Part III : Some variance
That brings up an interesting question. Given a winrate and standard deviation, how do you calculate the probability of winning/losing x BB in n hands ?
To do that, first compute your average win on n hands (winrate x n/100 if winrate is in BB/100). Compute your SD for n hands (SD * sqrt(n/100) if SD is in BB/100). Your target x will be some SDs away from the mean (below or above), find how many. Then just look the probability of that happening in a standard normal distribution table, or use excel and input =NORMSDIST(number of SDs). This will give you the probability of winning less than x BB in n hands. If you're interested in winning more than x, do 1 minus that number and you will have the probability of winning x BB or more.
Let's take an example. Winrate = 5BB/100, SD = 60BB/100. What's the probability you will lose 5 buyins or more in 10k hands. Your average win would be 500BB for 10k hands, and your SD 60*sqrt(100) = 600BB. Losing 500BB would be 1000BB below the mean, that is -1.67 SD. The probability you lose that amount or more is thus =NORMSDIST(-1.67) = 4.8%. That means that being what is considered a very good winner in that game, there is still roughly 5% chance you'll be down 5 buyins after 10k hands, while you should be up 5 buyins. If you're only a 2.5BB/100 winner, the probability shoots up to more than 10%. Yes, this game is tough.
Conclusion : combining winrate confidence and bankroll calculations
If you have made it to this point, you have either skipped to the conclusion, or you're pretty well versed in everything variance related. Notice how the winrate calculations are very useful for the bankroll requirements. Calculate the confidence interval around your winrate, at 98% confidence for example. There is 1% chance of a winrate below the minimum winrate you found to give you your observed winrate (1% and not 2% because there is also a 1% chance it was higher than the maximum winrate of the 98% confidence range). From there, you could say you're 99% confident your winrate is above that minium, and use that minimum winrate to calculate your bankroll requirements, for maximum safety.
Example :
Desired risk of ruin : 0.5%
Winrate in PT : 7BB/100
Standard deviation : 60BB/100
Sample size : 100,000 hands
Confidence interval at 98% = 2.33*SD/sqrt(sample size/100) = 4.4 BB/100
-> Winrate between 2.6 and 11.4 BB/100
-> Winrate higher than 2.6 BB/100 at 99% confidence
Bankroll at 0.5% RoR = -ln(0.005)*60*60/(2*2.6) = 3668 BB = 7336 big blinds = 73 buyins
Bankroll at 1% RoR = -ln(0.005)*60*60/(2*2.6) = 3188 BB = 6376 big blinds = 63 buyins
Same with a standard deviation of 45BB/100 instead :
Winrate higher than 3.7 BB/100 at 99% confidence
Bankroll (RoR 0.5%) = 29 buyins
Bankroll (RoR 1%) = 25 buyins 2+2: Building a BR for Newbies (2005)
(see CardRunners articles below) MTT and SNG
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Pocket 5s
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The following guidelines will assure with a high confidence level that you never go broke if you are +ROI in the games you are playing, and you exercise good game selection.
Proper Bankroll Management Minimums:
$65 - $1.10 STTs
$90 - $1.10 18-man
$130 - $1.10 45-man, $2.20 STTs
$210 - $5.25 HU
$215 - $3.30 STTs
$270 - $6.25 HU
$357 - $5.50 STTs
$416 - $3.25 45-man
$420 - $10.50 HU
$422 - $6.50 STTs
$440 - $2.20 MTTs, 180-man
$495 - $3.30 90-man
$585 - $6.50 18-man
$715 - $11 STTs
$780 - $12 STTs
$820 - $21 HU
$832 - $6.50 45-man
$880 - $4.40 MTT, $4.40 180-man
$990 - $11 18-man
$1040 - $16 STTs
$1080 - $12 18-man
$1100 - $5.50 MTTs
$1300 - $6.50 MTTs, $12 27-man, $20 STTs
$1430 - $22 STTs
$1440 - $16 18-man
$1530 - $12 45-man
$1560 - $24 STTs
$1650 - $11 90-man
$1755 - $27 STTs
$1760 - $8.80 MTTs
$1980 - $22 18-man
$2100 - $52.50 HU
$2145 - $33 STTs
$2160 - $24 18-man
$2340 - $36 SNGs
$2400 - $11 MTTs
$2430 - $27 18-man
$2470 - $38 STTs
$2600 - $12 MTTs, $12 180-man
$2970 - $33 18-man
$3300 - $16.50 MTTs
$3320 - $26 45-man
$3420 - $38 18-man
$3450 - $27 45-man
$3570 - $55 STTs
$3900 - $60 STTs, $26 90-man
$4200 - $22 MTTs, $22 180-man
$4250 - $105 HU
$4860 - $38 45-man
$4875 - $75 STTs
$4950 - $55 18-man
$5400 - $60 18-man, $27 MTTs
$6600 - $33 MTTs
$7660 - $60 45-man
$7800 - $39 MTTs
$8250 - $55 90-man
$8500 - $210 HU
$11000 - $55 MTTs
$12000 - $60 MTTs
$20800 - $109 MTTs
$43000 - $215 MTTs
$106000-$530 MTTs
Clarifications:
- For Double or Nothing SNGs, use the HU guidelines.
- For MTTs with less than 150 players, use the 90-man guidelines.
- If your favorite game is not found on here, simply multiply the buyin by 40 for HU, 50 for FTP's Matrix SNGs, 65 for STTs, 90 for 18-20 man, 108 for 27-man, 128 for 45-man, 150 for 90-man, or 200 for 180-man or MTTs and add it to the list!
- For satellites, to determine how many buyins you need, use the formula (2000/x), where x is the % of the field that gets paid. For example, if a satellite tournament pays 20% of the field, then (2000/20) = 100, so you need 100 buyins.
- I will be crossposting this on my blog here so if you ever want to reference this, that's the easiest place to find it!
- These buyin recommendations are very conservative and are intended to ensure that you make consistant money while your risk of ruin is extremely minimal. It is made for professional players who cannot afford to replenish their bankroll. Recreational players may feel free to cut these recommendations in half.
- Satellites for must-play tournaments should only be played if you have enough in your bankroll for the target tournament, and you have an edge in that target event. There is an exception to this rule, below.
- I didn't include any game with higher than a 10% rake, because I feel that those games are ripoffs.
- If you are feeling good, don't play too far away from your highest allowable game. For instance, if your bankroll allows you to play $22 SNGs and you are playing $11 SNGs, you are not allowing yourself to make enough money.
- If things have been rough lately, or you have lost confidence, there's no need to play at your highest allowable level. Get back that winning feeling by dropping down, and scoring some wins. You'll still be working towards moving up. |
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| Last edit: 05/06/2009 16:44 |
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hoylemj   United States. May 27 2009 13:53. Posts 840 | | |
Razz
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Guides and Help:
Listening's Razz Blog+ Show Spoiler +
Razz Math+ Show Spoiler +
Addenum+ Show Spoiler +
Absolute & Relative Hand Strength
Your Absolute Hand Strength Rating ( AV for "absolute value" ) is a way of measuring your three cards against any other three cards, without regard to any other factors. It’s as if you put two sets of cards into a simulator with no dead cards. You have to calculate the AV to get your Relative Hand Strength Rating. ( RV for "relative value" ) RV is a way of estimating how well your hand will perform against other hands in an individual game.
By itself, the AV doesn’t tell you much about the playability or expectation of success for your hand.
Absolute Value Rating Guide:
- A-5 = 2 pts each
- 1 pt bonus for any two-card combination of A, 2 or 3, and 2 pts if you have all three cards.
- 6 = 1 pt
- 1pt for either a 7 or 8 (7 and 8 = 1 pt)]
- -1pt for a 9
- -2pts for T-K
A23 has the highest possible AV: 8. 2 pts for each wheel card = 6, +2 pt maximum smooth hand bonus = 8. Compare to an average 5 pt Razz hand like 257: 2 pts for each wheel card = 4 +1 pt for the 7 = 5 Put these two hands raw into a simulator and the A23 is ahead 55.2% to the 275 's 44.8%.
An AV of 4 is usually playable, a 5 is a decent Razz hand. A 6 is very good when it’s A52 and just OK when it’s A28. But an OK (A2)8 is not as good as (A8)2. And our A23 with dead cards of 5 J 7 4 Q 8is not as good as 257. Which is why we need Relative Value Hand Rating (RV).
Relative Value Rating Guide: - Add 1 point if your doorcard is A-4.
- Subtract 1 pt if your doorcard is 7 or 8.
- Subtract 1 pt for every dead card on the board A-8. “Dead card” here meaning any card you don’t have in your hand but would like to.)
- Add 1 point for every pair card on the board below 9.
- Add 1 pt if you are in the Cut-off or in steal position.
There is a kind of equity tug-of-war between absolute and relative hand value. To illustrate, let’s see what happens on 4th when the A23 goes up against the 257.
(A2)3 is far ahead of (25)7 in absolute terms, more than 10% ahead. To represent strength in relative terms, the board in this example contains two pair cards for the 257 (5 and 7), two cards dead to each (8 and 4), plus two bricks (Q and J):
3rd Street: Q 8 4 5 J 7 (A2)3 48.75% (52)7 51.25%
Let’s say you have the A23 and limp in for deception. If the xx7 completes and the 4 folds, will you raise with the “better” hand? Hand rating helps you decide. Your 8pt AV, now has a RV of 5. It’s just a decent starting hand, which means it wasn’t strong enough to limp for deception or to raise a completion for value. But what if you completed originally, and the xx7 raised you? If you put your opponent on a decent starting 5, you can see he has 1 pair card in the 7. If he is raising with the 7 in the door, you can reasonably suspect he has at least one more pair card, or, he is perfect in the hole with A2, or almost perfect with 23. You can consider the hands about equal and call. You still maintain some deception, but you don’t bloat the pot with what is, in fact, a nice but not great hand.
But you still have a hand with an AV of 8. It’s on later streets that this power will have the most influence. Just looking at a few 4th street possibilities:
You catch the lowest brick, he gets the highest good card:
..........................................(A2)3T 31.86 (25)78 68.14
You both catch equally poorly:
..........................................(A2)3T 50.81 (25)7T 49.19
You both catch equally well:
..........................................(A2)36 57.83 (25)76 42.17
How did you pull ahead, even by a narrow a margin, when you were behind on 3rd and neither of you improved over the other with the T, or get so far ahead when you caught the same good card? (note that good card was "neutral" - it was not a board upcard and neither player had one) That’s why you get a smooth hand bonus, because when you are drawing to equal high cards, the smoothest hand often has a huge advantage, big enough to balance out the bad upcards. But you must be equal to or ahead of for that influence to work, if not:
You catch a brick, he gets a lower brick:
...........................................(A2)3J 41.28 (25)7T 58.72
You catch well, he catches better:
...........................................(A2)38 34.65 (25)74 65.35
You would also expect that if you are both drawing to the same 7, your A23 would be far ahead. But, if you each catch a card that the other already has, the A23, while ahead, doesn’t exactly have a monster lead, because of the poor board and lowered RV: (A2)37 52.52 (25)73 47.48
The real power of dead cards can be seen when the A23 catches a 7, a board dead card, so good for him, but the 257 catches a 4, a 3rd street dead card for both that takes away another chance for the A23 to obtain it: (A2)37 49.47 (25)74 50.53
Our A23 is the “better hand” on 4th: 732A beats 7542. But Razz is a five-card game and because another of our cards went dead while our opponent improved with a premium card we need, we are behind. Perhaps only marginally, but with “perfect” cards, still surprising. And, we are ripe for a huge suck-out. Who’s jamming 4th with 7-perfect? Who’d flat call with 75? Even if our opponent has (A2) in the hole and some of the same limitations we have, simply by virtue of getting a premium card paired on the board that we need, he is still, by the slimmest possible hair, ahead: (A2)37 49.99 (A2)74 50.01
Your strongest hands have both high AV and RV ratings. The hands that often lead you into putting in a lot of bets and losing on later streets often have high AVs but low RVs. It's too easy to fall in love with a three-wheel hand that is really very dead.
Hands that can lead your opponents to put in more bets than they should have average AVs but very high RVs: something like (A3)7 that becomes an 11 pt RV hand can often lead a (45)6 right to the river even when he ends up with (45)639J against your (A3)7252 because he can see your "worst" card is higher than his, even though his hand was very dead on 3rd and decomposed on 6th. Part 1:+ Show Spoiler +
I thought in the spirit of the Holiday Season, I’d include a bit of a gift for you this month: a hand rating system. While “poker math” works in any form of poker, calculations are only as good as the precision of the information used in a formula. And Razz is probably the most difficult game in which to get any kind of precise idea how your starting hand will fare by the river. During a razz hand, we need to have an idea of our hand’s strength on 3rd, keep track of the dead cards, re-assess on every street in terms of cards out and opponent’s behavior. Otherwise, our judgment about our equity will be based on very imprecise information.
All of that is tough to do in a few seconds between streets in online razz and is just what a hand rating system helps us do. It’s also tough to fit such a lot of info into one article. I’ll be giving you the basics of the system through 3rd street here and the methods for continuous assessment through the other streets next month.
We also need a hand rating system because:
(in) ... a razz hand where we don't have the extra calling incentive of being the bring-in... If there are normal sized antes in the pot and you start off with three cards to a 10 against a raiser who has three cards to a 7 or better, you would be +EV if you called your opponent's raise and we could stop the betting there and run the cards out.
However, if the betting is allowed to continue and you catch equal with your opponent (let's say you each catch a good one and a bad one on the next two streets), you will be in a situation where it will be right to call him on sixth street if you both catch comparable cards again, even though you are still behind. It was probably right to call him on fourth and fifth street also, even though on each of these three streets you have been calling dollar for dollar with an inferior hand. Your calls are mathematically correct because you are getting good enough pot odds from the money already in the pot.
Overall, it is a losing play to cold call a competent opponent who raises with three low cards in razz when you have three to a ten. The initial call of the opening raise set you on a course of throwing good money after bad.
Barry Greenstein (from Poker Road forum thread Math Discussion About Preflop Odds....
If it can be a losing play to call when it is +EV to call, we have to look for alternate ways of assessing the value of a hand. Sometimes you’ll want to call with a Ten against someone playing xx7. You don’t always have to fold 4th if you brick, or only call if the pot is raised. You don’t even have to always fold two bricks on 5th. Sometimes calling in marginal or even obviously behind-at-the-moment situations is a good idea. I’ll be exploring these concepts in depth in future articles. Right now, you need the tool that helps you know when these situations arise and when your hand has just gotten so far behind, folding is your best option. You need a tool that tells you when that three-card 7 becomes unplayable on 3rd street, even though the pot odds are favorable.
Hand Rating Systems: Introduction
Every player rates their hand, instinctively or purposefully, whether informally or with a structured set of guidelines. Some players are either so experienced or naturally talented they can tell at a glance the likelihood of being behind or ahead and by how much. Few of us are that talented, certainly this writer isn’t. Like many others, I developed a rating system; mine is tailored to online time-pressured play. Over time, you may wish to add to it or change it to suit your own game. For instance, you might decide to add a point or two whenever you are in a hand with a player you know to be loose and a calling station, so that on later streets you will call down more lightly. Conversely, you might decide to subtract a point if in a hand with a very tight player. (For an explanation of Absolute and Relative Hand strength, see this blog entry.)
The value of that kind of adjustment and the value of the elements you’ll read about here is: you don’t have to decide if the sometime bricker has paint in the hole, you can simply adjust the value if your hand upward. You don’t have to guess if that tight player paired on 5th, you can adjust your hand value. As the value of your hand changes, you can use that to decide to make a loose call or fold a made 7.
System Limitations
This system is a streamlined tool designed to balance ease of use with reliable probability. However, in play we all use many non-quantifiable factors: player reads, character of the table generally, table image. You have to build your own toolbox, and a hand rating system is a very good tool to have. But it is only one and is best used in conjunction with others. (Scroll to bottom if you want to see a simple chart of the System before reading the explanation.)
Hand Rating Elements:
3rd street: Absolute value/Relative value, Position, Betting behavior
- Every hand has intrinsic or AV: Absolute Value (A23 is better than 579) and RV: Relative Value3 (457 is not as good as 268 when the other upcards are: K 2 2 6 A 8). Both kinds of value need to be accounted for.
- Position makes some unplayable low-rated hands playable as steal hands or even steal defense hands. Later position on 3rd street also gives you a better chance of coming in unraised and being heads-up, which makes some marginal hands playable.
- Betting behavior changes the strength of your hand. (27)5 has a decent AV, but it’s a good average hand unless an xxA raises and a xx3 reraises. At this point it might be unplayable without strong support from the board reflected in a strong RV number. But if an xx7 limps, the (27)5 increases in value on an average board.
4th – 7th streets: Cards Obtained, Cards Dead, Pairing Possibilities, Betting Behavior
* Cards Obtained: do they help you or hurt you and how much?
* Cards Dead: do they help or hurt your opponent and how much? Do they help or hurt you?
* What are the Pairing Possibilities?
* Betting Behavior is rated in terms of expected action based on exposed cards and previous action relative to their actual behavior.
All Streets: Information 1 & 2, Number of Cards
* Information 1: Your hand increases in value if the absolute value is hiddInen and decreases if exposed. I.e., (28)5 has more value than (52)8. In this case, value relates to the amount of information your opponent has about your hand.
* Information 2: Transient or absolute boardlock. If you complete with (74)2 and are called by xx8, you have a transient boardlock. It’s “transient” because it can disappear with the next card: (74)28 vs xx85. While it is possible your opponent called with a 7 in the hole and you still technically have boardlock, your information advantage has disappeared. Absolute boardlock, which cannot be reached until 5th and usually is not until 6th, occurs when you know no card your opponent can catch will beat you. You are theoretically boardlocked when no card you can catch will beat the hand you have put your opponent on. Note that boardlock situations don’t occur with every hand.
* Number of Cards. But – doesn’t everyone get the same number of cards? Not for our purposes. While we’ve all gotten to the river and won with paint cards or even a pair on occasion, on early streets where there are more chances to improve, any card T-K is considered to have no showdown value and be a blank. Rarely on 3rd street will a “two-card” hand rate highly enough to be playable. By 5th street, some boards will come so rough for both players, that a T or J becomes playable.
We’ll only be dealing with the 3rd street and “all street” elements here. The 4th – 7th streets information will be in Part 2. This still seems like it would be very complex to track; and it is without some help. The explanation of this system will also seem complex. After I go through the explanation, there are simple charts included at the bottom here. You can refer back to the body of the article if you don’t understand why some values are assigned. Doing it is simpler than reading about it.
Assigning the Values
To keep this simple, I only use the numbers 0, 1 and 2. At the table, the first thing to determine is if you have a playable hand. I’m going to by-pass the situations where the board is all paint and you have (TT)8 or (23)Q and complete. I’m also not incorporating being the BI into this system. When to call as BI is another article.
#1 - Determine if you have a playable hand. You are not playing two-brick hands. Don't bother to count them. If you have KKA and it folds around to you in the cut-off and the BI has a paint card, you can complete to pick up the antes. Other than that, if iour hand has two of the following: 9,T,J,Q or K, just fold it.
#2 - Get into the habit, as soon as the cards are out, of putting every upcard below a 9 into the chatbox composing area. You do this so that if people fold quickly, you still have the information to assess your hand. Keep them there throughout the hand.
#3 – Determine Absolute Value:
Playable hands begin with a value of 0. Add 2 pts for every wheel card and 1 pt for a 6. Add 1 pt for a 7 or 8, whether you have one of them or both. That means (87)A is, at this moment, a 3 pt hand. This becomes a quick determination: you know whenever you see two wheels you have 4 pts and unless there is a 9 or above, a 5 pt hand. (47)6 is a 4 pt hand: 2 pts for the wheel card 4, 1 pt for the 6, 1 pt for the 7.
A 9 is worth 0, if you have a T subtract 1, paint card, subtract 2. (AT)2 is a 3 pt hand. (93)4 is a 4 pt hand.
Smooth hand bonus: Add 1 pt if you have two of the following cards: A, 2 or 3. (37)2 is a 6 pt hand: 2pts each for the 2 and 4, 1pt for the 7, 1pt for having the 2-3 combination.
Having the three “perfect” cards, A23, is a 2 pt bonus and an 8pt absolute value hand: 2 pts for each card, 2 pt smooth hand bonus. (AT)2 is a 4 pt hand with the bonus.
Briefly:
* A-5 = 2 pts each
* 1 pt bonus for any two-card combination of A, 2 or 3, and 2 pts if you have all three cards.
* 6 = 1 pt
* 7, 8, or 7 and 8 = 1 pt
* 9 = 0
* T = -1
* J-K = -2
The sum of these steps gives you the Absolute Value of your hand. The same AV doesn’t mean the same playability: Rough hands with high cards like 7 and 8 don’t play as well as smooth hands or simply lower high card hands. An AV of 5 is good, a 4 is marginal, 3 or less is in very serious need of board support to even think of being played. However, you can’t determine the playable value of the hand until you calculate RV. So, take the number you got here and then do this:
#4 – Determine Relative Value.
* Add 1 point if your doorcard is A-4.
* Subtract 1 pt if your doorcard is 7 or 8.
* Subtract 1 pt for every dead card on the board A-8. (“Dead card” here meaning any card you don’t have in your hand but would like to.)
* Add 1 point for every pair card on the board below 9.
* Add 1 pt if you are in the Cut-off or in steal position.
At this point you’ll decide whether to enter the pot. I like to have at least 5 pt hand, which I consider a good average razz hand. (57)2 on a K 2 J (57)2 8 9 6 T board is a nice 5 pt hand. The choice to enter the pot is always subject to the board conditions, actions of other players, and other factors. Here are examples of 0 pt hands: one playable, the other not.
xxTBI...(5A)7CMP...xx3...xx6...xx3...xx4
The above hand is 0 pts because you get 2 each pts for the A and 5, 1 for the 7, subtract 1 because the 7 is in the door and subtract one for each of the four dead cards. I would complete-in with this because the hand is too strong in Absolute Value (AV5) to fold but too weak in Relative Value (RV0) to limp. I would be hoping for a lot of folds and to be HU. If there is a raise and reraise, I’m folding right here. I already know I am folding a 4th street brick to a bet.
xxKBI...xx6CMP...(78)6FLD...xx2...xxJ...xx5...xx7...xx5
Note the differences between this hand and the previous one: the first had an AV of 5 and became a 0 pt hand in the relative portion of the assessment. This hand was only 2 pts to begin with. Unlike the first hand, we are not UTG, and someone has completed-in before us in Early Position. This hand cannot call a completion. Even without the bet, this hand can’t complete-in on its own, or limp in against this board. The other difference between the hands is how smooth the first hand is in relation to this roughest possible 8, which has no direct competitive value against another 8 or 7. On a board like this, it’s a steal hand and nothing more. Just fold. A good rule of thumb is: do not enter a pot with a hand that didn’t have an AV of at least 4, or any hand with a negative RV.
If it seems as if doing the AV and RV calculations is too complex, it really isn’t because after you’ve done it a few times, you’ll start to do them almost at a glance and pretty much at the same time. The last thing you do on 3rd street, is adjust your RV for the actions of the other players:
#5 - Calculate for 3rd street action:
* One or two limpers, +1 pt per limper.
* If a third player limps in, -1 pt.
* Early Position completion –1 pt.
* Earlier Position completion and raise -2 pts.
* You complete and get raised - 1
* Completion from steal position, +2.
* For every player who comes into the pot in any fashion with a doorcard higher than your highest card, +1. (You: (64)2 Opp: (xx)7. Add 1 pt.)
* +1 if an opponent flat calls a completion with a wheel or 6 in the door
* +1 if Heads-up.
If you drop below 4, consider folding. Dropping below 0 is generally an auto-fold. But the value of calculating for 3rd street action is less about what to do on 3rd and more about what to do on 5th or later. When you are faced with a marginal call on 5th - say you have (57)36J against xx547 – if your opponent raised from early position you will have accounted for that and your hand will be weakened so much by the J that you’ll be more inclined to fold than call. The question here is: what’s the likelihood if I make this rough 7 it will be any good? But if your opponent limp/called, your hand will be stronger, and you’ll be more inclined to call: in this case the question being: what is the likelihood he has an 8 in the hole or an outright brick? As we’ll see in Part 2, by doing this adjustment on 3rd you have much better information later on, especially in multiway pots.
The sum of these 5 steps is your hand value going into 4th street. Notice that with the system, you don’t have to decide if your opponent is stealing with a brick, you can simply adjust your hand strength. Again, this is a dynamic system, not static one. If the steal position player is very tight and is more likely to have a good three-card hand than not, don’t add the points. If you are in a passive game where everyone is limping even with decent starting hands, don’t add the points. Incorporate the system into the game you are playing at the time.
[[/u]
Using a Rating Systemu
You use the system to help yourself make decisions; the guidelines below are just that: guidelines. Try not to talk yourself into calling with a bad RV of 4 just because the guideline says that a 4 can call a completion. Some 4s, against some players in certain situations, shouldn’t. The system is most helpful in folding hands you are tempted to play that have little chance of succeeding, and entering pots with hands that are thought of as marginal, but have great board support and high Relative Value that you might otherwise fold. Hand rating on 3rd is least useful when you have a standard 5: an AV of 5 with two dead cards and two pair cards, HU with no reraises. Hand rating becomes less useful as the number of players shrink, by necessity, the amount of information available to you shrinks also. With 4 players or fewer, your AV is generally more useful than your RV.
Real Power
Perhaps the fastest way to increase your win rate is to lose fewer bets. A hand rating system is only as useful as the discipline you bring to its application. FOLD those weak 3rd street hands. A 0-3 pt AV hand will win on occasion, but that will just suck you in to playing more of them. Conversely, a hand rating system also allows you to stick with a hand you might previously have abandoned and give yourself more chances to win. Real power in poker comes from having more information and the self-control to make the best possible choice using that information.
AV (Absolute Value):
* A-5 = 2 pts each
* 1 pt bonus for any two-card combination of A, 2 or 3, and 2 pts if you have all three cards.
* 1 pt for 6
* 1 pt for 7 or 8. 7 and 8 = 1 pt
* 9 = 0
* T = -1
*J-K = -2
RV (Relative Value):
* Add 1 point if your doorcard is A-4.
* Subtract 1 pt if your doorcard is 7 or 8.
* Subtract 1 pt for every dead card on the board A-8.
* Add 1 point for every pair card on the board A-8.
* Add 1 pt if you are in CO or steal position
Player Actions on 3rd:
+1 for each limper up to two
-1 for third limper
-1 for limp/raise
–1 Early Position completion.
-2 Earlier Position than yours completion and raise
-1 You complete and get raised
-1 for every player over 3 in pot
+2 Completion from steal position.
+1 for every player who comes into the pot in any fashion with a doorcard higher than your highest card (You: (64)2 Opp: (xx)7 +1)
+1 if an opponent flat calls a completion with a wheel or 6 in the door
+1 if Heads-up
Guidelines:
[/b]AV 6 or 7[/b] is strong, 8 and up very strong.
AV 5 is a good, 4 mediocre, 3 or less, weak.
An AV 3 or less must improve to RV6 to complete-in or an RV5 to call or limp/call. It cannot call a raise.
RV <0 is an autofold, unless the AV was over 5. But it still is a likely fold.
RV 0-3 very weak hands, usually steal hands – when rough they are fold hands.
RV 4 cannot complete-in unless late position, can call a completion. Can call one HU raise if AV was >4.
RV 5-6 good hands that can complete-in and call raise, plays well multiway.
RV 7-8 Very strong hand that can limp/raise, jam or limp EP.
RV 9+ on 3rd, can call two bricks on 5th if opponent is still drawing or has made 8 or higher.
Part 2:+ Show Spoiler +
I said in Razzmath Part 1 we needed a hand rating system because: “If it can be a losing play to call when it is +EV to call, we have to look for alternate ways of assessing the value of a hand.” Here in Part 2, I am going to tell you how to use that system to identify those times when cold-calling an opponent on 3rd street with a T is so +EV, you shouldn’t pass up the opportunity.
You might wonder if you start playing Ts if it won’t just make you a “bricker.” Bricker is a term that I use to mean those who will play a brick indiscriminately if they have two wheels with any concealed brick. A “standard” bricker limps when they have a brick and completes when they have a three-card 7 or better. This player is often a calling station when they catch well on 4th and simple to play against since their hands are essentially face-up. An “aggro” bricker completes and sometimes raises when they play a brick, playing the hand as if they have (A2)3. While they often continue to play aggressively as long as they have any hope of winning and thereby get many opponents to fold better hands, they are also simple to play against once identified. Aggro brickers seem to be commonly afflicted with Fancy Play Syndrome and tend to play their true big hands very slowly.
But some players you might have thought of as LAGs or brickers, are actually smart experienced players who know when to come in with what seem to be very inferior holdings. One of the things you know if you have been playing razz for very long is that it’s almost impossible to show a profit playing only three-card 7s and hidden 8s. The hands don’t come around often enough and don’t always win. The antes and bring-ins soon turn a tight, solid player into one on a downswing. While that kind of play does work well for new razzers at low limits, once your opponents mark you as a nit you won’t get enough action on the good hands to make money when you will win. And, you’ll win less often as you’ll only be called by your opponents when they very good starting cards, themselves. But, show down (AT)248J3 against (34)587K5 and you’ll start getting plenty of action.
The Pro Poker Tools Razz Simulator shows that heads-up, absent any other information, AT2 is only 35% to win against 345. Seems like a lot of ground to make up. But if these hands are played from a board with dead cards: A,2,2,J,T,9, the AT2 becomes much less of a dog at 46% to win. And if the opponent happens to be playing (37)4, the brick hand increases to 48%.
Put into another perspective, HU, 245 is 55% against 765's 45%. How often are you folding 765 in full ring game even if you knew your WO had 245? That 245 drops to 52% when facing 465 at 48%. So AT2 on an extremely supportive board, heads-up, can be like playing 465 against 245. The difference is, you are playing it much more cautiously.
All Bricks are Not Created Equal
When you decide to play a brick hand, keep in mind that there are significant differences in terms of value among cards from 9-K. In the above hand, if we play a K instead of a T, the AK2 facing 357 with the same dead cards is only 39% to win. If we improve the brick one place to A92, against 357 with these same dead cards, the A92 is actually ahead: 53% to 47%.
I once did a study of 5K tournament razz hands and found that T high hands won at about the same rate as 8 hi hands. This doesn’t mean that a T as a starting card should be considered equal to an 8, by any means. But it does mean that T high hands prevail at the river often enough that there is a significant difference between a T and a face card as a brick.
But what if we don’t have an ace and a two, and instead have 4T6?
357 vs 4T6 64% - 36% (with dead cards 46KT4Q) 55% - 45%
This is the equity equivalent of the 245 55% vs 765 45% - but only an equity equivalent. That 64 in the brick hand will actually play more straightforwardly and profitably than the 765 - you'll fold the brick faster. If you catch a couple wheels with the 765, you are probably seeing the river and often getting beaten by a smoother 7.
If we give him a significantly better hand like 352, with the same dead cards, he becomes a 58% favorite. So whenever possible when playing a brick choose a spot where you have the lowest high card.
Razzmath = Numbers + Judgment
Looking at the example again in a board line:
Jbi/f ... Af ... Tf ... 2f ... 9f ... 573cmp ... 2f ... AT2cll
One of the reasons for the AK2’s relative strength is the 375 has no pair cards. You lose a great deal of equity if he has even one of your wheel cards. (A7)3 57% on the same board, heads-up with (AT)2, as opposed to 52% with (57)3. When you play you only see xx5, obviously, and you’ll want to put him on some kind of hand if you contemplate calling a completion if/when the last 2 folds. Here is another reason to put the baby upcards in the chatbox at the start of each hand. Here, you’d see he would have to have the case 2 to have a 2, and with two aces out, he is also unlikely to have an ace in his hand.
Playing this kind of hand isn’t for the newbie or undisciplined razz player. If facing a completion from either an ace or a 2 on this board, the AT2 is a fold. If you are not closing the action and there are babies behind you, this hand is a fold.
Converting our assessment from the simulator to the hand rating system we can use swiftly at the table, the RV for this hand is 7. (Link to charts at end of this article.) There are 2 pts each for the A and 2, minus 2 pts for the T = 3. You get a 1 pt smooth hand bonus for the A2 combo, a 1 pt bonus for the 2 in the door bringing the total to 4. You get 3 pts for pair cards, lose 1 pt for a dead card and add a pt for being last small card to act, making the Relative Value of your hand 7. This is a very nice RV as you’ll see in the chart below which indicates you can jam 3rd with a hand that rates 7.
But not this one. Razzmath is numbers PLUS judgment. If one player limps in, I’ll complete here. I will call one completer. I’m going to play warily, but I want my opponent to think I have a good 7.
Below are two board lines that include the starting hands of both players from the Summaries. Note the hand rating RV as compared to the simulator equity in each hand:
Kbi/f .. Af ... 3TAcmp ... Tf ... 428cll .. 3f ... 9f ...Kf
The RV for this 3TA is 4. The simulator equity is 46%.
Usually an RV 4 won’t complete-in unless in Late Position. In this case, the hand is completed as three-off steal hand as much as a playable heads-up hand. The player that sent me this hand said he wasn’t actually sure at the time if he wanted to play it or was hoping for folds, but he wasn’t calling any raises. I think, if it were heads-up, I would call a raise here. Because it was played at 5/10 where the players are expecting this kind of steal, and because they often raise with their own bricks to test your hand, I’d call. I’m also insta-mucking 4th if I don’t hit it well.
Notice something else: while the simulator puts the 428 hand at 54%, it only has an RV of 1. In relative terms, the brick hand is stronger than the three-card 8. For instance, on 5th street, the hands appeared to the 8 as: xxA57 to (42)8AT. The simulator tells us that the 458 will prevail about 8% of the time more than the 3TA if both hands stay until the river every time. Razzmath tells us much of the time players facing this or similar boards on board on 5th street, will fold.
I’m going to give you the results of this hand, because it directly impacts a later hand I’ll explain afterward:
WON: 3, T, A, 5, 7, 9, 6
LOST: 4, 2, 8, A, T, 4,7
The above hand was bet/called on every street. About ten hands later, the (3T)A player completed-in from steal position with (74)5 and was called by the same player with (8A)9. That player called him all the way down, including calling the river with T,9,8,5,A against a board showing xxA579x. Playing a few judicious brick hands when you have the reputation of being a tight, conservative player can turn opponents into calling stations.
Kbi/f ... 6f ... Af ... K72lmp/cll ... Tf ... 6f ... JA6cmp .. 8f
The RV for the JA6 is 3. The simulator equity is 66%.
This was a hand that earned the chatbox comment “moron vs moron.” (From the xx8 who folded.) When I got this hand at 2/4, I really wanted to play it. Anytime I have a two-card hand with two lower than 7 and three pair cards, I get interested. But the 8 made it a 3pt hand and I wasn’t going to call a completion. Maybe if it were a T high instead of a J … then the xx2 limped. I put him right on a brick, anything from 9-K, and that limp gave me an RV of 4. I really wanted to get the 8 and the BI out, so I completed. If the 8 had raised, of course I was folding. This is important. If you are going to use a hand rating system to play brick hands, you must develop the discipline to fold them at the first sign of 3rd street resistance or 4th street poor catches.
Obviously, I didn’t know I had 66% equity at the time. But even if he had the “best” of the cards he would limp with, a 9, I was still at about 48%. One question I’ve had asked is why a previous limper pushes hand value up? Can’t they be slow-playing a big hand? Sure. That’s why the system is a tool you use not a set of directions you follow. Player reads are another tool, and this player was fairly passive. Classic brickers who are also passive players are worth 3-5% +EV over time at the very least. This hand illustrates that idea, as he check/called this hand all the way down:
WON: J, A, 6, 4, 8, Q, 5
LOST: K, 7, 2, 3, 7, 9, Q
Using the hand rating system on 3rd street, you can start playing many 8s, 9s and Ts you previously were folding. You will also start folding some three-card "premium" hands you previously overplayed. Your task is to recognize what a truly premium hand is, and that is one with a high RV. This information simply allows you to put yourself into more situations where you can “get lucky.”
General Guidelines for Brickplaying
Low brick: 9 or T preferable
4+ pt RV
Heads-up, or likely to be
Having lower cards than your WO's upcard best scenario Dan Abrams - Starting Hands in Razz+ Show Spoiler +
Evaluating Starting Hands in Razz
The Two Plus Two Magazine licenses its articles from the authors only for a period of three months, after which their rights return to their authors. The following is the introduction to the original article. If you are interested in the full content, please contact the author.
One of the first questions to ask yourself when playing a hand of poker is "How good is my starting hand?" For razz this is easy, right? Since there is only one way a razz hand can have value (i.e. to be the lowest unpaired five card hand), then an A is always better than a 2. Likewise a 7 is always better than an 8, which is better than a 9, T, etc. From the point of view of the showdown, this kind of linear evaluation is true, but it's a long way from 3rd street to showdown. All three cards held on 3rd street will usually play when starting with a very good hand, but that's not true with mediocre or poor hands where your best two cards may be more important than your worst one. For example, while an 876 starting hand will win more than half of the time vs. a 92A, the same is not true for a JT9 vs. a Q2A (where the three-card queen is a 55/45 favorite).
Even if a hand is more likely to win at showdown, the goal is not simply to win the most pots but to maximize value in the pots you win while also minimizing value in the pots you lose. This means that other factors besides hot/cold pot equity have to be considered when looking for the true EV of a starting hand in razz. The ability to make a strong board or to win extra bets from implied odds also helps determine what constitutes a playable hand in razz. For example, an (89)T is a slight favorite heads-up over a (J2)A in terms of pot equity, but which would you rather play? Obviously either representing or actually making a strong hand with a rough three-card ten is impossible. In fact, the (J2)A has more pot equity when playing against a good starting hand like a three-card 8. So there is a clear edge to having the smooth three-card jack (especially with an A, 2, or other strong card in the door). It should also be clear that the difference between a (65)4 and (72)A is almost irrelevant since either one can make a strong completed hand or a scary board, while the two hands have virtually the same equity versus any range versus any range. Tourney Tips+ Show Spoiler +
The Razz strategy tips outlined below will help improve your Razz game in multi-table tournaments.
We suggest before reading these Razz tournament tips that you first read the Razz tips page for the fundamentals of Razz poker, these tips offer the basic concepts of Razz poker. You may also be interested in learning some HORSE Sit and Go Tournament strategy tips.
Playing Razz Requires Discipline and Patience
In Razz poker you need a tremendous amount of discipline on top of having a lot of patience. With patience it's just a matter of waiting for good starting hands. With discipline it's about knowing when to fold in marginal situations, avoid playing on tilt and keeping your ego in check. Making great laydowns in Razz, or for that matter any poker game, is essential to your tournament success. When you get to the middle or deep in a tournament it takes just a couple of "bad beats" to end your run and send you to the rails. So playing sharp all the way through is vital; you can make 200 great plays but it only takes a few bad ones to send you packing.
Playing at Your Best
Playing Razz poker also requires that you play at your best. Don't play a Razz tournament if you are emotionally or physically down. Playing when you are not at your best can end your tournament very early in the game. You also don't want any distractions if you are playing online, e.g. watching T.V., on the phone, etc. Razz requires that you focus on each given hand, even when you are not in a hand! Paying attention and making notes on the other players gives you that extra edge.
Razz Starting Hands
So what kind of starting hands are you looking for when playing in a Razz multi-table tournament? In the early rounds you want to play pretty tight, open a pot with no less than an 8 high and fold to any raise if your 8 high is rough, e.g. 2-7-8. Ideally you want to start with cards that are 7 or less. Patience really is one of the key ingredients to wining Razz tournaments. To be dealt seven high or better you'd be playing roughly 1 in 10 hands, and to be dealt eight or better you'd be playing roughly 1 in 6 hands dealt to you. See Razz Hand Probabilities for some Razz odds. So while the other players are playing hands like rough eights, 9 and 10+ high and you enter a pot with them with your smooth 8 or 7 high or better, then you are already ahead of them in the hand and are in good position to take their chips!
Waiting for good starting hands in Razz does pay off. Even if you portray a tight table image many players in Razz will still play with you with their marginal hands and wishful runner, runners.
In the middle and late stages you might want to lower your starting hand requirements to 9 or maybe even 10 high (played very cautiously), of course you'll want these higher cards in the hole to disguise your hand strength. Deciding to play these hands should be based on what your opponent's up-cards are. The reason why you may start off some hands with 9 or even 10 high is that these pots are already quite large due to higher bring-ins and antes, making these pots worth winning without contention. There are also fewer players involved in these hands because the bets are so large and for the short and medium stacks every hand at these stages could be their last! So play your 9 and 10 high if you have a decent amount of chips, otherwise stick with 8 high or even 7 high and better.
It's also important to note that if your up card is lower than everyone else's and you have one or two parts of decent hole cards then you'll want raise and try to win the pot right there. In this case you already know that you are ahead of everyone else's hands. If you get called then you can see what happens on fourth street to determine your next action. It is important to note that throughout the tournament the value of your hand is principally based on what the other player's up cards are showing.
I have won Razz tournaments by both lowering my hand requirements to include 9 and sometimes 10 high in the later stages of a tournament and I have also won tournaments where I never started a hand worse than 8 high (excluding stealing antes and other special circumstances) until it got shorthanded. For your first few Razz tournaments I would suggest playing tight and include staring hands that are 7 or better. By doing this you will gain much experience and a better understanding for tournament play.
Noting the Up Cards
Razz is a game of information. Your opponent's up cards can give you a lot of information about their hand strength. The up cards can also dictate if you should be in the hand or not, regardless of what you've been dealt.
As soon as the up cards have been dealt make note of them starting with the player's up card from the bring-in, then quickly view the other players cards clockwise from the bring-in. This will give you a chance to see the cards before some players fold them.
With Razz you don't have to remember every card that is shown, what you want to do is look at all the up cards and look for and remember the cards that you would need to help improve your hand. For example, If you were dealt 5 6 8 and you noticed that there are a lot of up cards that could have improved your hand, like A, 2, 3, 4, and 7's then you may want to think twice about getting involved in that particular hand. Or at the very least play your hand cautiously.
The more cards that you have to count the worse off your hand is. The less cards that you have to count the better chance your hand can improve.
Isolating the Field
When you are dealt a good starting hand then you want to raise the pot. If it was raised to you then you want to re-raise if you think it might get some other players left in the hand to fold. What you are trying to do with your raise and re-raise is to thin out the players and isolate the pot to one or two players. With Razz it's hard enough to keep improving your hand when you are heads-up let alone a multi-handed pot, regardless of how good your starting hand was. Once you get down to just one or two opponents then you can simply call if you are still drawing to a decent hand when your opponents still look good.
When to Just Call
Even if you feel you have the best of it in a particular hand and a player is betting into you and re-raising you're raises, it's best to just call if there are more than one opponent left in the hand. Your re-re-raise probably won't do much for getting anyone to fold and you can quite easily hit a brick on the next turn. Simply call and see what card comes up next to determine your next course of action.
Know When to Fold
Knowing when to fold your hand is vital to your tournament success. Basically anytime you think you are beat you probably should fold, but keep this in mind... The best drawing hand is a favorite over a made 9 high hand on 5th street and on 6th street the 9 low is now favorite. A made 8 high on 5th street is a favorite over a four card drawing hand.
Chasing for low cards in Razz is not profitable. Even if you started off with a dream hand of A 2 3 and you end up catching two bad cards in a row and your opponent caught good, you must fold your hand. Do not chase in Razz! Yes it hurts to see a beautiful starting hand like that go to the muck, but if it goes sour then you have no choice as the odds are against you now.
Razz is a drawing game and getting three good dealt cards is just the beginning of making a good hand. There will be many times that your perfect starting hand turns ugly, then there are times that it keeps improving! Be discipline and patient and the good hands will scoop you the big pots!
Stealing the Antes
Stealing the antes in Razz is more important in the middle to later stages of the tournament and can help build your chip stack a few chips at a time.
You can steal the antes by betting or raising the players who have higher up cards than what you are showing. There is a chance that their next card can be a brick and you are dealt good, a bet here will usually win the pot. You should only try to steal the pot when no one else entered the pot (excluding the bring-in).
Another steal option is when everyone folds and you are in late position with only the bring-in to your left. In this case you almost always want to raise the bring-in regardless of what you have in the hole. More often than not the bring-in will fold. If the bring-in defends and simply calls then you can see what happens on fourth street to determine your next action. If you improve and they don't, bet.
If the bring-in re-raises you then you should fold if you hold two bad cards in the hole. Call if you hold one good card in the hole and then see what happens on fourth street. If they improve, fold. If you improve, bet.
Making Player Notes
While you are waiting for decent starting hands you also want to pay attention to how the other players at the table play. Make note of what they started with and if they bluff a lot. If they weren't the bring-in and you noticed that they started with a hand like (A 8) 10, or (2 8) J then you want to make note of their questionable hand requirements. This will come in handy when you play a pot with them later on in the tournament, also, these kinds of notes really do help with your decision making when you are deep in a tournament and your tournament life may be on the line. Yes, players with less than perfect starting hand requirements do at times make it deep in Razz tournaments... and that is good for you! These are the players that you'll target as the tournament goes on. You'd be amazed on how many players go in a hand with less than desirable starting hands. Typically when players get involved in a pot with junk hands then overall they generally tend to play Razz poker poorly. They'll not just start with poor starting hands but they'll also call with mediocre hands and/or hope for miracle cards. These are the kinds of players that help good Razz players excel in Razz tournaments!
Slow-Playing
Slow-playing in Razz is generally not a good idea. About the only time you may want to slow-play or smooth call a monster hand is when you have the nuts (A-2-3-4-5) or second nuts (A-2-3-4-6) or close to it made by 5th or 6th street. In Razz this kind if situation can come up... you are dealt A-2-3; you slow-play or smooth call - the next card is a 5 - then you hit brick (high card), brick, brick! So by jamming (betting) the pot when you have the best of it gives you a chance to take down the pot before it even gets to the showdown. Keep in mind that in the middle and late stages of a tournament winning pots early in a hand can still pay off substantially because of all the high antes and bring-in already in the pot. You don't always have to win huge hands at showdown to climb up in a tournament. Winning small and medium pots here and there can offer just as good results as winning big pots that come less seldom.
Bluffing
In Razz it's important to bluff occasionally. Bluffing only works though when you have low up cards or you appear to be in a better situation than your opponent. As long as your bets represent a good hand and your opponent thinks that there is a chance that your hand is better then theirs then bluffing can work. Bluffing is used much more when it's short-handed play or when you are trying to steal the antes from the higher up cards.
A Chip and a Chair
Patience really does pay off in Razz even when you are the short stack. I've been in many situations where I was the short stack late in a tournament only to find myself right back in the tournament!
When you are short stacked the other players will be gunning for you. They will challenge you with marginal hands just to end your tournament life. Be patient and wait for 8 or better to commit your chips to. If you only have a few antes left then you may want to go all-in with a hand kike 10 high. By waiting for some decent hands even when you are low on chips will at least give you a fighting chance to stay alive in the tournament. You may need a little more luck in a couple more hands if you survived the first all-in, but if luck is on your side and you come into a hand with decent starters than all it takes is a few wins and you are right back in the tournament.
Final Table
Getting to the final table is always a great achievement, regardless of what game you are playing. When you get there you shouldn't really change your style of playing tight unless you are one of the chip leaders.
The chip leaders can bully a few hands here and there and when doing so aren't putting themselves at risk as opposed to the other players who have less chips and are looking to climb up on the pay scale. Be cautious though as all it takes this late in the tournament is a couple of losses and your once proud chip stack can easily crumble down.
If you have an average to lower stack size then I recommend that you keep tight, selective hands. This late in the tourney players can go out fast, and for every player that goes out before you do, you make more money!
Short Handed
I would consider short-handed play when there are four or less players. When it gets to this many players left you'll need to lower your starting hand requirements to include 9 and 10 high's. The high antes and bring-ins will destroy your chips and you'll be the bring-in more frequently. Of course whether your in a hand or not does depend on what the other players cards are showing.
Heads-Up
Playing Razz poker heads-up is very simple. If your up card is higher than your opponent's up card then you bet, regardless of what your hole cards are. If you get re-raised and you have two bad cards in the hole then fold. Don't chase when they look good and you hold a marginal hand. You don't want to give them more chips than you should be giving away in these marginal situations.
Online Razz Poker Tips
online poker tips Turn the chat feature off! You have enough to focus on.
online poker tips Activate the instant visual hand replayer tool. Having this feature ready in the taskbar gives you quick access to this invaluable tool that will help you make crucial decisions from players past hands. All the poker rooms we feature (PokerStars, Full Tilt Poker) include the visual hand replayer.
online poker tips Do not multi-table when playing in a Razz tournament. Razz requires focus and playing more than one poker game at a time will diminish your concentration level.
Good luck in your next Razz tournament and remember... play tight, patient, and disciplined! More Fundamentals+ Show Spoiler +
The Fundamentals of Razz Poker
The concept of Razz poker is quite simple once you know the Razz rules. In Razz, the worst hand wins. Although the concept of that seems fairly simple, there is much more to it and understanding the fundamentals of Razz is key to your success at the tables.
Playing Razz poker requires patients, discipline, mental focus, and an ego check. One must have these basic qualities to succeed; if you don't, then you may end up playing the way most other people play Razz... poorly.
When first playing Razz it may seem like a game of luck, after all, you are trying to make the worst hand. Although there is an element of luck (variance) in Razz, just like in any other form of poker, when playing correctly and mathematically then in the long run the results will be positive.
When you see players winning hands when they should not even had been in the hand to begin with, you can be be assured that these players lose in the long run. Don't get mad at these players, in fact, congratulate them for winning the hand. After all, these are the types of players we welcome and the reason we can profit from this game. No sense in getting mad at them and scaring them off. Make them feel as if they are playing the game well and keep playing your style and eventually you'll take their chips in a polite and friendly manner.
Razz can be a very frustrating game at times and that is why discipline is so vital in this game. In Razz you may have to wait for a while to be dealt a good starting hand, you may have to make a huge lay down after being dealt three perfect babies (A to 5), you may lose a hand with 6 4 3 2 A, and so on and so on.
Play Razz properly and you WILL profit from it. It is that simple.
Here are some Razz hands that will give you an idea of their strengths with two cards to come. You should also look at the Razz Starting Hand Strategy and the Razz odds tables to get an understanding of Razz starting hand requirements and some key hand probabilities.
Favorite to Win:
(The first two cards are the hole cards and the rest are the up-cards)
Underdog Hand:
(The first two cards are the hole cards and the rest are the up-cards)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Favorite to Win:
Underdog Hand:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Favorite to Win:
Underdog Hand:
------------------------------------------------------------------
The best playable cards in Razz are cards between aces and sevens. Eights are playable when using caution.
The Dream Hand in Razz:
The Wheel... the Nuts!
Top 10 Razz Poker Hands:
#1 - 5 4 3 2 A (known as the nuts, the wheel, the bicycle, or the bike)
#2 - 6 4 3 2 A
#3 - 6 5 3 2 A
#4 - 6 5 4 2 A
#5 - 6 5 4 3 A
#6 - 6 5 4 3 2
#7 - 7 4 3 2 A
#8 - 7 5 3 2 A
#9 - 7 5 4 2 A
#10 - 7 5 4 3 A
Razz Tips and Facts
Here are some key Razz tips that will help you along the way and separate you from most other Razz players.
The minimum dealt hand that you should be playing when your opponents up cards are strong is three low cards to a seven.
The minimum dealt hand that you should be playing when your opponents up cards are are marginal should be three cards to an eight.
Always be observant when the cards are dealt. Look at all the exposed cards and look for the ones that would help your hand. If there are many of those cards exposed then that is not good for you. However, if you don't see any or just a couple then that is potentially good for your hand.
Even if you are dealt three perfect cards, like A 2 3, and then catch two bad cards (bricks) in a row and your opponent looks good, then you should pass on the hand if bet to you. Hoping for runner-runner in Razz is not advisable as it rarely comes in and making these kinds of plays in the long run will make you a losing player.
If you are behind in a hand and don't improve by fifth street, then you should fold if bet to you.
If you caught bad on seventh street and are heads-up, you should call a bet if you have some possible hand of winning it. Usually the math dictates that you call and there is a good chance that your opponent may have missed as well and may be betting in desperation.
The best drawing hand is a favorite over a made nine high hand on fifth street. On sixth street the nine low is favorite.
A made eight high hand on fifth street is a favorite over ANY four card drawing hand.
Slow playing in Razz is not very common and not suggested. If you are heads-up and your opponent starts to check when in prior rounds they were betting and you have a half decent hand, then you should bet. Chances are they hit bad and they won't check-raise you. You can also bluff in this situation. If your opponent calls and catches bad on the next card a bet from you will usually take the pot down right there.
When playing against weak players it is very important to play fundamental poker, unless you know you have them beat. Do not try tricky plays on a weak player as they may call you down to showdown with almost any cards.
Although the name of the game is to play tight, it's important to understand that the value of your hand is principally based on what the other players are showing.
The name of the game in Razz is to wait for three low starting hands. Be patient and they will come. Once you are dealt these you want to jam the pot when you think you have the best of it. When you feel that you don't have the best of it then you must know when to lay down your hand or simply call IF you think you still have a chance at winning the pot. Razz Odds & Statistics: 1 2
Hand Reviewer
2+2 Razz - Mag forum
Mag forum: Razz
Heads Up
Razz Tournament Strategy - Bender
Razz play at the WSOP - Adams
Razz Tourney Strat - Huck Seed
Razz Win rates Omaha
+ Show Spoiler +
Wiki
PLO.com
Omaha/8 FAQ
Omaha Primer+ Show Spoiler +
Playing short-handed or heads up omaha requires some practice though, so i'd recommend you to play some at full ring game first and when you get the feel for it, move to less player tables. Many of the players in Omaha play it like Hold'em, which allows you to make easy money off them. With the following few tips, you should be able to average something like 10 PTBB/100++:
1. Only draw to the nuts. This is especially important in Omaha, although the emphasis isn't AS strong in heads up play, it's still important concept to realize that in Omaha, Reverse implied odds when drawing to second best hands can be huge and a lot more often than in hold'em, second nut draw is that bad end of it.
2. When you flop the nuts, like straight - have a redraw. If you flop the nutstraight on, say flushdrawy board without a redraw, you can be one of the following:
-Dead to a split in case someone holds the same straight with a redraw
-30-70 underdog against flushdraw & a set
-Slight favourite over set or flushdraw
-Massive favourite against a bad end of a straight (this is probably the rarest, but you commonly see it in the micro stakes)
3. Play hands that supposedly make the nuts. This is where your former Hold'em experience kicks in. You want to play hands preflop that will make nuthands (preferably with redraws) postflop. This means that having a suited ace is a bonus and having wraps (ie. 5678 or A567 w/ fd) are hands you're searching for. Big pairs are also good but MOSTLY FOR SET VALUE. You'll see people go broke with one pair all the time in the low stakes and it just makes you giggle. Hands like AT83rainbow or AK83 rainbow don't make a lot of winning hands so you can go ahead and muck'em right away. Also note that having more than 2 of same suit makes it more disadvantageous for the flushdraw - in some cases it can be good if you have 3 flush cards and a straight on flushdrawy board, but no nut-flush draw. Then you probably take someone's fd outs out.
Also notice that bottom or even mid-set isn't necessarily a powerhouse hand. It's very vulnerable, even against something like fd+two pair or two pair and a straightdraw and in case of playing against higher set - well, you know the thrill. And this occurs a lot more in Omaha than it does in Hold'em. In short-handed play, it's fairly easy to know where you stand and this is what comes with experience - having some hand reading skills from hold'em will definitely help you get started.
4. Raising preflop becomes mostly a position buying move. You're not betting as much value preflop as you can in hold'em and the bet size is limited. Raising up AAxx is just as correct as raising up something like 5678ds. Even on these stakes, people often assume you have AAxx after raising and it's easy to play against that. Also, when someone raises in micros, there's a fair chance he has AAxx and you can play accordingly - they're almost guaranteed to overplay it postflop. So your raising, besides getting the pot bigger, also becomes a move you wish to use to get a better position in the later streets.
It is said that usually reraising AAxx preflop isn't probably a good idea unless you can get 25% of your stack in with the reraise. That way you can push the rest in on flop, to minimize the advantage of your opponent knowing what you probably have. Either way, I do not know if this is true and I personally don't like to make big moves preflop since they're simply unnecessary in Small Stakes Omaha. If you can get AI with reasonable AAxx(ss or ds preferably), go ahead, but you can be as little as 60-40 (or was it even a bit worse) favourite in the worst case scenario.
5. Play position. This is very important in Omaha. You're very very often drawing so it's important that you can use your positional advantage to the maximum. You also play your opponents the more short-handed the games get. There are many nits in those games and unlike hold'em, even against amateurs, you will know where you stand most of the time. You have better control over the pot and can make them big when you have a big hand. Amateurs don't have this skill or luxury OOP so pay attention to this. Making the transition+ Show Spoiler +
In order to make the transition from NLH to PLO as painless as possible, I'm going to try to give you an idea of what constitutes a good starting hand and then give some pretty general pointers. There are some subtle strategic differences between the two games that I'm going to address.
The main concept that NLH players tend to neglect is that your four card starting hand is actually like having 6 hands in NLH, not two. For example, if you have JT98 (one of the best starting hands you can be dealt), you have the combinations JT, J9, J8, T9, T8, and 98. Any of these "six hands" could flop a strong hand or a draw to a strong hand. It's the fact that all of the cards in JT98 play well together that gives the starting hand its power. A hand like AcKd8s7s does give you two playable NLH starting hands, and to NLH players that may seem pretty good. The problem is that there are just too many of the cards in the hand that don't play well together.
For instance, K7 is not a good starting hand even in NLH. A7 is really just as weak. As a matter of fact, while AK is a very solid hand in NLH, it really isn't even that great to have in your PLO hand unless the A and the K are "double suited" with the other two cards. The main reason that AK is a good hand in NLH is that when you hit the flop with it you will have top pair top kicker. While TPTK is pretty strong in NLH, in Omaha, it's usually not even worth a bet.
By and large Omaha is a game about sets and flushes. Even when you hold top set, you have to be cautious if the board offers potential flushes and straights. AAxx is still a very powerful hand in Omaha, but you will usually have to flop a set with it to feel very safe. You can play any AAxx combination before the flop in Omaha; just realize that it isn't nearly as powerful a hand in PLO as it is in NLH. The other two cards are still very important, even when you start with an AA. The best draw usually wins in Omaha, but you should remember though that AA is the pre-flop nuts. Most of the time a hand that calls your raise when you have AAxx isn't much more than a 3 to 2 dog when the money goes in.
Starting with strongly coordinated hands is the key to PLO. You want all four of your cards to work well together. Most players consider AAJT "double suited" to be the very best starting hand. There are some top players who prefer AAKK double suited. Double suited means that you have two of one suit and two of another (AcKcAdK). I actually have to agree with the majority in that AAJT is my favorite starting hand in PLO. In reality, it doesn't matter which hand is stronger, you're going to play them exactly the same before the flop (see how much money you can get in). No hand really starts to be defined until the flop in PLO.
Tip 1: Only play the very best hands from up front. You really can't understand how important position is in Pot Limit Omaha until you've played it. Even NLH is a positional game, but playing in early position in PLO can really be a disaster. You cannot play mediocre hands from up front and profit with them in the long run.
Tip 2: Rarely raise from early position. You don't generally want to create large pots to play out of position in PLO. I can say, personally, I only raise UTG when I have an exceptionally strong hand, usually AAXX double suited or better. Even when I flop a good hand that is not the nuts, I am very reluctant to raise from out of position in PLO. Resist the temptation. After putting in enough hours you'll begin to realize the importance of this concept. It's difficult to put into words, but believe me when I say that all the top players understand it.
Tip 3: Rarely bluff. If you are the type of NLH player who likes to fire at a lot of pots and is often betting and check-raising with garbage, you'll have to learn to adjust or you will not be successful at PLO. This is simply not a game about bluffing. Your bets should be a mix of value bets and betting on the come (when drawing) but you should almost never bluff. The only possible exceptions come when you took the lead before the flop and the flop came out very uncoordinated. And even then I wouldn't bluff into more than one or at most two players. Making continuation bluffs requires exceptional reading skills, and I mean reading the board as well as the players. Whereas continuation bets are pretty standard in NLH, they should really only be attempted by strong PLO players.
Tip 4: Don't pay to draw to anything less than the nut hand. In NLH I will usually be willing to call a bet of ½ the size of the pot if I am drawing to a pretty good flush or straight. In PLO, I am much more particular about which hands I will chase. The first reason is, with so many cards out against you it is too likely that someone else is drawing to the nuts. The other, more subtle reason, is that you are unlikely to have a bet paid off if you do make your (non-nut) hand by someone with an inferior hand. I think we all understand the danger of making the second best hand, and the implications of making bets that will only be called when we lose. In fact, very often you will not be able to get paid on the end even when you make the nuts. That reduces the implied odds you have on a draw and therefore reduces the size of bet you can call when drawing to only a flush. Sometimes you will find yourself with top pair, or an inside straight draw, and a draw to the nut flush, giving you more outs than you generally have when drawing in NLH. For the reasons I just described and others, PLO demands a working understanding of pot odds and counting outs. Here's a rule of thumb: you typically need at least 13 outs to call a bet that's over half the pot. Calling a pot sized bet with 13 outs is about a break even proposition. I don't much care for break even propositions. I will only call a pot sized bet with 13 outs when I believe my opponent will pay off at least a medium sized bet if I make my hand.
Tip 5: Stay away from trap hands. Many hands like two small pairs or four running connectors (wraps) that are 4-7 or smaller look better than they are. I liken these hands to hands like KJ in NLH. The problem with hands like these is the enormous "negative implied odds". What I mean is that these hands will typically only win small pots and lose big ones, a losing combination. Just like when you play KJ in NLH and you flop top pair. The only way you'll get any action from a strong player is when your hand is beat. Similar situations arise in PLO when you flop a set with a starting hand like 7766. If the flop comes out T87, you'll probably have to go with it, the problem is that if someone started with two tens in their hand you're most likely going to lose a lot of, if not all, your chips. When playing a small wrap like 3456, even when you flop a draw, it's just too likely that you'll be drawing to the low end of a straight. Drawing to the low end of a straight is dangerous in NLH, but it is just suicidal in PLO.
Tip 6:Players new to PLO have a tendency to see way too many flops. With four cards in your hand, almost every hand will seem to have some sort of potential. I've even heard fairly strong NLH players say that you should play a lot more hands in PLO. That is very far from a true statement and it's also one of the main reasons that it is so lucrative to play the game against NLH players. Play tight. Sure, you are starting with four cards and could make a pretty decent hand if the flop comes out just right. Just remember that everyone else is starting with 4 cards as well, and "decent" hands don't win PLO pots.
My advice to anyone looking to add Pot Limit Omaha to your home poker games is to really try to absorb the information I just provided. Understanding these simple concepts alone will make you a solid favorite against your average group of No Limit Hold'em players. The game is a great deal of fun. If you introduce it to your "NLH buddies" they are likely to enjoy it. If you begin to study the game and they don't, I think you'll be surprised how easy it is to consistently beat them. If you've taken anything away from this article, I hope that it is how different PLO is from NLH, and how much that is misunderstood. Just read more, think more, and play more than your opponents, and you'll win more. Good "Luck!" Beating PLO25+ Show Spoiler +
I see it as a public service to the game (or at least to readers of this forum) to provide strategies on how to beat a standard 10c/25c PLO game. Here is my contribution, which contains advice I've picked up on this forum, and some of my own conclusions based on research and recent play.
By standard PLO25 tables and opponents, I mean the loose passive game most frequently found at FT, Stars, UB, etc. Basic characteristics: very little preflop raising, almost no re-raises preflop, 3-4 people seeing the flops on average, and not a lot of bluffing post flop.
Before I discuss strategy, to beat this game you need to understand fully how to play pot limit poker and be able to count outs and translate this into knowing how much you can correctly call. For example, if you only have the nut flush draw you probably shouldn't call a pot sized bet. Knowing implied odds will be a bonus that can win you some more money. Lastly, you need to be able to read a board cold and know what the nut straight, full house, etc is. These skills are by no means easy or automatic, and may take a while to master. Depending on your bankroll, PLO2, 10, or 25 is probably a good place to hone these skills.
Strategy.
1. Starting cards. Pairs above 10, straight cards should be 678 or above, and this includes when you have an ace high flush draw too. Play A678s, but not A854s. We are talking top 20% hands or so, and lists are available elsewhere.
2. Position. You pretty much only want to play your very best cards from the small blind. So look for reasons to fold here. Big Blind you will play often because there isn't much raising in these games. If you get into a game with >30 pfr, then this strategy doesn't apply. EP only play premium hands. LP you can loosen up a tiny, tiny bit, but don't over do it.
3. That's probably advice #3, don't overdo any deception or aggression. Do everything about 1/3 of the time that you would think is appropriate, i.e. bluff very little, play king high flushes very little, raise from SB with 789Tds. Deviate very little from correct ABC poker.
4. Raising. Minimum raise or 3BB from the button or cutoff with premium hands. You can do this from early position with premium hands only occasionally if you have opponents that will try and take any pot on the flop if it is checked to them. (These players will identify themselves very quickly.) Basically what you want to do is get your opponents who play 70% of their hands to commit money incorrectly.
5. Flop play. "Tighten up" is what someone advised on this board. Words to live by in a loose passive (preflop) game. If there are 4 ppl seeing every flop, then it doesn't take a genius to figure out that you need to hit a flop fairly hard.
I'm not saying you have to nut peddle, but it's pretty close.
6. Reading opponents based on their flop play. Much like small stakes no limit in a casino, you can never put an opponent on specific cards, just how much they value their hand. Of course you need to adjust this per each opponent, but this is very accomplishable. If you never see a villain play a single hand in the 3 orbits since you sat at the table and he reraises a full pot sized bet on the flop, you can be pretty certain he has the current nuts.
There is a lot of minimum and small betting on the flop; depending on the opponent, this might be flush draw or nothing at all, or the nuts. But each opponent is pretty predictable. If you find a table with opponents you can read, and they aren't loose and aggro, you need to find a new table. (How to beat maniac LAGs who don't know PLO very well or just want to dump their money isn't covered here.)
7. Chat. There is an inordinate amount of chatter that goes on at these tables. Often you can use this information to find out how good someone is, how well they know the game. Mimic the bad chat of bad players.
8. Mistakes. The basic strategy for beating this game is playing ABC poker waiting for someone to make a mistake. You'll have top set vs 2nd set. Someone will bet a flush draw, you'll reraise and they'll put themselves all in, they'll have a straight and you a flush, etc. This doesn't make for that interesting of a game, but I believe it is the best way.
9. Bluffing. You'll want to keep this to a minimum because many of these players will make bad calls (mistakes). You want them to call bad when they have a ten high flush and you an ace high. So how are they going to know when you run a naked ace bluff against them? Pick and choose your best spots to pick up an abandoned pot based on who your opponents are in the hand, their tendencies, your position, your table image, etc. Just don't do it very often.
Here are what my stats look like from today as an example of what I think you might expect for avg VPIP and pot sizes, and at any single table you should expect variation from the average. However, the strategy outlined here should provide less variance than playing more aggressively.
I doubt for an extended stretch that anyone could stay at 20bb/100. But I feel that researching, listening to people's advice, reviewing past hands, and thinking about what has worked in the past has led me (back) to this optimal strategy.
Another disclaimer, is that I'd never argue this is the _only_ strategy that works at these games. For example, there are certainly proven winners like The_Rempel who advocate more aggressive strategies. If you are a newer player, I'd certainly recommend trying your hand at a lot of different types of strategies. My ultimate goal is to be able to sit down anywhere at anytime at any game for which I'm properly rolled; identify a winning strategy, and then be able to execute it.
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I agree with the gist of your post, but here are some thoughts on where I deviate from your method (the following is based on my experience at full table PLO at PokerStars):
1) Pre-flop tightness. The key, I believe, it to be significantly tighter than your opponents. There's no need to drop all the way down to 20-25%, so long as you recognize when you're playing with a borderline hand. I also disagree with your advice about not playing A567s. I would argue that just about any suited ace with some kind of straight potential (even if it's marginal) is a solid money earner in position assuming you can limp (or call a mini-raise).
2) Something you didn't specifically mention: buyin for the maximum everytime. Your opponents will make some gargantuan errors so you need to take full advantage. This is particularily true at the nano-levels like 0.01/0.02 on stars where you can buyin for up to 250BB ($5).
3) Bluff sparingly, but semi-bluff in position at almost every opportunity. Here is one of my favourite plays at these levels. It works like a charm at PLO25 (not as well at lower levels because players are too dumb, and not at higher levels because players are too smart):
You flop the nut-flush draw on a board like Q76. It's checked to you and you bet pot from the button. Lots of nice things can now happen. Obviously, everyone will often just fold. More often though 1 or 2 people will call with straight draws and/or a weaker flush draw. If the board pairs on the turn, a half-pot bet will win you the pot almost all the time (the one exception being if it gives your opponent trips). If you hit your flush you will often get significant action from lower flushes and even made straights. If the turn comes a blank you just play poker. The beauty is that if they hit their straight they will often check to you or bet small (like 1/3 pot or less).
This play is one of the main reasons I like playing suited aces in position so much.
4) Second barrel with the naked A bluff doesn't work very often. Most of the time, this bluff will either work immediately or never. At these levels people who are willing to call pot bets on a flush board without the nuts are ridiculously stubborn. Use this to your advantage when you actually have the nuts.
5) If you flop the nut straight with redraws, play it as agressively as possible against most opponents. Most of the time they will have no redraws whatsoever.
6) The size of your opponents bets usually indicate exactly how strong their hand is.
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6 Max vs Full handed.
I was playing loose passi ve 6 max only, but I do believe the same holds true for 9 max since it seems about the same number of people see each flop. Full handed you might need a little bit better hands to proceed though.
PREFLOP TIGHTNESS
I agree with you about preflop tightness 30% would work, and I've done that before. The reason why I tightened up is that:
1. I am playing 4-6 tables at a time.
2. Playing more hands increases variance (for me), and often I start at 30 and drift to 40-50 especially if I have a mark in my site. So if I start at 20 then often I might move to 30. And I find that when I start playing 20-30% type of hands with danglers and low pairs, I start to get myself in trouble - it also leads to harder decisions, i.e. does this donkey really have top set this time? So in summary, I agree you can play at 30% and win, it just makes it more difficult and I have no information that it increases my winrate.
STRAIGHTS
I think I said not to play A854s. I would probably play A765s, but not 7652s. I really want to have 3 cards at top of 678, if you do this you are only giving up 3 nut straights (A-5, 2-6, 3-7). Again, this is probably a finer point, you are right you could make money wtih 765, but by not playing it how much money are you leaving on the table?
Also, I don't think I included to not push any flopped straights that have 2 flushes in them. In early position this is a check-call for me, and in position, I would call a raise before me or bet out if it is checked to me.
BUYIN
Buyin for the maximum is fine, but I see advantages to buying in for $10-15.
1. This allows you to let a LAG double you up. And then this might tilt him to get his money back, and he can double you again. Often they don't play well vs smaller stacks, they bet at some pot when you just flopped top set - and it "isn't that much more" for them to see if you have it or chase their flush draw. Often you can triple up in these situations.
2. Allows for easier decisions when you have less information on players.
3. Allows you to occasionally use Rolf's strategy if you have one player raising a bit.
4. If you start with $10 and double up in one hour, that's 20bb/hr, and >20 bb/100 which is enough.
But I think this is also a finer point and probably doesn't matter much one way or the other. Perhaps opponents will play more poorly when you are a medium stack or perhaps you will have fewer opps as a large stack but will score more.
SEMI-BLUFFING
Afer I posted, I was thinking "what did I leave off". I totally agree with you, if a pot is checked to you and you have a good draw bet it if you have fold equity. If you have less fold equity or you have checkraisers or you just have a flush draw, I think I just check behind or maybe a small bet (small bets are very frequent at this level so it won't look suspicious.)
SMALL BET MISTAKE
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6) The size of your opponents bets usually indicate exactly how strong their hand is.
100% true. Many opponents at this level underbet made (but vulnerable hands, like straights) and let you know exactly how good their hand is. It's ridiculous, but often minimum bet = pair or overpair, a little bit more means TTP or flush draw, etc.
To wit, I will not go after marginal situations, like going after JUST a flush draw when they bet half pot, but as you point out villains way underbet pot (like $1 into $5 pot when they are OOP) and you have a good nut draw or two. I have been taking the really good sales, and passing on those with just small marginal value.
Alternatively, every single time I have the nuts in position or out, I bet full value every single time. Unless it's something like a raised pot preflop, and 5 people see a flop and you are in SB, and you are 90% certain someone will bet behind you. Other than that level of certain, just bet away because this game is about them making mistakes and you want to make sure that when you are holding the nuts, their mistake is as large as possible.
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The primary problem with bluffing at PLO25 and lower is that players are so loose that 5 or 6 players will often see the flop and they're often willing to call you down with rather marginal hands. These two tendencies together make it difficult to pull off most bluffs often enough to make any money with them.
The following is not meant for PLO experts, who obviously know how to bluff effectively in PLO, but for low level newbies who would like to take advantage of the tendency of many PLO players to give you credit for what you're representing. Much of it is fairly basic "Theory of Poker"/game theory stuff.
NOTE: This is all off the top of my head, so it's probably far from complete. One of the main reasons I'm putting this out there is to hopefully get some constructive feedback.
The probability of a sucessfull bluff greatly depends on these factors:
1) Position
2) Number of players still in play and left to act
3) The texture of the board
4) Stack sizes of you and/or your opponents
5) Who raised pre-flop and your position relative to him
6) How you have played the hand so far (particularily on the turn and river)
7) Your table image and your opponent's table image
1) Position
The most basic bluff in PLO is a 1/2 to full pot bet when it's checked to you in last position on the flop. Another comon bluff is when everyone checks the flop and the turn comes up a brick. Those players in early position now have a chance to represent a failed check-raise attempt by potting immediately.
2) Number of players in play and left to act
It is important to realize that the chances of a bluff succeeding decreases almost exponentially with the number of opponents still in play. Also, if you're in middle to late (but not last) position, the reason no one has bet so far may well be because someone still to act has the nuts. Remember this whenever you consider making a bluff.
Bluffing is by far the most effective heads-up on boards where it's relatively easy for your opponent to give you credit for a superior hand. Flush boards and paired boards are usually the best. Also keep in mind that few players at PLO25 are sophisticated enough to try a bluff-raise (and even if they are, they probably assume you're not sophisticated enough to bluff in the first place so they won't try it very often anyway).
3) Texture of the board
When you bluff you're trying to represent a strong made hand. This works best when the number of potential draws is minimized. Probably the worst time to try a bluff is on a board like 589 with two suits. Someone will usually call you here so you will probably be forced to play it fast to the end hoping it will come brick-brick (and there aren't may ways you can expect two bricks to fall).
Another example of a poor time to bluff is on a paired board against many opponents. The odds that nobody has at least trips is much too small if you're against 4 or more players. However, this bluff works extremely well gainst 2 or heads up. The same applies to flush boards and (to a lesser extent) made straights on a rainbow board.
A related concept is betting scare cards (when a card comes that completes a flush, straight, or pairs the board on what was previously a straight or flush board). Since so many players (even the winning ones) play weak-tight ABC poker at these levels it is often fairly obvious when they're drawing and when they have a big hand. These same players also tend to give you credit for having all the draws covered. The primary defence against this bluff is to play well co-ordinated hands and bet your draws as strong as your made hands.
4) Stack sizes
Bluffs work best when everyone is fairly deep stacked relative to the current pot, but not so deep that they have excellent implied odds (or it's so cheap to call that they almost don't care). If there's a short stack at the tale (especially if it's you) bluffing loses much of its appeal.
5) Pre-flop raiser and relative position
The pre-flop raiser will often be credited for having AA/KK no matter what their actual tendencies are. If you raised without AA, it's often in your interest to play as if you have AA when flop suits a hand like AA well (i.e. an A high flop or when the board features low cards with a pair, like 733). Also, it's more risky to bluff after the pre-flop raiser has checked to you since someone one in early position could well be looking to make a check-raise.
6) How you're played the hand so far
It is absolutely vital that the way you've played the hand so far be consistent with what you're representing. This is particularily true on the turn and especially the river.
The Rempel recently posted a hand in which his opponent made the blunder of bluffing on a straight board when it was obvious nobody had the nuts. The mistake was that, given how he had played his hand to that point, it was obvious that he didn't have the nuts either. you can only get away with this against the most unimaginative of nitty players.
7) Your table image and your opponent's table image
For obvious reasons, bluffs work best if you have the image of being a tight player and you're playing against other tight players. The correct balance between bluffs and nut peddling is dificult to quantify. Probably the easiest way to identify if you bluff often enough (or to rarely) is to note those situations where you were tempted to try a bluff, but chickened out. If the ammount of money you would have won by bluffing more is significantly greater than what you would have lost then lean towards bluffing when you're unsure.
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"There's no doubt that this strategy will beat $25 games and like you said, there are other styles and other strategies that will result in winning poker. However, I think there are some points you make that are not optimal. It also seems like this type of play will not allow you to expand and grow as a player or win for anywhere near as much at especially as you move up in limits."
I disagree strongly that learning and implementing a winning strategy for beating a loose passive PLO25 game will prevent further growth of a player. Yes, the player should be aware that all games are not the same, and this basic strategy has its limits. But as long as you are aware that differences exist between games, then I don't see why you can't continue to learn what is needed to beat other types of PLO games.
"Here are a few points that stood out the most:
Starting cards - This seems way too tight, especially for 6max."
Playing tight will lead to fewer difficult decisions on the flop. Also, it should reduce the high variance associated with PLO cash game results. This is beneficial to the beginning player. Again, I want to point out that I feel that my instructions are aimed not for an experienced PLO player to beat PLO25, but rather a beginning-intermediate player.
"Position 'LP you can loosen up a tiny, tiny bit, but don't over do it.' - Again too tight, you can loosen up a lot in LP. This game is all about position - use it."
I think the best way to use position in these games is to build bigger pots when you have good cards in good position.
"3. 'bluff very little' - Well yes and no. Obviously don't bluff calling stations, but there are a lot of situations that you can pick
up the pot with a pure bluff. It's a pretty situational thing to explain, but you just have to pay attention. Don't check behind when you missed your draw only to lose to 2nd pair. If there's a 3way hand that goes check, check, check on the flop, then check on the turn pot it. Agression is good."
I agree 100% with this.
"Raising - You only mention the CO and button as spots to raise. Obviously, your pfr will be highest from those positions, but you can still be raising from other positions."
I think it depends on the table dynamics. With my strategy, I don't want anyone behind me in a raised pot, unless they will bluff at anything checked to them on the flop and will play big big pots postflop. 2+2 N00b thread+ Show Spoiler +
1) what's the difference between playing fullring vs. 6max?
In 6-max, the blinds are coming round much faster so you need to be prepared to play weaker holdings more aggressively. You are less likely to be able to get pots heads-up in a full-ring table so hands that play better multi-way gain more value (like suited aces).
2) How many buy ins do i need for omaha? when should i move up?
Omaha is a very volatile game where, if you are playing correctly, you will often get yourself in situations where you are close to 50/50 against your opponent's range - often a slight favourite. It is also a game that can be very tilting because the pots are much larger than in holdem and made hands are often less likely to hold up. This means that the variance can be pretty extreme. The number of buy-ins you need depends on a lot of factors including: your personal tolerance, your willingness to move down, your edge in the games. As a rough guide, 70 buy ins is a decent roll for 6-max with more probably being needed for heads-up play where the variance is greater.
3) what are 'good' stats for plo25, plo50, plo100, plo200?
There are successful players in omaha that implement many different styles and therefore can have strikingly different stats, which makes this question impossible to answer really. Tight-aggressive works for some people whereas loose-aggressive works for others. I highly doubt you will find any successful loose-passive players online though as aggression is key to winning,
4) how should i play out of position (op)?
Again this is a very broad question but in general, especially if you are just starting out you should not be looking to play marginal hands OP. Position is often said to be more important in omaha than in holdem because a free card can drastically change your equity and being in position presents a lot of good opportunities to steal pots when opponents show weakness.
5) how much should i open up my starting range preflop in different positions?
Again, very style dependent but no matter what style you implement you must be playing less hands out of position and gradually more as you approach the button with your highest VPIP being on the button.
6) how should i play from the sb, bb when there is a limped pot or raised pot?
In a limped pot, suited ace hands are good to complete with in the small blind as dominating other people's flush draws is a large source of profit. In raised pots you should be playing tight from the blinds.
One situation I like to play hands OP is when I have position on the flop on a raiser who habitually continuation bets (CB) flops. This way when the frequent continuation-bettor bets, you can check-raise your big hands and sandwich any callers that may be calling light due to his large CB%. These situations often occur when a player raises in late position, gets a call and you are in the big blind.
7) where should i sit when someone is playing very aggro at the table?
Try to get a seat to the left of an aggro player so you can reraise him with your good hands and try to get him to stack off with a dominated draw on the flop.
8) how many hands/hr do you get when 5 tabling 6max? what's the rakeback for various levels per hour?
Probably about 350-400 hands an hour on average. Rakeback depends on your site and deal.
9) how should i play AAxx when i miss the flop?
General advice in heads-up pots would be to fire a continuation-bet and take it from there. Don't be afraid to just check-fold aces sometimes if the flop comes really horrible and you are multiway. Having a good starting hand in omaha often does not translate to having a good hand on the flop.
10) what are the best books on plo?
For aggro 6-max online games I don't think there is any really good material out there in books.
11) what's the the best videos to watch?
Hard for me to comment because I have only seen cardrunners material but I thought Wazz's videos were good.
12) is a Hud available for plo?
I use Poker Tracker omaha with the Poker Ace HUD add-on. It works fine for me.
13) when is HEM Omaha coming out?
The beta is being tested right now... but I don't like it as much as PTO unfortunately - the stats are too big and cover stack sizes and bet sizes.
14) what are the swings like in plo?
Horrendous. Playing a loose-aggressive style 20 buy in swings are fairly frequent for me up or down. I have had 40 BI downswings and 50,000 hand break-even stretch although my win-rate hovers around 4ptbb/100 over almost 300K hands.
15) who is the best plo player in the world right now?
Benyamine has won $10 million in the high stakes games on full-tilt according to highstakesdb.com but whether that makes him the best or not is an issue that is open to debate.
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16) where should i sit when someone is playing almost every hand pre (a fish)?
if you are sitting at a table with some solid TAGS and a lagtard who is playing 80% of his hands preflop, there are advantages of being directly to the LEFT and to the RIGHT of the fish.
being to the LEFT - you get to act after the fish, but you are OP to everyone else at the table. If the fish is being targeted by the other players, ur going to be faced with lots of aggro play by the better players, which will make it harder for you to make $ at the table since ur OP to everyone else targeting the fish.
to the RIGHT - you get to act last after the fish, you are in position to the other good players at the table and you can better exploit the good players while getting the extra bonus of added $ to the pot from the fish. its also easy to play vs fish when ur OP since they usually call pre, call flop, fold turn - so just keep firing away once u isolate the fish and make some $
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dean-
these are all great questions- I think the 2 most common answers are going to be (1): "It depends on the player" and (2) "You don't need to be worrying about that yet." (Ooh, and there is also going to be: (3)- "always be thinking about equity"
Let's find out.
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4) how often roughly should i be cbetting HU, 3 way?
(1), mostly. But all the principles that apply at NLHE are still relevant here: consider flop texture, possible villain holdings and their likely responses, whether or not you (or they) could improve on various turn cards, etc.
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5) is it correct more often to bet when you think u have the best hand (for protection) relative to NLH, if it is, how far should i take this idea?
(3). Playing NLHE, it's easy to conflate "made hand" and "best hand", as well as "betting for protection" and "betting b/c you have the best of it", b/c these are almost always the same. Not so in PLO. There are certainly times when you will be doing what you describe- say you have top 2 on a drawy board and they quickly check/called the flop. A blank turn comes, they check again, and you bet for the reasons you describe. Other times, you might flop a pair and a big draw, think you have the best of it vs their range on the flop, and want to bet as much as you can. You aren't exactly "protecting" your hand, but you still want to bet.
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7)should my 4 betting range ever include anything other than AAxx?
Aha! This one is (1), (2), and (3). Mostly (2), though- balancing a 4-betting range is not going to be remotely necessary at plo100. But if you run into some guy who is 3-betting a ton, then I guess you could add some big rundowns if you wanted.
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8)100BB deep, how many BBs do i need to be able to get in pre to make 4 betting AA72 rainbow correct? (assuming 27BB isnt enough, right?)
(2), mostly- recall that there are sooo many starting hands in PLO that this specific situation (having the chance to 4-bet with crappy aces) will hardly ever come up. When it does, circumstantial factors (do you have position? what is villain's 3-betting range? etc) dominate and make it impossible to give any blanket advice.
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9)should i be flatting hands as strong as KKxxds IP since they play so poorly vs a 4 betting range, but 3 betting then flatting 79TJss for example?
Ya, that's not a bad idea. Flatting hands that play poorly vs AAxx (basically, hands with pairs or aces in them) is a good, simple (albeit conservative) way to balance your preflop game. Recall that you want to be 3-betting in spots where villain doesn't have AA all that often (say, from the button vs a CO open from a weaker TAG player), so you shouldn't be worrying constantly about what will happen if they 4-bet.
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c bet way less in PLO than in holdem. experiment with different bet sizing, hu and multiway. Play much tighter in multiway pots than in heads up pots. Board texture is super important in PLO, so pay attention to it. Dont chase non nut draws in multiway pots (heads up is a different story). don't raise/fold to a 3 bet preflop often , especially HU or especially if stacks are deep or especially if you are in position. Recognize when your opponent will show up with AAxx a lot (3 bets or 4 bets preflop are very very often AAxx), because if you are deep, AAxx is very easy to exploit postflop.
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I'll try to help a bit, my experience goes as high as 200plo w/ the majority of my play being at 100plo
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Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
nice thread.
questions:
2) How many buy ins do i need for omaha? when should i move up?
Depends on your tilt control/willingness to move down/how much money you can reload if you need it/variance of your style of play, if you want a quick answer it can probably range between 40-200BI.
4) how should i play out of position (op)?
Very vague question. But in plo, you have to induce a lot of things from villain IP to do, you can't just get called by an overpair when you lead/lead/lead a set or straight or something, board texture/villain AF/short term table dynamics enter into it a lot.
5) how much should i open up my starting range preflop in different positions?
Open very few hands from UTG, open/3b lots of hands from the btn. I think my btn vpip is close to 40-45 and my utg about 15 which I think is still too high
6) how should i play from the sb, bb when there is a limped pot or raised pot?
depends on your hand strength/multiwayedness/stack size/villain tendencies/board texture etc. Generally, if you have a hand you want to play in a limped pot you should lead the flop a lot of the time.
7) where should i sit when someone is playing very aggro at the table?
to his left. if you're on his left then you'll win the monies.
9) how should i play AAxx when i miss the flop?
depends. If multiway you can probably give up on a fair amount of reasonalby wet boards. Cbet dry boards though.
14) what are the swings like in plo?
You'll hear horror stories about people losing 50BI, but that's about as bad as it gets. Anyone w/ a reasonable sample has lost 20BI and 10BI swing happens every day or every few days.
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Originally Posted by JoeKing View Post
lets say you 3bet AAxx pf get called and the flop comes Q105ss you are out of position.
Is check folding here kind of standard?
How deep are stacks? If shoving gets it in, shove. If shoving leaves a PSB on the turn if he flats or you are very likely to be facing a check/raise if you bet I might check/fold or check/shove depending on villain.
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How should I start out at the micros (plo2) and what's a good win rate?
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Originally Posted by cocacolamandan View Post
I think that 49BB/100 might be sustainable at these limits for two reasons:
First of all, the players are very bad and very loose. Sometimes you even run into people who will stack off with any four.
Secondly, the stacks are deep. Typically you can only buy-in to cash games for 100BB. At .01/.02 players buy in for 250BB ($5). You can usually get all in with awesome equity at least once every few hundred hands.
To win a fair amount at this limit, all you really need to know how to do is:
1) Recognize when you have the nuts or a huge,huge draw and bet the pot
2) Fold non-nut hands if the pot gets big.
Other skills, such as small pot play and some sense of preflop hand selection help, but players with even a limited, basic understanding of these skills can win big. You can afford to spew during small pots for a few pennies, so long as you know to only play premium hands when the pots become large. If you bet your big hands, occasionally a hapless fish will reward you with hundreds upon hundreds of big blinds.
So, in summary, you can win with this strategy:
-Find active tables with lots of maniacs and fish
-Speculate until you hit a monster hand
-Play hands based on their strength
The nuts: Bet and raise the pot size as much as possible
Draws: If your draw isn't to the nuts, fold. You don't want to have a king high flush or a weak straight in a large pot. If you have a nut draw, calling bets is based on pot odds and implied odds. In general, if you have 8+ outs to the nuts on the flop, you can call a pot sized bet. On the turn, you can generally call small bets, but not large ones.
Strong hands that aren't the nuts (Like 55 on K752 or small full houses): These are the trickiest hands. A sophisticated strategy allows you to maximize your value and minimize your gains on these likely to be best hands. A safe (though not sophisticated) way to only play these hands for small pots. You're happy to play 55 on K752 for 30-40 cents, when you're likely a huge favorite. If the pot balloons to $3, fold if you're uncertain, because you could be making a huge mistake. When in doubt, fold. Remember, all you need to do to win is bet a premium hand into a clueless opponent while not being the clueless opponent yourself.
Other hands (top pair, overpair, weak draws, no pair, non-nut flush draws):
Check and fold. You don't want to spew away chips on hands that are unlikely to win.
This is far from an optimal strategy, but
1) It's simple
2) It wins at a reasonable rate (10++BB/100)
3) It's very hard to mess up
My win rate at .01/.02 is pretty high (over 100+BB/100) (pretty skewed from a recent $40 pot) and consists of this basic strategy of peddling the nuts mixed in with more sophisticated preflop and small pot strategy.
Good luck!
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Originally Posted by elstunar View Post
How often do you guys mix up your preflop opening size, like for example, say you get KKJ6 unsuited on the button and it folds to you, my initial instinct would be to pot it to steal the blinds and also it plays better HU than multiway so i want it either HU or to take it down, but say you have one limper and you have JT97 suited once on the button, would you make sort of a smaller raise, maybe 2.5x to sort of build a pot in position hoping you get some callers because your hand plays well multiway?
I mix it up quite a bit. Min-raises, 3x, 3x+1 for limpers, pot, min-reraises, 3x from the blinds regardless of the number of limpers. I'm probably a little too fancy in this respect. But I'm just trying things out.
The KKJ6 hand...if my goal is to steal the blinds, I raise as small as necessary to steal the blinds. I don't start with pot-sized there. If my goal is to get weak players to the flop so I can take their money, I raise as much as they will call.
JT97ss on the button with a limper...I could raise this to a variety of numbers. If I have loose pre-flop, tight post-flop players I'm more likely to raise pot. Beware of the limp/re-raise though. You have a hand with decnet equity against AAxx...but I don't necessarily want to play a huge pot with it
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Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
How should I start out at the micros (plo2) and what's a good win rate?
How to start out (expanding on my previous post):
The surest way to play is simply to peddle the nuts and wait for clueless players to pay you off. I'd start off playing 3-4 tables and buying in for about $2 at each table. This way you'll get a fair amount of volume in without getting overwhelmed. (Look for 9 max tables with high average pot sizes.) Look to raise about 10% of your hands and limp with another 20-25%. Fold to a lot of preflop and postflop raises if you don't have much. If you have a little something (like a weak draw or a likely best hand like a small set on a dry board) then you can put in a bet. When you hit a very strong flop, turn or river, bet the pot. If you're hand is still very strong on the next card, bet the pot again.
WIN RATE:
It's hard to categorize win rates in terms of BB/100 at .01/.02 because the play is so loose, the stacks are so deep, and the play is so poor. When you're just starting out, your win rate isn't as important as winning. Your goal now is simply to win. Once you notice that you're consistently cashing out with more than you bought in with, then it's time to start thinking about improving your win rate. You can look into starting hand selection, putting your opponent on a range, betting medium-strong hands for value, adjusting against fish and regulars and running the occasional bluff. And if that works your win rate just increased. But if it doesn't work, you have a solid game you can return to.
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Originally Posted by aK13 View Post
Is variance smaller or larger in Omaha Hi than O8? Why?
It is a pretty commonly known notion that playing tight and only premium preflop starting hands are usually the main key to winning, and stressed heavily in Hold'em. Obviously in Omaha it is going to be important as well, but do you think that it is easier to get away with a looser preflop style / making a looser style more profitable as compared to Hold'em? Obviously this is assuming a typical loose small stakes game with some mix of passives and aggressives.
Variance is much smaller in o8 for several reasons. Mainly because in PLO it's fairly common to get stacks in as a 60/40 favourite or slimmer, which obv leads to some sick swings. in o8 is a limit game, so you'll hardly ever get stacks in, and you've always got odds to draw. You'll also frequently pick up fractions of pots, which helps keep the variance lower.
And the best way to play against a typical loosey goosey low stakes table is obviously to be tighter and more aggressive. I'm sure you could lag it up, but it would only be making life harder for yourself.
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Originally Posted by WWJfergusonD View Post
When is check-raising appropriate/preferrable in PLO?
This really depends on the SPR after your check raise, especially on the flop. It's especially important to exercise caution when cr OOP on the flop or turn when your opponent has the option to put in one more pot-sized bet or just flat call, unless you have an extremely strong hand that figures to be the best hand and best draw very often.
Most of your c/r lines should be for value on the flop rather than to take your opponent off a better hand. On the turn you might be cring a little more to make your opponent fold weak two pair type hands when you have something like TP + awesome draws. The river is far too opponent specific.
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best plo vids for noobs?
I've only watched the DC vids, but they will give you solid basics.
Ms. PLO (Vanessa)
and
PLO (whitelime)
should be more than enough to stop horrendous monkey spew.
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Originally Posted by WWJfergusonD View Post
I lost a 200BB coinflip yesterday. It was the first substantial flip I've lost in what seems like a couple of weeks. When I saw I got in as a slight dog, it shook me a little bit. So I didn't want to be playing on 5 tables with a few hundred dollars in play. So I clicked to sit out when the blinds came around and took an hour break.
hmm, i dont think plo is for you, get use to flipping for a lot more, i have won and lost 800bb pots when flipping and being 80/20 etc, plo has huge variance and playing deep is awesome fun, if you are willing to push all your edges then plo will be good for you but if not head back to NL.
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At PLO, the average player has relatively weaker fundamentals, and so the base winrate of solid play is a little higher (2-5bb/100 for solid play). However, finding a spot and exploiting at PLO is much tougher and much much higher variance.
ok this is soo fundamentally wrong, PLO50, PLO100, PLO200 have at least 3 fish at every table and generally an abc tag reg, these games are hugely exploitable. it is much easier to exploit at PLO to NL, the swings are higher but that is generally because people are happier to ship lighter on any street. while there are definitely some decent players playing low stakes PLO its common for there to be no good players at the table, i just looked at ftp plo100 and saw 2 good players on any tables, that is all, so i would say every game is sitable and beatable if you can play.
these games are completely about value betting well and realizing basic player traits.
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Originally Posted by misterveidt View Post
I've been calling with any suited ace at 5 cent ten cent.
But yeah, get 2 people all in w me and I can gambooool w a flush draw?
I don't think calling and playing any suited ace from EP is a good strategy. Sure, there will be flops you have good equity on and can bet/call/get it in whatever and it won't ever be too bad, but you aren't going to be able to exploit your opponents that often when OOP - you will only get action on coinflips (or as a huge dog); a FD is so obvious to even the biggest spewtard PLO players.
I'd much rather just fold these hands, build up a solid image and value bet these freaks when they are crushed. If you want to play any suited ace, start 3-betting them in position and exploit their postflop tendencies. Just fold this trash from EP; if your opponents are bad enough that these plays are better than break-even then there will be lower variance ways of taking it from them.
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Originally Posted by WWJfergusonD View Post
What do you think about the "always bet pot if you're betting at all" approach to PLO?
I am pretty sure it is not the optimal way to play. There are obvious situations that don't call for a pot sized bet. One example is if you have the nut flush on a monotone flop, there is absolutely no reason to bet the pot. The most outs that can possibly be against you are 7, which is 5.5-1 against filling. The turn is closer with 10 outs, but a 60% pot bet will give top set 2.5-1 odds and they will fill up at 3.4-1 rate. So they are losing money. The argument for betting the pot is that idiots are gonna call a psb as often as a 60% psb, so why not get the additional value from their incorrect calls?
That being said, at low limits, if you don't bet pot when you are wanting a fold, it will be perceived as weakness, not as the right size bet for the situation. Example- you have a straight draw on the flop. It is to the nuts, your bet may be perceived as strength, so you bet. Villain calls. Turn is a blank, you bet again, villain calls. River blanks. You have ten high. You can't win by checking down, so you either give up, or bet. A made hand like a set will take the aforementioned line and will bet around 1/2 pot on river to get value from a missed draw that may have picked up a pair or two pair along the way. But if you bet half pot here as a bluff, villain is likely to see this as weakness and raise. They don't seem to understand that a pot sized bet on the river in this situation makes no sense. And checking a set would be stupid. A set wants a call, so a set bets less than pot. But you can't bluff with a half pot bet cause you will get looked up. Your bet sizing for a bluff and a value bet should be the ~same. So if you can't bluff the river when you whiff, it makes little sense to bet your draws for deception. It is good when you actually have the set and you get raised when you bet small, but sets don't come around that often.
I think looking up pot sized bets lighter on the river at lower limits may make sense because they are bluffing with a psb even when the situation doesn't call for it.
The higher the limits, the less this will happen, I'm sure, but where I'm at right now PLO25-50, this seems to be the thought process.
LL PLO Equity Distribution
Hand Analyzer
Omaha Hands and Probability
Starting Hands+ Show Spoiler +
Omaha Poker Strategy
By: Lou Kreiger
Recommended Starting Hands
If you follow this list of suggested starting hands, you’ll seldom get into trouble, or find yourself involved in a hand where you’ll be confused about whether you ought to continue playing or fold your hand.
Ace-ace combinations: Any hand containing a pair of aces is a terrific starting hand, though some are much stronger than others. Obviously a hand like As-Ad-Ks-Kd is about as good as it gets. You’ve got the two best pair, and if you flop a set it will be the highest possible set and therefore any full house that may be derived from this holding would also be the highest possible full house. In addition, you can make the nut flush in either diamonds or spades, and if you make a straight it will be the highest possible straight.
Consider the difference in quality between this hand and a pair of “dry aces,” such as As-Ad-9h-5c. Although this hand is favored against any other individual hand except a better hand containing a pair of aces, it lacks flush potential, straight potential, can only flop one set rather than two, and can easily be run down by a group of opponents. Nevertheless, this hand would be favored against any other single opponent who does not hold a pair of aces in his hand, so it’s as important — and perhaps even more important — to raise with this hand in hopes of reducing the field than it is to raise with a higher quality hand containing a pair of aces.
Other good hands involving a pair of aces would include such holdings as A-A-Q-Q, A-A-J-J, A-A-T-T, A-A-9-9, and any pair along with a pair of aces. Obviously, if one of the aces is suited to another of your cards so much the better, and if both aces are suited that’s better yet.
But aces are valuable even if they’re not accompanied by another pair, and a hand like A-A-J-T, A-A-K-Q, A-A-Q-J, A-A-K-T, and A-A-K-J are all terrific starting hand combinations, and can be played very aggressively before the flop. After all, no one can have a bigger hand before the flop than one containing a pair of aces. The difference between incredibly good hands, such as A-A-K-K double suited and A-A-8-4 is that the former has so much more potential for making big hands over and above it’s pair of aces, that it is a far superior holding.
King-king and Queen-queen combinations: Just as any hand containing a pair of aces is a good starting hand, so are hands containing a pair of kings and a pair of queens. The quality of each particular holding that includes either a pair of kings or queens is similar to those hands containing a pair of aces.
In the best of these hands, the big pair is supported by another big pair and is double suited. Thus Kd-Ks-Qd-Qs is a better hand than Kd-Ks-9d-9s. While all the flushes will each be king-high, the former can make bigger sets and therefore bigger full houses than the latter hand and K-K-Q-Q can make bigger straights too.
Next in desirability are hands that are single suited. Once again, a hand like Kd-Ks-Qd-Qh is a better hand than Kd-Ks-9d-9h, for the same reasons.
A single pair of kings or queens, supported by straight cards is also very desirable, and a hand such as Kd-Ks-Qd-Js offers a big pair, a draw to a very big set and full house, as well as the second best possible flush draw in two suits and a variety of very big straights.
Wrap Music: Wrap hands can be incredibly strong, with the strongest of them all being J-T-9-8 double suited. Double suited hands are better than similar hands that are single suited, and a single suited hands is more desirable than one that’s unsuited, but the strength of these hands is not so much the flush potential –— which can easily be beaten by queen-high, king-high, or ace-high flushes — but in all of the straights that can be made with these cards.
Wrap hands need not be as tightly bound as this holding, and a hand with a gap in it can also provide a draw to a straight that can be completed by any of 20 outs. Since bigger is better, the higher the starting cards, the more likely yours will be nut straight. So what’s the difference between this hand and one like A-K-Q-J, which is also a terrific holding? You can make more straights with the jack-high grouping because it can meld with cards above as well as below it in ranking. Although you won’t make as many straights with the ace-high grouping, all of the straights you manage to make will be the nut straight.
Since higher hands are generally better than lower ones, small wraps, such as 6-5-4-3 are much worse than they might first appear. Yes, everything we’ve said about making straights with this hand and others like it are just as true as it is with hands like J-T-9-8, the big difference lies in the quality of the straight you make when the flop hits you. If you make a straight with 6-5-4-3, one of your opponents might have made a bigger straight, and even if he hasn’t there may be one or more opponents lurking in the weeds with a draw to a bigger straight. Hands like these can cost most or all of your chips in pot limit games, and quite a few chips in limit poker games too. Good Omaha players have the discipline to release these weaker wrap hands and save their time, chips, and energy for bigger holdings.
In all cases, double suited hands are superior to those that are single suited, and single suited hands are superior to those that are unsuited. All of these selections support the construction of big full houses, big straights, and when suited or double suited, they also support building big flushes too — the kinds of hands that usually win pots in Omaha games.
The hands that follow are emblematic of good starting hands for Omaha. They are not nearly as good as those hands based on pairs of aces, kings, queens; nor are they as strong as big suited connectors, such as K-Q-J-T, but they are playable. This list is certainly not exclusive. But these hands provide examples of entire groups of analogous hands that are playable.
Very Good Hands
Qh-Js-8h-6s: Call. You can flop flush and straight draws with this hand.
Qs-Qh-6c-3s: Call if the pot has not been raised. Your two smaller cards are essentially worthless. With a hand like this you want to either flop a set of queens get packing.
Kh-9h-6s-5s: Call if the pot has not been raised. You’ve got some draws that are possible with this holding, though it’s unlikely you’ll ever make the best possible hand.
Ad-Jc-Th-8s: This hand is significantly weaker than the very best hands, but it has high card potential for a straight, and can be played if the pot has not been raised before it’s your turn to act. If the pot has been raised, someone probably has a bigger hand than yours and you ought to save your money for a better opportunity.
9h-9c-8c-8d: You have potential to build a straight, a flush, and you might flop a set too. This is a playable hand.
All of these hands are playable because they offer numerous possibilities, such as sets, straights, and flushes. The time to play hands like these is when the pot has not been raised before it’s your turn to act. Hands like these have difficulty growing into the nuts, and facing the prospect of having to call a raised pot is a strong indication that the raiser is starting out with a bigger hand than yours. This puts the double-whammy on you: Not only are you an underdog to the better hand, it will cost also you two bets instead of one just to see the flop.
The following chart contains examples of hands you probably shouldn’t play from any position, even at the small cost of one bet. These hand s are either weak or tend to lead you into costly traps. We’ll explain why.
Unplayable Hands
7s-7c-4c-2d: All of your possibilities are weak. A set of sevens is no guarantee of winning the pot and making a seven-high flush or a straight using either your four-deuce or seven-four combinations will produce hands that can easily be bested by others.
Qs-Js-6h-5h: Many hold’em players gravitate to hands like this: two fair hold’em hands that are completely uncoordinated for Omaha. Neither the five nor the six work in any way with the queen or jack, and two playable hold’em hands don’t always add up to a playable Omaha hand. There are lots of hands that fit into this category. Examples are As-Th-5c-5d, Jh-8h-5c-4c, and Ah-Kh-3c-3h. You should be able to think of a few others with some practice.
4c-4h-3d-3s: Low sets and baby straights can doom you to a second best hand that costs a lot more than you are apt o win if you get lucky. Just dig up the discipline to say “No” to hands like these.
As-2h-3h-4c: While you’d raise with this hand in Omaha/8, you shouldn’t even call with it in Omaha-high. Any straight you make can be bested by a bigger one, and winning the pot with a three-high flush qualifies as a modern miracle. If an ace falls, your pair of aces will lose to any other ace because your kicker is so low.
Kh-Qd-7s-6c: Two straight possibilities with nothing else is another example of two hold’em hands that look nice adding up to a lot less than one good Omaha hand. Save your money.
These recommend hands are not the only hands you can play before the flop, but if you are learning the game and stick to these hands and hands like them, you should be able to avoid the tragic flaw of playing too many of them. In addition to avoiding the downfall of many Omaha players, you’ll seldom find yourself trapped in hands that are confusing if you follow these suggestions. Releasing hands that do not catch part of the flop will by easy, and less costly too. And when you do play, the quality of your hands will be quite high. Since most people play Omaha because it offers an easy rationale for playing more hands, our recommendations will allow you to take advantage of that propensity and profit from it. Steve Badger+ Show Spoiler +
Intro to Hi Lo+ Show Spoiler +
People often ask me what book I'd recommend to a novice Omaha player. There are other useful books, but my normal reply is: the Bible. Omaha does have the tendency to drive beginning players to prayer, but it really need not be so.
I am also often asked about writing my own book on Omaha. This is not a book. Neither is it meant to deal with the more advanced, complex and difficult skills that the strongest Omaha players master. This is an introduction to the key strategies behind the game. While it's not meant to deal with the most advanced concepts, it does deal with concepts that should benefit many experienced players too, not just novices.
What I mean by "Omaha" here is the most common variation of Omaha Holdem: Limit Omaha HiLo Split, Omaha8, Omaha/8, Omaha High-Low, Omaha Split, Omaha Eight-or-Better. Omaha is also played Limit High Only, Pot Limit High, and Pot Limit HiLo Split. While concepts here are sometimes applicable to the other variations, sometimes they are not. Check out the above links for strategy ideas on the other variations. Some readers may want to begin with the How to Play Poker page and the Omaha Rules page to go over game basics, then return here. Also check out Omaha Myths, which deals with common misconceptions.
Two cards, always two cards... Omaha hands consist of three of the five community board cards, plus two cards from each player's hand -- always three off the board, always two out of the hand. You can use the same or different card combinations to make your high hand and your low hand (if any), but you always use two from your hand, three from the board. This is important not just from the perspective that it is a rule and you have to do it, but also in thinking about how your hand must integrate with the board. Your hand must cooperate with the board. (Cooperation is a recurrent Omaha principle.) You should never think of your hand in isolation. It needs three cards from the board for high, and needs three cards for low. (Some new players find it helpful to focus more on "three from the board" rather than "two from the hand."
Nut low means best possible low... Reading low hands often confuses newbie players -- experienced ones too -- but there actually is a pretty easy way to do it. First, you must remember the two cards from your hand, three from the board rule. A board like 87532 might make 2367 somewhat hard to read but you read your low hand simply by taking the lowest card combination to be found using three cards from the board and two from your hand.
But what is the lowest? What about when your cards are paired (counterfeited) on the board? Think of it this way: the lowest/best possible hand is a wheel, a 54321 -- or 54,321. The highest/worst possible qualifying low hand is 87654 -- or 87,654. Read your low hand as a number, starting with the highest card and working down. The player with the hand/number closest to 54,321 wins (or ties if someone else has the same hand/number). Omaha players often speak of "the nut low." This is the best possible low in this particular hand. While A2 combined with an 876KQ board creates the best low possible, 54 combined with a board of A23KQ makes the nut low in another case. And, 23 combined with a 764KA board makes the nut low (64,321), not an A2, which only can make a 76,421. If you get confused by how your cards are paired or counterfeited by the board, at the showdown, show your hand and ask the dealer to read exactly what your low hand is.
Omaha is a game of nut hands, so as hands unfold, practice reading what the nut low hand is. Then start thinking of your low hand in relation to the nut low. It's not important to know how low your low is, what matters is how low your low is in comparison to the nut low.
Why play Omaha?... This website is called Play Winning Poker. While some newbies reading this Introduction will be hard pressed to do it right away, the aim is to win at Omaha -- not have fun, or even to irritate yourself. Frankly, at lower limits, winning at Omaha is easy, if you really are trying to win because most Omaha players play terribly, much worse than they play Holdem (which is not so good to start with).
In many ways, Omaha is mathematically simplistic. If you play only good starting hands and your opponents see fit to play almost every hand, and don't care whether they play for one bet or for four, soon the math of that will work in your favor. Omaha is the best game to make money, especially when you have a small bankroll. $3/6 Omaha requires only about half the bankroll of $3/6 Holdem, but your hourly win rate should be higher.
Bad players have virtually no chance to beat Omaha over any meaningful period of time, but they can win big pots, and have really good sessions. This is true of Holdem too but to a much smaller degree, because Holdem edges are generally small in loose games. Weak Holdem players can "school" together and get pot odds on their poor draws and therefore not be playing all that bad. On the other hand, there is no parallel schooling phenomenon in Omaha where very often five players draw stone cold dead while two players have all the outs between them (for example, on the turn the nut flush and the top set are the only live hands, and five other players with two pairs and baby flushes are drawing dead).
Omaha is a game of massive edges; Holdem is a game of smallish edges. Low limit Omaha games are the easiest poker games to beat -- if you play properly. Most players do not have the ability, or more important, the desire to play properly in low limit Omaha games. If you are playing to win, generally Omaha games are the place to play because they are cheaper (less bankroll), more profitable (higher hourly win rates) and have weaker players playing much more poorly. It's deadly dull tho. What winning loose-game Omaha is not is a barrel of laughs.
So, for less experienced players, there are some contradictions at work here. Omaha is a great game for good players... but most inexperienced players are not good... but it is very easy to teach a player to play way-above-average Omaha... but the basic advice is to play with great discipline... but having discipline is an advanced skill... and is boring as paste.
Omaha is a game of non-random accuracy... One thing to understand about Omaha is that since you get a higher percentage of your final hand sooner, your hands are generally much more defined than in Holdem or Stud. After all, 7/9ths of your hand is known on the flop. Then, when it comes to the betting, the likely outcome of an Omaha hand is often precisely known. A player with twenty, or twelve, or four outs has that many outs.
In Holdem random outcomes are common. Facing several opponents, they can win by hitting oddball kickers or spiking their underpair. On the other hand, Omaha is far more concrete. You know your outs -- how many cards make you the nut hand. In loose games there is very little mystery. In tighter games you often don't need to make nut hands to win, since you face fewer opponents, but in common lower limit situations (where most Omaha is played), there is little randomness to the game. Unlike Holdem, before the river card is dealt, usually you should know exactly how many possible cards make you the winner, and how many don't.
Omaha is a game of information. Holdem is a game of uncertainty. That's how they were designed! Loose game Omaha is about ending up with the nuts. Loose game Holdem is far more shadowy and difficult.
Many players seem to draw the wrong conclusions from the greater certainty that is part of Omaha. They think because their nut flush on the turn gets beaten on the river when the board pairs that Omaha has some mystical randomness to it. The opposite is true. There are a precise number of cards that pair the board, and make you lose. There are a precise number that do not pair the board, and make you win. On the turn, if you have the nut flush, with no cards in your hand paired on the board, and your opponent has a set, with no other cards paired on the board, there are exactly forty possible river cards. Exactly ten pair the board to make you a loser. Exactly thirty do not pair the board and make you the winner. That's it -- pure, simplistic math. In the long run, you win three out of four. This is known. This is Omaha.
Do not let yourself be confused by irrelevant concepts. What matters in any form of poker, but particularly in Omaha, is the probability of winning -- not who is temporarily in the lead. Whether you flop a made hand or a draw or a backdoor draw is irrelevant, what matters are your prospects, your probabilities, of having the winning hand on the river. What counts is how many cards, in what combinations, make you the winning hand. Know how many cards make your hand, and then know that in the long run you will win pots in the mathematically appropriate percentage: if you have x% chance of making the winning hand, you better be getting at least the correspondingly appropriate pot odds.
Omaha is a game of accuracy, clarity and concrete information. Sure, sometimes you will get unlucky, and since Omaha edges are so huge, when you get unlucky it can be pretty hard to swallow, but since the edges are usually so big, if you play good starting hands in Omaha, and get unlucky, you can still win. You just have to keep your discipline.
Starting hands... Unlike Holdem, where post-flop play is far more critical, winning Omaha fundamentally begins with starting hands. Starting hands exist before the flop, which is where you get enormous edges in Omaha against a field. On the turn you will often have times where some players are even drawing dead, and that is clearly the juiciest money in the game, but the simplest, most direct, most necessary way to beat these games is to not play crap hands and to get more money in the pot when you have A255 and several of your opponents have hands like K965. Getting garbage hands with a low winning expectation to pay before the flop when they are enormous dogs is a big part of winning Omaha.
Not counting AA and perhaps KK, in looser, multiway games Holdem hands run much closer in value than Omaha hands do -- urban myths not to the contrary. If you don't know and appreciate this basic concept, you are going to be in trouble in Omaha. Omaha has a fairly large group of hands that will win at double the rate of randomish hands. Few Holdem hands can say the same. Only playing good starting hands, and raising before the flop with many of them, is the basics of winning in loose-game, low to middle limit Omaha.
Schooling in Omaha... "Schooling" is a common phenomenon in loose-game Holdem. When several players play badly by calling with weak draws, like gutshot straights or backdoor flushes, these players partially protect each other by making the "price" on each of their calls better. If only one player calls with a gutshot draw, usually that is a significant mistake, but if several players make similar calls, now the pot is big enough to make the calls profitable, or at least much less bad. Properly understanding the strategy involved in schooling is a key skill in loose-game Holdem. (See article on Holdem Schooling here.)
There is no parallel schooling phenomenon in Omaha -- quite the contrary. In Omaha, schooling benefits the favorites, not the underdogs. This reverse schooling phenomenon is what makes Omaha often mindlessly profitable. Players with four outs or less call bets from players with twenty outs, and no matter how many people call, the twenty outs player continues to have twenty outs. Despite the definite reverse profitability of "schooling" in Omaha, poor players engage in it all the time. They look at a big pot and call bets hoping to get lucky, even though they may be drawing totally dead.
Suppose you flop a top set of three kings against seven opponents. The true enemies of your KKK (or any strong Omaha hand) are the first two callers (meaning the two opponents with the most outs). On a flop of KsQd7c for example, we are afraid of AJTx wrap-straight draws. That's the first caller or two. Then we have open-end straight draws. We are the favorite over those (and all the rest of the draws). Next are backdoor flush draws. Then we worry about the lame backdoor straight draws around the seven. Naturally, many of these longshot draws overlap each other. For instance, if the Ace-high spade flush draw calls us, we certainly love the five-high spade flush draw to call, drawing dead. Yes, they may win sometimes, but we love these sixth, seventh, and eighth callers!
With the KKK, if we assume we won't win unless we fill up, and we don't fill up on the turn, we will have ten outs of the forty-four possible cards, meaning we will fill up 23% of the time. Even if we lose to quads the 3% part of that, that's still a one out of five win percentage, for a scoop, while getting six, seven or eight way action. Additionally, we'll normally have our own backdoor draws. If we have two backdoor King-high flush draws, this will further destroy what little power the sixth, seventh and eight callers have, as their backdoor baby flush draws in our suits are contributing totally dead money on that aspect of their hands.
So, building a pot with a raise before the flop in Omaha does not benefit schooling opponents, it benefits players with the good hands. The flip side of this phenomenon exposes another key difference between Omaha and Holdem.
In loose Holdem games, there are a lot of hands you can profitably add to your arsenal, most obviously Ace-rag suited and suited connectors. This is not true in Omaha. Again, the difference in value of hands multiway in Omaha is much more dramatic than in Holdem. The majority of hands simply are never playable (outside the blinds). If you are on the button and everybody limps in, 3456 is still a worthless piece of garbage. It does not matter if you have three opponents or seven, the hand stinks. You can play a small number of additional hands, but for the most part, no matter how loose or weak your opponents are, you can't add too many more hands to your playable repertoire.
The thing to "loosen up" in such a game is to want to play for a raise most hands you play. In tight games, calling when someone limps in front of you is often the right play. In a loose game, raising is usually the correct play because you are playing a hand with way the best of it. You want dead money in the pot, and you want dead hands hopelessly chasing it! And they will.
A "river" game?... Some players like to call Omaha a "river game" because the final card often determines the winning hand. While that is true, the thinking behind this "river game" idea is very flawed. Poor Omaha players wait to the river to bet -- when they know they are going to win (or lose). That's just not sensible or profitable. Omaha is not a "river game"; it is a game of preparation.
Before the flop: you should play hands that have a high expectation; you should manipulate the pot size; you should try to manipulate your opponents so that when you have a hand that plays well against fewer opponents you are playing against fewer opponents and when you have a hand that plays well against a full field you are playing against a full field.
After the flop: the flop is critical. Here you should begin to roughly calculate the probabilities and deduce how favorable your chances are to win. Again, here a player should be manipulating the pot -- get more chips in when the odds favor you, try to minimize when you have a longer shot.
The turn card is the least important aspect of Omaha but it's the end of the main math part of the game. In loose games, you can pretty much calculate precisely your chances of winning some or all of the pot.
Whether a player then makes or doesn't make their hand on the river really doesn't matter. You do everything right mathematically up to this point, and lose to a one outer, that is fine -- just do the same things again and again the next times. Omaha (and all the other games) is about having the best of it in the longrun. There is no "leader money" in poker. The "best" hand is the one with the highest winning potential (including the understanding that some hands will win more bets than others). Don't think what just happened was an aspect of a "river game". I can't emphasize this strongly enough: All the truly important actions in this hand occurred before that river card happened to bring you bad luck.
Another thing to consider is that only a tiny percentage of money action is on the river in Omaha. Poker is about money. Omaha is not about the river. That's naive. Omaha is about getting money in the pot in a mathematically advantageous way before the river. Limit Omaha High Low is an anti-river game!
Put another way, if you play a coin flip game against a guy, and he says he'll give you $5 for every time it comes up heads, but you have to give him $1 for every time it comes up tails, it would be wrong to refer to this situation as "a flip game"! The key part of the game was in the pre-negotiation, not in the flip itself.
Driving the pot... Loose game Omaha is mostly about nut hands. If there is a flush, you sure want the nut flush. If there is a low, you sure want the nut low. The obvious reason, of course, is because you have the winning hand rather than the second or third best hand. But that's not the only value to playing nut hands.
Again, winning Omaha requires pot manipulation -- get more money in when you have clearly the best of it; play for cheap when you don't. Nut hands and nut draws using quality cards can "drive the betting" where non-nut hands cannot.
For instance, let's look at the enormous difference between KK and JJ -- not in terms of how much more often KK makes the winning hand, but in terms of the difference in the pot sizes. KK is a much more valuable holding in part because KK can drive the betting in many pots that JJ can't -- like on a turn board of KQQ7 versus a board of JQQ7. The difference between those two situations is enormous. There are other reasons why KK is a major holding while JJ is a minor one, but the difference in how each can drive the betting (or not) offers an excellent illustration of what situations you want to be in when playing Omaha.
Likewise, there is a very large difference between A23x and A2xx on a 87K flop. The latter hand should win less money, not just because it will be counterfeited sometimes and not make the winning hand, but because it cannot drive the betting nearly as much (if at all) as the A23x can. A256, A247, A269, all these hands should win extra money not just because you make winners more often, but because you should be driving the betting with them far stronger than with the one-dimensional A2.
Cooperation... Greedy players make lousy Omaha players. Foolish greed often costs players bets because they simply don't recognize that the game frequently requires cooperative betting. Suppose there are three people in a pot. On an 8s7s5c flop, Player A bets and is called. The 9h comes on the turn. Player A bets again, Player B calls, Player C raises, Player A reraises, B calls, C caps, A and B call. Now the river card pairs the board with a flush card, the 9s. What now? Often Player A will bet, with no high hand, and Player B will raise, with no low hand. This will drive Player C with a straight and a weak low out of the pot. Translation: stupid Player A and Player B. Instead of cooperating to get at least one bet from Player C, they got none. If Player A stupidly bets, Player B should call, and hope to get one bet from Player C, or perhaps an idiotic raise. The better play though would be for Player A to check, have Player B bet, get Player C to call, then have Player A checkraise, and have Player B now call. This way you get at least one bet from Player C, and perhaps two. Think about how you can use cooperative betting between high and low hands to extract bets from players in the middle. Don't be greedy and cost yourself money.
Luck... While the emphasis on the non-random mathematical nature of the game above makes the point, I'll mention a few things about luck as it applies to Omaha. All poker has luck involved. Omaha is the most mathematically straightforward poker game -- very little randomness, very much known information. So, when someone makes a miracle one-outer on the river, some people will mistakenly think of Omaha as having a high degree of luck, when the opposite is plainly true. Omaha is a bit like a roulette wheel. If you have bets on all the numbers except one, when it happens to come up that other number that is really bad luck. But, now suppose the person who bet on that one number also put up as much money as you did. You had thirty-six chances to win, he had one, playing for the same prize. The longrun outcome of this game is surely not going to be determined by luck! You will crush your opponent, either very soon, or a little while later. When he gets lucky, he gets super-lucky, but that's just fine, as long as he is willing to keep making the same bet over and over.
Holdem has far more random luck than Omaha (or Stud). That's why it's the most popular game. Poor players can do better, longer. Somewhat bizarrely, Holdem also has more long-term skill. Winning Holdem is a game of exploiting tiny edges often. Winning Omaha is a game of exploiting huge edges less often.
In most ways, Omaha is a far simpler game. When played by good players, Omaha games are horrible -- unless the blinds are huge, forcing players to gamble. This is why Omaha is often played with a kill, to generate action in a game that should have very little. This is also why Omaha will never be "the game of the future." Poor players have no chance. Good players eat them alive. In many localities, Omaha games burn brightly for a while, and then burn out as the bad players go back to Holdem games where random luck gives them a fighting chance.
Quartered... In loose games you should hardly ever think about being quartered (when you have the same low hand as another player). It's almost never very costly to be quartered in limit Omaha. In loose games, one of the principal plays you should always have on your mind is how you can get three-quarters of a pot with hands like nut low and one pair. Too many weaker players obsessively fixate on being quartered with this sort of hand instead of focusing on getting three-quarters of the pot occasionally. The quickest way to get over a pathological fear of being quartered is to just do the math on various situations where you get one-quarter. It's hardly ever much of a loss. Now compare that to similar hands where you manage to get three-quarters of different size pots. You'll quickly see that many tiny losses getting quartered are more than compensated for by a few occasions where you can snatch three-quarters.
Scooping... High-Low Split poker is about scooping the pot -- winning it all, not splitting. Many weak and beginning players think they are playing decently because they focus on hands with A2 or A3 that make the nut low. These hands are playable obviously, and getting half a loaf is better than none, but this is most definitely not why you should be showing up to play Omaha (or Stud HiLo for that matter).
Once again, just doing some simple math is very illuminating. Scooping a pot is not merely twice as good as splitting. Suppose you play a five-way pot. Everyone puts in $80. If you split the $400 pot, you get back $200, a profit of $120. But if you scoop, you get $400, for a profit of $320. That's not twice as good, it is 2.67 times as good. In a three-way pot where you all invest $80, if you split you get $120 for a profit of $40. If you scoop, you get $240 for a profit of $160 -- four times as good as splitting.
The real reason to play A2 hands is not for the benefit of making the nut low and splitting a pot. The reason to play this hand is because while it is splitting the pot some of the time, it allows other parts of your hand to be aiming to scoop the pot. When you play A2, you actually want to be using some other aspect of your hand, something that will scoop. A2 just makes it safe for you to play, including often giving you the chance to make backdoor straights and flushes that you otherwise would not have stayed in the pot to make. This again goes back to "driving the pot". A2 allows you to drive the pot in situations like where you have A2JT with the nut flush draw and the board is 4678. Your A2 allows you to stick around for the gutshot straight draw, and allows you to aggressively bet your nut flush draw. That is where the money is, not in splitting the pot with the nut low.
Four card units... The above illustration also should help make the point that Omaha hands are four-card units. Despite the "must play two" aspect of the game, Omaha hands should not be looked at as six two-card holdings. Doing so is to fundamentally misunderstand the game. The RGP Posts section of this website addresses several fallacies involving Omaha point count systems, and starting hand charts in general. There are a lot of reasons these systems are a bad idea but one basic flaw is they view Omaha hands as several two-card units.
It should be easy enough to see though that while 3d3h is a basically useless Omaha holding on its own, when combined with an As2s it now becomes a powerful aspect of a coordinated hand! Viewing the 33 out of the context of the A2 is a serious error.
Beyond the simplistic thinking about starting hands, it is critical to think of Omaha hands as four card units after the flop. You may play As2s3dQd, but end up with a flop of Qs9c2c. Before the flop no point-count system would assign the Qd2s aspect of your hand any value, but now here on the flop it is part of your whole hand, and you must think in terms of how you have two pair, a backdoor flush draw, a back door nut low draw, a backdoor wheel draw, etc. Omaha hands are multifaceted and multi-dimensional. They should be viewed and analyzed as integrated wholes, not separate parts. An Omaha hand can be greater than the sum of its parts, sometimes even less, but Omaha hands are always four cards.
Situational analysis & starting hands... All winning poker requires situational judgments. Some folks just hate that. They want easy, cookie-cutter answers. Sometimes difficult problems do have easy answers, but more often they don't. Holdem is a more situational game than Omaha, but because of that, when situational judgments are needed in Omaha, they are usually very critical -- inspirational even. For example, bluffing is not something that you should do much of in loose game Omaha, but there still is a lot of profit to be made from bluffing, precisely because nobody thinks it is a big part of the game!
Omaha HandMost players play a lot of hands in Omaha, more hands than they play in Holdem. The proper play is the reverse. However many hands you play in Holdem, you should play less in Omaha. (Again, Holdem is a post-flop game where playing junk before the flop can often be situationally correct.) If you are in an Omaha game with people violating this concept, as most Omaha players do, then you should only be focusing on playing strong hands and, in the correct situations, a few highly speculative hands that make for big scoops. The latter group boils down to KKxx, and QQ with two decent other cards. All other hands should either contain A2, A3, Ax suited, or be highly coordinated (KQJT, QJJT, 2345). The weakest of these are also more speculative (like the three examples). They aren't very good, and don't hit that often, so you want to try and play for only one bet, but when they do hit, they pay off nicely, so in weak, loose games they should be played. In tougher games they should normally be mucked.
A very good, but not spectacular, hand like A23K with a suit on the King will scoop somewhere between 20 and 50% more than a random hand, depending on number of players and positional factors (and will split far more than random hands). If you are on the button and don't raise with this hand when everybody limps in, you are playing lousy poker. On the other hand you normally don't want to raise under the gun with hands like A234 because you want players. You want to play your very good hands for a raise, you want to try to put in an extra bet when you can, but sometimes you can't.
A very general starting point for loose-ish games is: AAxx, A2xx, Ax suited, A3xx, four cards ten or bigger (except trips), KK with two decent cards. That's mostly it, but there are definite exceptions like AKsQs4. Don't look at these as rigid rules. AK54 is a far superior hand to A397 offsuit. Solid "one-way" hands are okay. You want to win the whole pot. Big cards win big pots, but they have bigger fluctuations.
The end of the beginning... Advanced Omaha strategy goes quite a bit beyond the above, but most Omaha players go nowhere near as far as we go here. Once you think correctly about your approach to the game, like correctly viewing how much better scooping is than splitting for instance, advanced strategy concepts become more readily apparent, and your play will evolve and adapt.
One big reason good players beat bad players at Omaha is because good players are thinking about the right game. Don't be concerned about losing pots. That's defeatist tunnel vision. Instead, be concerned with getting money in with the best of it time and time and time again, and then letting the math take care of things in the longrun. That is Omaha. The introduction to it anyway... Omaha Myths+ Show Spoiler +
This companion to the Introduction to Omaha Poker Strategy is needed because something about Omaha HiLo seems to lead to the true nature of the game being concealed beneath a shroud of fantasies. New myths pop up every day. This is surprising since Omaha is mostly a straightforward game. In fact, this is first Omaha myth to expose:
Myth: "Omaha is a complicated game."
Obviously all poker games have levels of complexity, but the contrasts between Omaha and its closest cousin, Texas Hold'em, reveal Omaha to be much simpler. Texas Hold'em decisions are full of uncertainty, randomness, and the complexity born of one simple fact -- in many hands, all players involved have basically nothing. Suppose AcTs raises before the flop from one in front of the button, QhJh calls on the button, and 7d6d calls in the big blind. Suppose a flop comes down of 9d8h8c. The winner of this pot will often be determined by who plays the craftiest from the flop on. Situations like this occur all the time in Hold'em.
In contrast, in most Omaha games you seldom play hands head-up on the flop, and anytime there are three or more players in a pot either: one player will have a clearly better hand than the others, or more than one player will have a solid hand, or any bet from any player will be able to win the pot on a bluff (because no one has anything at all). Each Omaha hand has many more ways to connect with a flop. Twelve cards in three hands don’t just have double the ways to hit a three card flop, if only because Omaha8 offers players the chance to "win" by either making a high hand or low hand.
Very often Omaha hands come down to simply calculating your chances of winning all or part of a pot. The principle variable becomes how you manipulate the size of the pot via the betting. True, situations do occur that are similar to the one facing the QJ in the Hold'em example above, where getting the AT to fold greatly increases the value of the hand (even if the player doesn’t know it). Correctly playing in these situations does separate great players from average ones, and a significant chunk of Omaha profit comes here, but these situations are rare. They don’t occur every hand, or maybe even every nine hands. Most Omaha situations come down to calculating your "outs" -- counting the number of cards that make your hand and translating that into a percentage. The rare, complicated situations are very important, but the common situations are quite uncomplicated. Omaha is usually a simple game: play hands before the flop that can easily make a straightforward nut hand, and play hands after the flop where you are getting correct odds on making the nut hand. (And again, manipulate the betting as favorably as you can.)
Handling the complex aspects of the game can only come after understanding the basic simplicity of most of the game. The problem that most Omaha players run into is screwing up (and unnecessarily complicating) the simple aspects of the game. If you play QJT4, and get a flop of KJ4, you’ll likely spend a lot of time thinking about how "complicated" Omaha is. You throw that garbage in the muck before the flop, and the game is much simpler.
Again, there are complicated aspects to the game, but most players don’t ever even get to the point of seeing the real complexities because they get themselves involved in situations that are only complicated in the same way as: "if I throw my car keys into the ocean, how will I ever find them?" Or, "if I throw a handful of quarters out the front door, how will I ever find them all?" Both of those are incredibly difficult problems to solve -- except the solution is to simply never throw your car keys in the ocean or your quarters out the front door.
Myth: "Omaha Starting Hands Run Close Together in Value"
This is the silliest myth of all, especially when it comes to real game conditions. The root of this myth comes from the fact that head-up Omaha hands seldom have a dominating relationship in the same way that AA dominates A7 in Holdem. The head-up phenomenon means that you should liberally defend your big blind against a single raiser when you have any sort of reasonable hand. You will be getting correct pot equity to do so.
This head-up concept though has transmuted into the bizarre myth that Omaha starting hands run close together in value. It’s complete nonsense. Readers can run simulations, observe games or do whatever other study they want to "prove" this, but A23K is just a helluva lot better than J965. It will scoop more often, get a share of the pot much more often, it will be more “bettable” and win bigger pots because it makes the nuts more often and easier, etc.
The mass of Omaha hands are like J965 -- random crap. The good and great Omaha hands stand head-and-shoulders above the random crap. They scoop more, split more, are more bettable, and make less "second best" losers. In Holdem, AA stands way above the other hands. KK, QQ and AK are not in AA’s league, but they also aren’t in the league of the rest of the hands either. Omaha has no equivalent of AA but there is a larger group of hands similar to KK-QQ-AK. And then there are also more hands in the same league with AQ-JJ-TT-AJ. Then there is a big drop off, because Omaha does not have the equivalent of 99 or KJ. There are excellent Omaha hands, good ones, a few speculative ones, and then there is garbage that is greatly inferior to the good hands.
This myth is silly enough on its own, but it begets another myth that leads to (thankfully) disastrous play on the part of lots and lots of mediocre players -- they don't raise before the flop.
Myth: "Don’t raise before the flop"
In most Omaha games a critical and basic concept is to get more money in before the flop when you have way the best of it. The most obvious profit in Omaha comes from opponents calling on the turn when drawing dead. This happens reasonably often but the profit that occurs every single hand, the most common way to create a profitable edge is to exploit the dramatically different pre-flop value of Omaha starting hands. Most Omaha games feature players who play too many garbage hands 789T, 23QJ and even J965. In many games, these mistakes occur before the flop all the time. This is where the money is to be made. Since the opportunities arise almost every hand, this is where you increase your profits hugely in Omaha.
Interestingly, many mediocre players who do understand Omaha is about starting hands don't "get" that starting hands only exist before the flop. They passively limp and "wait to see the flop." If a huge part of Omaha is starting hands, then aggressively betting your hands before the flop should be an obvious conclusion.
Of course, raising with a hand you want to raise with is not always the best choice. A234 first to act is just about the worst hand to raise with. You certainly wish you could raise a bunch of people playing random junk, but you can’t. You are first. The best choice available is to limp and invite everybody you can possibly get into the hand -- and hopefully get a raise from another player. The principle here is that you want to raise, but often you are unable to. You want to play A234 for two (or more) bets against 789T, 23QJ and J965, but if raising causes all of them to muck and have you end up playing head-up against AQ65, you screwed up badly.
The peculiar combination of thinking hands run close in value and not raising before the flop encourages the notion that all pre-flop raising does is increase bankroll swings. Let's look at how foolish that notion is in itself.
For the sake of simplicity, ignore split pots for a moment and let's say we have a situation where our hand and the big blind run close together in value and we each win half the time. If this is the situation pre-flop... why would you ever play a hand in a raked game? You and the big blind hand will just lose out to the rake in the long run. Simply calling the big blind would make no sense if hands indeed ran close together in value.
But the myth-makers might say, if you have position on the big blind, after the flop when the hands are more fully defined you will be able to extract value from the player in the blind. Obviously there is no downside to pre-flop raising if this is true. Put another way, how would you like to play in a game where when you are out of position you put in $10, but when your opponent is out of position you put in $20? If you have a positional edge after the flop then making the pre-flop betting essentially a double-sized "ante" is very much favorable to you.
But even that isn't the end of it. Suppose you have basically a coin-flip situation against the big blind. What is better, giving him infinite odds by calling (that is, he already has money in the pot via a forced bet, and he gets to continue playing for free while you have to place a bet), or raising so that he has to put another betting unit into the pot -- where he at least has an option to fold?
Think about that. Suppose we have a literal 50/50 confrontation, but the big blind doesn't know that. It would be frankly idiotic to call the blind and flip a coin for the total amount. That would be nothing but deliberately creating pointless bankroll fluctuation. Instead, if you raise, the big blind player will fold some amount of the time greater than zero -- even if by accident! Even if the big blind only folds once out of 100 times, that is better than merely flipping a coin 100 times.
Much of winning poker involves exploiting small advantages repeatedly. If someone offers to flip a silver dollar with you 100 times, taking him up on it would be pointless gambling. But if the person walked up to you and handed you a dollar for you to put in your pocket at the start, it would be foolish not to go ahead and then flip 100 times. And if instead of 100-1 our reward was more like 10-1 or even 3-1, the more clearly obvious the sense of the wager becomes.
If hands truly did run close in value, then the blinds would become almost the whole game. Getting more than your share of equity in the blinds would be the road to victory, so clearly a key tactic would be to raise before the flop, so as to get the players in the blinds to fold any amount of time greater than zero.
But the basic myth clearly isn't true. As2s3dKd is a dramatically better hand than Jh9d7s5c. It makes no sense at all to let J975 have a free flop when you have a playable hand. Either charge them to see the flop, or let them fold and you take (or share) their blind equity. Either way is better than giving them a complete freeroll, since their blind is already in the pot. Omaha HiLo has some drive-the-betting type hands, and it has hands that often lead to a player being trapped in pots, trying to protect equity invested in a previous betting round (like the above two hands on a 8s7d4c flop). If you don't make use of one, and focus on punishing the other, you won't be a very successful Omaha player.
Myth: "Never raise with low"
This bit of gibberish is almost too good to expose. A very common sight in online Omaha Holdem games is to see terrible players raising on a flop of AJ8 with their naked 23 draws, and then freezing up like a deer in the headlights when they make their hand on the turn or river. Now, when they HAVE something they shut down and become callers. In the case of a 23 shutting down is a good idea (the come-betting and raising is insane), but very often “the never raise with low” myth will cause players to lose money because they are absolutely mortified of getting quartered. In Limit Omaha HiLo getting quartered is seldom a big deal, except head-up. (Pot Limit is a different story.)
Playing $10/20, if betting is capped on all streets three ways, a player will put $240 into a pot (playing with a bet and three raises). This will make a total pot of $720. One quarter of that is $180. So, the absolute worst case when getting quartered is to lose three big bets. Of course, more often the betting will not be capped on every single street, and there will be dead money in the pot from other players or from the blinds. You should be aware of situations where you are likely to get quartered, and bet accordingly, but the obsession most players have with being quartered is a very big hole in their game.
You should not be thinking about getting quartered. You should be thinking: “Can I get three-quarters, and if I can, how can I?” You should be raising often when you have the nut low hand and any sort of high, including as little as AK. Getting quartered on river raises in three way pots will often cost you one chip. But when you win three-quarters of a pot by making the better high hand lay down because of your raise, you will win many chips. For instance, again playing $10/20, suppose a pot is $200 on the turn. A player you believe has nut low bets into a K7487 board. You raise with your A24J. Both players call and you lose to a high hand with Kings up (but you do have the other low hand beat for high). Your raise will have cost you $5. But now if the player with Kings up folds, the pot will be $280 and you will get $210 of it (instead of $80 when you get a quarter of a $320 pot). You risked $5 to win much more than that. Even if the play works one out of ten times, you make money. More likely it will work about half the time.
"Never raise with low" is a nonsense statement. When the words pass through someone's lips, it marks them as a poor player. Omaha hands are always four cards. Your hand always has more to it than just "low".
Sometimes you won’t have any high hand value yourself, or you will face an obvious high hand that will not fold, but anytime you have ANYTHING at all for high, you should be thinking about how might manipulate the betting (usually by raising) so that you get three-quarters and not one-quarter.
Myth: "You play more Omaha hands than Holdem ones"
This is true of bad players but not good ones. Winning Omaha causes much smaller bankroll fluctuations than Holdem because that marginal group of hands that exists in Holdem is largely absent from Omaha. If you only played AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ and JJ you would not have huge fluctuations if only because you would fall into a coma between hands. This would be an awful way to play Holdem because you would be eaten alive by the blinds, but you sure wouldn’t fluctuate a lot. The playable Omaha hands are on par with the weakest of these Holdem hands, but there are more of the Omaha hands. You don’t go into a coma (well, maybe you get close to a coma), and more important, you don’t lose to the blinds. To beat Holdem you have to play many of second and third tier hands and situations. These mostly do not exist in Omaha. There are more good or better Omaha hands, but less playable Omaha hands in total.
Holdem is a game where inspired post-flop play will win a lot of pots without a showdown. Great players can play more hands profitably than average players because they can extract profit from inspired play. Opportunities for inspired play do exist in Omaha, let’s be clear about that, but they are fewer -- and very rare in "normal" loose games.
A sensible betting strategy can greatly increase your Omaha profit. For instance if on the river you have nut low and one pair, but when another nut low (who has no pair) bets, you raise and knock out a player who has you beat for high. There is a lot to Omaha post-flop play, but it pales in comparison to Holdem.
Outplaying opponents is a cornerstone of Texas Holdem. Showing down the winning hand is a cornerstone of Omaha Holdem.
Great players will often be able to identify exploitable situations where the actual cards they hold mean very little. This can happen on rare occasions in Omaha, but for the most part you simply can’t make silk out of a sow’s ear. Crappy Omaha hands are crappy Omaha hands. Before the flop, if your hand is one that normally does not have a solid positive expectation, you will seldom face situations where that hand is transformed into a positive expectation one. In contrast, KTo on the button in Holdem becomes a fine hand if everyone folds to you. Weak Omaha hands very seldom suddenly become similarly "fine."
Of course, in thinking about this topic, we need to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. In a very weak, loose, passive Omaha game you should play more hands than a Holdem game with tight, aggressive, excellent opponents. The idea here is to compare parallel/similar type games.
The principal point however is not about how many starting hands to play comparing one game to another. In itself, that is a nothingism. What you should consider is that Holdem is a game of situational post-flop play, while Omaha is a game of making showdownable, nut hands. Choose your starting hands accordingly.
Myth: "You can’t bluff in Omaha"
Translation: "Bad players can’t bluff in Omaha." Bluffing and semi-bluffing are very important parts of winning Omaha, even if rare. Suppose you play in a game where the average pot is six big bets, $120 in a $10/20 game. Now suppose you successfully bluff one of these pots a week. That is $6240 for a year. Suppose you even win only one out of three of your bluff attempts. A successful bluff one-third of the time once a week would earn you $4160 in a year. That’s 208 big bets. For players attempting to win one big bet an hour, that is profit for four hours a week for a year. The actual numbers aren’t important, but this should illustrate that even rare successful bluffs can earn you a significant amount of money.
Average Omaha players are trained to assume that bluffing in Omaha isn’t possible (even if they do occasionally try). People who think bluffing is impossible make good bluffing targets, but the more critical thing to keep in mind is the nature of Omaha itself. Bluffing is difficult because complete, nut hands happen easily. However, when a complete nut hand is difficult to make, bluffing becomes easier against non-savvy opponents. Flops of QcQsJh or KcQc9c are prime candidates for bluffing. Your opponent(s) may have something, but it is easy for them to have very little -- very little, but still better than what you hold. Small pots with coordinated flops are extremely bluffable from early position. (The terrible players like to bluff from last position in Omaha.) Flop bluffing won’t yield six big bets, but the ratios should be similar. One small bet that earns four small bets is a very nice small bet.
Myth: "You can't win with a set"
Translation: "I misplay flopped sets so I usually lose with them, and lose the maximum when I do lose." Flopping a set (for example, you hold KQQJ and the flop is QJ3) in Omaha is flopping a draw. That’s it. A draw. One reason pocket pairs are weak in Omaha is because not only do you have to spike your set card, you have to also pair the board -- unless of course you drive enough opponents out of the pot so that you also pick up some of the “blank” cards. Still, you continue to only be drawing, to either a full house or to catch a blank. A draw is a draw. To put it mildly, there is no guarantee you will make your draws. When you flop a set, you will often lose, but when you win you will often scoop. Scooping the whole pot is the aim of the game. However, there is a world of difference between flopping three Kings and flopping three jacks... and a universe of difference between three Kings and three fives. QQQ on the QJ3 flop should normally be played aggressively and viewed as a great hand. 555 on an 875 flop should normally be folded without a second thought.
Checking and calling when you flop a set is usually suicide. Either bet aggressively (or if you check, do it from strength, intending to raise the turn, etc.) or probably fold. Sure, there will be some times checking and calling will make sense, but those should be exceptions. Passively allowing everybody and their brother to draw to every draw under the sun will lead to flopped sets being shoveled into the muck as the pots are being pushed to gutshot straights and backdoor flushes -- as well as half pots being pushed to garbage low hands.
Myth: "Aces never win"
Omaha HoldemHere’s a companion to the above myth. Some players cuss that they can’t win with pocket aces, as if aces should have some mystical powers. Pocket aces are a two-card hand in a game where five card hands win. Other folks think aces are nothing special, often not even part of a playable hand. Similar to flopping a set, playing aces passively is the road to their doom. Aces tend to dominate good Omaha hands, meaning Omaha hands with one ace in them. But aces have a harder time dealing with situations where one or more random crapola hands are added to the mix. In these cases it is easy for aces to take the worst of it in the post-flop betting. While it is silly to generalize the same behavior for AAJ9 with no suit and AA35 double-suited, aces are the prime pre-flop raising hand in Omaha HiLo. If everybody plays or everybody folds, that’s fine, but generally you would like to play against hands that are normally very good hands (hands that call raises), but that happen to play relatively poorly against aces. Raising before the flop (and reraising especially) will make it more likely that you will face a single opponent or opponents that is profitable for you to face. (Check out the Pot Limit Omaha High link at the top of the page for a bit on playing aces in that game.)
Many of these myths are interrelated and self-perpetuating. Passive, weak play leads to multi-way situations where most Omaha players end up befuddled. They only have themselves to blame. If you don’t stick your tongue against a frozen lamppost, it is unlikely your tongue will ever get stuck against a frozen lamppost. Omaha Holdem players who invite trouble situations end up in trouble situations, and then draw the wrong conclusions about the trouble. The "why" of why they are in trouble is simply that they put themselves into the trouble. It’s not that aces don’t win, or that sets don’t hold up, or that Omaha Holdem is a complicated game. Playing poorly gets you in difficult trouble.
Approach the game properly and the myths soon evaporate. Embracing the fundamentals of solid Omaha Holdem play leads to an uncomplicated, clear horizon, not one shrouded in myths. Few Omaha players ever reach this point. Once you do, then you can focus on the more subtle challenges of advanced play. PL Hi Lo+ Show Spoiler +
Pot Limit Omaha8 (PLO8) is a different animal from its two closest relatives, Limit Omaha HiLo and Pot Limit Omaha High. The key Limit Omaha8 concept is playing appropriate starting hands. The key Pot Limit Omaha High concept is position, position, position. Of course, all games value many concepts, but the key PLO8 concept is the betability of hands on the later streets, when the pots (and thus the bet sizes) are bigger.
One reason PLO8 isn't played much in casinos is because skill wins. Bad play and bad players are annihilated, and fast too. PLO8 games peopled only with good players are hideously bad. The game becomes pointless and tedious. It comes down to exploiting extremely rare flukes (like top full house losing to quads).
While there aren't that many available, some good PLO8 games are available at a few online cardrooms. One reason that PLO8 continues to exist online is simply because online games have the whole world to draw on in terms of players. Another reason is that online PLO8 games have a cap on the amount players can buy-in for. This leveling the playing field mitigates, a lot, against the standard pot limit phenomenon of good players buying lots of chips and poor players buying tiny stacks. Money goes to money in big bet poker.
However, the most important reason PLO8 games exist as much as they do online is: a high percentage of online poker players drastically overestimate their skill level. While this is true of all games online, this overestimation is more concentrated in big bet games. Mediocre players suddenly think they are God's gift to poker, the second coming of Bret Maverick, when confronted with the pseudo-complexities of PLO8 -- lots of cards, variable/progressive betting. It's one thing to be a mediocre juggler. It's another thing indeed to be a mediocre juggler who insists on juggling seven flaming machetes. (The other place online where mediocre players drastically overate themselves is at head-up games.)
So, the first thing to understand about online PLO8 games is many of your opponents have poor judgment in terms of true value. People with poor value skills are good people to play against in big bet poker. That understanding should underlie everything you do in the game.
You should be playing more hands in most PLO8 games than you do in limit Omaha8 or PLO High (unless a game has an unusual amount of pre-flop raising). Speculative hands that are garbage in Limit can be nicely profitable in PLO8. The most obvious one is 23xx. In Limit this is the #1 sucker hand. In pot limit the hand can be played, if you play well, because of the implied action you will get. Compare having A2xx on a flop of 873 to having 23xx on a flop of A87. You WILL get more action from players holding aces and eights or aces and sevens than you will from players holding eights and sevens or eights and threes. I've seen a player go for all his chips, putting in the fourth raise on a flop like this where he had AAA. Suicide. He put in all his money just to get it back. Aces have the magical ability to make people play worse.
Most players greatly over-fixate on winning pots. If they put a nickel into a pot, you darn near need a crowbar to pry them away from pouring millions in to chase that nickel. Proper PLO8 play is directly counter to this, which is why most players are not suited for the game. You should easily fold most of the hands you play. PLO8 is mostly a game of homeruns. Big pots. Big edges. Big betting. You aren't looking to hit many PLO8 doubles. You don't want to mix it up in a lot of pots. You want to get out early, or be gladly shoving all your chips in by the end. The only way you want to hit singles in PLO8 is by making bets on the flop that nobody calls. This can occur two ways. The first is obvious, you bet a hand that should be bet and nobody calls. You can't put a gun to people's heads and make them call, so just take the pot and wait for the next time. The other small pot/singles to look for are "orphan" pots -- pots nobody seems to want. These are pots you can make one bet at, and then you are done. If you win the pot, great, if you get called you back off and very seldom continue to try to win the pot. A simple example, the flops is QsJs9s. You have Ad2d5hKs. You have two opponents. The first opponent checks. You bet. You should win this pot right here more than half the time. If you get called or raised, you just give up. You are bluffing these pots, but you are bluffing when your opponents have very little. Their very little just happens to beat your very little.
Betting and taking orphans should keep you hovering around playing breakeven poker. The key pots are where you look to get your profit. Also, you need to bet at orphan pots because you don't want to always and only be betting when you have an enormous hand.
While betability is the overriding concept at work in PLO8, there are two specific situations that you should look for: the freeroll and the 3/4. Getting in situations where you can do one or the other of these is the reason to play the game.
The Freeroll. While 3/4ing is important, freerolling is much more so. Freerolls come in a variety of types, but the common theme is you are getting a free shot at your opponent's money. (For practical purposes, the idea of a freeroll should also include "near freerolls" like on a flop of QJT and you have AKQQ while your opponent has AK22. He can beat you by making four deuces, but despite that ability to make a 1000-to-1 shot, we will still consider that near freeroll to be a "freeroll".)
Some freeroll examples:
Flop - QsJdTc; Opponent - AcKd2h3s; You - AsKsQcJc
Flop - 3s4d5c; Opponent - AcKd2hQs; You - As2s7c8c
Flop - As8h7h; Opponent - AhAdKhQs; You - 2s3s5d6c
In each of these examples, your opponent is drawing 100% dead. He cannot beat you no matter what cards come on the turn and river. AND, you will get action from most opponents who hold these hands... especially from bad players who will often intentionally go for all their chips, particularly with the first hand.
The Ace-high Broadway straight is similar to how 23xx is in Limit Omaha8. Weak players lose more money with this hand than any other. Good players win their money when freerolling these hands. AK on a QJT flop, AQ on a KJT one, AJ on a KQT one, AT on a KQJ one... these are the hands that separate the adults from the kiddies. Weak players not only commit suicide on these hands, but also can't even comprehend that they should often be folding the current-nut-hands like they were poison. All forms of Omaha are about making the best hand, not what is currently best. There is no leader money in poker. The ability to fold the current nut hand is absolutely critical in PLO8... and fortunately, most players are simply incapable of it. When you flop one of these Broadway straights, you should ask yourself "what am I trying to make?" If the answer is "I want to make only the same straight as I have now", in other words, you are drawing to a blank on the turn and a blank on the river, you don't have much of a hand.
Another type of freeroll is the "freeroll to a bluff":
Flop - 6s7s8d; Opponent - 9sTdJcJh; You - As2h3d4c
In this hand, neither one of you has any chance at all of making a hand that beats the other one. Big, fat zero. But you have a freeroll to a river bet where you should be making significant money. No matter what the action is on the flop and turn, if the river card comes a board pair, or a flush card (especially if it is a flush card that pairs the board), a pot-size bet by you will force your opponent to fold -- and even if he calls, that is fine because that means he will call you when you happen to have the flush or full house.
Notice in this example how important pot manipulation is. If you have intentionally bet yourself all-in before the river card, you are an idiot. Your chance to win money here is by betting the river (or turn) card and getting a fold. You can't get a fold if either you or he is all-in! On the other hand, you want the pot big enough so that you can make a large enough bet to get him to fold. There is a definite science to getting pots the right size when you are on a freeroll to a bluff. Also notice, it is much better to error on the side of not building the pot big enough, and thus not being able to make a big enough bet to get a fold. That error is much less bad than the error of getting one or the other of you all-in. You can never win when somebody is all-in. When you can make a river bet of any size, you will win sometimes. Even if a pot is $400 and you can only bet $100 on the river, you will still win some percentage of the time greater than the 0% of the time you win when one of you is all-in.
A final freeroll example is the most obvious:
Flop - 6s7s8d; Opponent - 9cTdJsJd; You - As2s3d4c
Here, opposite of the freeroll to a bluff, you want to get all the money into the pot as soon as you can. Your opponent can never beat you, but you will scoop him once in awhile. Notice in the above example I've contrived the hands to where your opponent would make a backdoor flush if it came, which would make your ability to bluff a river card that didn't make you a winner much tougher. Suppose he didn't have those diamonds. Now, by betting him all-in and winning when you make your spade flush, you are GIVING UP your chance to win the pot via a freeroll bluff on the river if it comes a diamond or board pair. What you have is TWO freeroll opportunities that work against each other! This game is starting to get complicated... You have two betability issues here that you have to balance given your opponent, his betting habits, how deep the stack sizes are, how poorly your opponent plays (a terrible opponent could easily go broke the very next hand, so I would lean to putting him all-in and hope I make my flush and get all his chips, rather than look to make a smaller amount of chips via occasional river bluffs when I miss but it comes a card he doesn't like), etc.
Of course, not all freerolls are this obvious. In the previous example you are vulnerable to being 3/4ed by hands like A238. You can't see your opponent's cards, so you seldom get super-obvious freerolls. However, not only do fairly clear freerolls present themselves, you need to be thinking how sometimes you ARE freerolling when you don't know it. The freeroll should be the concept in the front of your mind... which also means: DON'T GET FREEROLLED! On a 678 flop, you should fold 9TJJ to almost any bet. It may be the nuts, but you are probably drawing dead. You may have to put in many chips to split a puny amount already in play. You may be freerolled and 3/4ed at the same time by A29T.
Folding the nuts is something you should do fairly often in PLO8, and it doesn't have to be high-type hands like the JJT9. On a flop of 8s7s6s you should usually toss Ad2dKhQh into the muck when faced with any bet. Don't get freerolled.
3/4ing a pot. Though dwarfed in significance by freerolls, 3/4ing is more common. 3/4ing usually occurs when two people both have the nut low, but it also happens sometimes when both players have the same high and one makes some kind of low. A much longer discussion than we have space for here, clearly it is a huge skill in being able to correctly discern when you are getting 3/4s as opposed to when you are getting 3/4ed. Some situations are obvious, like when you make the nut flush to go with a nut low, but most of the time your hand won't be nearly so defined. When you have A238 and the board is 348QK, are you getting 3/4s or getting 3/4ed? How about 348Q4? Do you bet the pot? Do you make a smaller bet? Check? Raise if an opponent makes a small bet? There is a bottomless pit of situations and subtleties to be considered, but a player who makes bets when 3/4ing and who checks when being 3/4ed will do a helluva lot better than a person who does it the other way around!
Pot Limit Omaha High LowJust like when you have the nut Broadway straight you should ask yourself what you are drawing to, when you have the nut low the first thing you should ask yourself is: what is my high hand? And then, what is the high hand I am trying to make? The nut low aspect of the hand is relatively unimportant (even if most players fixate on low).
The key word in PLO8 is "and". When you show down you want to be saying, "I have low AND..." If there is no "and", you usually don't have much. "And" is what to focus on when you have nut low. If you have no "and", checking and even check/folding will often be your correct action. Don't get me wrong though, before the showdown "and" can include the fact that you are drawing to a bluff. A naked nut low plays fine against people who don't have nut low!
Correctly value-betting hands like two pair, like when you hold A24Q and the board is 478KQ, or even one pair like when you have A237 and a board is 457KQ, is a challenge you have to strive to accomplish. Reading opponents, especially when you are out of hand, is a task you should always be working on when playing PLO8. "Better betting" when doing the 3/4ing and when getting 3/4ed should be the result of a never-ending study of your PLO8 opponents. It is the ongoing challenge that every player can do better and better.
One thing that should be clear from both the discussion of freerolling and 3/4ing is the dramatically more important role suited cards play in PLO8 compared to Limit. You want "and". Flushes are just another way to make a bettable "and". And flushes are never 3/4ed. They are either good or they aren't.
Besides their 3/4ing value, flushes can turn splits into scoops. Suppose you make the nut flush on the river against an opponent who only has the nut low: Board - 4s5c8dKsQs; Opponent - Ac2c3dJh; You - As3s6d7c
In this case the river card changed things not at all, but you now can safely make a pot size bet. Say the pot is $1000, and you bet that. The best your opponent can do is get half. If he calls, he gets $1500. But he has to consider that if he calls and gets 3/4ed, he gets back $750, so calling the $1000 bet costs him $250. You will get your opponents to fold some amount of time over 0% in situations like this. Pure profit.
Similarly, suppose instead you hold As2s4dTc. In this case the river card again didn't change things. You had your opponent 3/4ed already with a pair of fours. But how often are you going to be able to value bet a pair of fours? How often should you TRY to value bet a pair of fours? By making a much more bettable flush than your measly pair of fours you now can bet the $1000 pot. When you do, if your opponent calls, you make that extra $250. And, if he doesn't call, making the flush won you the $250 that was already in the pot (his 1/4 share of the pre-bet $1000 pot).
Suitedness makes hands more bettable, and it makes another way you can make an "and". As2s3d4d is a much more profitable hand than As2c3d4h. If you could just wish it and have it be so, you would want your cards to always be suited and your opponent's cards to never be suited. Don't fall into the trap some inexperienced players do when they see "action-killing flops" of three of the same suit. They wrongly conclude suits won't bring you much. That is silly. Pots on the flop are relatively small. We don't much care about on-the-flop pots. We care about being in a position to bet hands on the river, when the pot and bets are biggest. Make-a-flush-on-the-river boards are where the clearest exchange of money/value takes place in PLO8. You can't tie flushes, only one winner. And, betting/pseudo-bluffing opportunities present themselves where pure low hands can blow high hands out of pots. It's an oversimplification, but it could be asserted that when you aren't suited you want pots to be decided on the flop and turn; when you are suited, you want to be putting in action on the river -- and again, the money in the game is in making river bets when the pots and possible bets are biggest.
If any game is NOT the game of the future, this is it. But when the game is played, and non-good players are involved, it presents an excellent opportunity for solid, positive expectation poker by focusing on a few key concepts: betability, "and", suitedness, 3/4ing, freerolling. PL Omaha Hi+ Show Spoiler +
"Philadelphia fans would boo funerals, an Easter egg hunt,
a parade of armless war vets, and the Liberty Bell."
-- Bo Belinsky
Rec.gambling.poker once had a discussion about Pot Limit Omaha High worth repeating here. Peter Lizak started it by writing: "I would rather play AKQJ over AA24. AA kinda sucks alone. It needs back up. Think of it like chess. The queen is powerful, but you don't shove her into enemy territory without support."
My view is that if a player would rather play AKQJ for all his chips head-up, then he needs to hit the lottery quick. Full table Pot Limit Omaha is not about cards very much. It is first and foremost position, position, position. If the chips are deep, position renders everything else trivial. If the chips are not deep, you want to get all-in or close to it before the flop with AAxx. You are a significant dog to nothing, besides a dominating other AA hand, and a good favorite over most.
Raising first under the gun with AAxx is suicide, not because AAxx is bad, but because raising under the gun in PLO is foolish with any hand. Limp and reraise if the chips are short and you can get all-in. If the chips are deep you should be limp/fold almost everything -- though the weaker your opponent, the more likely he is to foolishly dump chips post-flop while drawing near dead, the more hands you can call with. If you are playing with players in the same skill ballpark as you, the main reason to play hands out of position in PLO is to encourage other people to play out of position. That is really and truly the main reason. You want to limp and fold, while they limp and call your raises when you are in position. If you limp and are allowed to see the flop cheaply, then you just play poker with the hand you flop -- which should be a strong one since you should not play terribly weak hands out of position. (Of course, if you are playing against opponents much weaker than yourself, then you can play more hands out of position and play them more aggressively, but still, even against very weak opponents your edge will be far greater when you are in position versus out of position.)
Pot Limot OmahaOne thing to keep in mind though is that PLO is the game most different in casinos compared to online. The online cardrooms have buy-in limits that prevent you from playing the normally sensible way -- buying yourself a big stack of chips. They have capped buy-in amounts and thus require you to play small stack PLO (until you win your way to a big stack). In that way, AAxx is a much better hand online than in a casino, since any pot size reraise will often be over half your stack.
But again, assuming deepish stacks, PLO is position and betting. A solid player who understands the game and has deep chips, can play 3579 in position and eat up AAKK, while also playing AAKK in position to eat up 3579.
Most any hand can eat up a better hand that is out of position.
If someone wants to make a pot raise under the gun with AAKK or AAJT, I'll play the big majority of hands against them if we have deep chips. This is especially true if I can put the player on AA with great confidence. The player in position will generally lose small pots and win much bigger ones. This is why you can't get good PLO games with only good players. They become utterly pointless. You need players playing out of position for a lot of chips for the game to exist.
Another person then wrote that in a multiplayer pot you can get more out of the AKQJ, and that such multiplayer pots weaken AA42 quite a lot.
I replied that this was not saying much, unless we know specific hands, and the position of those hands. AKQJ offsuit is a very lame hand multiway when AA is also out, and more so when you have other big card players in the pot. The Broadway straight is the #1 sucker hand of PLO where people get freerolled for all their chips. Also, a hand like AdKdQJ is not great because you have the key payoff card that you want in an opponent's hand, the K of diamonds.
AAxx should be looking to play pots headup, via a pot raise in position or a pot reraise out of position. If it can't manage one of these scenarios it should commonly be limped before the flop, then folded when the flop misses. If you do see a flop out of position for a limp multiway, AAxx is vastly superior to AKQJ because the way AA will hit the flop is either an Ace, or a nut flush draw with a small pot. In either case you are in fine shape. AKQJ hits sucker flops, two pair against sets, straights against the same straights with flush outs. Only very rarely will you have the best freeroll with the nut straight and top two pair, and that is only four outs. A suited ace, flopping the Broadway straight and having the nut flush draw, there you have a hand, and it comes along pretty rarely!
Like No Limit Hold'em, even more so, Pot Limit Omaha is a card game that is only a little about cards. Personalities, chip stack size and table position dictate play much more than the spots on the pasteboards.
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In response to two recent emails I thought I better clarify a few things... The above article was originally written about full table PLO. In a full game, three off the button is in position; in a six-handed game, three off the button is first to act! These situations are not similar. The less players, the more blinds you have to pay, so the impact of the blinds on your play will be greater, as it will on other players too. Also, as stated above, online games with restricted buy-ins are a different sort of game than casino games where players often have 1000x big blinds or more in front of them. And of course, the level of play in online games is far weaker than full, casino PLO games (where tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars can be in play with some of the best all-around players in the world), so you can typically play many more hands online.
You make money in poker by playing when you have a positive mathematical expectation. The weaker the players, the more often you will be able to get a positive expectation... so you can limp with more hands, bluff more hands from both out of position and in position, play more hands out of position for a raise, raise with weaker hands, etc. A winning PLO player can win from every seat at the table, but generally when out of position you should be playing smaller pots before the flop, while in position you want to be looking for pots to play for all your chips, while ALSO doing what is the core principal of winning poker: achieving and identifying when you have a mathematical advantage over your opponents. This can be from having position, from a liveone being drunk, from an opponent misreading a hand or a lot of other things. The key to PLO is position, but the key to all poker is to play when the math is on your side. Omaha vs NLHE+ Show Spoiler +
The hottest fires in hell are reserved for those
who remain neutral in times of moral crisis.
-- Edmund Burke
Technically, the word "Holdem" refers to the some-cards-in-your-hand/some-cards-on-the-board, four betting rounds structure. But it has commonly become associated with the Texas version. Texas Holdem is generally considered "Holdem", while Omaha Holdem is merely "Omaha." Birthed of the same mother structure, Omaha and Holdem have similarities, but like siblings they also have dramatic differences when it comes to winning strategy. Understanding these sibling differences can lead to each of us making better game selection choices and recognizing our own strengths as poker players.
Some of the differences stem from logistics. When playing in a casino, approximately twice as many hands are dealt an hour in Holdem. Omaha is usually played HiLo. Holdem players usually have a wider variety of games to choose from. Omaha games have more regulars. Besides these things, there are many more complicated differences.
If your aim is to win, Holdem requires more risk-taking, more variance. Winning Holdem is all about exploiting tiny edges, and even more, creating tiny edges. Holdem skill often comes into play in turning 55/45 edges into 60/40 ones. Obviously that is a good, profitable thing to do, but just as obviously it takes something of a long run to make these small edges add up. Great Holdem players find nickels and dimes and dollars of value in hand after hand -- getting free cards, protecting (or not protecting) blinds, value betting, inducing bluffs, etc. Very good winning players don’t depend on showing down AK against KQ on a KJ742 board. Showing the best hand is the bedrock of winning, but it is merely the tip of the iceberg.
Omaha Texas HoldemOmaha has quite a lot of differences. For very good players, Omaha edges are usually huge. Against weak Texas Hold'em opponents, a very good player can play a lot more hands. This is not the case in Omaha. While 76s can sometimes become playable in Holdem, 9764 is never playable in Omaha High Low (outside of maybe putting in one more chip in a two chip small blind) regardless of how lousy your opponents are. While the faster-paced Holdem is all about the application of many tiny edges time and again, glacier-paced Omaha is more about waiting for rare instances of enormous advantage. These huge advantages occur because most players simply do not "get" that when played properly Omaha has very little gamble to it, with less playable hands than Holdem -- especially "playable hands per hour". Loose-ish Omaha games mostly come down to simple math. A pot has so many chips in it, and you have so many outs to make the winning hand. You are either getting the right price, the wrong price, or the very, very right price.
Omaha is tortoise poker. Holdem is for the rabbits. Generally, winning Omaha players make more money per hour (with less variance) than their equally skilled Holdem counterparts. This occurs despite more Holdem hands being played simply because most Omaha players play far worse than the average Holdem player. If a weak player is taking the 40/60 worst of it in Holdem many times, that player is taking the worst of it fewer times against Omaha opponents but the worst of it now is more likely to be 10/90.
Your personal temperament might be better suited for one than the other, but one game is not "better" than the other. While Omaha remains easier money, these days Texas Hold'em offers a much wider array of opportunities to win. Omaha tournaments are still peopled with very weak Omaha players, but the sheer number of Holdem tournaments and the larger amount of people playing Holdem events offsets that. Smaller edges in more events with more people simply returns us to the basic difference between Omaha and Holdem -- you get to apply a small advantage much more often for larger bets. These days, being properly bankrolled is even more important in the past. If you can afford to every five seconds bet $990 on a coin flip to win $1000, soon you will have an awful lot of money. But if you only have $640 to your name, you aren't going to even be able to play, let alone play with an expectation of not going broke due to bad luck. If you are a Holdem player, especially a Holdem tournament player, keep your powder dry... take loving care of your bankroll.
Profit comes in different ways, and you have to be capable of catching it. Omaha Point Count Systems+ Show Spoiler +
Steve, the Intro that you wrote is very good. It just about sums up my entire knowledge of the game and how I try to play in the local Mississippi HiLo games. The games are usually 3-6 Kill, 4-8 half kill, 5-10 Kill and 10-20 Kill. The game I play in most is a 3-6 Kill at the Silver Star in central Mississippi. Most of the other games are about 3 hours away in Tunica and on the Coast.
My game is still developing, but I am still an overall winner the last three years. Omaha HiLo has been the most consistent money maker for me since I realized the edge Omaha presents. You and Dr. Ed Hutchison have been my mentors. I kept seeing Doc Hutchison constantly stacking up his chips and going home a winner. I flat out asked for help. He pointed me to his webpage with the point count system. Your Lee Munzer interview in Poker Digest also played a significant role. I studied Doc's system and used it for 4-5 sessions. It worked. I won. I haven't used it in a game in over 2 years.
Before I started using Doc's system I had no clue about what a good starting hand could be. I knew A-2 was good. I also thought 2-5 was nice. Doc's system helped me focus on what the good hands are in Omaha. I really had no other way to learn.
The tuition for learning Omaha in live games can be rather expensive. Doc's system in effect gave me a scholarship. In addition, I was able to skip a few elementary grades because I now had learned the basic starting hands that are profitable in Omaha. Sure a point count system is a crutch, but the long term goal is to throw away the crutch and walk on your own two feet.
A few comments on sections from your fine introduction:
INTRODUCTION TO OMAHA STRATEGY (ITOS) - "but it is very easy to teach a player to play way-above-average Omaha... but the basic advice is to play with great discipline... but having discipline is an advanced skill... and is boring as paste."
COMMENT - Right on the mark. This also gives some justification for early use of Doc's system. It is rather tight and if a player follows it they will have great discipline before the flop.
ITOS - "Starting hands... Unlike Holdem, where post-flop play is far more critical, winning Omaha fundamentally begins with starting hands. Starting hands exist before the flop, which is where you get enormous edges in Omaha against a field."
COMMENT - I hate to use your words to back up my belief in Doc's system as a learner's tool, but the strong starting hand nature of Omaha makes Doc's system useful for a beginner. Of course, you get your edge by knowing what to do with a starting hand. At least, a beginner can start with a hand with an edge.
ITOS - "Not counting AA and perhaps KK, Holdem hands run much closer in value than Omaha hands do -- urban myths not to the contrary. If you don't know and appreciate this basic concept, you are going to be in trouble in Omaha. Omaha has a fairly large group of hands that will win at double the rate of randomish hands. Few Holdem hands can say the same."
COMMENT - This may be what is deceiving some people. Omaha has more hands that can be big winners. Holdem probably has more hands can just be a small winner. Thus, I will play more hands before the flop in Holdem. I just will not win big with many of them.
ITOS - "Before the flop: you should play hands that have a high expectation; you should manipulate the pot size; you should try to manipulate your opponents so that when you have a hand that plays well against fewer opponents you are playing against fewer opponents and when you have a hand that plays well against a full field you are playing against a full field."
"After the flop: the flop is critical. Here you should begin to roughly calculate the probabilities and deduce how favorable your chances are to win. Again, here a player should be manipulating the pot -- get more chips in when the odds favor you, try to minimize when you have a longer shot."
COMMENT - I don't think there have been two paragraphs written that better state the "Essence of Winning Low Limit Omaha."
Omaha Point Count SystemsITOS - "The RGP Posts section of this website addresses several fallacies involving Omaha point count systems, and starting hand charts in general. There are a lot of reasons these systems are a bad idea, but the most basic flaw is they view Omaha hands as several two-card units."
"It should be easy enough to see though that while 3d3h is a basically useless Omaha holding on its own, when combined with an As2s it now becomes a powerful aspect of a coordinated hand! Viewing the 33 out of the context of the A2 is a serious error."
COMMENT - Doc Hutchison's system does not look at an Omaha hand as a series of two card units. It takes into account all four cards at once and awards points based on the basic two card low and gives additional points for kickers, pairs and suited cards.
ITOS - "Beyond the simplistic thinking about starting hands, it is critical to think of Omaha hands as four card units after the flop. You might play As2s3dQd, but end up with a flop of Qs9c2c. Before the flop no point-count system would assign the Qd2s aspect of your hand any value, but now here on the flop it is part of your whole hand, and you must think in terms of how you have two pair, a backdoor flush draw, a back door nut low draw, a backdoor wheel draw, etc. Omaha hands are multifaceted and multi-dimensional. They should be viewed and analyzed as integrated wholes, not separate parts. An Omaha hand can be greater than the sum of its parts, or sometimes even less, but Omaha hands are always four cards."
COMMENT - Doc's system, of course, recognizes the power of A-2-3. It also gives additional credence to the suited A, the suited Q and the Q as a kicker. I've dug up my old cheat sheet to show you the actual points here on this hand. A2 = 20 points, 3 kicker = 9 points., suited Ace = 4 points, suited Queen = 2 points, Queen kicker = 2 pts. For a total of 37 points. Twenty points are considered the lower limit for calling in early position. This hand screams raise to build a pot. If I changed the Q kicker to an unsuited nine the hand is lessened in value by four points, but the hand still suggests raise.
I'm sure I will never convince you to change you mind about using Doc's point count system as a learning tool in Omaha. However, I found it to be helpful to me. I'm just anecdotal evidence, but it worked for me.
I couldn't tell you the point value of a single hand I played last night. My cheat sheet for Doc's system is only found in a file on my computer. I haven't needed it for over two years. It was another good night. Three hours of play, positive three big kill bets an hour against a table of regular players who for the most part don't have a clue about "The Essence of Omaha."
Needless to say, I do not plan to distribute copies of your excellent "Introduction" to any of them.
I don't think you have ever met Dr. Ed Hutchison. I and most other players consider him to be the best low limit Omaha HiLo player in Mississippi. He has a Ph.D. in psychology. He is a gentleman and a scholar. I've never seen him on tilt. His discipline is excellent. He combines these strengths with his psychology based people reading skills to outplay everyone pre and post-flop. It is like he can see the front and backs of cards and peer down into player's souls at the same time.
I hope I haven't been too long winded in my COMMENT. Maybe you can see some insight into why Doc's system worked for me and how it could work for some others. I don't think it will work for everyone because most players don't have and don't want the discipline to use it to take an exponential leap in learning starting hands.
Best wishes,
Frank "mredge" Bowen
Carthage, MS Post Flop+ Show Spoiler +
Big Pairs Playing Head-Up Omaha8
Stephen Jacobs wrote...
> In general, high card hands play better against fewer people (especially
> high pairs with high side cards like KKQT or the like). Strong low hands
> with high potential play well against a full field (think AA23 double-suited).
> The reasons you'd prefer fewer opponents for your high cards include the
> possibility that random cards that you could have pushed out before the
> flop might make straights or small flushes that beat your big trips or 2 pairs.
KKQT is one of the last hands I want short-handed and one of the first hands I want at a full table. KKQT would love to play against everybody but is dogmeat against crap hands as bad as 8642. High pairs are very limited hands, but when they make something they make very strong hands. Playing KKQT against one player is suicide (unless you are the one defending your blind).
PlayersOnly.com
> I don't completely follow you. If 8642 has an advantage over KKQT,
> and an early raise has a chance to get 8642 to fold before the flop,
> it seems I'd want to do that.
Most any hand of four unpaired babies will have the edge over KKQT, but three or four of them all hurt each other. KKQT loves playing against eight players playing 8642 muck. It doesn't like just one opponent with that.
> The big advantage in having a lot of opponents is that with a good flop
> you'll have a monster, and know you have one. In the games I play,
> unfortunately, it's pretty rare for people to pay much after a high flop.
Then it's not as good as it could be under other circumstances.
> Concretely: if it's passed to you pre-flop, do you call or raise
> with KKQT (say the QT are suited)?
I'd normally call. I might raise or fold, but I'd still like to get four way action or better, including the blinds.
> If you're right behind a pre-flop raiser, do you call, raise or fold?
I would almost never raise, and would normally call. I want players, and I want to see the flop as cheaply as I can.
> On an A69 (one of your suit) flop, what are you inclined to do?
Go back to vacuuming.
> It seems to me that the damage to the crepe hands (actually, the benefit
> to you) is in the cards being out, not in their being in play against each
> other. People who play such stuff may call along chasing low-only, but they
> don't much raise or call raises unless the flop slams into them. No??
No. Assume a random distribution of cards. The KKQT is a dog to one hand of low cards like 2468 (and worse to one with an ace like A357), but, well a bad Holdem example... AK may be a puny dog to 22, but add in a player with 66 and now the AK is a money favorite while 22 becomes crap. A239 doesn't get mutilated by the 2468 being in play, but the 2468 suffers terribly by the A239 playing.
###
A Crap Hand in the Omaha Blind
ADB Ploink wrote...
> 2) Neither Jerrod not I ever said that this was a hugely +ev
> hand to play. I stated that it was only playable if you flopped huge,
> and only if you could get away from your hand if you didn't.
Which is why the hand is an easy fold. It "flops big" almost never, and when it does it is an action killing flop (like KKJ). The point of playing weak, speculative hands in multiway pots is that when they hit they are bettable in a high action situation. For instance if you play an awful hand like 2379 in this situation, you can drive the betting on flops like A85 and expect to get significant, profitable action. KJs72s offers almost no such opportunities. It does offer plenty of opportunities to draw slim or dead even on "good" flops. If you called all-in getting 19-1 on your money, that would probably be slightly better than folding, but if you have money for post-flop betting, and if there is any chance for a reraise before the flop, it's a disastrous call.
This is why pre-flop raising is so important in Omaha. Hands like this KJ72 will probably be money losers in most players hands if they get a *free ride* in the big blind, let alone calling a raise and facing many opponents.
PacPalBuzz wrote...
> > Steve Badger wrote: "This is why pre-flop raising is so important in Omaha."
> Steve - I don't see the connection between this statement and what you wrote
> in the preceding paragraph. ("Which is why the hand is an easy fold. It "flops
> big" almost never, and when it does it is an action killing flop (like KKJ).
> The point of playing weak, speculative hands in multiway pots is that when they
> hit they are bettable in a high action situation. For instance if you play an
> awful hand like 2379 in this situation, you can drive the betting on flops like
> A85 and expect to get significant, profitable action. KJs72s offers almost no
> such opportunities. It does offer plenty of opportunities to draw slim or dead
> even on "good" flops. If you called all-in getting 19-1 on your money, that
> would probably be slightly better than folding, but if you have money for
> post-flop betting, and if there is any chance for a reraise before the flop,
> it's a disastrous call."
People will call with this crap thinking they are getting pot odds, when they are taking the worst of it by a significant margin. If people will call raises with this junk, it is important to charge them that extra bet.
> Are you saying you would not play a hand where you are getting 17 to 1 on your
> investment and where the odds against facing a favorable flop are only 14.5 to 1
> and where RF's Poker Probe simulation results yielded independently
> determined similar odds of only 14.55-1 against?
I just stuck this hand in Poker Probe, against random hands, not including at least one quality raising hand, and the hand's showdown win rate is in the ballpark of breakeven (I did it 19-1 against nine opponents). This is why I said if you were all-in for the call that it wouldn't be nearly so bad a call compared to if there is betting. Betting destroys this hand. When it flops huge, there is little chance of significant action. When it flops hands where it will sometimes win (like Q74) it gets destroyed by the subsequent betting, even though it wins sometimes.
> You wrote, "Hands like this KJ72 will probably be money losers in most players
> hands if they get a *free ride* in the big blind." An idiot could lose money
> with the hand. But how can it be a money loser to someone who gets a free
> ride and exercises judgment after the flop? I don't see how Ploink or
> Ankenman or Fox or you or I or some of the other posters in this thread
> could lose money with the hand with a free ride in the blind.
I said most players. Good players should make some profit if given a free ride. Give that hand to a typical LA 6/12 player for free though, and they will lose money.
> I agree you don't like the pre-flop raise much holding this dog in the blind.
> However, you do need enough opponents to get favorable odds to call a
> single bet raise to play the hand. Are you saying you don't want many
> opponents, most of whom will be drawing dead when you do connect
> with the flop?
I can only see very limited times when the hand would be playable for a raise... head-up against a complete idiot in the small blind, head-up against a bad player if the small blind folds.
> "Any" seems extreme. "Disastrous" seems the wrong word. Losing
> a big pot you should have won or sharing a big pot you should have
> scooped might be considered "disastrous," but losing one additional
> small bet in a $6-$12 game...? "Disastrous"?? I wish that was the worst
> thing that happened to me playing Omaha-8. :o)
Calling this bet is extremely bad. In the best sort of scenario you put in $6 and there is no further betting and you take out $6.03 or whatever. This isn't a speculative hand like 99xx where you can easily, clearly hit a bettable flop. It's a hand that will usually either be ravaged by betting or win a piddly post-flop amount.
###
Flopping Trips in Omaha
Dennis Hong wrote...
> Basically, I'm figuring that if I can get the folks with random low flush draws
> and/or backdoor low draws (ie, maybe someone has A369 w/the 39 suited)
> to fold, that improves the chances of my trips holding up. I'm not
> expecting someone with a suited ace to fold to a bet, especially if they
> have the backdoor low. But then again, the suited ace may also not be
> out there. Thus, if I can get any low flush draws to fold, maybe...
> just maybe... I can get my trips to hold up even if the 3rd flush card
> *does* hit on the turn/river. My point is, my hand's going to be difficult
> to improve. My opponents' hands, like the A369 example, are longshot
> draws, but can improve more readily.
Why do you say that? You have ten cards to hit on the turn. You have ten cards again on the river. Given a flop of TT5, you also have a lot bricks since any combo of a card below a 5 and one above a ten will not make a straight (not counting aces). Also another five would not be a bad card.
You can't possibly think that it would be better to have A369 with a flush draw rather than JT72 on a TT5 flop.
You mentioned reverse implied odds. Your hand can catch cards that make the others drawing dead, and can re-out on draws that get there on the turn. The hand isn't a monster by any means, but you have the best of it against a few crap hands with crap draws.
> Put enough of them in there, and I might be in a whole lotta trouble.
> Therefore, I'd like to get them out while I'm still in the lead.
> Is that correct thinking?
Get them out, keep them in, you can't force them to do anything. But either way you should be thinking *they* are in more trouble than you.
###
Flopping Three of a Kind in Omaha HiLo
Larry W. (Wayno) Phillips wrote...
> Is there any way to generalize about how to play a set you've flopped,
> or does it depend on the specific game situation, lineup of players, etc?
> (Assume loose, calling-all-the-way type players and mostly unthreatening,
> rainbow-type flops.)
Speaking generally is tough if you say "flopped trips". There is quite a difference between KKK on a K82 flop and 333 on a 345 flop. But lets assume it is KKK or QQQ, and you happen to have not much in the way of other draws (backdoor flush, straight, low...)
> Let's say you've got a pair of queens in your hand, and the flop comes
> Q-3-7 (rainbow). You should try to get as much money as possible in
> the pot, right?
Not necessarily. Getting a lot of money in the pot is fine, but winning Omaha comes from *dead* money, or not-very-alive money anyway. Ideally you want people to lay down hands that are a threat, and gets calls and reraises from hands that are no (or a tiny) threat. If you have KQQJ and your one opponent has 4568 double-suited, you don't want to get "as much" money in as you can. If your one opponent has A299 or Q973, you want billions in the pot. But those are unlikely scenarios. More likely...
> But what if you're in a loose game where 4 or 5 players are consistently calling,
> and nobody is folding as you continue to bet. You KNOW somebody is going to
>"run you down" by the river.
No, you know you have to make your draw to win. It's fairly simple math. You win when you pair the board, and don't get a low. You win a lot less when you pair the board and a low comes. You win sometimes when it comes some combination of 9, T, J, K and nobody makes the straight. You win a lot less sometimes when it comes low but nobody makes a straight. And so on.
Basically, you bet or raise when it comes to you, except maybe when it comes back to you reraised and you want to be sneaky and don't cap it. KKK and QQQ are going to be quite profitable as top set against four or five opponents, but you will lose a lot of the time.
###
Betting an Easily Tied Hand in Omaha8
Ken Kubey wrote...
> What is the reason [for not betting if not to be worried about being]?
> In this example, 9 cards pair the board and probably kill you. 5 cards
> (J's and T's) make higher straights possible possibly killing you.
> 4 cards are safe... the kings. The other 26 cards make a low possible
> and you will be quartered. I'd be pretty worried about pumping this
> pot up *unless* there are 5 or more active players left.
Just do the math on all the various situations. Getting quartered three-way or more runs the spectrum from minimally bad to minimally good. In anything like that, you don't want to put in a lot of money. It leads to a tiny win or a tiny loss when you "win" the pot, but three or four bets are a lot when you get scooped. Obviously putting in four bets just to break even is not great when you do break even, but it's awful when you lose. So again, you shouldn't be thinking in terms of concern about getting quartered, you should be thinking about the fact you will lose sometimes. And, you should gear your play with that in mind.
The other thing to be concerned about being freerolled, even if it is a tiny freeroll -- like one opponent has the straight and two pair, or the straight and any low draw. Once again, the concern should not be on the small loss you have when you are quartered, but on the fact you are drawing stone-cold dead on those bets. In this second case, it may just be a different way to emphasize the same point, but I think it addresses the issue of how to think about the hand.
###
Taking the Initiative in Omaha8
Lee Munzer wrote...
> taking the initiative works better in Holdem
> where you are rarely betting into the nuts.
Taking the initiative in Omaha is important (not the same as "works better" because players are afraid of their own shadows. How often do people think that when you have A3 that an A2 has been dealt to someone else in that same hand? How often do people think they need the A3 to win for not-folding the A3 on an 876 flop to be profitable? Omaha is a game of the nuts, but if some pixie allowed you to have the second nuts every hand, you would make a fortune.
> Since you cherish the deuce, why not try to optimize your chances of getting
> one cheaply by checking? The risk does not equal the reward in this case.
You bet because it makes it cheaper, freezing many/most players who have A2. Checking is more expensive. If your hand is good, you missed a bet. If your hand is a loser, you emboldened the opposition. That is very, very bad in Omaha8.
If A3 is good on this flop X% of the time, and a loser Y% of the time, if after 100% of the times you play it you win money then the actual percentages don't matter. Same with if you lose. The point tho is manipulating the cost (the betting) so that during the X times you maximize your profits, while during the Y times you minimize. Leading from early position on an 876 flop with A3KQ will often slow the action down. You may see the turn for one bet. That is a huge victory... first cause you are glad to see if it comes deuce, and second because if your hand is good you are glad to have gotten that one bet in there. If you get a couple callers and a raise, you can safely muck. The best defense with A3 often is a good offense. Starting Hands+ Show Spoiler +
Omaha HiLo Starting Hands
HrgSmes wrote...
> Question came up in connection with a tightening up and improvement
> of my Omaha 8 game, consequent -- don't know if you read the post -- to my
> using TJ Cloutier's strategies in his Omaha book, and articulating these with
> my discovery that the Turbo Omaha8 program... count strategies for RERAISED
> hands only, give you a good approach to the game. Cloutier suggests always
> having a backup card to A 2 and A 3, including the 6, but his approach to A 4
> and A 5 isn't as clear as it should be.
Focusing on hands without a game texture is not a very good idea. For example, AK54 is a terrific reraising hand in a tight game, and a solidly profitable hand in a loose game, but it is in trouble in a game right smack in the middle of those two.
A54 is a uniquely strong Omaha holding in that if *any* low is made, especially flopped, your hand going to be well-integrated with the board. This is not true of A24, or A25 or even A35. These hands have greater low strength, but they have a tougher time making a hand that scoops the pot. It's no coincidence that a lot of people like Holdem hands like 54 or 56 or 53 or 57. A five is a very good card in flop game poker, especially in Hilo split.
Omaha8 Starting Hands and Point Count Systems
Ken Kubey wrote...
> Pairs 88 thru 33 should have a negative value attached.
A233, A244, A255, A288.... these are terrific hands, and feature examples of holdings that have no value on their own (88 say) but can add tremendously to the value of another seemingly unrelated independent holding (A2 for example).
Omaha is a game where a hand consists of four cards. Point count systems that value two card holdings can sometimes correctly discern the approximate value of a hand, but they are missing the point of the game. Hands do not work that way. Players should not think about hands that way. Values within a hand are not independent, and it's a fundamental mistake to think they are.
Ken Kubey wrote...
> In your 'terrific' hands' examples you include A288. I'm struggling to see the
> value of what appear to be uncoordinated 8's. The 5's and 4's I can see have
> possible low+straight+set-making value. Could you explain?
If A2 is going to be any good, there needs to be a combination of at least three different cards 3,4,5,6,7,8. Any of these combos that includes an 8 should be obviously please. Any of these combos that do not include an 8, make two eights an overpair to at least 3/5ths of the board, which if you manipulate the pot properly will often be able to win high.
The reason to play A2 is not because A2 is such a super great hand. It is a profitable holding on it's own, but you play A2 so that you can essentially get a freeroll on the other two cards in your hand. In the case of A288, there will be a lot of flops where you can really drive the action multiway, even besides the obvious ones like 873. Flops like like 987, Ks8s3s, 447, 369... boards where betting A2 would make no sense, now become betting hands with the 88. The 88 is not a holding that is going to be super useful very often, but when it is, it will usually come into play in a big pot where you are getting way the best of it.
###
Pre-Flop Omaha HiLo Play
Panama wrote...
> Ah, nice to see that this lunacy isn't restricted to the low-limit
> Omaha8 Paradise games. A question, Badger: I've been playing
> O8 down there for a while now and love the game, but I'm making
> really slow progress money-wise. The reason seems to be that it's
> *very* hard to scoop unless I back into a nut high with no low possible.
Ace-baby-suited, plus pot manipulation so that you get people to fold on the end when you represent a hand you don't have. That only happens rarely in low limit but one half a pot a day is quite a lot of money. But see below...
> The reason for *that* seems to be that players stay in with almost any 4 cards,
> so somebody will probably get their high hit pretty hard by the board, meaning
> I'm usually fighting for the low half and often being quartered there.
If you have tons of players, getting quartered is still profitable, and all you have to do is hit your flush draw or gut shot straight draw on rare occasion to make a dandy hit. But see below...
> e.g. if the board allows a low with, say, 874, someone in those family pots
> is almost guaranteed to have stuff like K965
Fine. See below.
> Just keep grinding with respectable hands, or play even tighter?
I don't like the word tighter here because that is misleading. You want to play suited aces, and you really want them with good other cards. But still see below...
> Also, reading McEvoy and Cloutier's Omaha book I noticed the part where they
> say "no Omaha hand is worth an initial raise". This makes sense to me as you
> don't have a hand till you see the flop. Do you agree with them?
I believe that is in their Pot Limit book. It's totally wrong for the type of game online. You should be raising with *most* of the hands you play. THAT is where you make your money in loose Omaha8 games. You want to charge all the players who have hands like K965. Sure, one of the five of them might split the pot with you, but the other ones contributed to that pot. Aside from playing good starting cards, there is simply no better game tactic for loose Omaha8 games than commonly/sensibly raising before the flop. First under the gun with A225, hell no don't raise, but after two limpers, absolutely raise.
Omaha8 is starting hands. Starting hands exist before the flop. That is where you get enormous edges in the game against a field. On the turn you'll get plenty of times where some players are even drawing dead, and that is clearly the juiciest money in the game, but the simplest, most direct, most necessary way to beat these games is to get more money in the pot when you have A255 and several of your opponents have hands like K965.
###
Omaha HiLo Hand Selection
John Silveira wrote...
> Badger,
> 1) What hands an O8 beginner should consider playing when defending the BB.
> 2) What hands to consider playing when completing the SB and which hands to
> to consider playing when there's one raise.
Game liveliness makes a big difference, but as for a raise when you are in the small blind, basically you should play whatever hands that you would play on the button. In my normal game there isn't any hand that I would add in the small blind that I wouldn't play on the button for two bets. (Unless when you say "defending" the big blind you mean head-up. That's a different story than multiway.)
> I call one raise (only) if I'm the Big Blind with at least three high cards
> (ten to Ace, no trips, of course) and I'll complete the Small Blind with
> the same hand. It's the possibility of the high straight or a high full
> house along with the times two high pairs just win that I'm looking for.
> Naturally, the hand is always better when it also contains a flush possibility.
You should be mucking these that don't have an ace at least until you become more sure of yourself.
> I'll play four to a middle-size straight or three to a middle-size straight
> that has a pair, from the blinds to either call one bet in the Big Blind or
> complete the Small Blind.
These are always crap. Muck them.
> I'll complete the SB or defend the BB with any A3 or 23 or an A4 where
> the Ace is suited. And, of course, I'll play any low hands I consider
> better than these.
23 is the hand that costs inexperienced players the most money. It shouldn't be the worst hand in Omaha, but for most players it probably is.
---
Ed Canuck wrote...
> I understand that you don't have a lot of use for point count systems
> in Omaha8, primarily because you feel that the entire hand should be
> treated as a coordinated unit, not just combinations of 2 cards. It seems
> to me that the Hutchison system tries to take this into account and does a
> pretty good job. Could you give some examples of opening hands that you
> feel the system either undervalues or overvalues and your reasoning?
Undervalues.... As6sAd7d. This was discussed earlier this year. See the January RGP Posts page. As for overvalues, in the hands of most players, a naked 23 should be rated a negative value, certainly not positive. I believe more money is lost on that holding than any other.
> What would constitute your minimum calling hand with 23 in an unraised pot?
For most players... outside the blinds... nothing. I'd play 2s3s4c5c most of the time, and in a really loose passive game it would be okay for most players, but as a general rule 23 should just be mucked. It *should* be profitable in many players hands when it comes with a 4, 5 or is double suited, but I would guess probably isn't, because most players won't play it well after the flop.
---
mph wrote...
> Barf. KK9Tds makes a bunch of non nut hands. In a full ring you almost
> have to have the A of your suit land in order to be able to push this hand.
> Otherwise your going to be winning little halfs and losing big halfs.
> Cheap in this case should mean your happily rapping in the big blind
> or a post. I can't find my poker probe disk at the moment but I highly
> doubt KK9Tds even wins its fair share. Anybody got a simulator handy
> to run the showdown numbers?
Just ran KsKdTs9d in a 100,000 hand, nine-handed, no foldem simulation on Poker Probe. The hand scooped 9073 times. It won high in a split another 12,762 times. With this hand in the field, the random hands were able to scoop in the 3200 neighborhood. The is a HUGE hand in this situation. It gets a piece of the pot about 21.8% of the time nine-handed. (I'm not sure how Poker Probe allocates 1/4 pots.)
Few players recognize the strength of KK in loose Omaha games. Pass the barf over here. Unlike most other strong Omaha hands though, it is very dependent on the flop, and in a tight game it's crap. A similar hand, AAT9 double suited scooped 7729 times, and won half another 15,999 times.... getting a piece 23.7%.
---
MGOZ wrote...
> I recently read your Omaha Poker Strategy and have since started
> playing the micro limits at Paradise. I was wondering where I can get
> more insight into starting hand selection (not a chart, I know how much
> you love them) as well as the deeper intricacies of the game. Just to let
> you know I thought you Omaha intro was amazingly informative and has
> helped me play some real solid omaha8 (for a newbie). I'm curious about
> your view of a hand like As9s3d4h, is this playable, hands like this confuse
> me a bit but I think they are playable am I a fool or on track to making
> some headway as Omaha player.
Since your thread title mentioned Holdem, I assume you come to Omaha from a Holdem background so you likely may not appreciate the intricacies of low-hand poker. You play a little while and you'll get that though. At Paradise micro-limits, hands like you describe can safely be played for one or two bets any time. Even if this hand is not the best one out there, probably three people are in each pot with very poor hands. Take-the-flop percentages in these games usually are between 45 and 55%.
If you approach the flop with caution with a hand like this, against four opponents, and then play post-flop correctly, the hand will do great. This hand gets people into trouble if they play poorly post-flop (like calling two bets with a AK7 flop). A big bunch of the starting hands you will want to play in Omaha don't take that much sense to play post-flop. This group of more speculative hands should just be viewed as needing to hit the flop more squarely. If you don't wildly chase when you are drawing slim, this hand is the sort of hand a newbie should be learning how to play. It would be nicely profitable for an excellent player in these games, and newbies should be learning how to get to that point.
###
Rate an Omaha8 Hand
Dreadz11 wrote...
> A couple of weeks ago there was a thread on here where Badger
> and some others were saying AQ88 suited was a payable hand.
> Part of the argument was that Badger believed flopping trip 8s
> gave you a good hand. Please explain why AQ88 is a better hand
> than TT99 double suited.
The value of the AQ88 was first in a suited ace. It's second value is AQ. It's third value is 88. The top value of TT99 is flopping a set. It's straight power is very vulnerable because either there will be a low or there will be a good chance it is only second nut, especially if it ends up being only a one card straight.
A suited ace is the prime nut hand in a nut game. You can't make a better flush than an ace flush, except a rare straight flush. TT99 will normally and easily not make a nut hand, or even will be vulnerable to obscure hands (like on the turn a board is 9554, so any picture card might kill it). Besides straight flushes, nut flushes have precisely one mortal enemy -- a board pair. Sure, if you flop a ten or a nine, you will make money, but as the prime draw it is a lousy one.
But remember, the other hand was AQ88 on the button with five limpers. Calling with TT99 in the same situation would be okay -- about the only time it should be played outside the blinds.
If I'm in the big blind, I'd much rather have As9s99 than 9876o. The first is an extremely easy hand to play, that has a very clear target hand. The second is a bunch of nightmares. AQ88 is mostly a straightforward hand. The TT99 can lead to more sorts of make-a-draw-dead-payoff hand.
###
Differences in the Value of a Suited Ace in Omaha
PacPalBuzz wrote...
> I see your point about the reduction in value of A234 without a suited
> ace, but isn't AKQJ reduced in value by approximately the same amount
> without a suited ace? The hands posted by Lee both have suited aces.
No.
> So I'm wondering if you intentionally singled out A234 and didn't include
> AKQJ or if not including AKQJ was simply an oversight. If they shouldn't
> both have been included, then I'm missing something.
10,000 poker probe hands, ten handed fields, all opponents are random hands...
AsKsQcJd
Scoops 794 times
AsKhQcJd
Scoops 632 times
As2s3c4d
Scoops 648 times
As2h3c4d
Scoops 299 times
The offsuit big cards would scoop at a rate of about 80% compared to if the ace was suited. The offsuit baby cards would scoop at a rate of about 46% compared to if the ace was suited. The change in strength isn't in the same ballpark.
###
Bad Hands That Look Good
A hand being discussed (2s3s4d7h in Omaha) makes me think of the data one cardroom put out about the actual results of all Holdem hands for the first six million games played on their site.
Notice that the hands that lost the most money are obviously not the "worst" hands possible. The biggest money loser (not coincidentally) is 32s. It lost more than 32o or 72o. Then also, A2o lost more than 32o.
One thing to take from this is pretty darn clear... overvaluing crap cards is a kiss of death. Hands that should do better than other hands (32s should do better than 32o) end up doing markedly worse because people play them and think they "have" something. These sort of statistics are impossible for Omaha, but my view is that 23 is the single most costly Omaha holding in the hands of 90% of the players... and it holds that distinction by far. 234 is a big improvement, adding the 7 helps, and adding a suit does too, but anyone who thinks this is a "good" hand is surely going to lose a lot of money with it.
Again, this scenario is about the best possible for the hand (besides a free ride in the blind of course), but the hand is still highly speculative and will be a money loser for non-good players. Contrast this to A347 and even a non-good player will have a profitable hand on the button.
Winning Omaha is about scooping pots where you can bet your hands. This hand is nearly the antithesis of that. It has very low scoop strength, needs an awful lot of help to even make a hand, and is not very bettable. And, if ever there was a hand that had "please quarter me" around it's neck, this is it.
###
Loose Preflop Omaha Calls
Izmet Fekali wrote ...
> Badger wrote: "pots are raised less often in Omaha."
> What a wonderful argument for playing looser In Omaha.
> Seeing the flop is not that cheap in typical Holdem games.
Hardly any Omaha hands that are not winners for two bets become miraculously winners for one bet. I wrote a whole section in my Introduction to Omaha Strategy on the reverse schooling phenomenon in Omaha, which is something that apparently some players have no understanding of.
Getting in cheap with a losing hand is no reason to play the hand! General Strategy+ Show Spoiler +
Raising Before the Flop in Omaha8
> John wrote...
> > I know people who never raise pre-flop and they do very well at O8.
Sean Duffy replied...
> It's possible to do very well with a major leak in your game.
Mary can still win if she never raises before the flop if she plays good starting hands and very well post-flop -- and her opponents are absolute dopes. But never raising before the flop is a sign of a bad poker player. If that bad player plays with *worse* players, then that bad player can still win. Omaha is to a large degree about starting hands. To state the obvious, starting hands exist before the flop. Putting in more money when you have a good starting hand and when your opponents have crappy ones is basic Omaha8.
Some people don't think starting hands matter in Omaha8, and God bless them. Also, many mediocre players who do understand Omaha is about starting hands don't "get" that starting hands only exist before the flop. If most of Omaha is starting hands, then aggressively betting your hands before the flop should be an obvious conclusion.
Sean Duffy wrote...
> In a typical low limit game I think failing to raise before the flop is a huge error.
To say the least. I don't expect to get a hand this good (AA45 double-suited) in any hour I play online, or two in a casino.
> Your low possibilities aren't great, but who wants to win half a pot?
Low strength is half pot strength. It's not the reason to play a hand. The low strength of AA45 is underrated though. It's as if people think there are a jillion low cards out there... if it comes an Ace, fine. If it comes 876, ok. If it comes either a deuce or a three, fine. What is the problem? If it comes 874, fine, muck if you want.
What does anybody out there who doesn't want to raise think those three limpers... or *anybody*... has that is better than AA45? The reasons to raise are many, starting with you have a much better hand than at least 2/3 of the current opposition, and including that you want to at least *try* to get rid of 23. Of course anytime a sucker wants to call a raise with 23 that is fine too. And if you got a sissy willing to muck A3, that's fine too.
It wasn't clear to me that Tony was asking about As4sAd5d, but if he was, in a nine-handed showdown simulation (10,000 hands) this hand scoops 1187 of the time, gets high 2219, and gets low (including scoops when there is no low) 2970. The random hands win something like 465/975/890. These are just showdown numbers, but it should show this is a fine hand.
A lot of players seem to think that to bet one bet you need a hand of X value, but to raise you need a hand of 5X value. They also seem to not think about what the other players have.
###
Monsters Under the Omaha Bed
Lee Munzer wrote...
> In the low limit games, approximately 1/2 my opponents will only raise with
> premium ace type hands, thus I can find better places to invest my money
> than to call or reraise with AA76.
You are making the argument that you would fold AK in a Holdem game because two opponents raise with AQ. AA76 becomes much better because of the two raises. In fact this is *ideal*. Your hand almost certainly dominates both opponents. There just are almost no better Omaha8 situations than this.
> What I've found is unless someone like you or Men "The Master" is
> playing in my low limit Omaha8 game, when two players raise, I can
> read at least one of these duel raisers for a premium (ace containing)
> hand -- if not both more readily and confidently than I can isolate raising
> hands in low limit HE, where, for example, two early raisers can hold 99
> and QQ. Thus, the AK is "live".
You are making my point. If both players have an ace, both are in deep crap against you. You, like most people, seem to look at your hand and somehow don't seem to think about what the other players have. What four cards are you giving these two players that make AA67 double suited a dog? If both have an ace, our hand is very dominating. This is good. This is what you want. You want to have AA against two players with dead cards in their hands. The one confrontation you fear is something like AA45 and KKQQ. But, if both players have an ace, say As2s3h4h and Ac2cKdKh, we beat the tar out of them. Also, there are the two blinds to chop up. You can manufacture scenarios where we are in trouble, but there are very few, and even the worst case isn't awful.
AA67 double suited LOVES to play against two raising hands *because* they have aces. This is a good thing. I guess you didn't get the Holdem example. Here is it more obviously: when you have AA in Holdem, you love to play against a raiser with AQ and a reraiser with AK. It is not bad at all for you that both opponents have aces. It is terrible for them.
---
Lee Munzer wrote...
> Badger please run "Poker Probe" on:
> As2s3h4h
> Ac2cKdKh
> Ah7hAd6d
> I'd take a wild guess at something like 34%-27%-39% (respectively).
Hand scoops high shares low share percentage
A234 12,985 23,616 37,866 30.74
A2KK 19,690 28,699 35,628 32.16
AA76 25,603 47,686 26,507 37.10
> In the quiz example it's not clear whether there will be three, or perhaps,
> four/five players taking the flop. Yes, if two opponents hold hands like As2s3h4h
> and Ac2cKdKh and they are your only two opponents, I like Ah7hAd6d.
> So, you're right! If I'm close, you'll make approximately
> 18% on every dollar you invest.
You should love this hand in the situation you weren't liking it... against two quality hands that typical players would raise and reraise with. In the 100,000 hands above, it wins in half of them. The other two hands get clobbered since their "low shares" are quartered except those times it comes a deuce. The Probe percentages can be misleading if you don't recognize that the low shares are commonly money-losing shares.
> Now, let's "devil advocate" the situation to see how much of a favorite
> we are when there are five players (the other two defend blinds with
> Jc10c9d7d and KsQs8h8d). I realize there is a good chance a reasonable
> player would muck these blind hands in the face of heavy raising.
Another thing to consider in plugging these probe numbers in is, yes if you add a hand like the JT97 that happens to have a richly favorable deck available, that crap hand now can becomes a favorite. And, the JT97 gets most of it's value at the expense of the AA76 because it gets scoops and high shares of the pot.
But before people start running to play this crap though, they need to consider that if their crap is not taking up virgin territory -- for instance, if the AKK2 was AJT2 -- the crap hand is pitiful. AA wants these randomish crap hands out. If they play, they might have the best of it, but they might be enormous dogs.
You can tweak these hands many ways... turn the AKK2 into AK23 or AKQJ or whatever.... and then add randomish hands and get wildly different Probe results, some of which make the AA67 much worse, some make it better.
I think though you have to look at this mostly from two perspectives. First, the AA67 loves the confrontation with two good hands. Second, AA67 double-suited would LOVE to play against a whole field of random hands every time. A less important thing is the AA67 can face some situations where it isn't nearly as good, or even any good at all. To oversimplify it, the AA67 is a bit like QQ in Holdem. You almost always just play it and have a solid expectation, but once in awhile you are a dog (though the AA67 double-suited will never be as big a dog as QQ will be to AA or KK).
---
Jonathan Kaplan wrote...
> Does the dominance (three-handed) of Ah7hAd6d over As2s3h4h and
> Ac2cKdKh require BOTH other hands to have A2 exactly? What if the 2c
> was the 3c, how much difference does that one change create?
I don't see that making a difference. The AA67 was getting low about 1% of the time, when it came a 3, a 4 and one of the two remaining deuces. If you change one of the deuces to a 3, it just makes one of the two other hands worse, and doesn't hurt or help the AA67 any (except that when there are two ace deuces, rather than an A2 and an A3, there is going to be a bit more betting for the AA67 to have to face).
> Of probable played opponent hands, do you feel that the AA67 hand
> will "get better" a larger or smaller part of the time, or stay about the
> same, in an "average" $10/20 Omaha8 game? If the word "average",
> or the limit specificity means anything. (Just curious how much variance
> there is going to be, if one can't specifically conclude that the opponents
> hold two such pretty hands, simultaneously.)
If two players hold such pretty hands, I would imagine adding any more players would hurt the AA67 -- except players with KKxx and 2345 hands. The configuration of the Aces really hurts the A234 and AK22 against the AA67, but with more players in the pot than this, the AA67 is hurt by both aces being dead. ANOTHER consideration though is, any player who would jump in cold for four bets with any hand except four picture cards is likely to be such a very poor player that even though his hand is in good shape with a rich deck, he is likely to play the situation rottenly.
###
Omaha HiLo Issues
If your Omaha edges are usually only small, you are playing too many hands. I think it was Sean Duffy who wrote that playing Omaha8 becomes tolerable online because the game is so much faster. I think this is an excellent observation.
Spencer Sun wrote...
> He certainly has calling odds on the turn, but I'm not sure about betting.
> If last to act (i.e. "only" 5 opponents) I'd be inclined to take the free card.
> The flush is only good for half the pot, and while A3 might be good and
> a deuce might come, I don't think that's enough to bet for value.
There are a few reasons why betting is likely right. Most important, players in this game are horrible. They are capable of making a ton of errors when someone bets (that they can't make for a check). For example: A dry A2 might checkraise, driving out straights that have Sean tied... A nut straight might checkraise, driving out any other A3, giving Sean a terrific freeroll... A bet might freeze an A2, whereas a a check will bring the A2 to life on the river.
Sean's bet is correct because of what actually happened: he got to see the showdown, with a decent hand and a nut draw, for one single bet (with the option to have bet the river if he made his hand). If he checks the turn, there will almost certainly be one or two bets on the river, which he should call both because the players pay so horrible and because the high hand is so easy to make and be bet.
Bets like this on the turn make money even when he loses. He saves bets when he misses his hand, but makes quite a bit more when he makes his hand. This is the type of hand I love to say thank you for online. To oversimplify it, any time I got (a losing) second nut low on the river and it's checked around, this is a good thing.
---
Edward Hutchison wrote...
> I did make a quick check of AA76 (where both aces are suited) using
> Mike Caro's Poker Probe and found that the hand has a win rate of
> about 16-17% in a ten handed Monte-Carlo simulation. As the cut-off
> for play under my system is 15%, this hand would qualify for play.
> I will, therefore, give the matter some study and at the risk of complicating
> the system I will amend the posted version (again) making some minor
> award for the A-6 combination.
It's not a flaw exactly, but an inevitable problem with something like Poker Probe is assigning winning percentages in HiLo split games. I just ran this hand, and it's assigned a win percentage of 17.05%. In a run of ten random hands they would each get a value of 10%. So 17% is way above average.
But what does that 17% represent? In 10,000 trials it's 774 scoops, with 2124 hi shares and 1286 low shares. (When a player scoops and there is no low, the program still assigns the low share as won by the scooper.) The average statistics for the hands are 458 scoops, 904 high shares, 868 low shares.
What people should be taking out of these numbers is against a full field of players going to the river, the hand scoops the pot 7.74% of the time.
AsJsAdTd is either the best pure high Omaha hand or the second best (after AsAdKsKd), depending on how you measure things. This hand scoops at almost the same rate as As6s7dAd. *And* given that AA76 can often also win low, it's win percentage is then higher than AsJsAdTd, which clocks in at about 15.42%.
Scooping is how you win money in HiLo games. AsAd6s7d is an absolute powerhouse in any sort of game, especially very loose or very tight ones. I don't see it as at all "close".
And it's a much better hand than As2d3c4h, which scoops a pitiful 3.28% of the time, but has a win percentage of 24.3%. The win percentage number is not the important one.
###
Online Omaha Games
plplaya wrote...
> I sat down in a paradise 5-10 Omaha8 game this morning and the average
> pot was $50, with flops seems at 35%, would you sit down at this game?
Gleefully.
> I have never seen an Omaha game this bad!
Why do you call it bad? It's nearly ideal.
> It was like playing mid-limit Holdem where post flop is almost always a
> heads up or 3 way situation. I got A2Q3 double suited on the big blind
> hoping to raise it up, and everyone folded to me!!! I left after the only
> chaser/fish I could identify got busted.
Fish come in different forms, and the chaser isn't even the preferred.
> Am I correct in a assuming this is an unbeatable type of Omaha game?
> When does an limit Omaha8 game become unbeatable?
If you can't beat this game for a LOT, your Omaha game blows chunks, period. Again, these games are almost ideal. A bunch of passive players who misplay 80% of the hands they play, plus one or two loose "play crap cards" liveones.
> When I play California limit Omaha, it's always 7 way action preflop,
> with 5 seeing the river (an impossible game to lose long term at).
> I never have encountered a game like today's 5-10 at paradise.
The California games are fine too, but they are looser and more aggressive. Bad players include chasers and aggressive bettors, but very few pansies. The online Omaha games have some of the most passive, weirdly backward-playing just awful players that God saw fit to create. The betting strategy employed by most of these players is as bad conceptual poker as I've ever seen.
These games are very different than California games, and it can be a jarring thing to see, but they are much softer (I know that sounds impossible), have absurdly low variance, and are extremely profitable. The Paradise 3/6 is only a middling game (usually), but every other limit at the online cardrooms I've played at offers about the best earn I've seen in any limit games I've ever played in. Of course, you have to play properly, but that is a different issue.
Stephen Jacobs wrote...
> I'm real interested in what playing Omaha properly means. I gather
> from your posts that the first factor is playing the correct starting hands,
> with absolutely no compromise (that should be no more than 1 voluntary
> flop in 2 circuits).
Not at all. Online Omaha games offer the opportunity to push the envelope of playable hands. Given the passivity of the games, if you play a little under 1.5 hands a round in the blinds (usually getting a free ride in the big blind) and a little over 1.5 hands a round outside the blinds, you are doing just fine.
> Even then, you seem to recommend mucking if anyone else might plausibly
> have liked the flop more than you do. I get the impression that you like to play
> straightforwardly when you do play, but I don't remember anything specific.
There is a big difference between the sort of loose California games the original poster described, where the game mostly is "the best hand wins" and online games where if you say "boo" half the players fold hands that should not be folded. Straightforward play should not be used online (usually). Most players are clueless about the action, in large part because many are playing two games, so it is important to not be obvious in your actions. In other words, loose-aggressive game Omaha is very different than tight-passive game Omaha.
> So let's try an example: AQQT (suited once--you're invited to comment on
> where the A vs non-A suit makes a difference) in late-middle position with
> an early limper. Raise, fold or call?
Normally I'd call. I want players. I would raise specific players and situations. Folding is silly.
> You see the flop with those cards 3-handed. Comes A97 rainbow,
> one of your suit. Checked to you (we're giving you weird passive
> opponents). What's the plan?
Check.
> Might you ever continue against an A86 flop?
Almost certainly not, not in such a small pot.
> I'm probably your ideal victim now, but I want to learn.
An ideal victim sends money directly via PayPal....
---
plplaya wrote...
> Which is then?
Are you asking what is an unbeatable game or the preferred fish? People who fold when they are getting excellent odds to call or raise are preferred to opponents who chase with marginal pot odds. People who raise and bet idiotic draws head-up (like raising one player with 2347 offsuit on a As8Js flop) are better to play against than those who call with that hand.
> I just had never seen an Omaha game that tight.
> What adjustments should I make to beat it?
Think of AK more in terms of its Holdem value than its value in a loose Omaha game.
> In this game, since people would call preflop raises, I raised when I could
> with good hands, normally I limp along like everyone else in the CA style
> game as to not raise suspicion of an A23 being out. I want the A-3, and 23
> calling me on the turn and river.
A23 hands are rare so aren't a terribly important aspect of the game. MTT
+ Show Spoiler +
David Sklansky -
Adjusting
for a Tournament
+ Show Spoiler +
Since the 2009 World Series of Poker is upon us, here are a few "Cliff Notes" concerning those aspects of tournaments not normally encountered by expert, higher stakes cash game players.
The big five are:
1. You must quit if you lose your chips.
2. The stakes are continually going up.
3. There will likely be some players at your table who play a lot worse than your normal opponents.
4. You are sometimes playing with or against a shortstack.
5. Once you are in the money or near it, your EV rises (without your chips increasing) when other players go broke.
Each one of these facts has an effect on the way an expert high stakes cash game player should adjust his strategy when playing in a tournament. Let’s look at them one at a time.
1. The fact that a player cannot reach into his pocket to buy more chips (except for the early stages of a rebuy tournament) is very significant in the late stages in a tournament and we will look at that when we get to No. 5. But, it is also a fairly important factor in the beginning of a tournament if all three of the following are true:
1. He plays a lot better than most of his opponents
2. The stacks are deep
3. The stakes rise slowly
Those last two factors definitely describe WSOP tournaments. I will let you be the judge as to whether that first factor describes you. If it does, the theoretical best strategy for you is to avoid slightly positive EV gambles for a large chunk of your chips. For example, it would be wrong to put yourself in a position where you would have a 51 percent chance of doubling up and a 49 percent chance of going broke if you estimate that you had a 55 percent chance of doubling up through conservative play. This admonition is clear cut if you are contemplating calling a big bet. It is less clear if you are contemplating making that bet (especially if you are against someone who, like you, wants to avoid big risks).
One time you might want to ignore this advice would be if there is something profitable you can do with your time if you bust out early. With so many tournaments going on the same day at the WSOP, you might want to factor that in.
2. There are two adjustments that you need to make due to the fact that the stakes are going up. One is to be aware that your medium stack might instantly turn into a small stack. If that is so, you should play that medium stack a tad looser than you would otherwise. But, this is of very minor significance at the WSOP where stakes rise so slowly.
The other adjustment is that you should "advertise" more than usual against strangers during the first one or two levels. Because the benefits you receive from that advertising will often come at higher stakes. If you are playing no-limit or pot-limit, you should bluff more than normal to help getting paid off later on. Playing limit, you should probably give off a tight image to help pull off a bluff down the road.
3. If there are relatively weak players at your table, it is important to identify them quickly and to figure out their weaknesses. After which it behooves you to try to play pots with them rather than the other good players at the table. Although that would also be your goal in a cash game, it is even truer in a tournament. Since you are trying to avoid close gambles, you should be even more averse than usual to confront other experts.
4. Shortstack strategy is not substantially different from normal play if the game is limit. But, in no-limit it is quite different. If you are used to playing deep stack no-limit games, you may need to brush up on the mathematics of those all in situations you will be encountering when the tournament stacks are small. Specifically, you will need a good understanding of when to shove up to three or four times the size of the pot if it will get you or the other player all in.
5. Although most people say that they "play to win," the fact is that situations occur where the smart thing to do is make the play that significantly increases your EV even though it reduces your chances of winning the tournament by a very small amount. For instance, suppose you were at the final table in fifth place, sixth through ninth places all had tiny stacks, and the chip leader moved in with what you were somehow sure was ace-king. To call with a pair would only be right if the bracelet was worth a lot more than the prize money as far as you were personally concerned.
This decision is even clearer cut if you have a very short stack and are just short of the money. If some stacks are even shorter there is little to gain by doubling up so it is better to avoid close gambles and just make sure you sneak into the money.
On the other hand, if your stack is not small and those of your opponent’s are, it is important that you recognize the situation and take advantage of the fact that shorter stacks will be very reluctant to take risks. If no one else has yet entered the pot, you will be looking to steal blinds and antes with a high proportion of your hands.
Badugi+ Show Spoiler +
Starting Guide+ Show Spoiler +
Basic rules
There are three draw rounds in which you can discard as many cards as you wish. The goal is to get the lowest 4 cards of diffrent suits, without pairing your hand. The best hand that's possible is A234 rainbow, after that the best hand is A235r, A345r, A236r, et cetera. Note however that KQJT rainbow beats A234 if the A234 is not of diffrent suits. Pairs negate the diffrent suit.
Basic Strategy - 8max
The first thing that I'm going to discuss is the 8-handed play. The starting hands you want to be playing in general are 3 cards under 8 of diffrent suits, A2 or A3 of diffrent suits (in late position if people folded to you), and all badugi's (a badugi is 4 cards of diffrent suits that isn't paired). You will want to raise all of these hands. If someone raised before you and he is unknown, I would suggest to 3bet whenever you have 3 low cards of 6 and under, or a made badugi. I would flat with hands like A377 though, as they are most valuable as well. Very critical information: In a heads up pot, you should almost always bet if your opponent discarded more cards then you did, regardless of what you drew. Put pressure on him.
Basic Strategy - HU
Obviously, HU is a very villain-dependant game. I would open the button every time I have 2 cards under 7, or 3 cards under T, and obviously any badugi. The key thing is adapting to reads of your opponent. Does he ever stand pat as a bluff? Does he open hands in which he discards 2 cards? This should determine your calling and/or raising range when you're in the bb. I can't say much more about it as it's really all about adapting to your opponent.
Adapting to new information
The most crucial thing to use is information. If someone is standing pat, it generally means he has a made badugi. If you don't have a badugi, you can be quite certain that you're an underdog if you don't haveo ne. This is however where our hand selection comes into play. Say you have A23r3 and villain has 27TJr. We have 3 draws and 7 outs. Depending on the odds, you'll have to decide whether to draw or not. Please note that people are very bad at folding badugi's, even king high ones when their opponent is standing pat, so don't worry about them possibly folding when you hit your badugi and they're standing pat. They'll accomodate.
Folding Badugi's?
There are definitely situations in which you want to fold a badugi. Say you're playing a competent player. He raises UTG and you look down at KT78r and 3bet him. He calls and discards 1 card, you stand pat. He then proceeds to checkraise you after the first draw. This could definitely be a point in which you want to muck your hand since it's unlikely that he will bluff someone that's standing pat. I believe you can fold badugi's up to 9 high with the right read, so don't be shy to fold if you do think you're beat, even though you think you'll look silly for folding after standing pat. Make the right decision!
Common situation
You raise in MP with A255 and get 3bet from the BTN. You call and discard 1 card, BTN discards 1 card too. What should you do here? It depends on the villain. In general, I would opt to checkcall this street and checkraise him after the second draw, assuming you both discarded 1 card on the second draw and you didn't improve. This is because if you both don't improve, you are very likely to have the best hand with a 5-high 3card badugi. This means you're actually a big favorite. I'd also wait until after the second draw because the bets will double as big, so you get to build a pot twice as big. He will also often call a river bet if you discard a card on the third draw simply because he's clueless (most Badugi players still have no clue what they're doing). This depends on what level you're playing at though.
Seven Card Stud (Hi)+ Show Spoiler +
Daut - 7 card Stud: + Show Spoiler +
Most of the players on this forum are trying to specialize in no limit hold em. Further, most are trying to employ a tight aggressive style. Stud requires a very tight and very aggressive game, and really teaches you how to push marginal edges. I am convinced that by learning stud, players become better at hold em. Note that this guide assumes basic knowledge of how stud works, so I don’t discuss the rules of the game, but I do go over what I think is an optimal strategy for playing. I assume that you are playing a full table game, which consists of 8 players.
One other note is that to show cards hidden, I will use (). So, (99)A means you have 99 in the hole.
I would advise playing very tight on 3rd street. A lot of players waste many bets early on, and saving them adds up in the end. I’ll break down the hands that should be played into 3 sections (same as Chip Reese did in super system)
1) Premium pairs/trips
2) Drawing hands
3) Small pairs
Premium pairs/trips:
I consider premium pairs TT and up. The reason TT is a premium hand is that a straight cannot be made without a T or a 5, so the possession of 2 of them greatly reduces the odds that another player will make a straight.
If there is no raise in front of you, raise with a premium pair as long as there is only 0 or 1 higher cards showing behind you. If there are 2 or more, just call. If there is a raise in front of you and the card showing is higher than yours, call if your kicker is higher than the doorcard showing, and fold otherwise. For example, suppose you have (AT)T, and a Q up raises in front of you. Your hand is strong enough to call, granted that you have live cards. This brings me to my first rule:
Do not play non-made hands with dead cards out. That is, if there are dead aces or tens in the above example, avoid the situation. However, if your hand were (AT)A, and you had dead cards out, you could go ahead and reraise because you have the strongest hand barring a freak rolled up trips or AA with a higher kicker.
Let’s change the above situation a little. Say your hand is now (TT)A, so you have the A showing. I would go ahead and reraise with this hand. Having the TT concealed is much stronger, if you manage to spike a T, then you have a very deceptive 3 of a kind. Further, you may be able to make the Q fold on a later street with continued aggression by representing split aces.
Let’s change the situation once more. Suppose your hand is (TT)J or (TJ)T, and the Q up once again raises in front of you. Unless you are getting very good odds on your call (4:1 plus), and you have no dead cards, and there are no higher cards left behind you who may reraise, then you should fold. Stay away from these situations. You could make 2 pair and still very easily lose the hand. This shows very much how powerful a kicker can be in a stud hand. Just some numbers, here are odds on 3rd street of the following matchups:
QQ2 vs. TTJ: TTJ wins 38.5%
QQ2 vs. TTA: TTA wins 43%
Although the percentage difference is only about 5%, the added fold equity of TTA and the power of the kicker make the hand worth playing.
The goal with the premium pairs is to eliminate as many players from the pot as possible. If you have a pair that is higher than anyone else’s doorcard, you want to raise and reraise as much as possible. These hands can win a showdown unimproved against 1 opponent, but against multiple opponents you need help to win. You must push your marginal edge very hard, and your goal should be to get as many people out of the hand as possible. Thus, play it fast and hard.
On the other hand, with rolled up trips, the very strongest starting hand in 7 stud, you want to keep as many people in as possible early on until the bets double. These hands will often improve to a full house or better, and even when they don’t they will frequently win. Just a quick numbers check against 2 of the strongest possible 7 stud hands:
777 vs. Ac Ah Kh: 777 wins 83%
777 vs. Qc Jc Tc: 777 wins 75%
Thus, I would generally not raise with rolled up trips on 3rd street. I want to keep everyone in the pot until the bets double and I can really make some money off some 2 pairs, draws, and other random holdings.
Drawing hands:
There are 2 types of drawing hands: 3 to a straight, 3 to a flush. Flush draws come more often, so they are obviously a better hand. There are three considerations when playing drawing hands – your position, your door card, and dead cards.
With drawing hands, you want as many people in the hand as possible, increasing your pot odds. Thus, you almost never want to raise with them (there are a couple exceptions which I will go over).
With three to a straight, first examine how strong your cards are. KQJ is a much stronger hand than 876 because if your cards pair on 4th street, you now have a premium pair. Secondly, look for cards that will fill your straight. With an 876, the most important cards are 9 and 5, with T and 6 being important as well. If there are 3 or more of these 16 cards dead, don’t even consider playing the hand. With 2 dead cards, it is a marginal play, with 0 or 1, the hand is playable to 4th street. That is, granted there are other players in the pot. I would not play a lower 3 straight to a raise (unless there were a lot of people in), but I may play a KQJ to a raise if I have cards higher than his door card, thus giving me a possibility of making a higher pair than he has.
With a 3 flush, I examine similar properties. First, check how many of your suit are out. With 3 or more out, fold the hand immediately. With 2 out, only play the hand if you have a couple of high cards that can make a high pair. With 0 or 1 out, go ahead and play the hand, granted you are not heads up against a raiser.
Probabilities of making flush (# of dead cards showing on 3rd street)
0 dead cards: 23.6%
1 dead card: 19.6%
2 dead cards: 15.8%
3 dead cards: 12.3%
4 dead cards: 9.1%
As you can see, if there are more than 1 or 2 dead cards, the likelihood of making a flush becomes very low.
Again, with these hands you want as many people in the pot as possible, so they don’t play well heads up or against a raise. If you have a hand like (Qc6c)5c, and are raised by a J up, it is acceptable to call because if you catch a Q you could very well have the best hand. However, with 3 cards lower than a jack, I would not call the raise unless it is a big multiway pot.
As I said, there are some exceptions to the rule of not raising with these hands. Let’s say you are in last position, meaning the player in front of you brought it in, and there are a bunch of callers in front of you. Suppose you have (5cKc)Ac. Go ahead and raise if there are no aces and kings showing. The table will probably give you credit for a pair of aces, they will probably all call, increasing your pot odds, and you have a good likelihood of improving on the next street. An ace, king, or club on 4th street will improve your hand tremendously. Further, nobody will expect you to have started with a 3 flush, so if a club comes, your flush draw will be hidden very well.
Another time I would raise is if nobody has entered the pot, and everyone remaining behind you has a lower card showing than your door card. You can raise and expect to take down the antes and bring in a good percentage of the time here.
One note about drawing hands is that if you don’t improve on 4th street (either make a 4 flush/4 straight or manage to get a premium pair), you will usually be folding the hand here. The only time I would advise taking a card off and continuing to 5th street is if the pot was raised on 3rd street, and there are a lot of people in, so you are getting good money odds still. Otherwise, just fold the hand and cut your losses.
If you make a 4 flush or 4 straight on 4th street, you will almost always see the hand to the river (unless you have a 4 straight and someone is showing 3 or 4 to a flush, or other situations where you feel you may be drawing dead like someone has trips on board). In fact, you might want to raise in multiway pots on 4th street to get more money in. Let’s say you are last to act, and the first player bets, and 2 people call. With a 4 flush or 4 straight, go ahead and raise here. You are 47% to make the flush and 43% to make the straight, so unless the original bettor makes it 3 bets to go and the other players fold, you will be correct in raising. Even if he does reraise, you are still ok, just call and try to hit your draw. However, if he does call as do the others, your raise means you are getting 3:1 on your money on an almost 1:1 shot, a winning proposition.
Smaller pairs:
There are 2 types of smaller pairs. Wired or concealed pairs such as (77)A, or split pairs, such as (7A)7.
With split pairs that are smaller than premium hands, you want to try and win the hand on 3rd street if possible. I generally don’t take too much value in split pairs unless one of the following holds:
1) My upcard is the highest card showing, meaning my split pair could be the best hand
2) My kicker is higher than anyone else’s door card, similar to the situation detailed before about ATT vs Q showing
3) There are many players in the pot giving me good odds to try and hit my 3 of a kind
If I’m the first to enter the pot with a few people already having folded, I’ll raise and take a stab at it (assuming 0 or 1 up cards are higher than mine, if 2 or more are higher I will probably fold unless I have a very good kicker). If everyone folds, great, I won the antes. If someone calls, I’ll make my decision on the following streets based on a lot of things, like his door card, his 4th street card, my kicker, what comes on 4th street for me etc. If he reraises me, I’ll call granted one of the 3 previously stated conditions hold.
If there are limpers in front of me, I’ll limp in and try to improve cheaply. If the hand is raised twice in front of me or twice behind me, I’ll throw it away, protect your money when you don’t have good odds of improving.
If you are playing against a raiser with a higher doorcard than yours (representing a higher pair), check and call or just call till 5th street. If you don’t make trips or improve to 2 pair with your kicker (remember you wont play the hand unless your kicker is higher than his doorcard!) then fold.
An advanced play I like to use often here is to raise with the 2nd best hand.
Let’s say I have (7A)7 showing on 3rd street. It is raised in front of me by a K, and I call. 4th street comes and we look like this:
Me: (7A)78
Him: (xx)KT
When he bets into me, I will raise. For one, if there are other players left to act behind me, it puts a lot of pressure on them to cold call two bets, so they will most likely fold, making this a heads up pot. Secondly, unless he improves, he will likely check to me on 5th street, and if I don’t improve I can take a free card. This saves me half a bet because the bets double on 5th street! If I do improve, I will bet on 5th street, GAINING me that extra half a bet on 4th street.
Notice that this play requires a few things to work. First off, it requires that if my board is stronger than his, meaning I will be first to act on 5th street, then I will have the best hand. The only way for me to be first to act is if a 7, 8 or A comes, all of which improve my hand to 2 pair or trips. Consider the following situation:
Me: (7A)78
Him: (xx)T9
I could easily be first to act on the next street without improving. Getting a K, Q, or J could make me the best hand on board, and I wont have the option of giving myself a free card in this situation. Here, just call and try to improve to aces up or trips.
Playing concealed pairs is very different. The play of concealed smaller pairs is based on what your upcard is and what you want to represent. If you have a hand like (22)A, and no aces are showing, you should raise. You might win by representing split aces, you could improve to three deuces later on and nobody would ever expect it, or you could pair your ace and make a very strong aces up.
What’s different about concealed pairs is that you can limp in with a bad kicker because of the power of making concealed trips. With split pairs, if I play a terrible kicker, then hit my doorcard, people will be very wary of trips, and may fold or just call down, which doesn’t give me enough equity to continue in the hand. However, with a concealed pair, you can limp in and possibly hit a concealed set, which can very easily get paid off. It’s sort of like hold em, hitting a set with implied odds.
Despite that, if the pot is raised in front of you, and your kicker is not higher than the raiser’s doorcard, just fold. Or, if the pot is raised twice behind you, fold it as well. You want to hit trips as cheaply as possible, do not go calling all sorts of bets early on to hit what is basically a 12:1 shot by 5th street.
5th/6th/7th street play:
By 5th street, you will either have an obvious fold, a premium pair that is looking to hit a 2nd pair or trips, a drawing hand that you will pay to 7th street to see, or a made 2 pair or better. Most of the play on 5th/6th street is relatively straightforward. With made hands, you want to bet/raise as much as possible to get as much money in as you can. With drawing hands you want to call until you hit (then you have a made hand which you can play aggressively) or fold on 7th street if you miss. The only non-straightforward hand is the unimproved premium pairs.
Usually you will want to continue aggression with them on 5th street. Sometimes you will win the hand against an unimproved opponent, and other times they may call or raise, or you may even not be first to act (i.e. they have an open pair showing).
Let’s suppose you are first to act. I would bet out. If they fold, great. If they call, I would assume a drawing hand. If the draw doesn’t seem to hit on 6th street, bet again. I would then check call on 7th street. This minimizes my losses against a made draw, and maximizes my wins against a missed draw that may bluff on the end. I use this play often; even with 2 pair when I am sure my opponent will not have made anything except a flush or straight.
If you are raised, be very careful. This goes for trips and 2 pairs as well. First, I would think about what cards are already dead, and how the hand has been played so far, trying to put my opponent on a hand. If there were any way I’m behind I would make a decision. With only 1 pair I would consider folding on scary boards, possibly calling to the river trying to hit 2 pair. With 2 pair I would call down (unless the board is really scary AND I wasn’t getting decent pot odds at all) trying to fill up, but even if I didn’t, I’d call the river (again, unless the board was very scary). Same goes for trips. If I did fill up with either of these hands, bet out on the river and get as much money in as possible.
Again, that is under the assumption that I may be behind. If I have trips or a solid two pair and I know my hand is best, I’m going to keep reraising. But If my opponent may have a straight or flush or something else, I’ll play it cautiously and check call or fold if I’m certain I’m beat and don’t have odds to draw out.
Now suppose that you are not first to act. Consider the following situation.
You: (A2)A65
Him: (xx)J22
He raised 3rd street, you reraised, he called, so you are fairly certain he has a pair of jacks. He then called your bet on 4th street, hit an open pair on 5th street and bet out. I would raise him here. Yes, you know for sure that he has 2 pair and your hand is not best, but raising is the correct play. For one, unless he has JJ or a 2 in the hole (both of which are very unlikely), he wont reraise you (he may even fold!). If he folds, great. If he calls, he will likely check the next street (unless a J or 2 comes up). If you don’t improve to 2 pair, check behind. If you do improve to 2 pair, bet! This costs you the same amount to see the 7th card if you miss, and gains more if you hit.
Important other things:
You always always ALWAYS want to remember every dead card. I cant emphasize this enough. When drawing to a flush you want to know exactly how many of your suit remain in the deck. You want to know if on later streets, cards other players get are already dead. It decreases the likelihood that the player has made another pair. Knowing all the dead cards allows you to better piece together what your opponent might have. For example, say you have (JA)JTT5 showing, and another player has (xx)K642 showing. If you knew there to be dead sixes fours and twos, then it is less likely that your opponent has improved to 2 pair. This allows you to continue your aggression.
That leads to the second point, of trying to always be aggressive. Whenever you think you have the best hand, you should raise, reraise, cap it, etc. Stud is a limit game, you don’t want to miss out on bets that cant be made up later in the hand. By playing aggressive you maximize the amount of money that you win.
That being said, don’t be stupid. If someone pairs his door card, be very wary of trips, even consider folding. If you are raised, consider that you might be behind, and you might want to call down. Another example is say you have (Q7)Q, the Q being the highest card on board. Lets say you raise the bring in and are reraised by a 9 showing. Reraise him back to 3 bets. If he makes it 4 bets to go, he might have KK or AA in the hole. Don’t be stupid and keep trying to run him over unless you improve by 5th street. In fact, If I didn’t improve by 5th street, I would almost certainly fold. This brings to mind a hand I recently played.
I had (A6)A, and it folded to me. I raised with only the bring in behind me. He called with the 3d. The next street gave me an 8, and him the Kd. I bet again, and he called. Now, I figured him for a 4 flush. 5th street: me: (A6)A88, him: (xx)3dKdT. I bet again, and he called. 6th street didn’t improve my hand, but gave him an A. I bet into him, and he raised me. I reraised him back, and he capped. Instantly, I knew he had QdJd in the hole and he walked into a straight. I didn’t make a boat on 7th, check called and saw the exact hand I knew he had. I know aggression is key, but there were a few hands that had me beat here. He could have had 33, KK, TT in the hole, as well as QJ. The fact that I put him on a flush draw before does not mean that was the only possible hand he could have. I should have been happy with the pot out there and should have just called down. Instead, I cost myself 2 bets being overaggressive.
This example brings in another point. If by the 7th card, there is any chance you have the best hand, call. If you were on a completely missed draw, sure, fold the hand, or if you cant beat the board you see, fold. But if you have aces up and are scared of trips, but you think he may just have a smaller two pair, call. Pot odds justify it. If there is 40 in the pot and it’s 4 to call, if you are ahead only 1 in 9 at this point you are making a +EV decision by calling.
A final point I’d like to make is about picking up pots. If people are acting like they are allergic to the money out there, by all means bet and try to take it. However, it is hard to bluff in stud. For one, it is not a positional game. The best hand leads each round, so if you are bluffing up front, you don’t know what people behind you will do, and if you are bluffing from behind, you probably don’t have a very strong hand. These forces work against each other, so keep them in mind when you consider bluffing. That being said, I do try to pick up a lot of pots, and occasionally get myself into trouble trying to run over an opponent. I would advise using it sparingly and in heads up pots.
There are situations where a bluff is very good though. Let’s say your board has a 3 flush showing but you have nothing. Your opponents check to you, go ahead and bet. If you have anything at all, you may even want to raise a bettor. It does require that you know if your opponent will call you down or not, but this could be a profitable play, and has worked for me often.
Occasionally if I’m sure my opponent wont call, I may bluff on the river. This is a VERY risky play because usually someone who goes to the river calls that last bet, but if you are very sure he wont call, then go for it. Just be very careful in executing this play.
If you are new to stud, this guide may seem overwhelming to you. It contains a lot of information and may have some unfamiliar terms to you. My advice is to read through it once, play a few hours, then come back and read it again, and play some more. There is a lot of insight in what I’ve written, and it’s hard to pick it all up at once. Using the techniques in this guide I’ve managed to become a winning 7-stud player, and in turn it has made me a better overall poker player. Basics+ Show Spoiler +
General Strategy+ Show Spoiler +
Key Points + Show Spoiler +
Your money is on the table. Do you know what you're in for? Learn basic starting-hands and play strategies, and what to look for at a table to increase your win percentage. Winning poker hands is not about who has the luck. It's about who is able to out-play their opponents with their strategy.
It is important to remember to adjust the strategy you are using to your specific table. Constant adjustment and focus in this game is critical.
Strategy is adjusted for the following: - Table stakes.
- Type of stud game.
- The cards on the table. (and in your hand)
- Demeanor of your opponents.
- Number of players at the table.
- Number of players in the betting rounds.
The following information is used to determine whether to play the cards you have in your hand at a full table or not. For the actual starting hand combinations and strategy, see other link.
Basic things to keep in mind:
In any seven card stud game there are some essential things that you will be focusing on when the starting hand (the first three cards dealt to each player) is dealt out. If you lose your focus on these things at any time, it could cost you the hand. If you weren't paying close enough attention to these things or were distracted during the deal, it is probably best to fold your hand immediately. You will probably not remember the cards specifically on later streets, however, you will generally have a 'feel' for if an opponent's hand is real or if it is a bluff.
When the starting hand is dealt and all the door cards are showing you will need to do this as quickly as possible before players start folding their hands: - Look at all of the door cards showing around the table.
- Count how many of each suit is out.
- Look at what card numbers are out.
- Remember which player was the first to raise the bring-in bet (if any) and how far away they are in position from the bring-in.
- Remember if the player with the bring-in bet calls any raises.
- Let the table know that you are not afraid to raise and re-raise.
- Let the table know that you can lay down a very good hand, even after re-raising.
Why do these things matter? Depending on what you have in your own hand, having general knowledge about the other cards on the table will determine whether you call, raise, or fold. If the cards in your hand combination are live, you will have a higher rate of success in achieving a winning end result.
Again, if cards have been folded around the table, and you have missed the opportunity to view those door cards, be inclined to fold unless you have a super-strong hand and nobody has yet raised the bring-in.
You are not only counting the cards for your own hand, you are counting cards and suits to determine what is live for other player's hands for later rounds as well.
If your cards are not live, then fold.
If you find on fifth street that you are chasing to make a hand against an aggressive better, it is best that you probably fold. Of course, you may not know this until show-down and you've lost. Use the experience of knowing when you are chasing cards for your hand against a player betting aggressively, that they probably already have a made hand. Then fold earlier next time. In the late streets they are highly unlikely to fold what they've invested into the pot when they've been betting aggressively.
Determining if you have a live flush combination:
If you have a three-flush starting hand, the other door cards you have viewed will determine the odds of you hitting your flush. You are counting how many of the cards on your table are of the same suit as your flush draw. In later rounds, for anyone else who is showing a flush-draw in their up-cards, you will need to know how live their flush is before continuing to bet or call.
A general rule of thumb to determine the odds of you hitting your flush at a full table is; if there are more than two players (excluding yourself) showing the suit you need to make your flush, consider your flush dead. If the table is short-handed you may call for one bet. Especially if you have other outs. If any cards that turn at fourth street that you need for your flush appear in other player's hands, really consider your flush a long-shot. At a short-handed table you may adjust the fourth street rule to suck-out a back-door flush, however the door-card suit-count rule should remain the same; consider the flush dead if there are more than two of the same suit you need in other players' hands.
Determining if you have a live straight combination:
If you have a combination in your starting hand to possibly hit a straight, you will be looking to see that the cards that you need to complete your straight are still live. In later rounds, for anyone else who is showing a straight draw, you will need to know how live their straight is. If you have a connector combination such as 789 and you see 5's, 6's, 10's, or J's around the table, consider your straight dead. Also consider that if you see other 7's, 8's and 9's at the table, the cards that you need to make pairs for this hand should be considered dead to your draw.
Two Pair Play:
If you have a combination in your hand where you can make two-pair, you want to see who's cards may be higher than yours. You will also be looking to see if the cards you need for pairs will still be live or if they are out of play.
The first player to raise the bring-in bet has a fairly strong combination. Most likely a pocket pair or split pair. The position that they raise from may determine if they are attempting to steal the pot or if they really have a hand to play.
Other notes to remember for low and medium stakes tables:
At low-stakes tables, players do not like to fold. Especially in card rooms. They'll bet and call just about anything, and being in a hand usually means you're going to end up in a heavy multi-way hand where there is a lot of action and money the winning pot is a very good amount. When nobody likes to fold and you are playing strong combinations, be aggressive. Don't fall into the trap where you're playing crappy combinations because other players at your table don't know how to fold and start with crappy combo's themselves. Use it to your advantage and play strong opening combinations with aggressive betting strategy and take the pot.
There are also tables where they will play crappy combos to the river calling all of your raises just for the hell of it, or maybe they caught something great on their crappy combo. This can be extremely frustrating and costly. Continuing to play tight and aggressively at a table like this will eventually get them to wake up and play better hands when the chips keep moving to your side of the table after you're winning show- downs and you've been playing strong consistently.
For online play, my experience is that the players at the table usually play pretty straight-up, with little bluffing and will fold in earlier rounds when they know the cards in their hand are beaten. The exception to this usually occurs during tournament play.
The longer you sit at a table with the same players, the more you get a feel for their strategy, what they raise and call with, and how easy or difficult it is for them to fold. Take mental notes about each player and adjust your strategy according to which players are in the hand with you. Bet aggressively to fold-out the weakest player(s). Have a made hand to call bets against another strong or aggressive player. Check and call or check and fold to players who are known for consistently having real hands and compare yours to theirs.
Be sure to read the advanced strategy section to see what you are up against with experienced and very loose players.
In any case, play courteously, and have fun! Starting Hand Strategy+ Show Spoiler +
Having a great starting hand will increase your win percentage. Most of the time at low limit tables, bets will be called all the way to the river prompting a show-down. Showing down winning hands consistently will establish you as a respected player at the table and eventually win some decent pots without even having to show-down as often, allowing room for bluffing later on. Once you are established, players will most likely not call your bets beyond sixth street without a competitive hand. For the most part, at low stakes tables, stud players are honest players and will not raise in later rounds with just a single pair unless they have kings or better, and will generally not fold once they have hit two pair with no flushes or straights showing on the board.
At low stakes tables (mostly micro-limit) you are mostly playing to break even or stay lightly ahead with your chips. For winning large pots, you will need to use advanced betting strategy. However the starting hand strengths and general bet strategy will still apply.
Starting hands should consist of a combination of cards which allow several types of outs to catch the best hand. The first rule of thumb when playing tight at a low stakes table is:
The lowest card in your starting hand should be higher than any other card showing around the table. Playing stud-hi means playing high. If all three of your cards are higher than all of the cards showing around the table when you catch your cards, most likely they will be the highest pair or two pair on the board to start. This is not to say that someone isn't hiding a nice pocket pair. They very well may be, however if you are playing cards higher than the highest cards showing, your odds of winning increase if you do catch your cards. In the example above, the 8h is the lowest card. It is also the highest up-showing card at this particular table.
Consequently, this hand is still a questionable hand to play, however there are outs to a possible late (back-door) flush, a straight, and high pairs depending on if your cards are still live, and someone isn't holding a pocket pair that is higher than 8.
Other great starting hands (not listed in any particular order), are:
Three-Card Flushes:
Three cards in your starting hand that are all of the same suit are worth a call if the circumstances allow, by this general rule of thumb; There should be no more than two other cards of your suit around a full table, not including your card. If you see more than two same-suited cards, the odds of hitting your flush is decreased. At a short-handed table the odds become more difficult to gauge. The more door cards you are able to see, the better you are able to hit the calculation on turning your flush. You have a 74% chance of hitting the card you need on each turn to make a flush with a multi-way pot. Heads-up your odds are lower because there are only 2 cards going back-and-forth. The more outs you have on this hand to double-pair or trip, the better the hand is to play.
Suited connectors/ Three Card Straights:
Suited connectors in three card straights leave opportunity for an open-ended straight draw. Having at least two of your connectors suited leaves another out for a back-door flush in case your straight does not come through. Of course, the higher the cards, the better your outs in case your straight doesn't make it. Playing with higher connectors means that in case you pair, your pairs will be high. Remember that your outs need to be live to play any hand, and you'll want to be attentive of anyone playing for a better hand such as a flush. Medium to high pocket pairs or split pairs, live high kickers.
The more suited you are, and the more live your cards are, the better your chances are for catching better hands.
Rolled-up trips of any kind:
Be careful in later rounds if you have not filled up to a full house and there are flush and straight draws on the board. If your set is a low set, such as 222, be especially careful that someone may have caught a set higher than yours that hits in later rounds if you have not filled up. Definitely be aware that if you are playing 222, straight-draws and flush-draws will be especially scary if you don't fill up. Having higher cards turned over on the board will hopefully scare the draws off of the table. It is not as easy to do with lower cards turning on your hand when the pot is multi-way.
My rule for door card aces:
When beginning to establish myself at a table, (and certainly a disputable strategy), is; do not play a door card ace unless you can raise with it. If other players are seeing you fold your ace, later on when you do raise your ace with nothing in your hand you will most likely take the pot without seeing the river or showing down. It allows room for bluffing. Playing raise-or-fold with your door-card ace will save frustration and stress in later rounds. This is a rainbowed starting hand, meaning that odds for this hand to make a flush begins dead. There are also no odds on this hand to make a straight. If there are other aces facing up at the table, the ace is most likely dead or already paired in someone else's hand. Raising the ace here would be detrimental and most likely seen as a blatant bluff. If there are no other aces facing up at the table you can take your chances with raising, hoping that someone doesn't have a nice flush-draw, straight-draw, or pocket pair combo in their hand. It may be worth a cheap call if you hope to turn other aces or nines, but really, early at the table, I personally wouldn't bother with this hand because it lacks many outs for improvement, unless of course, the three of your cards are higher than any of the other up-cards showing at the table.
Aces to raise with are hidden pocket pairs with the ace as your door card, pocket and split aces, three-card flushes, and three-card outside straights.
Medium Stakes Tables and Tables That Are Playing Pretty Loosely:
It may be necessary to loosen up on your combo strategies so that when you ante and bring-in the cost of waiting on a super hand doesn't eat you alive. Not to mention that players will know what you're playing if you fold your starting hands about 50-70% of the time. You will be able to determine how loose you can go depending on how many people on average bet to the river, and what kinds of cards they are showing. If they are consistently showing low, medium paired, and double-paired hands, playing with rainbowed high-card combos to start wouldn't be unusual. In some cases a hand like this would even be okay, however watch what happens against an opponent in this hand where this hand should have folded.
This hand shows a pair of 2's with a suited ace kicker to start. The fourth street card opens up a back-door flush draw which didn't catch. The fifth street card didn't make the hand any better because it didn't trip the 2's and it didn't suit the flush-draw. This player called or bet on a pair of two's with a very bad chance at a flush draw on late streets. I most likely would have folded this hand on either fourth or fifth street depending on how multi-way the pot was and how many over-cards were showing in other player's hands. Luckily the player caught a pair of 7's to couple with his pair of 2's. The river card was no help either. Depending on what the opponents were betting and calling on, if there are over-cards to a low pair, folding earlier would have been a very good idea. An opponent may be playing a single early pair of kings hoping to catch their second pair. If the King's didn't double-pair, it kept this player in good shape. However the odds on this to be a winning hand in a multi-way pot are pretty slim. Short-handed this is a questionably playable hand.
If the 2's and 7's hand was up against a hand such as:
Calling to the river would be really gutsy. There are plenty of over-cards showing. Assuming that this player was making initial bets representing that the had a split pair of kings, hoping to catch a second pair, there is also a possible straight and a possible flush on this players board. Calling bets with low and medium pairs against a board showing over cards, a possible flush and a possible straight is, probably not in your best interest to play unless there are free cards drawn through checking back and forth.
A possible save for this hand would be:
The player with 2's and 7's who is in first position to bet, check-raises on sixth street to represent that he has hit three 7's. Because the 2's and 7's are in betting position, placing a bet that can just be called won't be of much help on figuring out if the King's has made good on a higher hand. It would have to be a check raise which could be a difficult pull.
If the player with kings believes his opponent has three sevens, he may call and make like he is drawing to a flush to beat it, he may fold because he doesn't want the expense if his hand really doesn't have outs for the flush or the straight, or he may raise the bet to represent that he has made either his flush or his straight already. If he thinks that the 7's are raising to represent that they have made two pair, he may re-raise to represent that the King's will have a higher pairs.
Either way, the 2's and 7's hand is in a dangerous and expensive position to call to the river with, having so many over-cards showing in his opponents hand. I stress that the hand should have been folded early, and folded in most cases except if you and your opponent are checking down to the river from fifth street. It would be nearly impossible to get the king hand to fold past fifth street. There is already too much invested in the pot.
4th+ Show Spoiler +
Fourth Street Draws and Bet Strategy
Usually on fourth street there is not yet very much money in the pot and the bet minimum has not yet graduated to the high end of the table's betting max. To determine whether you are going to bet or call your hand to play the next deal of cards, here are some combo's on knowing when to stay in and when to fold.
You have a split pair of fives, rainbowed:
Your opponent shows:
You each stay in the hand to the next deal of cards. The fourth street deal shows:
You:
Opponent:
On fourth street your hand is completely rainbowed with a pair of 5's and your opponent is in betting position. Not only is he in betting position, this fourth street hand is eligible for a double-bet. There is not enough money in the pot to make it worth continuing. In most cases, fold your hand. Fourth street in stud-hi is the only instance where a double-bet can be made. Some card rooms allow that once a double-bet has been made, a double-raise also becomes an option.
The player showing a fourth street pair could have trips, or two pair, and with one of the pairs already showing higher than your pair, it would be wise to fold before the bet minimums graduate and just let the player have the small pot. In this case you are chasing a 5, 9, or Jack. Even if the cards are still live, it is in your best interest to fold if your draw is not a top pair such as A, K, Q, or a hand that will beat 3-of-a-kind.
Now, when you're the one with the fourth street pair, it usually happens that someone will call any bet you make. This is usually the sign of an inexperienced player, a loose player, or someone who has a very strong higher draw against three of a kind with their cards still live. There are circumstances when you should consider calling a fourth street pair; For example:
A fourth street flush draw, straight draw, paired aces with suited high cards with a back-door flush possibility, and two pair on fourth street with over-cards are acceptable to play against a fourth street pair. Keep in mind that folding with whatever hand you have is the best thing to do while the pot is small, and eliminates having to worry about whether the player is playing three-of-a-kind with the possibility of filling up with a full house.
In the case of a bet or double-bet by a fourth street pair, if you have any of the hands listed above a wise move would be to raise their bet. If they re-raise, and you plan on continuing to play, you might as well just re-raise them to the cap. Most likely if they re-raise your raise they have either two-pair on fourth street, or have trips. Most likely you will need for your hand to turn into a full house to continue betting to the river.
A trap strategy often used by players with a fourth street pair playing against someone with over-cards such as:
may check to the next person to make a play that they are afraid of the higher cards when they actually do have three-of a-kind. This way, they can keep other players in the pot betting or calling on the expensive streets hoping to fill up. Slow-playing three-of-a-kind and rolled-up trips can be a good play if it is obvious the opponents are playing high pairs. It can also be dangerous, if in the later streets, the opponents' cards are showing flush and straight possibilities and the three of a kind hasn't filled up yet or the cards they need to fill up become dead.
The person with the pair of 8's could also be checking because really they only have a pair of 8's and are worried that the over-cards of their opponent have already paired. If you are not the person with the fourth street pair, there's a good chance you won't know until you show-down after the river. That is why it is best to just fold while the pot doesn't have a huge investment in it or you know that the card that would give them three-of-a kind on fourth street is already dead. For example, their hand:
vs. your hand:
Since you have 8c in your hand and they are showing a pair of 8's the odds are that they do not have three-of-a-kind. If you saw an 8 get folded by a player at the end of the starting hand deal, once again, the odds are that they are not playing three-of-a-kind. If their 8's are dead, continuing play with your pair of Jacks with a king kicker while jacks and kings are still live you have good odds at winning this pot if you catch your cards. However, with a hand like yours which is rainbowed with one dead card being the 8, you are relying strictly on the jack and the king to hit your hand in the next two streets. The minimum bet beginning with the next street will graduate, and really you have to ask yourself if it is worth folding the small pot to the 8's with live cards, or staying in the hand hoping that they do not already have 2 pair, a back-door flush-draw or a back-door straight draw of some sort.
Once again it is best to just fold the small pot to a fourth street pair so that you are not chasing your cards to make a hand the rest of the way. In the interest of trying to take down the pot, if the person bets out and the hand is heads-up or three-way, I would suggest raising to test their hand strength.
5th+ Show Spoiler +
Fifth Street Draws and Bet Strategy
At a tight table, by fifth street you should have a made hand, a hand with definite top-hand draws or a hand with multiple back-door outs. A 'made' hand would be a fifth street flush, fifth street straight, three-of-a-kind, or two high pair with live cards available to make a set or better. A hand with definite bettering draws are hands that still have live cards to complete a flush, a straight (preferably open-ended), or completing a set to make a full house.
Once your hand is made on fifth street, if you are in first betting position, bet. If you are not in first betting position and there are no over-cards playing against you, raise. For example, your hand: "Aces-up" (paired aces plus another pair) on fifth street with a back-door flush possibility (if your flush is still live) is an excellent hand. If your paired cards are still live you also have the possibility of a back-door full house. If you know on fifth street that a player is betting two pair, raise. If you are in betting position, bet. If you see this on the table (heaven forbid!):
Now what? You are in betting position because your Ace is the high card between the hands. Go back to the very beginning of the starting hand deal, where you viewed all of the up-cards at the table. Were there a lot of diamonds around the table? Look at the table currently. Are there a lot of diamonds around the entire table currently? If not, there is a good possibility that the player has a made hand that is better than yours. Especially if the player called your fifth street bet when your A and T are over-cards to their 4 and 6.
They may not have their hand made just yet. They may still be on a one-card draw to a flush, and they also may have an inside straight draw working in their favor, too. You are now stuck in this hand. Because of the outs that you have in your hand, being a back-door ace-high flush and a back-door full house. Being in first position do you check or bet?
If you bet you may be raised. If you check, the person may bet. Your hand may look just as scary to the other player because, if they know that their hand is not made yet, they could be betting into what looks like an inside straight possibility at their end. An experienced player will raise their fifth street flush whether they have it or not, knocking out other players who do not yet have made hands or draws to a hand that will beat a flush.
If the cards you need to make a better hand are still live you need so see the sixth street card as cheaply as possible. Multi-way with other straights or flushes on the board it is recommended that you fold your hand. If you decide to stay in, check to the flush. The flush will either check or bet. If they need that one last diamond to make their flush, against what looks like a hidden straight, they will also need to see the next card as cheaply as possible. When you check to the flush and he bets, call to see the next card. If the flush checks back they are drawing to a free card. Both of you will need your next card to determine the sixth street and river bet. The hands now look like this: vs. You caught a card that seriously helps your back-door flush. Your opponent catches a card that you needed to make a full house and your opponent just turned a card that gives him what could be a definite flush, a straight, or a straight flush. The A of diamonds is nowhere to be found and you need an ace. The opponent's hand is the better showing hand, however you are still in first betting position with your ace high on the board between the two hands.
Any club or ace will help your hand and that's about it. Even if you get your flush you are risking that the ace and the kicker for your flush will be higher than theirs. Your opponent probably doesn't need any cards at this point. If they do, they probably won't let you know it. It is recommended that you fold your hand. Your cards are most likely dead. You have a 26% chance of making a flush, possibly not having the highest kicker. The opponent is also showing the possibility of some kind of straight and a straight flush. With odds stacked against your hand, I stress that you should fold.
If you feel brave and do not fold at this point or if you sense weakness or a bluff out of the opponent on his hand, check to the flush again and call his bet. Do not bet so that you can be raised if your hand is not the sure winner. You need your card for cheap. Check and call to get your draw card because the hand you have showing is not strong enough to bet and call a raise. If you check to the opponent, and for some strange reason they check back their hand to see a cheap river card as well, pay close attention to that for the river bet.
A made flush will raise any bet made to it on the river. Unless you have made your full house or your flush do not bet. If you have made your full house bet.
If you hit your flush, bet. He will raise. Because you do not know if your kicker is good flush vs. flush, do not re-raise. Simply call the raise.
vs.
If you do not hit your flush or your full house, check and call his bet to see the show-down for cheap. If your river card is not a diamond or a card that your opponent could possibly need to make his straight, there is an extremely high possibility that if he didn't have a card that he needed before, he has it now. Since you decided not to fold and you're in it to the bitter end, check and call the bet. Do not bet to be re-raised. Best hand takes the pot. Odds are that the opponent will win this hand. With the outs that you had, you should have folded. Even if you end up winning, the odds were against you and you really should have folded at either fifth or sixth street. Remember that his hand was probably a better made hand than yours on fifth street since the player was calling against your over-cards with a possible straight showing.
6th & 7th+ Show Spoiler +
Sixth Street thru River Card Strategy
Sixth street can be tricky in a multi-way hand. Heads-up it isn't so bad as long as you know that you and your opponent are racing for the highest two pair and flush and straight possibilities for your opponent appear to be low. Here's an example of a good time to fold on sixth street in a multi-way pot. Your sixth street hand shows:
vs. and vs.
The player with the kings probably opened with a strong pocket pair or a three flush, caught a king, and continued on because hearts are still live at the table creating an out for a back-door heart flush catching another heart, and then another king. Against your cards the player with the kings has already probably beaten your two pair and may have a flush draw or even three kings. Your only out is to catch a Q, 9 or 4. You see a 9 in another person's hand. Your nines are dead leaving you with only two outs; a Q or a 4. You are most likely already beaten when you see the kings pair. Against this hand alone you should now fold.
What is player three doing? They probably opened with a strong pocket pair with their 5 calling your Q and the other person's 7. If it's not a pocket pair their opener was probably a three card flush, and on fourth street they have made a four card flush with plenty of outs since there is only one diamond showing between these hands on fourth street. On fifth street they have paired their fives. Since they are still calling bets against over-cards and your pair of 4's with your Q, it now makes 3 of a kind a possibility for their hand as well. The pair of fives has now turned another diamond with no other new diamonds showing on the table.
Unless there is checking going all around the table to see the river card, fold your hand. You have few outs, over-cards in one hand are showing kings, with a back-door flush possibility, and another hand showing a possible flush and a possible three of a kind or full house. Your late pair of fours is hardly scary since you opened with a queen.
Now an example of a hand to stay in with. Your sixth street hand shows:
vs. and vs Firstly, you would raise the bring-in bet with your ace because of your high pocket pair as long as there are no K's, Q's, and no other A's behind you that might call. If another ace on the table was able to raise before you or called after you, be wary and just call or fold. Keep in mind that if they are playing split aces and you also have an ace, then aces are most likely dead and possibly neither one of you will catch another one in a multi-way hand. Assuming in this hand that you raise the bring-in bet in good position and over-cards to your jacks end up folding, such as any Q or K or A, the table will normally assume that you are raising with split aces, or a pocket pair.
Your only callers will normally be other pocket pairs, three-card flushes, and open-ended straight combinations. Anyone who is rolled-up with trips will re-raise your raise. If this happens either call or fold depending on their show-down history. Re-raise depending on how live your cards are, especially if their door card is lower than your lowest card, and if over-cards to your J's are dead. They could also be re-raising you because they also have a high pocket pair or are testing to see that you are not bluffing with split aces or at least have a very good starting hand. This will let them know that you are serious and there are no free cards for anyone who wants to stay in (no checking will be coming from you).
Any time that you have raised with an ace and remain in first betting position without a flush or straight-draw showing on the board, bet the hand. If you are out of first position under the same circumstances where over-cards to your J's are dead, and cards are turning lower than your J's for other players and the players check to you, bet. If they bet against your ace with a lower card, call.
In this hand, the fourth street card that was dealt out to the players reveals that the jack you needed to make a set is now considered dead. There are no flush or straight draws showing at the table still. Represent that your hand is still strong in first position with the ace by betting.
On fifth street you take a player's T, and a player takes your 6. You need to double up, and someone already may be doubled up, however since you are still showing over-cards to their hand and there are no flush draws or straight draws still showing, you may continue to bet. If you show weakness on fifth street by checking instead of betting to see who has made their second pair, you have just let the table know that you are in trouble. It is recommended that if you started out with a raise and continued to bet in first position up to this point, continue to bet unless there is a flush-draw, straight-draw, or over-card pairs on the board.
Your jacks are still good as long as the circumstances remain a non-threat to your hand. Not having double-paired just yet is not exactly a threat since the other cards are lower and you have outs to catch another pair.
vs. and vs
On sixth street everyone including you, seems to catch a no-help card. The cards they've turned are still lower than your jacks and still no visible threat of a straight or a flush. By now, most likely the players have caught their second pair if they have called your bets all this way. You are still in first position. Bet. A person who has hit their second pair may raise, letting you know that they've hit their second pair. They may also be raising to test you, or they have just hit three-of-a-kind. Call the raise to see your river card. It can be mysterious that lower cards are calling all this way against an ace, and anyone with a hand betting into another hand showing over-cards either really has hit three-of-a-kind, two pair that they think is really good, or it is a desperation play to raise you out hoping that you really don't have two pair, one of the pairs being aces.
vs. and vs Your river card is an ace and your two pair is A's and J's. Your "aces-up" (a pair of aces coupled with another pair of any kind) beats any other player that is playing two-pair. In this hand you are in first position with no visible threats of better hands. Bet.
If you are out of first position and another player bets on the river with no visible threat to your hand and you have a pretty good feel that they are playing two pair, then raise. At best they will call and you will get the additional money they called with at the end. At worst you lose the hand to someone who rivered three-of-a-kind or had a very well hidden (and rivered) full house. Either way, if there is no visible threat to your hand, raising on the river with aces-up against other players that you think are playing pairs is usually worth one extra bet.
Tight & Short Tables+ Show Spoiler +
Tight tables and short handed tables offer the experience of expanding starting hand combinations beyond the 'premiums' listed above. What ends up happening at these types of tables often is that the ante will slowly whittle away your chip stack, and when it's finally time to come into a hand, the pot it is quite small because there are few players that will call to the river, leaving tiny profit for your time.
At a short handed micro-limit table (5 players); 10¢ ante, 25¢ bring-in, 50¢/$1.00 bet:
Say you fold down ten hands waiting for a premium starting hand. Three of the hands you bring in, and fold down. The cost of sitting at the table for these 10 hands is: $1.75.
You go into a hand finally catching a premium one on dealt hand #11 in a 3 way pot. There was no completion of the bring in bet and no raises. Only bets and calls. 1 player folds down on fourth street. The other folds at sixth. The pot has $4.75 in it which you take. ($1.00 of it was the uncalled fifth street bet you placed). The amount that you invested into the pot was $2.35. Your profit is: $2.40. Before the hand, it has cost you $1.75 to sit at the table. Your overall profit in 11 hands is 65¢.
If you were to fold down the next 6 hands with at least one bring in, your profit at the table is now in the negative. Adjust your opening starting hands to include inside and outside straight combinations and suited combinations. As much as possible use these combinations only when your outs to improving the hand are live.
Other starting hand combinations:
Inside-outside straight draw combinations: There are an array of cards you can catch to turn this into a straight. Opening with a low door card and catching any of your cards such as an A, 2, 3, 4, 7, or 9 showing across the streets are scare cards to your opponents allowing for bluff betting even if you do not catch your straight. Low trips are also common at short-handed tables. As long as there is no threat of a higher straight or flush showing, opening with an inside-outside straight draw will work well at one of these tables. As always, the more suited you are, the more outs you create to improvement. At the sign of two 'brick cards' for this hand such as Q and J on fourth and fifth street, you will probably want to drop this hand. At short-handed tables pairs such as Aces and Kings will be less likely to fold down.
Suited low-pair combinations (closely connected):
Ideally you do not want to be playing hands like this with plenty of overcards betting and calling around the table. If all cards playing appear to be low this may be the time to go in with a hand that has a suited kicker with a low pair (closely connected). If you see at any time a pair on the board that you cannot outkick with your highest pair, it is probably best to drop the hand. For example, if your hand paired 4's and 7's and another hand is showing a pair of 9's, your hand will obviously not beat the other if they have also caught a second pair. More times than not playing with this type of hand without any type of scare cards showing up such as a flush draw, straight draw or paint cards will end up having you fold this hand down on sixth.
Keep in mind however, that tripping over another 4 or 7 is possible, as well as you have outs to an inside-outside straight combination (for the most part, any A,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 or 9) improves your hand if you catch them on fourth through sixth appearing as scare cards. (Considering that your opponents are putting you on a straight draw and they are not playing for a flush, for example) You also have a back-door flush draw. There is a lot to work with using this combination if the cards fall correctly into your hand. Very low pairs betting against over-cards usually means something scary, such as a full house, trips or a straight, and the players will take notice of this and usually be wary unless they have a power-hand themselves. The thing to fear is a pair of hidden aces or anyone that has turned an ace on their board. They are probably fearing the same from you as well having opened with a low door card.
On short-handed tables, do not be afraid to bet small pairs, however if it is possible to catch a free card on fifth street, by all means do so to get a better idea of what type of hands are out there to determine if you want to continue betting the more expensive streets. This is where the other players at tight tables also make their determinations on whether or not to stay in a hand. Fifth street and beyond is used to maximize profitability after a better feel for the types of hands being played can be more easily determinable.
Advanced Strategy+ Show Spoiler +
Using advanced strategy at a full table is an investment of your chips to turn family pots into 3-way and heads-up play with the possibility of not having to show down. The starting hand combinations do not change, however the way that the cards are viewed and played at the table does, as well as the betting and raising strategy is adjusted to earn bigger winnings.
I recommend using advanced strategy for the following types of full, low stakes tables. - When the bring-in is rarely raised to a complete bet. (Limpers, shy betters, raisers).
- When a table is too 'casual' and there are 'chasers' at the table.
- When most players at the table are playing very tight combinations.
- When you can identify the strong players from the weak players.
- When other players at the table are using advanced betting strategy.
- When a hand is most likely to be heads-up or 3-way.
Advanced bet strategy consists of: - Completing bring-in bets/Re-raising completed bets.
- Raising any bets made from fourth street when out of first position.
- Raising/re-raising bets to protect your hand from being overturned by better hands.
- Raising/re-raising to the cap on fifth street rounds to the river.
- Raising so much that it puts other players at the table on tilt.
- No allowance for checking. (or rare checking that involves check-raising another player).
- Forcing other players that want to stay in the hand to raise or fold, or you will be the one to do it.
As you can see, advanced bet strategy involves a great deal of raising. And only because the player has an experience of exceptional hands, counting card numbers, suits, and outs, for their hands and other player's hands. The risk of a large investment can break you quickly putting you on tilt, or in the best case, give you an excellent payoff in the end. The point is to be the dominant-aggressive player, folding out the casual players, the shy betters and the weak players, and putting other players on tilt so that they're either calling and raising with crap cards (increasing the money in the pot), or playing combo's so tight that you positively know when they have a made hand and you can fold gracefully.
When using this strategy you identify who is seriously there to win money and who is thinking that they are at the kitchen table at home with friends on a Thursday night. You want the players to pay for calling and betting what they called with. In any case, be sure that your starting hand combination is tight and live, and that you absolutely know when to fold regardless of the investment that you have made.
Do not play this strategy if you are shy with your money or shy with your cards. At all times you must project that you have the most invincible hand between the opponents still calling.
Your prime position to play this type of bet strategy is in late position from the bring-in.
Once you have completed the bring-in or re-raised a complete bet, look at the fourth street cards and compare your hand strength to what the other players have showing. If you have turned a low card or a card that presents no threat of aces-up, trips, a straight or a flush to other players, do not raise with the hand, bet or fold. Mostly if you cannot raise on fourth street with this strategy, even if only to test the hand strength of an opponent, you should fold. If other players have taken cards that you need to make a hand, fold. If another player has turned a fourth street pair, do not play against this hand unless you intend to raise. In most cases you should fold.
Important Considerations
It is crucial to have an understanding of odds for particular hands when using advanced betting strategy. For example, the odds of a one-card draw to an open ended straight is 1 in 5. When considering to raise out the bring-in, naturally you want to consider your position and how many people are in the hand. You do not want to be in early or middle position and raise with fully live cards leaving less than the desired amount of players in the hand necessary for you to meet your drawing odds for later rounds. With this hand, players need to stay in to see fourth street so that you can properly make a determination based on the board if you will be continuing to see the fifth street card.
Another example of understanding the raising strategy to meet your odds, is knowledge of the odds to meet a flush. If your opening hand is a three-card flush you will need to have 4-5 players calling to see fourth street to allow for your 1 in 4.5 drawing odds to be maximized. Heads-up with a three card flush, your odds for catching your flush are less likely. You do not want to raise out potential limpers because you need them to get your odds in alignment to make your hand.
Limping in with these types of hands will also be more likely to reveal what you are up against to start; any raises of the bring-in will usually be a 'tell' as to whom is playing a pair that is worth a raise. Usually raises will come from pairs of 9 or higher, or medium pairs with an live paint card kicker.
If the three-straight or three-flush hand ends up on fourth or fifth street needing only one card to catch the best hand, this is where aggressive raising and re-raising would occur to maximize the amount of money in the pot vs players who are in with big pairs thinking that their hand is still competitive.
Another critical statistic is knowing that fifth street is where pair hands often become counterfeited. In 5000 reviewed hands between stud hi- and stud hi/low, being over-turned or 'counterfeited' consistently occurs on fifth street. An example of this, also located on another section of this site, is a starting hand of QQ5 vs 7A7. While QQ5 at the door vs the pair of 7's is the best hand to start, the odds for being out-turned on fifth street is far too common. If both hands have live cards to hit their second pair, the 7A7 hand will most likely turn it's Ace or trip over another 7 on this street. This is where advanced raising strategy and experience becomes evident and necessary at the table.
With big pairs, aggressive play is necessary to lock out any potential for being over-turned on fifth street. If position allows to three-bet, (re-raise over a complete bet of the bring in), you are cutting out limpers with smaller pairs and three card straights to get the hand as heads-up as possible. This increases your odds to maintain the highest pair, while decreasing the amount of players hoping for enough callers to meet odds to catching straights and flushes.
In this example hand, only the door cards are shown. You are sitting in seat 4 with:
Seat 8 brings-in with 2d. Seat 1 calls with a Tc. Seat 2 folds with a 6s. Seat 3 raises the bring-in to a complete bet with a Kc. You (Seat 4) re-raise the completed bet with your Ah. Seat 5 folds with a Qd. Seat 6 Folds with a 4s. Seat 7 folds with a Js. Seat 8 does not call the re-raise and folds. Seat 1 calls the re-raise. Seat 3 calls the re-raise.
What you have observed from the door cards showing at this table is:
Seat 1 attempted to limp in with their T, has a 3-card flush, or a pair of Ts, since they have called the re-raise. A 3-card straight is unlikely or is a dead draw for Seat 1, because the cards needed to make the straight are already in other people's hands (AKQJ6 are on the board which would help their straight). Seat 3 who has raised the bring-in with their K, with an A sitting behind them is assumed to be representing a pair of kings. Although they may have a 3-card flush combo.
Your hand is strong enough with outs and 100% live cards, that you can raise representing that you have a pair of aces since there are no other aces or threes showing on the board. The queen behind you folds because the king and the ace have both raised representing that they are paired. There are three spades showing on the table plus one in your hand, meaning that a spade flush is a dead draw or at least, a very difficult pull. The spades at the table have all folded correctly because they are left with one less out and the strongest hands already raised in early and middle position. Now the fun begins. On fourth street the deal turns as follows: Normally in a case like this you would fold, assuming that they now have three K's. However, in a 3-way hand, your 3's are 100% live and so is your A and your flush. You've represented that you have a pair of A's. Now what? Out of first position on this hand you will only have two options to test the water; raise, or fold.
If the player actually had a 3-card flush their likelihood of catching their cards is now slim because of the clubs on the table now. Same for the player in seat 1. If seat 3 is simply betting a pair of K's you want to give them the idea that their K's won't hold up. For all that he knows, you could have trip A's already based on your earlier re-raising.
Seat 3 in first position bets. You raise with your cards being live. Seat 1 folds. You are now heads-up. Observe if the player re-raises you or if the player simply calls. He may very well be using the same strategy as you to get you to fold down by re-raising, so be very attentive at any hesitation or a feel that the player may be in some trouble and is looking for a save. Remember that your purpose is to portray that you have an invincible hand. If Player 3 re-raises, re-raise his raise to the bet cap.
At this point the investment in the pot on the part of both of the players is significant. The fifth street card will determine whether to raise or fold. If you cannot raise on fifth street, let the hand go. You are now in betting position with aces-up and a live flush draw and a live full house possibility. The beauty of this hand is that between both of the players, neither player knows what they are playing and it will most likely go to the finish line with capped bets the rest of the way to portray the best hand while fighting for dominance. You are in first position the rest of the way unless he turns yet another K. Bet. Expect to be raised. Re-raise to portray that you have turned a third A.
With two cards left to draw considering your outs and their outs is a must. Once on sixth street if the player turns a card that takes the out to your full house, and helps them on a flush, either cut out the raising, or fold the hand.
Heads-up, even with the clubs that were in play earlier and folded will still make it possible for Seat 3 to draw one more card to a flush.
If on sixth street you turn a card that helps you, continue to bet and re-raise any raises to the cap.
Advanced betting strategy should be played consistently. Raising and re-raising only when you have an incredibly strong hand is a very big tell if you go back to limping in by calling the bring-in. You must be the pace-setter for playing raise-or-fold to get the most out of the pot with strong hands. If you are not folding when you should, or playing combinations where your weaknesses are told often, take a break from aggressive play. Mix it up.
The way you want to view your cards in advanced strategy heads-up and 3-way hands:
Too often players will check to the next player when they have flushes showing or even hesitate to bet because they are focusing on what cards they have in the hole. This is an easy tell to finding out if someone is on a draw or they are too shy or tight to raise. Make an adjustment so that your focus is not the cards in the hole necessarily, but the cards that turn for you that the other players are viewing.
Be conscious of the cards you have in the hole as well as your outs, yet be highly aware that you are the only one that knows what cards you have in the hole, and place bets and raises based on the cards that you have showing. Make bets to represent that your highest card is paired or that you are on a flush or straight draw.
Tips and Tricks+ Show Spoiler +
Articles On The Player Mindset- When Other Players Have Lucky Hands+ Show Spoiler +
Let's get one thing straight right off the bat: Stud poker is not about luck. It is about playing live cards with multiple outs. The person using the best strategy against another hand is going to win. Period.
Only the player with the cards in their hand knows what cards are live for them, so if they are out-turning you, catching the exact cards they needed, and beating you to death on the river, luck has nothing to do with it. There is nothing lucky about calling to the river and winning when opponents bet and call with live cards out. Hands and catches aren't any luckier for them than it is for you when it happens for you.
When you find yourself constantly shaking your head over other players' "luck", your strategy doesn't fit the table. Re-evaluate your starting hand combinations and your fold percentages and adjust. I'm sure you'll find something there.
If and when you become frustrated because it's happening over and over again and a particular seat seems to be on a rush and the word "luck" and "lucky [add expletive here]" are recurring words that pop into your head, sit out, get off of the table, change your seat, or take a break.
It can seem pretty nit-picky to want to change seats, however there are good reasons, and it is your money. Changing seats can be one of the best things to do when another player seems to be on a rush and you have excellent playable combos that aren't catching.
I'll reiterate that if you're calling other players lucky, your strategy doesn't fit the table. Tighten up on your combos to include more outs. If you are not tilted because of your losses, change your bet strategy to one that is more aggressive, however not just out of the blue. Work your way up to it. If other players get a feeling from you that you are tilted then they will continue to call any bets and raises and perhaps continue to catch the cards that they needed yet again.
In this game it can become difficult to read another player's hand based on position. If you are in a multi-way hand with a habitual check-caller, this is a potential hazard. A good example of why you should change a seat would be exactly because of a habitual check-caller. In a 3 way pot, if the player in first position keeps checking to player 2 who is betting and you are calling in last position, it can become extremely difficult to determine if player 2 has a hand that they can actually raise with unless you are going to foot the bill and raise to see if there are any re-raises so that you know if you should fold.
Even still, they may still call so that a player isn't raised out and the pot gets bigger to their benefit. There's nothing lucky about changing your seat to move out of the way of a habitual check-caller and the tide begins to turn and things start going your direction. It's just playing smart. Remember to be okay with folding a great hand, continue to pay attention and trust your instincts and get over the "luck" facade.
- Poker Karma+ Show Spoiler +
That age old saying of, “what you put out comes back to you” is seemingly a truth at a stud table. Often it’s too late before one realizes that they have stayed in hands they had no business being in, in the first place.
Keep an eye on your own self and how you are “showing up” at a table. Are you dominant? Are you the aggressor? Are you showing consistency with showing down competitive hands and even folding down when you should?
What you put out to other players at the table can be sensed by other players. Hesitation, weakness, shy betting, constant checking, is truly a signal that you are playing weak combos, or having trouble knowing when to fold. It will be taken advantage of, just as when you sense it from another player, you jump right on top of it taking advantage of their weaknesses.
You’ll probably notice that when you are playing at your best, and playing aggressively, players of the same caliber and skill will be the ones to step out of the wood-work and up to the challenge of playing a higher skilled game. Everyone gets a run for their money.
When you’re playing questionable hands at a loose table, you have fallen into the “playing nicey-nice” syndrome and you’re lucky to leave the table breaking about even. Of course, there is nothing wrong with playing a casual game to kill some time or just be social, however, if you are playing to win, play from being the winner in you and draw forth the players at the table who are the real competitors and win some money. Notice how what you are putting out is what is drawn to you.
This also includes your cards. Don't play with a bad attitude. If your attitude stinks, so will your cards. That's just the way poker karma works. An exception to that is if someone's attitude is worse than your own. Why spend the money just to compete for proof of who has the worst attitude at the table?
Play to win and you will. Play champion hands and they will come through most of the time, or at least you will know that your hand was the best hand to start with if you get rivered. If you do get rivered take pride in knowing that you played the hand right and continue on that path. When you think your hand may be the losing hand it most likely is. If you’re not sure, then, well…you’re not sure. See how it all comes back?
- Decision Making+ Show Spoiler +
Taking time to mull over decisions shows weakness in your play, especially if you were to call. Really, if you have to ‘think’ about anything, you already have your answer, and the answer most likely is to fold. Properly you should know when calling with your starting hand exactly which cards will help you so that if they do not turn, you can easily fold or make a decision to call for one bet without hesitation.
By simply looking at the cards in your hand, as soon as the next card is dealt out you should already know if the card was no help, if it provided you with possibilities for outs, or made your hand. You shouldn’t have to necessarily look across the board if you are playing tight combinations. You will know if your cards have hit or not regardless of what other cards are playing in another player’s hand.
Definitely think about what you are doing, and at the same time do not let other players know it. Taking obvious periods of time to think about checking, calling or betting opens the door for your opponents to see weakness in your hand. At all times you must either represent that your hand is strong with multiple outs, or that you will fold.
Alternatively taking a ‘think’ period or hesitating to call a bet or raise can be used as a strategy to hide strong hands and keep your opponent betting or calling into your made hand. This should be done under two conditions when you know that you know you have the winning hand; on later streets when the bets have graduated to the table maximum and a scare card comes up on your opponent’s hand so he has an idea of exactly why you need to take a moment to think. If your opponents are accustomed to your quick responses and all of a sudden you take a moment to think, it’s can be an obvious tell that you are slow playing a very strong hand.
The second condition is if you have an early-made hand such as rolled up trips, aces- or kings-up on fourth street, or a fifth street hidden full house. With early-made hands, the rhythm of your betting should remain consistent at a medium or slow pace if you use hesitation strategy. When using hesitation strategy, bets and calls coming from you should not go at the speed of zero-to-sixty in split seconds if you want to get the most out of having your opponents continue to bet into the pot. Keep the rhythm and the pace even and consistently a tad bit slower than your norm from the time the bring-in is made at the table. This will give them the idea that you are on some sort of a draw or that you are really concentrating on their hand looking scary.
When the opportunity calls and a player has shown weakness in their hand by thinking and you know that you have the better hand with live outs to make it even better, raise them if your position allows. You might even make your calls more quickly than normal to scare them off of the hand representing that your hand is dominant.
- Playing On The Defensive+ Show Spoiler +
When you become the annoying little bastard who is check-calling nearly every street of every hand, do yourself and everyone at the table a favor and please sit out, or, for God’s sake, FOLD. If you’re constantly chasing your hands against already-made hands and you’re questioning your outs and if your card(s) will catch, this is very poor play. You’ll be taken advantage of, and you won’t see much as far as winnings are concerned. You’ll maybe break even if you’re that good at not losing an entire wad while playing that terribly. Being on the receiving end of this type of play is always welcome, however, you do not want to be the person giving away the free money, right?
Playing “not-to-lose” is a terrible way to play, and often it means that you are on tilt from one-too-many bad beats or you’re mindset just isn’t with the game altogether. Sure, there are hands where you legitimately will be check-calling. For instance when you know that your cards are still live to a flush or a straight and someone has just turned aces up or three of a kind and you know they will definitely raise you.
When check-calling becomes a habit or if it is already a habit, cut it out. If you are not playing confidently and want to win significant money, get back on your horse and start playing up to par. Otherwise, sit out, leave or continue the casual play if that’s what you’ve set out to do.
The habit of this type of play at a micro-limit (penny and dollar tables) inhibits growth and necessary skills to advance when playing at higher limit tables. Having your chip stack whittled down while learning how to adjust is a very costly lesson and just may keep you at lower limits for lack of understanding about how the strategy changes at higher limit tables. (see Making the Move)
To get back in focus, leave the past behind you. Re-identify the strong players at the table. (You are probably by now pegged as a weak one). Re-evaluate the starting combos, and pay attention to the door cards and start counting suits and numbers. If you are unable to stay focused on those things, it is not the best time to play. What you want to do with your money from there is up to you. Be disciplined and do not fool yourself into thinking that you’ll turn over a new leaf when you aren’t exactly confident that you will.
Especially in tournament play at the higher levels after losing a significant amount of chips on a bad beat, defensive play may seem like the right strategy, yet in most cases it is not. If you have no business in a hand, get out right away. Tighten your strategy to stretch out the chips and bets, and when you do go into a hand play to win.
A good deal of this is all learned, or, we become aware of playing defensively, in hindsight. Be attentive at all times of how you are representing your cards and presenting your play at a table. If you’re in a space where you are intimidated sit out and take a break until you regain confidence and you’ve let the past go. If you are in a tournament where time cannot be afforded to do so because the bet minimums are going up, your only save is to shift your thinking out of, “playing not to lose” mode straight into “playing to win” mode however you need to do it, and only you know how it can be done.
- Improving+ Show Spoiler +
Having well-rounded skill is an important part of creating and maintaining profit while playing poker.
Many professionals play more than one type of poker, each having their favorite. While Dave “The Devilfish” Ulliot, has earned a reputation in the No-Limit Texas Hold ‘Em poker community, his favorite game of poker is actually Omaha!
Playing different types of poker and getting a feel for each of their strategies helps in many ways. For me, although 7 card stud is my poker game of choice, I will not deny that the other types of poker that I play have helped develop my skill with 7card stud.
The strategies are different for each type of game you play. Limit and No-Limit Texas Hold ‘em have different strategies between them even though they are basically the same game, just as 7 card stud and Stud 8/b have different strategies, as well as Omaha-Hi strategy is different than Omaha 8/b and even pot- limit Omaha games.
Texas Hold ‘em is a lesson on playing position, and only playing with top quality hands. It also teaches one how to fold playable hands, such as having a bottom or middle pair on the board with overcards in multi-way pots. It is especially helpful with teaching the skills of bluffing, betting, and raising on the ‘come’ based on odds for straights and flushes.
How this ties in to increasing prosperity at 7 card stud poker is; being under the pressure of paying an ante to see your first three cards every round, it can be tempting to call with any paired hand at times. Playing hold ‘em helps to discipline the temptation of a player to play lesser quality hands such as a pair of sixes with a Jack kicker, and other combinations depending on your position. Playing fewer hands with only the best combinations and consideration calling hands in a favorable position will increase your win percentage. It also offers the ability to raise and re-raise with less fear when your hand is currently dominant.
Omaha offers the development of skill to read another player’s hand and understand what types of combinations are possible to open with. Each turn of cards can become increasingly more difficult to bet or call with, while players have so many cards in the hole. Sets, flushes, straights, and full houses are common in Omaha, which are the types of hands most preferable to strive for in 7 card stud. Learning Omaha strategy is especially helpful for stud players at middle and higher limits, training a player to be patient and only play with the best possible hands, identifying the best opening combinations, and folding down high two pair with high possibilities of better hands in play.
While these are the most popular types of poker, basically any additional type of poker game that is played, is a skill enhancer for your poker game of choice.
In the ‘Top Recommendations’ section of this site, Poker School is listed exactly for this reason.; enhancement of skill and increasing experience while not having to spend a lot of income to learn. While the money at the Poker School tables is not real money, the ranking system and their play chip money restrictions sets a guideline for players to play competitively, and skillfully.
What unfortunately took me many dollars over time to gain experience at the real money tables with, I would have learned through Poker School Online, had it been around earlier, or had I been aware of the benefits of playing at the site sooner. I encourage anyone and everyone to learn and practice the skills required of other types of poker, take the knowledge, and convert it while playing any one specific card game.
Whether through Poker School Online, strategy literature, audio lessons, online and offline software, or all of the above, going beyond your current knowledge of or focus on one type of poker game points you in a direction of greater benefit.
- Moving up limits+ Show Spoiler +
Play strategy when moving from lower to higher limit tables changes for 7 card stud. In Texas Hold ‘Em, it is argued that your starting hands, betting and play strategy should remain consistent at any limit table. This idea is not true for 7 card stud.
At a full 8-player micro-limit table, (penny and dollar limits) there may be 6-to-all-8 players seeing the fourth and fifth street cards. The play is looser in the sense that the pots are more multi-way (a lot of people in the hand), and players are less likely to fold even when the obvious flushes and straights are on the board and a few players have hit two-pair.
Many times the bring-in is not raised out and everyone gets a chance to play. The micro-limit tables are a casual and fun way to play and get experience on all of the possibilities that can occur, and an opportunity to understand when you are beat and when to lay down a hand. Early and middle round raising rarely occurs at micro-limit tables. Usually raising and re-raising will occur on the last two streets of the hand when a player has 3 of a kind or better.
‘Chasing’ as it is known, or checking-and-calling to see the next card for as inexpensively as possible to stay in a hand to the river is a very common practice at micro-limit tables. Many tables will have players seated that are known as a “calling station". To paint an example picture of, “calling station” play; with 8 people in a hand, 7 people check around the table, the last person bets, and all 7 people call behind the bettor for nearly each round to the river.
At the higher limit tables underestimating or having a lack of understanding for the betting strategy is not so forgiving. Players with Kings or Aces-up by fifth street will not hesitate to re-raise over players betting out with flushes and straights showing. Even a meager pair of 5’s will take the opportunity to re-raise over a pair of 9’s or anyone with two pair in the hopes that if there are weak or scared players in a hand, they will drop out and lay down the better hand increasing the most aggressive player's opportunity to take the pot.
This more advanced type of betting strategy is known as “protecting a hand”. When a high pair or two pair make someone’s hand they will raise and re-raise in early rounds to get other players at the table to fold down so they will not be over-drawn on later streets.
This strategy works well as a scare tactic because it makes it difficult to tell what exactly the hand is that they are playing. They could be raising or re-raising with simply a single high pair, two pair, three of a kind, a one card draw to a flush with odds for it hitting. You will not know necessarily by what cards or out, just simply by the 'feel' of the player by their previous play history at the table and the history of wins at the showdown.
I do not suggest using hand-protection strategy for micro-limit tables with multi-way pots because of the unlikely ness of players to fold in the middle rounds, often causing your nice pair or two pair to become overturned by better cards in other people's hands on later streets.
Heads-up at micro-limit tables, and definitely at higher limit tables, I do recommend that putting hand protection strategy to use.
I have included an example hand from my own personal hand history on how hand protection strategy works, at the end of this article.
All-in-all when moving from a lower limit table to a higher limit table, be prepared to adjust to different sets of opening cards that you would otherwise not normally play; a pair of 4s with an 8 kicker vs door card 10s and above that have completed the bring in bet, for example. Know that the strategy changes mostly to “bet, raise, or fold” with little, if any, checking, and definitely know when to fold. Do not be afraid when you have hit two pair that you should protect your hand early to any draws that may be coming for straights and flushes by betting, raising or re-raising. Most likely with a one-card draw to a flush on fourth street you should raise at any opportunity possible at the possibility of it hitting to increase your pay-off down the line.
- Stud Poker Odds+ Show Spoiler +
Based on the probability of how many ways particular hands that can be dealt at a table with seven cards from a 52 card deck, the way that you want to play your combinations is to achieve the higher ranking hands where probabilities aren't out of the range of 'realistic'. You also don't want to be playing hands that are far too common and can be easily beaten.
Hand 7 cards
Straight Flush 41,584
Four of a Kind 224,848
Full House 3,473,184
Flush 4,047,644
Straight 6,180,020
Three of a Kind 6,461,620
Two Pair 31,433,400
One Pair 58,627,800
High Card 23,294,460
Looking down the chart which is arranged from the highest possible made hand to the lowest hand, you see that there is a large mathematical leap between ways that a four-of-a kind hand and a full house can be dealt with seven cards. The range of realistically catching better than a full house comes to a screeching halt. There is another large gap between three-of-a-kind and two pair.
The starting hand combination strategy used for winning seven card stud hands, promotes aspiring to achieve the median; three of a kind or better. The odds of catching the median hands differ depending on how many players are at a table, how many players continue on to later betting rounds, and the type of hands that any player at a table is striving to achieve.
In my experience at fully seated low-stakes tables, it is not uncommon that players are using combinations that will make two pair or better. When playing for two pair, naturally you will want to have the highest two pair, and strategy is adjusted accordingly.
The table below shows odds for flushes and straights. You can determine your odds based on the number of persons in a multi-way pot. For example, if you have one card to draw to a flush, your best odds to catch your flush is to have 4-5 people calling bets. Straights happen most often at stud hi/low tables because there are so many people in the hand at a time, more closely matching the odds needed to catch that particular hand.
Draw one card with Odds
Four cards to a flush 1 in 4.5
Double open-ended straight 1 in 5
Open-ended straight (1 end) 1 in 11
Inside Straight 1 in 11
Double open-ended straight flush 1 in 23
Open-ended straight flush (1 end) 1 in 46
Inside Straight Flush 1 in 46
Rolled up with 3-of-a-kind 40% chance of improvement to a full house by the river.
- Comparative Hand Value+ Show Spoiler +
Making adjustments for dollar values between players when raising occurs, is highly important to take into consideration.
I've folded down many a winning hand in middle and late bet rounds to re-raisers because I haven't adjusted the value of my dollar to the dollar value another player may place on the cards in their own hand. It can be a challenge to push through top pairs vs. other two-pair if I'm not keen to the value another player places on particular cards in play.
We all pretty much know by now that getting a feel for the players around the table is critical, and the sooner the better. An adjustment that needs to be managed immediately is observing the bet value that other players place on particular cards. Especially opening single pairs and two pair on later streets.
At the door, a pair of hidden or split Jacks may very well be worth completing the bring-in bet, especially if there are no Aces showing. However, for me, it does not warrant re-raising a player that has made a complete bet under average circumstances. For example, a door card 8 completed the bring-in bet in early position. I am in late position with my pair of Jacks. I would personally just call and not re-raise over the 8’s completed bet, whether or not Aces are showing at the door or if I have an Ace in my hand.
To another player, re-raising a completed bet with a Jack showing at the door may be a tell as to the dollar value that they place on that particular hand, letting you know that they will raise when they have a pair of face cards to open with. Adjustments can be then made when participating against a player so that you are not continuously raised out of a hand that may just be the best one. Some players will three bet when they have any high pairs with live outs to three-of-a-kind. Simply keep an eye on players who are three-betting at the door and what they are showing down with. Someone three-betting a pair of 8's to make you fold down your split pair of tens to open may be costing you.
In some stud 8 games at the door, lows can be likely to raise and re-raise with a draw to a low, perhaps disguising a flush draw, or straight draw as well.
It’s not to say that re-raising over the 8 with a pair of Jacks would not be correct under favorable circumstances. What I am pointing out is that in general, while a pair of Jacks in my hand doesn’t warrant a re-raise by my personal strategy for a full table or a multi-way pot to open, doesn’t mean that it is the same for another player’s strategy. Re-raisers may often believe that the hand they are carrying at present is truly the best hand. A raise of $5.00 means differently from one person to another.
So just as an FYI, a reminder, or however you want to view it, keep in mind to be aware of the dollar values players put on their hands and include it into your evaluations so that you aren't folding down the winning hand out of fear when there may be nothing to fear at all.
- Counting Cards+ Show Spoiler +
The idea behind counting cards in seven card stud is to create an advantage for determining hands, and calling and raising bets. Counting cards and suits becomes easier with experience, and over time, becomes more and more second nature.
Counting cards in stud isn't necessarily making a check-list of all of the cards that are out of play and having to memorize the cards for each and every hand. Don't give up on this strategy because it sounds difficult. It is probably one of the most important strategies to use to increase your winnings.
The more people that are in the hand, the easier it is to determine which cards are live, and what type of hands are playing. If you are playing online and have selected the option of using the four-colored deck, card counting is much easier.
The method of card counting that I use at low limit tables and stud 8/b with family pots can be compared to "connect the dots". With this type of card counting you are using your own hand as the main reference for knocking dead hands and cards off of the list of possibilities.
When the first round deal is completed, look at all of the door cards. Read which cards are out that you would need to make any type of connected straight, inside or out. You do not need to memorize these numbers. Just know that you should probably consider the cards dead if you have one or more of them in your hand and you need it/them to make a pair or better. If you have 69J, you will be looking at door cards on the table for any 5, 7, 8, T, and Q, as well as any other 6, 9, or J to pair your hand.
With the example starting hand above you are not playing for a straight when you are counting the cards. (I would hope you would pick a better opener for a straight) You are only using this as a reference of what cards are out. At the end of the first comparison you have now potentially either added or eliminated 8 cards from the deck not including the card numbers in your own hand.
Count the number of same suits in comparison to your hand to make a flush. This will give you a general idea of what type of flush is dead, and which type of flush is still live. You do not need to memorize how many of each suit is out, just what type of flush is potentially dead and what is live.
On fourth street:
Once again you will be looking at the cards at the table for anything that would have potentially given your hand a straight or a flush to eliminate cards from the deck, the types of hands being played, and how live the cards in your hand are. This potentially eliminates another 8 cards from the deck as well, and begins to give you an idea of what hands other players are betting and calling with so that you have a better idea of when to fold. When checking the flush draws you will be looking at any double suited 4th street cards in a hand.
For example, if there were too many hearts on the table at the door and you see a hand that has two hearts up on fourth street with yet more hearts on the table, most likely the possibility for a heart flush is not a threat. It is especially evident that a player is on a draw if they are calling with low or medium cards with other overcards at the table. Also beware of higher pocket pairs and potentially two pair on fourth street which leaves the possibility open for an early full house.
On fifth street:
The type of hands being played becomes more obvious. Find the cards again that would have potentially given your hand a straight or a flush. Check for the live or dead cards that would make your hand. Use the past information you have collected to determine who is drawing to straights and flushes. Be aware of overcards to your hand that are calling. Pay attention to who is checking and where to perhaps get an idea of which card was potentially their strength. (For example someone checked when they turned a J and bet when they turned a 7).
Check the cards for anything that is duplicated on the board such as a K appearing in three different hands. There should be several duplicates on the board between fifth and sixth street and they can usually be considered dead to being paired in someone's hand. This is especially helpful when determining if the King that re-raised the bring-in was bluffing a split pair or has a high pocket pair and used the king for leverage to intimidate other medium paired starting hands.
If you or anyone else has cards in their hand that would make someone else's straight, they are still potentially on a draw, however do not underestimate that they may have made their straight on fifth or still have one live inside or outside card for that hand to be made.
On fifth street beware of any pairs appearing on the board that could potentially have given a player three of a kind. Also beware of any straight draws. At a full table with a lot of callers you have seen nearly half of the deck of cards. Determine if any fifth street flushes that appear are still potentially live.
With practice, by fifth and sixth street at a low limit stud-hi table, you will most likely know what type of hands are playing a good percentage of the time.
You will also have a solid grasp of what cards are still live for you to make a weak hand stronger, or possibly out draw players with early made hands by the river. - Slow-Playing Aces and Trips+ Show Spoiler +
You may hear it around the table… “aces suck”. Depending on how tight the table is, how many people are in the hand, if other aces are still live, and what position you are in (in relation to the bring-in), you can too often over-estimate them with a raise even though it may very well be the best starting hand at the table.
There’s an old saying to never slow play your aces, however, with only three cards in each hand the early investment on hoping to catch two pair, when flushes and straights show up on later streets, it could be just as beneficial to just call with them and raise later on when there are no threats of flushes and straights on the board.
Especially if you are playing to win money and are not just there for practice or just to kill some time, the name of the game is to manipulate money out of players getting them to call to the river with lesser hands, and tilt them with your strategy so that they are spending even more money trying to get back at you or get their money back. Humility with this strategy is a must. Getting too cocky after winning a few hands like this may get you in trouble later on, ending up tilting you instead, so it is important to mix up your strategy.
Heads up, three-way, and short handed at a loose table, you do not want to slow play a pair of aces.
When in late position with many callers, it is a very rare occasion that I have seen the lot of players who just called, actually fold a late position raise at the door. In late position with many callers, raising the bring-in only commits players to the pot. They’ve already invested early with one call, so calling a raise from an ace usually isn’t enough to scare people at the door when the deck is nearly completely live. Especially when seeing fourth street is still an inexpensive round allowing most players to see the next card.
Additionally, when you are in late position with your aces, you may consider catching a third ace as dead (odds of catching trips is slim), under the assumption that a player has called an opening combination that includes an ace in their hand.
Consider raising with your door card ace only if you are in early position, or late position with few callers, and in middle position if there are other face cards behind you that want to take a stab at out-turning your aces.
If you raise your ace in middle position and callers behind you have medium door cards showing, they are inclined to think that you are either bluffing, or have high hidden pocket pairs, flush, or straight draws if they call.
Potentially it’s beneficial to you to slow play a door card ace by simply calling so that the pot piles up bigger, with hands calling to the river.
Mix up the raising to confuse players on your strategy. After showing down a few winning aces-up hands, that are slow played, raise the bring-in every once in a while with a door card ace or even marginal hands such as Jacks or even 8’s to keep them guessing on when exactly it is that you raise.
Slow-playing trips is more difficult to do. Most times you have paired to board to catch them which often puts you in first position for betting. If the trips are small or medium, you may make an attempt at a check raise if there are plenty of over-cards on the board, although I don’t recommend doing that unless someone for sure has two high pair and thinks that you’re afraid that the pair you have showing isn’t good enough to beat theirs.
If you have a pocket pair and have just turned three of a kind on fourth street, I recommend that you do not raise until you have hit fifth street to commit the players to the pot to the river. Raising on fourth street makes it easier for the players to fold down decreasing the potential money going into the pot.
Expect that after your raise if you are not in betting position that the players will check and call, wanting to see the river, however not wanting to spend the money calling your raises to do it.
The difference between raising on fourth and fifth street could be a few extra dollars because players are not yet committed to the hand on the expensive streets. By all means, if the players at the table will call anything with just about any type of hand on the board, raise on fourth.
- Adopting Strategies+ Show Spoiler +
Strategy sites such as this one, as well as media articles, and books with information on 7 card stud poker, are becoming easier to find with the current explosion of popularity for playing the game. When reading about strategy, a few questions should be asked before adopting it for your own use. With all of the information out there, I’d like to offer some tips on how to sift through which strategies are most likely to help you succeed with what your goal is.
- Does the strategy being presented to you for a particular type of hand fall into alignment with making money or simply breaking even?
Identify how the consistent use of the strategy will work in the long-run as opposed to how it will work short-term at the table limits you currently play at. When moving up to a higher stakes table, consider if the strategy you are accustomed to will adjust to fit the strategy of the higher table limit. Depending on how high you move up in stakes or if it is a tournament table vs. a ring table, the strategy may change completely.
- Does the strategy fit with the goal you have chosen for your play sessions?
If your goal is to play for the social and casual reasons and the hope is to break even or perhaps gain a small profit, the strategy you use will create just that. If you are sitting down with the intention to create a large profit, your strategy fits to create that as well.
- Does the strategy being presented to you back its claims for success or failure based on known variables in the game such as odds? Does the strategy express under what circumstances it should be used or not used?
Claims made on why to use or not use a strategy should make sense in accordance with odds and specific situations. Being advised not play a certain way with no reference to pot odds or odds to catching a card, should be elaborated, since many variables can influence the outcome of a hand. Keep in mind that using specific strategies will affect your bankroll.
- Would this strategy be one that a professional player would use?
If a professional were playing in a tournament or at the same table limit you are playing, would they be likely to use this strategy to create an advantage vs. the players at the table?
To summarize, make a determination on whether or not to use a strategy based on it’s earning potential, if it is something to be used with consistency or only under specific circumstances, if the strategy proposal supports its claims to use or not use it based on drawing or pot odds, and if it is a strategy that a professional player would put to use. It’s easy to read about something that makes sense for a game in general. Be sure that the strategy use not only makes sense for the game, but makes sense for the type of tables you play at.
- Understanding Position+ Show Spoiler +
In the Strategy section of this site, and especially the section written for tournament play, I mention the importance of your position in relation to the bring-in when making a decision to go in with a starting hand. Below is an illustration of how to understand just how your position to call or raise after the bring-in affects your bankroll, and can potentially keep you out of harm’s way if your starting hand is questionable to call. Study the table below to get a feel for the options you have when considering to play this hand.
At this table you are sitting at seat #4 with split Nine’s and a Jack kicker.At the door:Seat 1 shows a Jh, Seat 2 shows 8d, Seat 3 shows 7s, Seat 4 (you) show 9s, Seat 5 shows Qh, Seat 6 shows As, Seat 7 shows Qd, Seat 8 shows Ks.
You can roughly estimate the following odds with the cards in your hand and with the other cards showing at the door: High straights are dead. Jacks are dead, Queens are dead, spade flush is dead. Diamond flush is quite possibly dead.
You can also estimate that any callers to this hand will already have a pair, or a three flush that is not of spades and probably not of diamonds.
You are first to act behind the bring-in. What you must consider when playing this hand is the following:
- Your table image.
Have you consistently shown down winning or at least competitive hands while at this table? This may mean the difference between becoming bluffed off of this hand if you decide to come in, or potentially stealing the pot.
- The opponents behind you.
If you raise the bring-in being first to act, how likely would it be that the players behind you will fold based on their play history in this session vs. you? Which of the players behind you is a solid or tight enough player that you would surely know that they had a higher draw against you if they called? Which players would be likely to bluff with their high card showing at the door?
- What could you hope for when getting into this hand?
What you have is a pair of Nines. One other jack that you need to possibly make two pair is already in seat #1, who could very possibly have a pair of Jacks already. The spades you need to hit a late flush are already out on the table. The cards you need to complete a straight are already showing at the table. At best what you could hope for is a pot steal, a third nine, or possibly another running pair of different card ranks (such as 4-4 for example) for two pair against higher pairs that may call behind you.
I will suggest that in this position with low odds to improve your hand, folding would be a wise decision. Since you have only invested the ante and no more, you have a very minute loss by choosing to not get involved, as opposed to investing when involvement could be saved for a better situation. This hand would have more odds for success if played in later position with perhaps only one other caller. Consider that after coming into this hand, on fourth street you will most likely not be in first position to act because you do not yet have a high face-card showing. The face card will be betting into you. It gives you little information in the way of your hand’s strength vs. your opponent. This is an especially key point to remember in regards to position in relation to the bring-in and the cards behind you.
Keeping your position in mind is one of the most important things to consider at a table when deciding to go into a hand with pairs that are lower than most of the door cards at the table. Especially when you are limited with the outs you have.
If the table limit you are playing and your session’s history as well as your opponents’ play history allows for this hand to be played, my suggestion on how to play this hand is as follows, using advanced betting strategy and hand-protection strategy:
- How would I play this hand to increase my odds for success?
With the higher cards behind you and in first position to act, simply calling could possibly be a grave mistake. Any other callers who will get in for cheap to see the next card will give you no information as to where your hand stands in terms of strength. You are also risking the possibility of allowing the bring-in player in seat #3 to see his next card for free if you don’t invest in your hand.
The last thing you will want to do by coming into this hand, having to dodge all of the face cards behind you, is to give them the impression that your hand is weak or marginal. Any one of the face cards can take the opportunity to take advantage of this and bluff you out of the hand just based on the door card alone. Let them know that you are serious about playing this hand, and the people who are most likely to call will have a serious hand since you have raised in the position you are in with so much to dodge.
If you were to come into this hand, my suggestion with possible dead high-cards behind you, would be to raise the bring-in with to a completed bet to protect your pair. Hopefully the players behind you will realize that their high draws and flushes are mostly dead, and fold the pot down to you. Remember that any callers in this hand are likely to have a pair that is live to making two pair or with other outs such as a flush that is still live.
Fourth street is a critical play and will require another investment to test the hand-strength of your opponent(s) if they bet out. While it is likely they called your completed bet because they have a pair, it is just as likely that they will be betting out on a bluff to make an attempt to steal the pot because they had a card higher than yours showing at the door.
Assuming that an opponent will bet out on fourth, my suggestion would be to raise, protecting and investing into your hand on an inexpensive street unless they have paired the door card, or another card higher than your pair has just fallen into their hand. (In this case it would be a Ten or better) If you are re-raised, be prepared to fold down your hand. If they check to you on fourth, place a bet. If you are check-raised, you are most likely beaten, or the opponent has an incredible draw and I highly suggest letting the hand go while the pot is still small and the minimum bet is still at the low end.
If an opponent has bet out, you have raised, and they elect to simply call: After the fifth street card is dealt, if they bet out again, there is a good chance that you are beaten and should fold. If they check to you, I suggest checking through to get the sixth street card for free, and observe if either of your hands has improved or any scare cards have fallen. Play the last street according to the cards that have fallen, the potential of your opponent(s) to make a play for the pot on a bluff or semi-bluff, and how your own hand has improved, if at all. - Free Raising
From 2+2 FAQ:+ Show Spoiler +
Frequently Asked Questions:
Q. I have a free-roll that starts in three minutes and I've never played stud in my life. Rolled-up trips are very strong and should be played strongly. If the game is loose, raise early and often. In a tighter game, you may want to slow-play, but it's easy to get burned this way.
Three-flushes are usually good hands, but you usually don't want more than two of your suit gone. You don't want to play a small three-flush heads-up against a big pair, but they do well in most multi-way pots. If you don't pick up a fourth flush card on fourth street, you should usually fold unless you have paired, your hand has other possibilities, or the pot is large.
Three-card straights are trouble. Most players lose money on straight draws, and I don't make much. If you've never played stud before, you would probably be best off folding anything lower than QJT or so. If you are going to play smaller three-straights, be sure that your needed cards are live.
Most of your playable hands are going to be pairs. Not all pairs are playable, though. Obviously, the bigger the better and the more live the better. A quality kicker helps as well. (A9)9 and (T9)9 are much better than (94)9. Aces through Queens should usually raise. Jacks through Nines should sometimes raise and sometimes call. Eights and lower should sometimes limp and often fold, especially the smallest pairs, although you may want to raise with these hands if there is a good chance to steal the antes. If someone with a door card higher than your pair raises, you should at least consider folding unless you think he is on a steal. Exactly how you play your pair will depend on the cards that are out, the action, your kicker, and other factors. 7CS4AP spends many pages on this subject.
Stealing becomes more important as you get to the later stages of the tournament, but it isn't as important as it is in, say, limit hold'em. The ante is the same whether there are two players or eight. With two players, however, you will be the bring-in much more often. In hold'em, you will have the blinds much more often in a short-handed situation, so you have to play looser and more aggressive than you do at a full table. In stud, your overhead per hand will only go up a little, so you don't need to loosen up nearly as much. Q. Dude, how can you play 7-card stud with eight players? Like, you'll run out of cards! 7 x 8 = 56 and there are only 52 cards in the deck! Like, y'know? It is relatively rare to run out of cards in an eight-handed game, but when that happens, a community card is dealt on seventh street. Q. How big of a bankroll do I need to play a particular limit? The 300 big bet guideline so often quoted for hold'em is applicable for stud. This assumes that you are playing for a living (or at least that you are somewhat dependent upon poker for income) and that going broke is therefore unacceptable. If you are playing for a living, you might want to have a bit more than this. If you have a day job, and most of us do, these considerations are not nearly as important. If you're playing $.50/1.00 and lose your online bankroll, is it really going to be that hard to come up with another $25 or $50 to get back in action? If the thought of being out of action for a week or two until your next paycheck comes is too much for you to bear, you might seek out Gamblers Anonymous. I also think that some players unnecessarily hold themselves back by imposing unnecessarily stringent bankroll requirements on themselves. Personally, when I first moved up to $6/12 and $8/16, it was because I had a good job and a working wife, so it really wasn't that big a deal to peel off $300-400 if the need arose.
Q. How the hell am I supposed to remember all these damned cards anyway?
Being able to remember the cards that have shown is essential for true expert play. Fortunately for hacks like me, true expert play is not necessary to get the money in most games. DocAZ/Doctavian had a couple of excellent posts on the subject a few years back:
Post 1
Post 2
Until your memorization skills improve, concentrate on remembering cards that you need and that your opponents need. If you start with (J9)9, be sure to note any Nines or Jacks that are out. To a lesser extent, take note of straight cards that are out, especially the Tens. If your opponent is showing clubs, take note of how many clubs have shown.[list]Q. Are there any programs to help me remember the folded cards in my online game?[list]There is a thread discussing such a program and the ethics surrounding it he here. There is another thread on the ethics issue here. Q. Is there a program that can show how various hands do head-to-head? Q. My local room/favorite site has a stud game with a high ante and/or rake. Is this game beatable? Generally speaking, a high ante by itself will not make a game unbeatable. It may reduce the good player's edge, but it won't eliminate it. Take Party's old $.50/1.00 game. This game had an ante of $.25, which was ridiculously high relative to the stakes. Nonetheless, the game was beatable because the players were so bad.
By the same token, while the rake in most low-limit casino stud games is brutally high, the players in the game are usually bad enough that the game is still plenty beatable. The rake in many B&M stud games is right around one big bet, which is very high. It is not unusual, however, for you to have multiple opponents making mistakes that add up to more than that 1 BB apiece. The casino is taking a lot of money off of the table, but there is usually still enough for you to get your share.
Now it could be that mostly half-decent players show up on a particular day, and the rake will be harder to overcome. Perhaps the game might still be beatable for a small amount, but you might be better off playing hold'em. This usually won't be the case in live games, though.
By way of example, I play at Canterbury Park in Minnesota. While I don't play in this game very often anymore, when the room first opened in 2000, I played quite a bit in their $2/4 stud game. This game has a $.50 ante and a $1 force. The rake is 10% capped at $4.50. There is a $1 jackpot drop on all pots of $15 or more. I tipped $1 on virtually every pot I won. This is an awful lot of overhead to fade, but I beat the game for about $7/hr because the players were so atrocious.
On-line rooms have lower rakes than brick and mortar casinos, and the cap is lower in the smaller on-line games, so the rake usually isn't a significant factor in determining whether a game is beatable.
The rake in stud/8 is more of a factor because of the split pot. There have to be some bad players to cover the rake. Fortunately, stud/8 is probably the game that most players play the worst. Q. Geez, what are the odds? Some commonly asked odds questions:
The chance of being rolled-up on any given hand is (3/51)*(2/50) = 1/425 or 424:1 against.
Absent any other information, if you start with four to a flush, you will make your flush about 47% of the time. Absent any other information, if you start with four to an open-ended straight draw, you will make your straight about 43% of the time. Absent any other information, if you start with four to a low, you will make an Eight-low or better about 71% of the time.
An overly detailed discussion of flush odds can be found here.
Odds
Stud HUD
Hand Simulator
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hoylemj   United States. May 27 2009 15:12. Posts 840 | | |
Articles and the like
LP Articles:+ Show Spoiler +
The Exploitive vs Optimal Approach+ Show Spoiler +
by Tomsom
Exploitive VS. Optimal
In poker strategy we can discern two general types of approach to different situations - the exploitive one and the optimal one.
The exploitive approach is where we, based on whatever information we might have, try to exploit our opponents leaks, but at the same becoming exploitable ourselves. The goal of the optimal one, on the other hand, is to play in a manner that minimalises our exploitability, though it might lessen our EV had we accentuated on the players mistakes.
Obviously we're not going to be playing one way all the time - we will mix a little bit of one and the other. It would be impossible to adapt a winning style that has no variables. You can't treat everyone entirely individually either.
What does this lingo mean in reality?
Within the last years the poker world has developed some fundamental basics that are universally applied by almost every player. Like opening a raise for about the pot size pre-flop. Or continuation betting somewhere between 1/2 and the whole pot. The reason we all do this is because, among other things, we want to stay as deceptive as possible, revealing as little information as we can. This is the optimal approach.
Using the same example as above - when our opponents are very unobservant and don't notice that we bet bigger pre-flop with strong hands than we do with our mediocre ones then we are using the exploitive approach.
As it's easy to guess which approach we pick relies heavily on our adversaries perception. We have to make an assessment pf what they know about our game, what they don't and what we know about theirs.
Here's a simple example.
Some time ago I was playing UltimateBet. The software of this pokerroom is extremely fast and it has a 'bet pot' button so, as most of you probably know, this results in some very aggressive plays and it's very common to see people mashing 'bet pot' on each street. Since this didn't really suit me (as it leads to playing enormous pots) I preferred to make more standard bets like continuation betting the pot for 3/4. This was my default, optimal line. However if I saw a player for the very first time this didn't necessarily have to be the case.
A new player joins the table. I don't know him, he doesn't know me. I fold a couple of hands and get AA. I raise pre-flop and get called by the unknown. I bet pot on the flop, pot on the turn and the river. Now normally that wouldn't be the case as I wouldn't deviate from my normal bet sizing, because it might be suspicious. However in this case I know that the player doesn't know my tendencies and I can 'blend in' with what seems typical for these games and as a result play in a way that's probably more +EV.
Another related example.
This one actually is a pretty common thinking fallacy I see among good and even very good players. Very often I see them making bluffs that are consistent with the way they would play a good hand. That's fine, but they're doing it against players that they have no history with.
X raises pf, unknown calls. Flop is rags. Unknown checks, X bets, unknown calls. Turn is an A. Check, check. River is an unrelated card. Unknown checks, X bets, unknown calls. X shows a bluff, unknown takes it down. X comments on the hand: 'Well, that's the way I would play an Ace'. The problem with this thinking is that his opponent had no idea of his usual tendencies/lines so he felt the river bet after the turn check was fishy. Against unknowns make your bluffs as 'straightforward' as possible. A concept that sounds basic, but you wouldn't believe how many people make this particular mistake.
When do we use exploitive lines?
We should always keep in mind what the players know about us. However, to be honest, even when up against people you have played for quite some time you'd be surprised with how much you can get away with. E.g. changing your continuation bet sizing - 2/3 without a hand, 4/5 with. It sounds extremely exploitable and I don't necessarily recommend doing it, but the point is these things take a long time to be noticed. A very observant person would have to see you get to showdown at least a couple of times with both bluffs and strong hands to realize what you're doing (otherwise he can only be guessing as he has no proof). Even assuming he's good it still takes quite a bit for him to see several of your showdowns with different holdings. Reasons for that are:
- usually after the flop is dealt a player sees the showdown less than a quarter of the time
- nowadays everyone multitables and very rarely observe hands they're not involved in
- even if they are involved in the hand they don't necessarily always check what their opponent mucked (some sites like Prima don't even give you the opportunity)
Therefore it's definitely worth experimenting with taking some exploitive lines from time to time. Even more so live, because:
- Very often you will encounter unusual pre-flop bet sizing, so it's easy to raise a bit bigger with strong hands and get away with it while not appearing suspicious(not always the case, but in some games it is)
- People don't pay enough attention to bet sizes in relation to the pot size. If you were to randomly ask even a very good live player during a hand what's the pot size he won't give you a close number, just a rough approximation. You don't have the numbers in front of you like online.
How do we take advantage of someone's exploitive lines?
It's complicated. To answer this question thoroughly one would need to write a seperate article. You have to use a mixture of different skills - observation, hand reading, logical analysis, image considerations etc. etc. But, to give you a better idea of what it usually looks like, here's an example:
Villain in this hand is a very solid player who we have been 3betting successfully a LOT recently, taking down the pots either pre-flop or on the flop with a continuation bet. Lets assume around 100bb effective stacks. Villain opens 3.5bb pre-flop, we 3bet on the BTN to 11bb with 87s. Folded to villain, who thinks for a bit and 4bets to 23bb. We have NEVER saw him 4bet us before and we have quite a bit of history with him. Now to many of you if you have a mediocre hand this will seem like an automatic fold, but lets look closer. Since we have been 3betting him a lot he has to believe we're doing so with a very wide range. Therefore he has to know that we usually don't have a good hand here and the majority the time fold to the 4bet. So we can decrease the possibility of him having AA or KK, because he would have most likely called with it and check-raised our continuation bet that we always make (maximizing his EV against our most likely range). What hands he COULD be doing this for value then? Hands that don't necessarily flop well like AQ,AK, QQ-TT would definitely want to 4bet, BUT with those type of hands he would probably more inclined to 4bet larger to avoid situations where we call, the flop is not very good for him and he's oop. Most players will definitely 4bet big with something like AQ,AK. That probably makes them a bit less likely in this example. Not impossible by any means, but not that likely. It is quite possible in this case that it is just a bluff with which he doesn't want to commit himself pre-flop, ergo the small 4bet. So you repush with a wide range.
There obviously will be times where we are wrong, but if the read seems correct most of the time this will be +EV, because winning nearly 35bb uncontested is just huge. Whether you agree with the analysis or not, the hand proves a point. Villain was frustrated with our constant aggression and decided to fire back using a exploitive line. He tried to exploit our tendencies, but his line was exploitable as well. Thanks to a little hand reading and analysis we correctly put him on a bluff and took advantage of that by pushing all-in.
In conclusion.
It's not really important that you know the definitions by heart. What matters is that you can properly identify situations where you can deviate from your standard game to your advantage and not allow your opponents to return the favor. By doing so you will increase your winnings and become a better player.
Paradigms:+ Show Spoiler +
by Tomsom
The Online Poker Revolution
Nobody can deny that in the last 5 years poker has evolved more than ever before in its 40 year-old history and has pushed the game to a point that did not seem possible before. The victory of Chris Moneymaker and the development of online cardrooms made it explode and grow exponentially in size. To get an idea of the scale you can compare the number of entrants to the WSOP Main Event. In 2003 there was 839 and in 2006 - 8,773. With increasing popularity, there are better tools made available for becoming a better poker player. You can easily discuss hands with friends via AIM/MSN, post on forums, use programs to calculate odds, watch instructional videos. Cardrunners were the pioneers of the online-poker teaching site and revolutionized the game for a lot of people with clearly outlined basic concepts about position and aggression. As these sources of knowledge expanded, you could definitely see a unified playing style conceptualize. A paradigm for the winning players.
The Model of the Winning Online Poker Player
The outstanding fundamental rules were:
- be very aggressive
- never limp
- isolate limpers
- be loose in position, tight out of position
These things constituted a style that was not only profitable and difficult to play against but also very hard to exploit. The style evolved and more specific rules were created and adhered to. Nowadays, almost every winning online poker player applies them to his game to at least some extent without question. Sometimes a player applies the rules and style before they fully understand the reasoning behind it which allows them to become good faster than they would through trial and error.
This online-revolution created some distinctive differences between the young internet stars and the oldschool live pros. If you watch shows like "High Stakes Poker" you might cringe at how players who are regarded by the public to be the best in the world aren't applying even the most fundamental rules that now seem absolutely standard in the online world. I, for one, felt almost angry that these people were considered the cream of the crop when they were obviously making horrendous mistakes. And while I still hold on to the idea that they're technically flawed and definitely worse than the online pros, they might have a certain advantage over some of the young internet poker players. They haven't been indoctrinated by this paradigm allowing for them to more easily...
Think Outside the Box
In my previous poker article Exploitive vs Optimal Approach I talked about 2 different approaches to the game - an optimal one and an exploitative one. The current paradigm of a winning online player is more optimal, while the technically inferior live players rely more on exploitation. Live players never learned the cardinal rules taught by instructional sites therefore they have to adapt to their opponents mainly through reads and observation. While they are technically inept they might make correct plays that an orthodox aggressive online would not make (e.g. folding KK pre-flop for 100bb against a specific opponent).
Players who subscribe to the paradigm often follow it blindly. This can be easily proved if you look at a topic on a poker forum where the question is about a big laydown. Very few people will encourage the idea of making a monster fold. Most will hate it because that's the way they have been taught to think and that's what their conception of proper poker is. Unfortunately this makes many discussions pretty shallow - not many think outside of the box. There are a lot of people are trapped inside the paradigm.
It is important to realize one of the most crucial aspects of poker is adaptation. They say 'never fold a set' or 'don't fold KK pre-flop' - don't be an idiot. No rule can be universally applied to every situation. You make money by playing your hands differently than the rest of the field so the more you generalize, the less your edge will be.
Once we accept that we can start seeing certain situations under a different light, options begin arising in spots which previously seemed automatic. A good example would be the min-raise - a play that was notoriously characteristic to be almost exclusively that of a fish. Now it's not all that uncommon to see players min-raising continuation bets in high stakes games. Another nice example of a play that in the past was almost always labeled to be that of a fish - open-limping the button heads up. Now it is successfully employed by players such as Durrrr and Cts.
There are no golden rules in poker. The answer to virtually any poker question is 'it depends' (as dreadful as that phrase might sound sometimes). Don't subscribe to the craze that says you should 'always' do something in poker - think for yourself. You may come to realize that open-limping might be more +EV than raising in specific scenarios and then go on to apply that; that you can limp behind instead of isolating with your suited connector. Maybe you can find a fold with bottom set on a rag flop - and perhaps it is possible to muck KK pre-flop.
Stay open-minded. Preflop Raising+ Show Spoiler +
by Vital Myth
Preflop Raising: Theoretical Approaches
Perspectives for Beginners
When raising before the flop, the obvious and immediate question is: how should we size our raise? There are three fundamental ideologies behind preflop raising, primarily founded in opacity, position, and hand strength arguments. If you have not explored these theories yourself, and especially if you are a newer player or somebody making the transition from fixed-limit to no-limit play, this article should prove useful. Overall, this article will be theoretical and explanatory, and is not meant to revolutionize the way anyone thinks about preflop raises. That said, here we will explain the three major arguments:
The Opacity Argument
All preflop raises should be sized identically relative to the pot. In essence, the pot odds offered to the next person to act are always exactly the same, except in the case that the next person to act cannot cover the amount of the raise. The most common implementations of this system are the “4BB + 1BB per limper” system and its cousins.
Usage of this system is extremely common in online play. You will find that the vast majority of players raise this way online, at any stakes and in any type of No-Limit Hold ‘Em cash game. In fact, the vast majority of people on this site employ this system. It is easy, and there does not exist any strong argument that it is bad, so it’s a preferable method.
The Positional Dependency Argument:
Preflop raises should be larger out of position and smaller in position. When out of position, it is particularly difficult to win a multi-way pot, and it is even tougher to play perfectly heads-up. In general, this system employs a shallow gradient, something like a 4-5 BB standard raise under-the-gun and a 3-4 BB standard raise on the button in a full-ring game, with 4 BB in the middle.
Effectively, this system allows for cheaper steals and easier pot control when one has the advantage of position, and maintains a raise size that fairs well when playing out of position. It is common that particularly loose-aggressive players who raise a wide range of hands preflop will employ this system, although many loose-aggressives use the opaque system described above.
The Hand Strength Argument
One should raise more with “big pot hands” and less with “small pot hands.” Because AA tends to play well in large pots, but AQ does not, one’s preflop raises with AA should be larger than with AQ. If a player hopes to play for stacks when flopping a set, he ought to raise large enough with his pocket pair preflop that it is easy to get somebody’s entire stack in postflop because of the bloated size of the pot.
In general, the raise-by-hand strength idea is accompanied by a critical randomization clause. It states that one must vary raise sizes with every hand to some degree, so that the strategy is not exploitable, just in case somebody at the table happens to be very clever and have a lot of history with you. So while AA should be raised larger than AQ on average, sometimes AQ should be raised higher-than-average and AA lower-than-average.
Strengths and Weaknesses
Opacity
The justification for this system is that it betrays zero information about one’s hole cards, or, in other words, it creates opacity (by eliminating transparency) in one’s preflop raises. It also may discourage people from taking particular note of your presence at the table, which helps in that your opponents play worse when they remember less information about you. If you were instead to have highly variable raise sizes, between 2 and 10 BB for instance, then people would likely notice that and start paying attention. When playing online, given that you sometimes have hundreds or even thousands of hands with the same players, and those players tend to be quite clever on average compared to those found in live games, this is probably the best system to use.
Positional Dependency
This system discourages action when out of position, and encourages it in position. Like the opacity system above, it also betrays zero information about one’s hole cards. However, the rate of decrease in a player’s raise sizes as position improves may reflect that player’s perception of his or her own skill differential playing in and out of position.
For instance, if a player typically raises to 10 BB under the gun, but only 2.5 BB on the button, he clearly feels much worse about being out of position than somebody who raises to 4 BB under the gun and 3 BB on the button. And this information can be exploited by the cleverest of players. Furthermore, this system works in contrary to a variable raising range across positions. That is, if you tend to raise a lot more hands on the button than under-the-gun (as you should), then you will encourage action with worse hands and discourage action with better hands. Why compel people to call your raise when your average hand is bad, and all you have to work with is position? And why dissuade people from calling your raise when your average hand is good, but you have to play it out of position?
Despite some weaknesses, this system is quite interesting and is probably a useful one if you are a very good, loose-aggressive player at a table full of particularly bad players who have no idea how to react to loose-aggressives. It allows you to steal more cheaply and exercise significant pot control when your opponents understand pot odds and implied odds, but find you hard to read.
Hand-Strength
This system does betray information about one’s hand and clearly allows opponents to play more perfectly in theory. However, it is a common system, used especially by live-game players, who rarely encounter the same opponents for large numbers of hands, and mostly play with extremely poor players anyway. In fact, it is highly recommended by David Sklansky and Ed Miller in No Limit Hold ‘Em: Theory and Practice.
When your opponents are not very knowledgeable and have played too few hands with you to catch on to your system, this particular method might be a good one. It is mainly useful because it gives you the ability to control the size of the pot very easily post-flop, where your opponents make the most mistakes. If you ever play in a typical live low-stakes no-limit game, you might find that this is an advantageous system to employ.
It is worth reiterating that this system is exploitable, and essentially forces you to adapt some strong “tells” in your betting pattern. So we may ask, what sort of place does it have? We have already established that it can only be used against bad, unobservant opponents. But we know that these types of opponents are also the ones who can generally be manipulated very easily postflop. If that’s the case, can’t we just wait until we’ve already seen a flop to worry about controlling the size of the pot? If our opponents don’t understand pot odds, then what good is raising more or less preflop when we can still make the same-sized bets postflop anyway?
The answer to these questions boils down to the fact that this system is most likely useless, except as a mechanism to “keep your opponents guessing.” Overall, you will most likely have little extra edge when using this system, and you could regain that edge by simply making small or large bets postflop, depending on your hand strength. What, Why, and How - Basic Game Approach
+ Show Spoiler +
What, Why and How - Basic Game Approach
by Steve Anderson
One thing I find myself discussing with a number of my poker friends is the need to view people and hands from a broader perspective. It is crucial not only view the opponent as an entire game plan, but also to view yourself as one. What are you and your opponents doing? More importantly, why? How can this be exploited? I find the “why” appears to be the most commonly missing ingredient with the majority of players. If you can figure out the “why” to a situation or portions a person's game plan, then you can attack it at its foundation. Unless they fill the holes you then put in their foundation, what happens? They crumble. They fall. And you are there to pick up the remaining pieces.
Before you start trying to punch holes into other people's foundations though, you should find your own. Do this by reducing the number of tables you are playing and pay attention to every move you make. Reason your way through it step by step. It may be pretty droll at first, but once you get used to doing it you can more readily analyze similar situations while playing more tables. Always be aware of what you are doing and why you are doing it. A big problem for a lot of people is that they play mechanically without considering all the things they are doing or consequences that could result of their actions.
As I noted earlier, the first thing you should think about is what you are doing. Look at your position at the table, the stack sizes around you, your cards, who has position on you, who is in the blinds, how is the table playing, the presence and position of short stacks, your bet size. These are the factors you should consider each and every time you play. Depending on the situation, some parts will become more important than the others. Each question you find yourself able to answer will allow you to more properly approach hands. Decide what you are going to do.
Now, the most important question, by far, is "why am I doing this?" Part of this is answered when you decide what you're going to do, but it goes beyond this as well. What you are doing involves mostly the tangibles, but “why” involves the intangibles. What image are you trying to present? To keep pressure on your opponents? To trap? For value? To influence the EV of future situations? Do you want to balance your range? Are you attempting to frustrate your opponent? Get into their head? These are all things you can think about both inside and outside of the game, as they mostly involve how you think about the game as well as your overall approach. The answers to all these questions will vary from table to table, but often the underlying approach is very similar. This is your game plan. This is what you are thinking and gives the “why”s to all your “what”s if completely figured out.
The next question is "How can this be exploited"? This is pretty easy. Raise too often, people play back at you. Raise not often enough, nobody gives you action. 3bet too often, get 4bet more. Bet too much, get no action and commit yourself with marginal holdings. Bet too little, get no value. Continuation bet too often, get played back at a lot. Too little, get played back at rarely. Thinking about what you're doing and how it can be exploited and meshing it with the “why”s will allow you to find the healthy medium between the “what”s so that you can best play a closer to optimal game.
There are a couple things that I think people often overlook when asking these three basic questions. The first is a ripple effect. A ripple effect is when you make a decision with a goal in mind but it ends up affecting other areas, be it for the positive or negative. You must always ask yourself when you make a decision "What am I trying to accomplish with this?" and then ask yourself what else it also accomplishes. A perfect example is raising over a bet in order to price out draws on a draw heavy board. Yes, you accomplish pricing out the draws. The issue comes with the fact that, unless you have reasonable expectation to be ahead after they call your raise, or you rate to be ahead of their shoving range, you have now effectively turned your hand into a bluff. You are unnecessarily bloating the pot in an attempt to get somebody to fold a hand that you are already beating. You have now forced yourself into a spot where the bets are bigger, while still giving reasonable odds and having a significant portion of your stack invested. You had one goal, but accomplished something completely different. Playing these spots by taking the perspective of how they are going to be playing the different parts of their range is more optimal than trying to protect your hand against a specific portion of their range. Seeing a turn while keeping the pot small takes the “oomph” out of a lot of drawing hands and will give you a better idea of what they think about their spot.
This is also where trying to dissect what your opponents are doing becomes important. Once you start thinking about what you're doing and why you're doing it, start incorporating those same questions into what your opponent is doing. Whenever you see somebody make an action, ask the same questions you ask yourself. The more completely you can define these thought processes, the better you can answer the third question, “how can I exploit this?”
I have two good examples of this. There are two regulars in my games with similar stats. One has 22/18/3 with a 45 attempted to steal, the other is 22/18/3 with 28 attempted to steal. The attempted to steal stat tells us all kinds of things about how these players think and play and how we can exploit it. The first player is very tight in early position and raises nearly every button and most cut offs. This player we can destroy by simply 3betting nearly every time he opens in late position but staying away and do more trapping when he is in early position. His range is slanted to a very specific, exploitable, position-oriented game that makes him extremely transparent in most situations. The second player is much looser in early position and plays roughly the same hands in late position. His range as a whole is likely fairly balanced but it doesn't take into account position very well and doesn't vary much from spot to spot. Against this player, you can do the exact opposite. Since his ranges are very similar in most positions, you can 3bet him relentlessly while in position and less so when out of position. Being in position will give you more control over the hand postflop as well as a significant number of folds preflop. These are just very basic insights into their games by seeing what their stats are and how often they are raising in late position, along with ideas about how you can adjust to best exploit these thought processes. You take their game plan and you damage it at its base.
The second thing that I think most people overlook is a game plan - approaching your game as a whole. Your play must be able to tell a believable story. Not just throughout singular hands, but from hand to hand, session to session. You must show consistency and believability. You must make an identity and a poker mind. You must view the game as an entire entity and play as you can best understand that entity. It's not merely "raise this hand because it's strong"; it should be "raise this hand because I raise strong hands here.” And beyond that. What's important in the game? How can you best take advantage of how the game plays and operates? Don't just dissect yourself and the players, dissect the game. Position, bet sizing, planning, strategy, mind games, hand selection, hand reading. What, why, and how? Once you begin to better understand the dynamics of the game itself, what is important, and how to best use that, you can really begin to exploit your opponents. You can exploit why people are doing things because you are able to play beyond the dynamics of the game. You understand the what, why and how of you, them, and the game you're playing. That is complete game approach.
I think a powerful approach to the game is by far the most important aspect of poker. The intangibles. The decisions you make that effect your other decisions in the game. Balance, consistency, reasoning, understanding. Interconnecting everything into a powerful, complete poker mind. Think about the game and never stop thinking.
I know this article may seem pretty basic but I figured it would be good for a start. If there is anything in particular you would like me to talk about just leave a message in the comments and I'll do my best. Old CardRunners+ Show Spoiler +
Advantages of Playing Within Your Bankroll + Show Spoiler +
When I first met Taylor half a year ago, I was a winning 3/6 NL player, but I was very inconsistent at 5/10 NL. I'd try to win a thousand a day and cash it out, and I would only leave a few thousand in my poker account to play. When I was running well this was great. I'd make a thousand and spend my cash on whatever I wanted. However, when things turned bad, I would lose all the money in my account. This put a lot of pressure on me and affected my mood to the point where I couldn't concentrate on school.
Taylor then introduced the concept of a keeping a large bankroll to me. I'd like to share this knowledge with you. His general rule is to have 20-25 buyins for the stakes you are playing. It has helped me see the actual amount I'm making a week, and has helped tremendously with my mood when I take swings. Since then, I've taken poker more as a game instead of making money. It has helped me play much better and not chase losses. It helps me see the long-term side of poker. Since then, I've noticed how tilting kills your bankroll and have avoided tilting. If I'm aware that I'm on tilt, I either force myself start playing my A game again or I just leave the game.
With an adequate bankroll in my account, I've realized that I play poker to play well, instead of to win money. This helps me focus on my mistakes and think about other ways to play my hand. As a result, I actually win more money and get better at the game. When I'm not thinking about the money, I play much a better game.
I've always believed that in order to improve at a game, you can't just practice a lot, you have to practice right. Having a bankroll was a vital step in my path to get me to where I am today. Why play $20 sngs, cash out your winnings each time and spend it all? Invest it in yourself. Keep the money to build a bankroll and rise up to bigger games. Give your potential a chance.
by Filthy
Building a Bankroll+ Show Spoiler +
Building a Bankroll? Tips to live by from a high stakes pro. .. by Taylor Caby
Over the past few years, many people have asked me how I built a bankroll when I was first starting out playng poker online. Most people understand that to be successful in poker, you need to play within your bankroll and practice good game selection. But many people struggle with building that initial bankroll for the limit that they feel is worth their time playing. I'm going to explain to you my tips for building a bankroll, including why I believe you should withdraw regularly even though you are trying to increase the stakes you play.
Before you even start playing online, you should develop a general understanding for keys to success. There is a vast array of good poker literature on the internet, as well hundreds of books available for purchase. I would recommend going to your local library and reading the poker books there first. After you have learned the basics, I would strongly recommend subscribing to one or more of the online poker training sites. All of these services aren't cheap, but if you ask around, you will find that there are thousands of happy subscribers who are glad they invested their time and money on poker training. Without a fundamental understanding of how to win at poker, chances of success are slim.
I recommend that the beginning player, no matter how financially secure, start playing poker at the some of the smallest levels on the internet. You probably won't learn any faster by playing against tougher players at the higher levels, even though you may be able to afford it. Yes, it is frustrating to deal with players who have no clue what they are doing and put some vicious bad beats on you, but you probably are very inexperienced as well (even if you don't think you are) and would be well served to start out against competition that isn't extremely talented. I started by playing at the $5 and $10 sit n goes, so believe me I know what it is like, and I think most players should start at these levels as well. Focus on playing strategically solid poker, and don't concern yourself too much with short term results. Your opponents will be making many mistakes, so you simply need to play solid poker to beat these games.
Although your ultimate goal is to increase your bankroll and play higher stakes poker, you should be careful about trying to move up too fast. As any up and coming player knows, poker is a game of highs and lows. There are times when you will make every draw in site, flop sets like they aren't 7.5=1 dogs, and maintain impeccable timing on your bluffs. Well believe me, the opposite is also true. Every player will go through downswings, and they can be absolutely brutal. What is my point here? If you jump up to the next level, even though you are adequately bankrolled, you still cannot be sure that you are ready to move up. It is quite possible that you were on a hot streak when you built the portion of your bankroll required to move up. People also don't realize that the psychological effect of losing in a bigger game can be devastating. For example, let's say you have built your bankroll at $20 sit n goes. You now have a bankroll of almost $1500, and you feel you are ready to move to the $50 games. Because there is a lot of variance in any poker game, you agree to play at least 20 games before you reevaluate your standing. It is quite possible, that even though you are a winning player, you may only cash in 2 or 3 of these games, and could find your bankroll back around $1000. At this time, you correctly decide to step back down and shore up your game at the $20 level. However, psychologically it is tough to deal with the fact that you just lost 1/3 of your bankroll, and at the lower level it may take weeks or even months to get back to where you were a mere 20 matches ago. This can have a domino effect on the way you play, and you may develop bad habits and regress as a player.
You might be thinking, this makes sense, but how can I avoid this inevitable nuiance of climbing up the poker ranks? You can't totally avoid it, but my recommendation is to practice good "cash out" habits. Even though you are constantly working towards building a bankroll for the higher stakes games, you might consider taking out a certain percentage of your bankroll each week. If, based on your ROI or BB/100 (your winrate), you calculate that you on average, you expect to make $150/week playing poker, you might consider cashing out $50 a week, no matter how you actually perform. I can't emphasize how important it was to me that I did this as I was growing as a player. After I had made my first few thousand playing poker, because I withdrew some money each week, I knew that no matter what I had seen the fruits of my labor. Even on bad downswings, I knew that I had money in the bank from poker and I was "playing with profit." You might even take it one step further and decide to reward yourself with something a few times a year, regardless of how well you are running. When you are frustrated that some idiot hit a 2 outer againt you, the new Xbox game that poker paid for might make you remember that there is a reason you put yourself through this stress.
Another benefit of consistently withdrawing money from your account is that although it will take you longer to reach your desired stakes of play, you will be a better player when you get there. You will need to put in thousands of hands more to get to reach your goals, but the increased winrate you will achieve when you arrive will more than make up for it. It probably won't take you long, assuming you can beat the higher stakes games sooner than if you had never withdrawn, to earn much more than you would have by never cashing out money.
Although I haven't played in the smaller games on the internet in quite sometime, I assure you I know what it is like to build a bankroll. I hope you will take my words of advice into consideration, and maybe one day I will see you at the biggest cash games on the internet.
Bankroll Management+ Show Spoiler +
Bankroll management is one of the most underrated keys to success for any professional poker player. However talented you are, if you don't manage yourself properly, you're going broke somewhere down the line. Granted, gambling may get you some short term success but even so, success this way is going to create bad habits, which will come back to bite you one day. In this article, I aim to outline the non-poker aspects of the job which I think are vital.
First of all, the basics. I think a minimum of 25 buy ins behind, for cash game play, is essential. This isn't something you should follow loosely either. It is extremely important to be disciplined and force yourself to move down when necessary. Moving down has been the hardest thing for me, but always pays off in the end. There is nothing more demoralising than dropping down and losing a few buy ins straight away, but you must curb your temptation to try and recoup your loses at the higher stakes that you 'know' you can beat. This, controversially, works both ways however. I think it is almost equally important to move up a level when you have around 60-70 buy ins. With too much money at one level poker can become monotonous, the excitement can fade and the sense of progress, which is so vital in poker, disappears. Yes, you may feel uncomfortable at higher levels, but that's a good thing surely? You have to want to push and challenge yourself to be successful and get the most enjoyment out of the game.
Its all to do with making a proper allowance for variance. For example, if you are an average player playing 4-6, 6 max tables you can expect daily swings of around 5 buy ins, losing weeks and even the odd losing month - this is the level of variance that your bankroll strategy has to cater for. If you play with less than 25 buy ins the risk of going broke is too great and you will have no sense of stability or continuity. You will fluctuate between levels too frequently, stopping yourself from getting a good feel for the player pool or dynamics at a given level. Your style of play can affect the amount of variance you are likely to experience. A TAG player is, on average, going to experience less variance than a LAG player. In terms of bankroll strategy this means TAG players are safer to stick to the minimum requirements for levelling up whereas a LAG player might want to be more cautious. Big multi-tablers may want to be more cautious when levelling up as well. Either stick to 4 or less tables until you have over 35 buy ins behind or play a combination of levels at once. A new level means new players and a slightly new style of play, this takes time to adapt to so going in gung ho with 6-12 tables with only 25 buy ins left over could cause a big shock to your bottom line. More tables doesn't mean more variance but a new level is rarely going to be easy straight away, whether it's a level up or a level down to stakes you've not played at for a while.
Something which very few players practice properly, is cashing out regularly. The system which I use, and believe in, is to cash out a buy in every day of profit. For example, say you were playing 200nl, any day you profit more than 200, even if its 201, you take out 200. Its important to do this on the day as well. If you have a nice profit day and don't cash out, the next day could be a losing day and, in that case, it is so easy to 'forget' about the previous days profits not to damage your sacred bottom line. There are a couple of reasons why cashing out is important. Firstly, if your doing well, you need to treat yourself away from poker, having plenty of money is nice and will help you through the inevitable bad runs. Also, if these bad runs get on top of you, which is especially apparent for those early in their career, it is likely you will go bust a few times. Having cashed out regularly you should be able to get back up ok and never have to borrow money.
Going bust is the biggest test of your discipline and management skills. Obviously, in going bust, you've probably broken your bankroll rules anyway, so the temptation to continue on the same vein "just until you get back to x" is going to be great. The first thing you have to do is to take a break, not a long one, just a week or so. This will, hopefully, put you in a better mind state and give you time to really understand what you did wrong. Then you have to drop down to a game which, one, you can afford, and, two, is lower than your last regular game. Although, through cashing out, you should have some money saved you don't want to pump this all back in. For a 100 or 200nl regular, I'ld recommend dropping down to 50nl for around 2 weeks or so. You have to stay at your chosen level for a reasonable amount of time to regain a sense of continuity and stability. Then just fall back into your routine, 25 buy ins minimum, don't think about where you used to be, concentrate on winning at your current level, not getting back to your old game, the subtle difference in mentality is important.
It is vital for anyone reading this to understand that the most important, overriding aspect in all of this is discipline. It is all well and good to follow these rules when your running good but when you can't win a race and are getting coolered every big hand you make you need to really show your strong will and self control to keep to your rules and level down.
A few more simple points which I think may also help :
-Have a stop loss of around 5 buy ins when your running bad and around 7-8 when things are going better. (by stop loss I mean when you've lost this amount you stop for the rest of the day)
-For sngs and mtts I recommend having around 40-50 buy ins however for those playing many tournaments everyday the swings are so great that something closer to 100 buy ins is wise if you are playing a high volume.
-Use Poker Tracker, as in, actually USE IT! At very least try and review all your biggest losing hands of your session and look for leaks.
-Make sure you're not loosening up when you're running bad, if anything tighten up. Poker Tracker is also good for this.
-Keep learning. Watch lots of videos and keep looking for new books to read. Try and implement new things into your game and make a concerted effort to correct your mistakes.
-Don't play above your limits in live games. Yes, the games may seem very beatable and you might have had a few drinks but don't go any higher than one level above your regular online game.
Hope this helps all you budding professionals as it is helping me, any comments or observations will be much appreciated. Bankroll/Profits/Limits+ Show Spoiler +
The idea of playing within your bankroll has been hashed over a million times, so I'll spare you from doing that again here. If you need advice on how large your roll should be in relation to the limits you're playing at, check out this article on P5's - http://www.pocketfives.com/5C57520F-8A89-43F3-97E6-54D240CB3E59.aspx
Also, Andrew has an excellent article on the benefit of dropping limits here -
http://www.cardrunners.com/cms/index.cfm?ParentItemIDList=84140&ItemID=93307
Both are solid reads and should give you some perspective that I may skip over here.
What I want to discuss is how the limits you play, your roll and your profit are connected, and how you can use those relationships to determine the limits at which you should be playing, the size of your roll, the profit that you make, and how you can use those relationships to grow all three safely.
The first thing you should determine is that you're playing within your bankroll. See the above articles and make sure you're playing at levels close to those guidelines. For our purposes, let's say that you have a bankroll of $200 and you play mostly NL cash games, but you want to play SNGs from time to time and an occasional MTT. You've decided that 20x the number of buy-ins is enough for cash, so your NL limit is $.05-.10.
Current Bankroll: $200
Cash in Hand: $200
Profit: $0
Limits: .05-.10 cent (NL ring game)
From this point forward, your cash in hand and your bankroll are rarely going to be the same number. Your bankroll is going to remain static until you meet the requirements that you lay out for yourself as prerequisites for moving up a limit. You want to be consistently outplaying the players at a given limit before you move up a limit. This is a critical thing to keep in mind. It's easy to get in a cycle of riding huge fluctuations in your bankroll if you simply let the amount of cash you have in hand dictate the limits at which you play. Eventually, you're going to lose patience when you're forced to drop limits after losing when playing above your comfort zone, you'll play too big for your diminished bankroll, and you're likely to get busted. Separate your cash in hand from your bankroll in your mind - your bankroll is going to be a set dollar amount based upon the limits you're playing.
Ok, your bankroll is $200. You play for a while, and since you've been watching cardrunners videos and reading the message boards, you have started to do very well at $.05-.10. Once you're winning consistently, your first goal should be to double your cash in hand.
Current Bankroll: $200
Cash in Hand: $400
Profit: $0
Limits: .05-.10 cent (NL ring game)
Now that your cash in hand has doubled, there's going to be temptation to play at the next limit. Don't be so hasty. You've proven yourself at this level to a certain extent, but a hot session or two can put a lot of money in your account without really proving that you can do it all the time. A better idea is to yank some profit at this point, but continue to play with the same bankroll, which dictates playing the same limits. I think 2/3 to � of what you've gained is a nice percentage. If you're way out of the league of the players you're currently playing with, maybe you could pull just �.
Current Bankroll: $200
Cash in Hand: $300
Profit: $100
Limits: .05-.10 cent (NL ring game)
Ok, at this point, do the same thing again. Work on gaining double of what your bankroll is. Here's what you should be shooting for.
Current Bankroll: $200
Cash in Hand: $500
Profit: $100
Limits: .05-.10 cent (NL ring game)
Now, pull your % again. Do another $100. If you spike a big tournament win or have a gigantic day and blow past your current goal, I seriously recommend yanking the extra cash. I feel that you should never let a big tournament win lead to an increase in stakes. Tournaments are completely unrelated to cash games. I believe if you are a cash game player and you make a nice score in a tournament you should take out almost 100% of your newly gained profits. Staying dedicated to your game plan when things are going well is going to make it easier to stick to it when things aren't as bright. Having these fixed rules about your bankroll will keep you in line when your head isn't on straight, which is an inevitable event.
Current Bankroll: $200
Cash in Hand: $400
Profit: $200
Limits: .05-.10 cent (NL ring game)
Remember to set aside a good portion of your profit for taxes. If you set aside half, you should always come out ahead. Since the next jump in limits here is 2.5x (.10-.25), play smart and go through two more iterations of doubling your bankroll.
Current Bankroll: $200
Cash in Hand: $500 (up to 600 from 400 then subtract our $100 in profit)
Profit: $300
Limits: .05-.10 cent (NL ring game)
then-
Current Bankroll: $200
Cash in Hand: $600
Profit: $400
Limits: .05-.10 cent (NL ring game)
Ok, at this point look at where you are. You've pulled out $400 that no longer has anything to do with poker. Pulling profit feels a lot better when you don't feel like you're impeding your progress by doing it. You've gotten to a point where you're consistently outplaying the competition at .05-.10, you've pulled out some money as a reward for your patience, and you've built your cash in hand to a point where you can feel confident moving up in stakes. You're ready to try the next limit.
Current Bankroll: $500
Cash in Hand: $600
Profit: $400
Limits: .10-.25 cent (NL ring game)
You now have $600 in our account and you now have an extra $100 on top of what you decided you needed to play the next limit (.10-.25). This extra money (and you'd really prefer more than 1/5 of your bankroll, but jumping from .05-.10 to .10-.25 takes longer than other jumps - if you?re not feeling edgy to jump at this point, more buffer is better) is vital when starting a new limit. The players are going to be better, you're not going to be used to the feel of betting more and you'll need some time to get notes/information on the new players. Having a buffer on top of your new $500 bankroll leaves you some room to get used to playing at the new limit without feeling pressure to dominate right away.
If you struggle at your new limit and drop down to your original bankroll, go through the process again. You can tweak the percentages towards building cash in hand more quickly the second time around, but you have to be sure to pull profit as you go along. If you're putting in the hours and you eventually figure out that you've reached the current apex of where you can play profitably, you're going to want something to show for it.
You're going to end up fine tuning the percentages that you're playing and that's completely fine as long as you have a clear cut delineation in your mind between your bankroll and your cash in hand. Also, remember, your bankroll is dictated by the limits that you can play profitably, rather than your limits being dictated by the amount of cash in your account. Lastly, pull your profit! That money will mean more to you in your hands than as numbers on a computer screen. Good luck - see you at the tables! Setting Clear Goals+ Show Spoiler +
Setting Clear Goals
Many people go through their poker career aimlessly with no clear direction in mind. Others may have a vague idea of what they want to accomplish or have indistinct goals, but they also don?t have a set path to follow. I believe that these players are making a crucial mistake by not understanding exactly what they want to achieve in regards to poker. I find that when players set out exact goals to be completed within a set timeframe, they tend to be more successful poker players for several reasons. First, they analyze their play more. Next, it?s easier to follow proper bankroll management. Finally, they are held accountable to themselves and possibly others that are aware of their goals.
I will begin by discussing what I mean by clear goals. I believe that a player should set a monetary goal to be accomplished by a certain date. The player should determine a way to hold himself responsible to these goals as well. One way to do this is to align the goal deadline with moving up in a limit or making a purchase with winnings. This creates a clear direction and identifies a path that will need to be followed in order to accomplish the goals. Another good step is to inform others of the goal. One way to do that is to blog about your quest.
I feel that setting clear goals forces a player to analyze their game more. When players set a goal that is a reachable but difficult goal, they know that they must play solid poker if they are going to achieve their goal. They also must avoid excess bad sessions. Players are forced to take a closer look at their play in order to maintain solid play. It also gives incentives for looking at hand histories from hands that were lost and deciding if there was a better way to play the hand.
I believe that goals also help greatly with bankroll management. A player is much less likely to take a shot or incorrectly move up limits if they have a set plan that they are following. It tends to be the players without a laid out plan that are playing limits that they should not be playing. Also, often times the completion of any goals is directly related to moving up in stakes. It would negate the goal itself if the player was to move up when playing poorly. I feel that if the goal means anything at all to the player, it will help keep that player at the limits he or she should be at.
Finally, goals hold players accountable. Players with goals in mind are less likely to have sessions where they go on monkey tilt and blow a large portion of their roll. This is because they know that it will destroy their chances of reaching their goal and it will also make them look bad in the eyes of anyone else aware of their goal. I believe this to be an extremely important aspect to the idea of setting goals. Poker is a game where the view of money is skewed. Players often develop apathy towards money, because it is typically beneficial in becoming a successful poker player. However, the opposite can be true when things start to turn bad. Players often loose their judgment when they run bad and that can create an irresponsible attitude towards the money in their bankroll. I feel that goals try to bring a bit of the value of money back. This helps keep things in perspective.
This month I set a goal for myself to make a set amount by the end of the month. It was a very interesting experience that forced me to learn a lot. I believe it greatly helped me with tilt control and not playing when I don?t feel I will play my best game. Those are two major leaks I?ve always had. To improve even slightly will surely make a large difference in the long run. Furthermore, I was able to have a great month monetarily. It appears that I likely won?t reach my goal, but that is okay. I knew when I started I might not be able to accomplish it. I feel that accomplishing your goal is an added bonus if you can achieve the things listed above.
Muddy Water Game Selection+ Show Spoiler +
Game Selection - Strategy Article
I once read a phrase in a poker book:-
?If you were the 6th best poker player in the world, you?d be pretty pleased. Until, you sit at a table with the top 5 players?
Online, there are an abundance of sites, and tables per stake, that you can play at and sit at. So why pick the first table that has an empty seat? That?s lazy, and lazy doesn?t get you the money!
I?d estimate that good game selection can double a player?s winrate. That sounds a lot ? but I?d also estimate that 70% at least of my profit comes from fish! If you are on a table with no fish then it follows you have less chance of winning!
So how do you find a good table? Here is my advice.
When I log onto Full Tilt, I get PokerTracker and Poker Ace Hud running immediately. I then scan the tables at my limit, and load up all those that have the majority of players with decent sized stacks at them. This is vital because playing against short stacks destroys the implied odds of hands like pocket pairs and suited connectors, and negates the effect of a LAG or semi LAG style. It also follows that if you consider yourself a winning player, you?d want to sit on a table where there?s more money to win. Thereby, making more of your edge.
I?ll then wait for a couple of minutes for HUD to pick up the tables. Once this is done, I?ll scan each individual table.
I?ll basically ditch any table with an average VPIP of <30%. This would be a tight table generally. One exception to this rule would be if there was one fish on there ? I mean a massive donator ? with like 2x buyin or more, and there was a seat available on his direct left or two to his left. I?d probably take that seat.
After doing all these processes, I?ll have a shortlist of tables to choose which ones I will play. The next step is to analyse which is the juiciest?Here I?m looking for players who are loose/passive ? I?m talking VPIP of >40% with a PFR of <10% - with decent money in front of them. I wouldn?t really tend to avoid a particular regular, but if there are a couple of decent regulars with a fish I may give the table a miss possibly.
After all this, you should be able to compact all the available tables into a group which will be the tables you are going to play at.
If there is a waiting list for a table ? join it. Be patient! Don?t be tempted to give up waiting on a table and join a worse one.
When I choose a particular seat on a table, I don?t really want any loose players on my direct left. Basically they are going to be floating you without knowing it, meaning you are playing pots out of position which is obviously not ideal or conducive to winning poker.
You want these loose players to your right ? Where you have position on them and you can make them pay for playing pots out of position with substandard hands and suboptimal decision making.
If I was offered a seat on a juicy table with a 60/5 with 1.5x buyin who would be on my direct left, I?d probably turn it down and wait for a better seat. Unless the table was full of players like that, in which case I?d have to take it! But generally, I?d reject the seat and wait to get position on my target(s).
It?s also important to realise when a table has gone bad, and that it?s time to find another one. If table VPIP has gone below 30%, that?s often a pretty good sign. Other factors may be if your main fish leaves the table, meaning you are left with tight regulars. Just walk away and find somewhere better to play!
I?ve been in situations before where there?s been a big fish on a table, and 3 or 4 pretty solid players. I?ve then stacked the fish almost immediately, and he has left the table. As soon as that big blind hits me, I am gone too! It?s not expected of you to stay at the table after you?ve won a big pot. Poker is a ruthless game, and you have to take the decisions which will benefit you the most.
And that is my guide to game selection. As I mentioned earlier, good game selection can really boost your winrate. If you don?t practice it, you really are throwing $ away!
-Fruitypro Self Control at the Tables+ Show Spoiler +
Over the past few years I have been an active member on numerous poker forums and I'm amazed at how often I see posts from people asking for help because they've lost their bankrolls. They cite all kinds of reasons and many don't have the necessary poker skills, but most of these players simply lack self-control at the tables.
Lack of self-control can mean tilting, playing in an unfocused state of mind, playing outside of your bankroll or just being apathetic at the tables. I myself used to tilt in a very odd way. I wouldn't get mad or angry, but I would become somewhat numb and not care about the money. Sometimes it would be brought on by boredom, other times by bad beats or simply a bad day in general.
Early in my poker years I went bust a number of times before realizing that I needed to do something about it. I had read every book, watched every video and played numerous hours of winning poker. I knew that I COULD play well, but I didn't all of the time. The problem was that the profits I would make in ten hours of solid play could easily be lost in ten minutes of poor play.
I began reviewing my records and discovered that most of my big loosing sessions weren't brought on by a bad beat that led to tilt. Instead, I would usually experience a slow decline in my focus as I played a session which would eventually result in poor decisions that started out small, but became more and more costly as time went by.
There were many reasons for losing focus during sessions. I would watch television, talk on the phone, chat on instant messenger, surf the web, eat, and any number of other things all while multi-tabling at my chosen poker site. All these diversions kept me from getting bored, while I grinded away at the tables and I didn't think it affected my game. After all, I won 90% of the time. The problem was that eventually all of these distractions led to poor decisions and those few losing sessions that would wreck havoc on my bankroll.
To help regain self-control at the tables I drew up a list of rules and rituals for myself and promised to follow them for one month. At the end of the month, I was amazed at how well they had prevented me from losing focus and having those tilty sessions. As an added bonus, they also helped me to improve my BB/100 over the long term.
So what did I do? I created a binder. Before each and every session I would open the binder and read the first page that had a series of 10 questions for me to answer before playing. These 10 questions were key to increasing my profitable sessions at the tables. The questions are:
1. Are you rested?
Playing tired is an easy way to lose focus and make poor decisions at the table. Never play tired.
2. Have you set a session length?
I would often sit at the computer and just play for hours on end, eventually leading to a lack of focus. By setting a predetermined session length I forced myself to take a break after a period of time. Eventually I found that for me sessions of thirty to forty minutes worked best.
What if I'm in a juicy game when my session is up? STOP. I'ld rather stop while in control than take a chance at jeopardizing a chunk of my bankroll. Besides, after a ten or fifteen minute break the table will probably still be going and I can rejoin with a renewed focus.
3. Will you be free from distraction?
This is a big one. Turn off the television, instant messenger, phone, etc. I even ask my wife to not interrupt during my poker sessions. The key for me to play my A game is to have no distractions whatsoever.
But what if you get bored? Well, then you shouldn't be playing. Get interested in the game. Study opponents, make reads even when you're not in a hand, find leaks in your game. All of this focus will pay off in dividends. And remember, with shorter session lengths you won't become bored as easily.
4. Are you prepared to keep records?
I log every session, the date, length, buy-in, game type, miscellaneous session notes, starting balance and ending balance. When you get to see your long-term results on paper you can identify trends. For example, I noticed that over time sessions of 30 to 45 minutes were the most profitable for me. Now I plan all of my sessions for no longer than 45 minutes without a break.
5. Are you prepared to record key hands and review your session?
This was key to improving my game. Prior to each session I open up Notepad or Word and as key winning and loosing hands come up I save them. Following the session I review the hands to identify leaks in my game.
6. Do you have your charts handy?
When I play I like to have a default strategy - a style of play and hand ranges that work well for me against unknown players. To help keep me in line with that 'ideal' range I created a chart for pre-flop hand selection that I keep in my binder. I have it handy when I play to help keep me from loosening up too much. If I know my opponents I will sometimes deviate from my chart, but only when it is a conscious choice and not out of boredom. I also like to keep odds charts and other info in my binder. I may not refer to it often, but when I need it I have it right at my fingertips.
7. Do you have Poker Tracker and PAHUD set to run?
If you truly want to maximize your time at the tables you should be using both of these programs. Take the time to get them up and running, even if you are just sitting down for a quick ten minute session. They may help you make decisions that could result in considerable money won or saved.
8. Do you promise to play within your bankroll?
Playing outside of your bankroll is a sure way to go broke. It may not happen today, tomorrow, this month or this year, but if you do not practice proper bankroll management you will eventually go broke.
9. Have you determined a stop loss?
Some people feel that if you are in a good game where you are a better player than your opponents you should keep playing even if you're losing. Their rationale is that in the long run you'll outplay them and profit. However, you have to realize that if you're losing, you will not be able to play your A game. Even Phil Ivey agrees with me on this one. He has said that no player, regardless of how good they are, will ever play as good when they're losing as when they're winning. Set a predetermined number of buy-ins that you're prepared to lose and if you lose them, STOP. Do not try to recoup your losses. Take a break and wait for another session.
10. Do you promise to play your A game?
Have you ever felt like you were playing okay, but not your best? If so, why play? Promise to always play your A game or not at all and if you find yourself slipping be sure to stop. Not in 5 minutes or when the blinds come around to you, but immediately. Whether it is because you're tilting, you're hungry, the kids won't stop yelling, or any other reason that you're not playing your A game - STOP.
Are these questions/rules too restrictive? Sure, they can be, however if you are the kind of player who lacks self-control at the tables they are exactly what you need. I have read these rules over thousands of times and continue to do so prior to each session. They remind me of important things to do at the table and put me into a good frame of mind.
I know that there are sessions where I could have won more by sticking around longer, but I'm okay with that. I also know that I have given up on money from time to time when playing my B game would have been okay because my opponents were playing their C game, but I'm still happy I left the table. My point is that while I may have given up smaller profits here and there, I have maximized the time I do spend at the tables and most importantly, I have not gone broke or lost a significant amount of my bankroll since incorporating this pre-game ritual into my sessions.
In addition to these questions/rules I also set up a list of rules for myself when at the tables (see my article "Playing By The Rules" . Some of them are very general, some very specific, but all serve a purpose. They are in my binder and I review them on a regular basis to remind me of things I think are key rules to follow at the table.
I think of my binder as my Poker Bible. If I come across important information, key hand histories or even inspirational quotes, I add them to the binder. It is a resource for improving my game and keeping my focus in check.
I realize that this structured approach to playing poker isn't for everyone, but if you?re a player who lacks self-control at the tables you should give it a shot. Just make that first promise to follow these rules for a month and then evaluate the results. My hope is that you'll find them as successful as I did and you'll never have to make another forum post about going broke.
Good luck at the tables.
Jason Billows
a.k.a. CasaJJ
"No guts, no glory" No brains, no bankroll!! Disciplined Poker+ Show Spoiler +
Over the past few years, many online poker players have enjoyed the luxury of playing poker for fun while making money at the same time. However, with the ever changing landscape of online poker, it's becoming increasingly difficult to win without taking a disciplined approach to the game. Many players do not employ all available options to improve their chances of winning. With the makeup of the games today, one must use every advantage possible to realize and maximize wins. Some may seem obvious, but they are often taken for granted. This article is meant to be a reminder for those that have become lazy and for those that have not done everything possible to gain an edge.
The most obvious advantage one can gain is playing in a favorable environment. This is fairly easy for new players. These players are uncomfortable multi-tabling and typically enthralled by the new experience of online poker. On the other hand, players who have been grinding online games for a prolonged period of time may find it more difficult. Veteran players often get bored with the endless hours at the tables and therefore do not fully concentrate. It is essential to eliminate anything that can be a distraction while playing. Some common distractions are browsing the internet, talking on an instant messenger service or watching TV. If a person is not completely focusing on their games, valuable information will be missed. When one is playing poker to make money, they should treat the game like a job. Poker won't always be the most enjoyable thing you could be doing, but it's probably the most profitable.
Two other beneficial additions to one's playing experience are PokerTracker and a display such as PAHud or Gametime+. Players can easily get lazy and stop referring to their PokerTracker or loading up their PAHud before a session. There is no reason to not use these every session you play. It's impossible to keep track of all your opponents. Any added information on an opponent will help you chances of winning. In addition, PokerTracker provides an unparalleled tool to allow one to analyze their game. Poker players are infamous for thinking they are bigger winners than they are. PokerTracker keeps one honest about their results. The win rates that were attainable in the past are not as reasonable any more. Everyone must come to the realization that games have gotten harder and they must adjust accordingly.
Every serious player should review important hands after every session. Doing this is one of the best ways to improve as a player. It is inevitable that you will have difficult and defining hands every session you play. It's impossible to always play every hand correctly and there is often more than one way to play a hand. Taking 10-15 minutes to review your hands will help your game immensely. Furthermore, it's very beneficial to get the input of respected peers and to post hands on message boards. The more diverse perspectives you can get, the more your understanding of the game will grow.
These are all things that every good player knows. It is just too easy to get out of the habit of actually performing all these tasks. There are up and coming players that are likely playing more than you while taking the game more seriously. These players can gain up lost time fast and obtain an edge. As long as you are playing the game for money and not solely for fun, you should do everything in your power to maintain your advantage. Be honest with yourself and take a look at your game. Make sure you are completing every requirement to ensure your dominance.
MuddyWater Leave Your Ego & Emotions at home+ Show Spoiler +
Lately, I have had several successful MTT players tell me that no matter what they do, they cannot seem to successfully make the transition from MTTs to cash games. In my discussions with them I have noticed, among other things, two major flaws in their attitudes towards poker. In addition, I recalled when I made the transition to cash games and it dawned on me that the same two problems plagued me. These two issues are one?s poker ego and a failure to effectively control emotions while playing.
Poker is a game that tends to foster large egos. At times, it is okay to have a big ego, but more often than not it will hurt one in their quest to be successful. I believe there are several reasons why large egos can affect one?s play. First and most important, it can hinder one from learning as much as they should. I?ve noticed that when certain player?s plays are critiqued, rather than absorbing the information being presented, they defend their plays. I think this is an immense mistake. Of course, this doesn?t necessarily always apply, but the underlying concept is valid regardless. It is extremely important to understand how others treat certain situations and why. At minimum, understanding the reasoning behind a player?s play can help one grow as a player in the aspect of understanding and reading other players. It can also help one realize better ways to approach different situations. I believe that one of the most important ways to improve as a player is to discuss hands with others, and to do this successfully, one must have an open mind.
Another problem that large egos can cause is forcing players to believe that they can compete and win at a higher level than they really can. I think this is especially true for MTT players who want to play cash games. One needs to make many adjustments and put in hard work before winning in cash games is possible. Cash games require many different skills than MTTs and it is vital that one realizes this and adjust accordingly. Furthermore, if a player is successful at a particular level of cash games, that doesn?t mean they will be a winning player at a higher level. Certain limits have vast differences in skill level and other aspects, such as higher variance, come into play at higher limits as well. One should use Pokertracker to track all their results so that they can be honest with themselves about their success at each level. It is often true that one can make more at a lower level than at the next higher level.
I feel that possibly the biggest difference between cash games and MTT is the fact that one?s emotional state plays a much larger role while playing cash games. Going on tilt is always in issue in MTTs, but at worst one will lose the buyin for the tournament. In cash games, one can lose a significant portion of their bankroll in one session if they let their emotions get the better of themselves. The facet that I feel bothers players the most is dealing with bad beats. The fact of the matter is that one is rarely a large favorite. In many situations one will be a 60% favorite. Furthermore, expect for extreme circumstances, one is likely at best an 80% favorite. This means that in the best case scenario one will lose one out of five times. If one plays several tables at once, they are going to run into that instance often. If a player lets that get the better of them, then they are never going to be able to reach their maximum potential. One must also keep in mind that in the short run you can lose a considerable amount of these hands in a row. That is the nature of variance. The mindset that I use to help me keep control is to always think of the long run. Poker is a long term game. If you consistently get your money in as a favorite, you will win money in the long run. It is that simple. Losing on particular hand to a bad beat means nothing in the long run. In fact, it is a necessity of the game. In the length of a poker career a player is going to take more incredibly tough beats than he or she can imagine, but that doesn?t matter. What matters is that one consistently gets their money in as the favorite. This should be a constant thought in one?s head during a playing session. Always remember that approximately 40% of your sessions are going to be losing sessions and know that is just a part of the game one plays.
The other key idea to grasp is that no one runs worse than anyone else. I hear so many bad beat stories, but I will tell people that I don?t feel any sympathy for them. We all run the same in the long run, and as I mentioned, the long run is what you need to focus on. When I hear bad beat stories, I know that the person telling the story is not focusing on the long run. Without the long run mindset I know that player is going to continue to struggle. One needs to convince themselves that no one is more unlucky than anyone else. Of course, one can run badly in the short term, but that is not of concern. Focus on the long run.
These ideas likely seem overly simple and redundant. I believe that is part of the reason people don?t understand their importance. Players take these ideas lightly and don?t devote enough time to mastering them. Once one appreciates the value of these concepts and works to improve on them, they will be that much closer to being a great poker player. Massive Multitabling+ Show Spoiler +
Hello CR members! I want to share my experience with heavy multi-tabling with you as I struggled myself with it for a long time.
Multi-tabling is a common thing in online poker. Most people play 2-4 table, some play 6, some even 8 and a few maniacs play 12 tables. This is my experience of multi-tabling lots of tables in the LOWER LIMITS (NL10-100 maybe 200). I recommend it to low limit players because you can build your bankroll quite easily and the main point is that you gain EXPERIENCE, which is one of the things a good poker player has to have.
Pros of 12 Tabling:
- Hands per hour: You WILL PLAY something between 950 and 1200 hands. Thats 20 hands a minute, 1 hand every 3 seconds.
- Rake: You produce a lot of rake and get a lot of rakeback. 1000 hands on NL50 are normally worth 10$ Rakeback (on FT).
- You will gain a LOT of experience because you'll see so many hands and boards.
- You will get a much better feel for the game when you play a lot.
- It's easier to tighten up, you have 1 hand every 3 seconds, you don't have to play LAG (if you are uncomfortable with it). Also it doesn't get
boring and you avoid stupid moves.
- You have bigger upswings because of a few things. You are not known for being good on one and the same table (Let's say you play a hand really well, you double through it and other players notice that -> they play carefully against you. But you have 11 other tables where probably no one from at table fears you yet.), Plus your rushes will be awesome!
- You face a lot of dumb opponents (we're talking about low limits) that will pay you off your big hands even if you play tight. Extract the
money from the fish!
- Normally your BB/100 will get smaller because you just play a bit worse but your winnings will be more simply because you play more.
Cons:
- You will NEVER play your A-game. You think you do? You don't. I thought I'd play my A-game when I play 12 Tables at the same time and after each review of my session I have to admit that I play a A-B game.
- You have bigger downswings because of a few things. Bad beats happen everywhere and might get you to tilt a bit. While it's not that big of a problem when you are playing 2 tables it's getting a really big issue in heavy multi-tabling. Tilting will crush your bankroll.
- You don't improve your hand reading skills) BUT you gain a lot of experience (increased hands per hour).
- Reviewing your big hands and your overall game takes a lot more time because you have many hands to review. For me that's a good thing because if I get in more tricky spots, I improve my game but time is an important factor everywhere in life and of course in poker too.
- People start playing back at you when they see that you are multi-tabling (can be dropped in games up to NL50)
- You have no reads about your opponents because you can't spectate the hands you are not in.
So now you have an idea what multi-tabling is about, I have set myself a few rules or tips which I (and you) should stick to very closely.
1) Never ever tilt.
You'll burn your money, you'll bust your bankroll. If you have a tilting mentality don't even try to play 12 tables. Remove the tilt issue from your brain. I've done it by saying to myself: Be patient, you'll play so many hands, your spots will come - wait for them and play them as good as you can!
2) You don't have to win every single pot.
Wait for your massive hits (sets, str8s, flushs, 2pair, etc.) and play carefully. Don't gamble, don't do coinflips if you can avoid them. You may fold the best hand a lot of times but you will strike back when you have a big hand. That doesn't mean you should play a more passive way (all cardrunnermembers should know that aggression is GOOD) - just ask yourself: Do I want to play for stacks with my TPTK? Maybe you should wait for a better spot because you don't have any reads of your opponents and don't know if they are capable of a big bluff or an allin with TPSK. Let's say you open AcKd from the button, BB calls,is deepstacked and has the stats 19/15.
Flop: Kc 5h Qc, BB checks, you bet, he calls.
Turn: 2s, he checks, you bet, calls.
River: 8s, he goes all in. What do you do? You have no reads, he has a big stack and maybe doesn't play like a donk. You decide to call because you think he might have a combo draw TcJc and is on a complete bluff, he shows 55 and you lose. Keep away from risking your stack with just TPTK!
3) Tighten up a bit.
If your normal game is 22/20 you can drop to 18/16 or even 16/14 - there is no need to play tons of hands - if you can handle playing a LAG style while playing 12 tables do it BUT be aware of that it's much harder to play a LAG style when you don't know your opponents.
4) Don't bluff too much, avoid it totally if you struggle to keep track of the games. Your bluffs will look so bad most of the time because you just can't interpret the situation well when you don't have time to
think about it. For sure you will add the element of bluffing in your game because it's good but don't do it when you start with 12 tables the first week.
5) There are 2 very basic concepts of post flop play: Either you CBET nearly every flop or you stick strictly to PAhud (read below). I think it's best to get the table flow and decide individually. Use PAhud as it would be your water in the desert. Don't use it, USE it. I can't stress enough how important it is. If you don't have it, don't play 12 Tables. Here are some hints that are required to play so many tables.
a) You need the following stats: PFR, VPIP, CBET, Fold to CBET, Aggression factors on each street.
b) Interpret the stats! I won't get in detail with the PFR and VPIP stats because everybody should know about it. CBET and Fold to CBET are the key stats, Aggression factors are also very important.
This is why: You normally don't have any reads. You see his stats: CBET 90%, Fold to CBET 60%. You opened, he called. You have to CBET because he will fold in 6 out of 10 times. Bet nearly ANY board. Other way round it's the same, he CBETS 9 out of 10 times, if you have a piece (or don't - you want to bet the turn if you are in position) float him or reraise him. Rely to the stats, don't even think about it if it's not a hyper wicked board like 9sTsJs. Aggression factors are also quite interesting because opponents might get that you play just standard ABC poker with some exceptions and play back at you. If you face an opponent whose Aggression stats are below 1.5 he has a good hand in 90% of the time. If you face a very aggressive player- well, tough decision. Just try to get a feel for him and watch some showdowns. Don't get in tough spots, wait for your chance!
c) Rely on the stats and don't make stupid decisions. That might sound a bit like a bot- like player without your own decisions but it really helps you when you are just starting to play more tables.
6) Make notes if you can. Notes can help you to get reads on your opponents even if you don't watch every hand they play.
7) Play within your bankroll and keep to it STRICTLY. A MINIMUM of 20 buyins behind is REQUIRED. If you drop to 18 buyins move down. Your swings will be a lot bigger then they are on just 2 tables so don't fool around with your bankroll management - 8buyins+- in one hour can happen very quickly.
8) Don't play longer then 1 (max 90min) hour. You simply won't even play your B-game anymore - you play C to D. Relax some time, start again.
9) Review your sessions closely but NOT within one of your pauses.
10) Switch tables frequently if you see that the table averages (VPIP below 20%) get nasty or if you feel uncomfortable with your opponents.
This article is for multi-table beginners (and maybe some experienced multi-table guy finds something useful in it) so the rules and tips are just basic things. Once you can handle the tables you'll play more and more LAG, you have a better feeling for your tables, you don't make your decisions with just PAhud, etc.
I recommend winning players to try it out, grind the low levels and when you move up get back to 2-4 tables, adjust your play, try to beat the opponents and add a table if you feel comfortable. Thanks for reading.
-Corny Adapting with a LAG Style+ Show Spoiler +
With the new breed of young aggressive poker players taking center stage in the poker world, a loose aggressive style of play has become very popular. This is no coincidence. Playing a loose aggressive (LAG) style is a very good strategy, possibly the best, when playing no-limit hold'em. For those of you that are members of CardRunners.com, you know that we preach a LAG style exclusively. However, I have observed that as many people blindly adapt to this style some clarifications need to be made.
There are a few reasons why a LAG style is successful. The key to being a successful LAG player is realizing the importance of position. More than anything else, LAG players use position to their advantage. When position is correctly used, it achieves several objectives. One of these goals is deception. If you are raising a lot of weak hands, it is very hard for your opponents to put you on a hand. In addition, when you play loose in small pots, you lead your opponents to believe that you will play the same way in large pots. A good LAG player won't play a large pot without a near lock hand, but many players don't realize this. Furthermore, good LAG players use position to pick up pots that they normally would not win. Being the aggressor is very important in no-limit hold'em and correctly using position allows greatly aids in successfully being an aggressor.
Playing a LAG style does not mean that one should apply the exact same LAG style to every type of no-limit hold'em. Adjustments need to be made for different games and limits. A LAG style works best for higher limit cash games. That does not mean that it doesn't work in other games. The basic concepts outlined above hold true for all variations of no-limit hold?em.
For instance, when playing a SNG, low-limit especially, it is not correct to play loose in the early stages. However, I still endorse a LAG style for SNGs. This style is achieved by playing tight during the early stages and gradually opening up as the blinds increase. The correct style of play at the bubble is LAG. This overall style accomplishes two things. First of all, it accomplishes deception by portraying a tight image. This image allows one to steal when the blinds increase. In addition, it keeps one out of trouble early in the SNG. There is no reason to play large pots without very good hands early in SNGs.
Another variation to consider is low limit cash games. There are many differences between the play in a 5/10nl game and a .50/1nl game. Two examples of differences are that players at 5/10nl pay much more attention to position and will fold much more often. With this in mind, one must tighten up at the lower limits. It doesn't pay to watch players at higher levels and exactly emulate their play. The basic principles that they use hold true at all levels, but are applied differently. I still consider the way I play at lower limits LAG, but I don't play nearly as loose as I do at the higher games. The most important principle to apply to lower limits is position. However, it doesn't pay to blindly raise in position. The effectiveness of continuation bets is much lower at the smaller stakes. That fact alone means that a successful player must tighten up. In addition, semi-bluffs decrease in effectiveness as well.
Multi-table Tournaments (MTTs) pose another challenge when trying to apply a LAG style. I believe that early in tournaments, one's play should imitate cash game play. There is a similar chip stack to blind ratio between cash games and early stages of MTTs. LAG players can raise weaker hands in position, but they still need to avoid playing large pots without good hands. I don't fault someone for playing a tight aggressive (TAG) style early in MTTs. In fact, I think that at the lower limits TAG is the best style to use. Similarly to SNGs, as the blinds increase it is important for players to open up their game and begin to steal blinds. This is where the LAG style goes into action. However, it is very important to not overdo it. If players at a table begin to feel that a LAG player is running over the table, they will play back. LAG players must walk the fine line of raising many hands without becoming "out of line" in the eyes of their opponents.
It is important to realize that a LAG style does not dictate the same play at all variations and limits of no-limit hold'em. No-limit hold'em is a game that requires continual adaptations to different situations. Adjusting a LAG style to different situations is a prefect example of that. I feel that if used correctly a LAG is the most effective way to play no-limit hold'em; it just must be used properly.
-Muddy Water Adjusting Your Play Based on Credit+ Show Spoiler +
Poker is a game where players win money by bluffing or getting paid off fortheir hands. To maneuver successfully between the two methods, players mustrealize their own table image- or what I would like to call credit. When youhave credit (a good table image) players will fold to your bets more. However,when you have no credit, players will categorize you as a bluffer, and play backat you or call your bets much more frequently. Today I am going to explain the differences in the way you should playpoker based on the type of "credit" you have.
No credit
Playing without credit is tougher than playing with credit. It's not necessarily bad to have no credit in the eyes of your opponents; it just means that you have to play a super tight game and minimize your bluffing frequency.
When is it that players give you no credit for hands? An example is where you?ve raised pre-flop with 3-8 suited in a shorthanded game and bet pot on both the flop and turn/river and got called down, thus exposing your horrible hand.
Players will see this and will not give you credit for a good hand the next time you raise pre-flop or bet flop. They will tend to play back at you (re-raise you) as often as they can. Mostly, they will do this with a check raise or a raise on the flop. Getting played back at constantly can be very expensive.
If they hold any pair on the flop, they would most definitely call you on the flop, and probably on a later street. Thus, switching to a super tight game is a good choice.
Yet, by realizing that a raise on the flop by your opponents on the flop is likely to be a bluff, a reraise to ?resteal? the pot could be appropriate - depending on your read. But you must be careful, players will also tend to check their monster hands to you and either check raise you the first time you bet, or on a later street, hoping to let you put money in the pot. In short, you will get into trickier situations when you have no credit at the tables. You can use it to your advantage if you understand that your opponents will be re-raising with marginal hands.
The advantage of having no credit in the eyes of your opponents is that they will call many more of your bets and pay you off for your big hands. The disadvantages of having no credit are that you must play a much tighter game and you must be very selective bluffing, thus greatly diminishing your value of position.
Credit
Playing with credit is much easier to play than playing without credit since people?s bets and raises against you are more likely to mean a good hand, and there is a lot less reverse psychology involved.
When you start at a new table, you usually start out with credit in your opponents? eyes. Players will be more likely to give you the benefit of doubt. An example where you would gain credit is if you raise pre-flop with AK and check the flop of rags to the river. This gives the impression that you raise pre-flop with good hands, and you don?t bluff often (since AK was probably the best hand at the flop but you didn?t bet it).
When you have credit, it is much easier to take pots after you raised pre-flop and bet the flop. Players would be less likely to play back at you with nothing. This also makes your opponents easier to read. If the flop comes 3 8 8 and you bet, players will tend to fold to you unless they have a pair or the trips. So if someone calls, you should probably check the rest of the way.
I play more aggressive when I have credit. I will raise pre-flop more liberally (especially in position), and bet out at almost any flop. I will also be more likely to raise someone on a draw. I will also be able to get clearer reads on others since their play will be more straightforward.
To summarize, the advantage of having good credit is that you will be able to steal many more pots and have players play more straightforward against you. The disadvantage is that you will less often be paid off for big hands.
Switching gears and changing betting patterns based on your credit becomes much more important as you play for bigger stakes. Realizing how much credit you have will also give you clearer reads on your opponents? intentions, and also helps you make better plays.
-Filthy Double Barrelling+ Show Spoiler +
One of the topics I am frequently asked about is when it is appropriate to double barrel. The term double barreling refers to a player making a second continuation bet without a made hand on the turn. The question of when to double barrel is an incredibly open ended question that has countless variables affecting the answer. However, there are general guidelines that can be followed to determine when a second barrel can or should be fired.
Many low limit players tend to overcompensate and fire too many barrels. They feel that the LAG style requires them to run a lot of bluffs. In fact, playing a LAG style is much more about using position than anything else, such as running a lot of bluffs. The essence of LAG play is to create the illusion that you are playing looser than you really are. This means that, at times, you will need to make a bet on the turn with nothing, but it should only be done with caution.
In most instances, after a flop continuation bet, it is best to surrender an unimproved hand. This is especially true at lower limits. Double barreling is more effective at the higher limits (5/10+). There are too many unsophisticated calling stations at the lower limits. Reads also come into play more in the higher stakes games. In these games the opponents are much more observant. In addition, often times, there is history between players as well.
I typically only double barrel about 20% of the time. By only betting a fraction of the time, my bets are able to retain respect. At the same time the occasional double barrel will allow doubt to enter the mind of my opponent. I believe there is more value in having added respect on the turn than having complete disrespect. A good player should be able to manipulate hands in his favor, allowing him to get paid off on good hands. When you don?t have a hand, which occurs more often, you will want respect. The fact that I know my second bet gets respect a lot of the time influences the situations I double barrel in. If I felt my respect on a table was low, I would not double barrel at all. The opposite is true when I have a lot of respect.
The most apparent spot to make a second bet is when your opponent is obviously floating you. This situation applies more when you are playing the hand out of position. It is usually unlikely for a player to float out of position on a regular basis. When you notice that you are getting floated by a specific player, it is often a good idea to start making some double barrel bets. This will typically win you the pot while sending a message at the same.
Unless you are constantly getting floated, you will want to consider the board texture and the speed of the game before making a second continuation bet. Most often, you will want a scare card to come on the turn. For instance, if the board reads Q72 and the turn is an A, you can often represent the ace and bet again. However, if the board read Q72 and the turn was a 2, you wouldn?t want to bet very often. In the former example you can force out a pair of queens. In the latter, it is unlikely that queens will fold. However, one thing to consider is the second card. If the board?s second card is a card close to the top card, there is a reasonable chance that your opponent called your first continuation bet with second pair. An example of this would be on a KJx board. Your opponent would often call a flop bet with a hand like AJ, but would typically fold to a bet on a blank turn.
Situations where semibluffs are possible are also good spots to make a second bet. This situation, however, is more read based. The problem lies in the fact that if you bet the turn and are check-raised, you often have to fold the hand. The exception is when you have put in a lot of money and have a combo draw. Otherwise, you won?t be getting the right odds to call a push. Therefore, by taking a second stab at the pot you eliminate your free card and chance of making your hand cheap. You will need to keep an eye on your opponent tendencies. Two important factors to consider are how often your opponent slow plays big hands and how frequently he check-raises. His timing can also play a significant role. Usually an instacall on the flop signals weakness. Opponents tend to hold a hand that is mediocre but not great when they instacall the flop. They know that they will call and not raise or fold and therefore there is little thinking to be done, hence the instacall.
The most important thing to realize is that double barrel bets should be used with low frequency. Their purpose is to keep your opponents honest and also to build action for when you have a real hand. Even occasional use will plant the seed of doubt in your opponents mind during future encounters. Double barreling is a necessary tool as long as it is used in the right scenarios and with the right frequency. The next time you find yourself mindlessly firing two continuation bets or convincing yourself that your opponent is weak for no reason, stop and consider if you are in a favorable situation to fire that second barrel. Most times, you probably aren't.
-Muddy Water Definition of a Cold Streak+ Show Spoiler +
Definition of Cold Streak (Filthy)
I define a cold streak as losing a lot of money in a period of time due to either horrible luck or horrible play.
Intro to Cold Streaks
Until recently, I never believed in cold runs. I always felt that even if I got terrible cards, at worst, I would lose a nominal amount. In reality, it was only because I couldn't properly identify a bad run of cards. Every time I had a horrible streak of cards, I'd unconsciously play very poorly. I would blame my play rather than my cards for my losing ways. This caused me to lose a lot more money than I should have lost. Whether you blame the cards you are being dealt or your play during a bad run doesn't matter. What matters is that you are likely not properly identifying when you are running poorly. I think the most important remedy for this terrible but inevitable part of poker is to identify when you're on a cold streak and really focus on playing your A game.
Identifying Cold Streaks
I've had two huge cold streaks in my poker career. Both times came after a huge rush. At the beginning of each rush, I was playing well and winning money because of it. However, after a few sessions my cards were running so well that I let my cards play for me. I began to fail to put the proper thought into each hand. I only thought about how good the rush was and I focused on the money rather than playing my A game.
Strangely enough, I started to question why I was winning so much. I started to expect the rush to stop and consequently start losing. However, I was enjoying the moment too much and didn't stop to analyze my play and watch others play. My vision on the table felt very blurry, but I couldn't stop playing. As I had expected, I started to lose and before I knew it I was on a bad run.
I know the feeling of these cold streaks very well. The first time I was on a cold streak, I thought everyone was bluffing me. It was impossible for me to lay down hands because I thought of that small possibility of getting bluffed out. I always thought people were stealing from me if I got raised on the flop and thus always reraised. On the river, I'd make excuses for myself and call any bet if I had a pair. It was disastrous. I took the game very personally.
However, during my second cold streak, every time I got raised, I wanted to fold. If I raised preflop, I prayed that everyone with position on me would fold. If they called, I had no idea what to do. I felt paralyzed just by people calling my preflop bets. After an extended period of this mindset, I finally realized how weak I was playing. This awareness allowed me to evaluate my play and I started playing well again. Not much later, A hand came up where I flopped second pair and got raised on the flop. I KNEW my opponent was on either the straight or the flush draw so I pushed all in to make him pay for his draw. Then I thought to myself, "Wow, I actually had a read on my opponent." I was out of the cold streak and it seemed like my vision became clearer.
Getting out of a cold streak
After identifying a cold streak, the next important thing is to work to end it. I suggest taking a break. Take a break from anything related to poker to clear up your head and forget those bad habits that you've been developing. After that, I would suggest watching a few of your friends play. You should watch players who are either on your level or a little better. Have them explain their every move to you and review those important concepts that you've forgotten. Or you can watch the videos that the pros have time preparing for their members. Another good idea is to take yourself when you think you are playing A+ game and either save hand histories or record yourself playing. That will give you something to reference when you feel you are no longer playing your A game.
If you're playing well but just have horrible luck, switch to another site for a while. It doesn't hurt to do that. Sometimes playing at different sites will teach you different things too. Be sure to be honest with yourself though. It is very easy to convince yourself you are playing your A game when you aren't playing anywhere near your best.
Conclusion
Due to the luck factor in poker, it is a game where it is very hard to evaluate how well you're playing. It's very important to understand and evaluate your short term results with accuracy. Playing your A game all the time is one of the most important aspects to being a successful poker player.
-Filthy Moving Down a Level - Good Option+ Show Spoiler +
Moving down in limits has a negative connotation among poker players. I believe that being able to step down in limits, if done for the proper reasons, can be extremely beneficial for a struggling player. Players often go through "cold runs" during their poker careers. Furthermore, players are very quick to blame these runs on poor cards and unlucky situations. While this can be the case, I believe that poor play often plays a large role in any player's bad run. When a player convinces himself he is on a bad run, he has created an excuse to play poorly. This produces a vicious cycle that can often be very difficult to end. My formula for ending a bad run begins with taking a few days off from poker. This enables me to "clear my head." It is vital to have a clear mind when playing. I also advocate moving down a limit from your normal game. There are many benefits to moving down.
Good players thrive on their own confidence. When that confidence is damaged, there will often be adverse effects on their play. A good loose aggressive player (LAG) will make a large portion of his winnings by utilizing his reading skills in marginal situations. In order for a LAG player to make the correct decision in these difficult situations, he must be reading his opponents well and acting correctly on those reads. This can be prove very difficult if a player doesn't feel confident about his own game. A LAG needs to trust his reads, and it is impossible to do that if that player doesn't feel good about how he/she is playing.
Stepping down a limit or two is one way to rejuvenate one's confidence. Players should feel comfortable at the stakes they play. In addition, players will likely be more comfortable at limits lower than their typical level. By increasing their level of comfort, players are able to recover lost confidence.
A player's bankroll and his attitude towards that bankroll are other important aspects to consider. I believe that keeping an adequate bankroll is very important to playing well. Part of the reason for this is that it enables one to play well, because it eliminates from a player's mind the possibility of going broke. I have realized that I play much more effectively when my bankroll has over thirty buy-ins for a particular limit.
I mentioned that is important to move down for the proper reasons. I don't think it is beneficial to stay at a limit until you have lost so much that to avoid going broke, you must move down. I advocate moving down well before you reach that point. That allows you to still have an excessive amount for the lower limit. By doing this, you enable yourself to avoid dwelling on the money aspect of the game. Ignoring the monetary function of the game is essential to reaching one's potential as a poker player. This also creates opportunities to focus on improving specific aspects of one's game. I believe it is important for players to single out specific leaks in their game and consequently work to improve them. This can be a costly process that is best carried out at limits where the money doesn't mean as much.
I am very adamant about moving down when running bad, because it has worked for me. Several months ago, I was in the middle of the worst streak of my life. I had a bankroll of approximately $25,000, which was more than enough for 2/4nl and plenty for 5/10nl. However, after two months of breakeven play at 5/10nl, I decided that something needed to change. I made the decision that it was time to move to 2/4nl and reevaluate my game. I left 5/10nl after playing there for four months. Moving down proved to be one of the best decisions I have ever made during my time as a poker player. Immediately after moving down, my confidence began to return, and I began to win again.
I utilized my time at 2/4nl by focusing on several aspects of my game that I was struggling with at the time. One of these was correctly using position to my advantage. During my first period at 5/10nl, I didn't fully understand how to play a LAG style. I thought a LAG style consisted solely of raising weak hands (ie. suited connectors) and hoping to connect well with a flop. While working on emphasizing position at 2/4nl, I started to understand that in LAG play, utilizing position is almost as important as the cards you are dealt.
However important position was, I knew that before moving up again, I had to defeat my biggest demon, tilt. I often tilted away thousands of dollars at a time during my first run at 5/10nl. While playing 2/4nl, I was able to focus on improving my emotional control. I realized that poker is a long run game, and I worked to concentrate on that fact as much as possible. I played 2/4nl for a month and a half, and I was able to make huge strides in my game. When I returned to 5/10nl, I was an entirely new player.
I suggest that when players are hitting a rough streak, they take a step back to clear their minds. A player should not be ashamed in moving down their stakes for a period, and it could be just what they need to get back the confidence they may be missing.
-Muddy Water What's Your Edge?+ Show Spoiler +
Even though I primarily play poker in some of the highest stakes games on the internet, I see players make many basic errors. Usually players develop holes in their game while they are playing at the lower stakes games, but they can overcome them to remain a winning player because the competition they play makes even more mistakes than they do! These same players wonder why they repeatedly lose as they move up to the higher limits, but the simple truth is that they are making more mistakes than their opponents. In an effort to help players aspiring to move to the top of the poker ranks, today I am going to discuss a concept I have coined: your "edge." It is important to note that the concept as a whole is nothing new, but I haven't seen these principles presented together as a basis to guide to all decisions at the poker table.
First, I must define the word "edge," as it applies to playing winning poker. The simplest way to understand this term is to think of it as your advantage in a given hand over the other players you are playing against. For purposes of this article, I will only discuss your edge as it applies to making the decision of whether you should fold, call, or raise your hand preflop. This concept applies to every decision you will ever make at the poker table, but it would be very complicated to discuss in one article.
For example, your edge could be simply that you hold better cards than your opponents. It could also be that one of your opponents is on tilt and you are not. You could be in better table position than your opponent, or you could be against a player that understands next to nothing about the game. You also may have no edge whatsoever on your opponents in a given hand, in which case the obvious decision is that you should fold (this is an oversimplification as there are times you would play a hand in which you don't have an overall edge, but where the future benefits you gain from your opponent being misled about the way you play makes the play worthwhile). On the surface, this concept is very easy to understand, but it should be noted that like almost all other concepts in poker, higher level thinking complicates things greatly.
I am now going to discuss some of the primary sources of your edge at the poker table and how you can weigh these factors into whether or not you should play your hand, and also how you should play it. I will list them in their order of importance and then discuss how to use them in conjunction with each other.
1) Your cards are better than what your expected opponents have.
The most important edge you can have over another player at the table is the fact that you hold better cards than he does. If you consistently hold better cards than your opponents and can play even close to as good as they do after the flop, you will win money in the long run. If you gave an average player pocket aces every time and Phil Ivey just about anything else (as long as they both didn?t know what the other held), I don't think anyone would suggest Ivey could win.
2) You have better table position than your expected opponents have.
Position is king in no-limit hold'em. If you are on the button, you act after everyone else does. You have added information about the other player's hands, which allows you to make better decisions about how to play your hand. These better decisions lead to profit in the long run. To illustrate this point, assuming only two players see the flop, I would rather have Ace King on the button than pocket nines on the cutoff. 99 is a slight statistical favorite to AK, but I would rather take the slight underdog with a positional advantage. Assuming pocket nines raises in late position, I will probably re-raise on the button. It is likely that he will flat call my re-raise in this situation. I will make a standard 2/3 ? 3/4 ?continuation? bet on the flop, and he will likely fold if any of the following cards come on the flop: A, K, Q, J, T. Let's assume none of these cards are on the flop (even though most of the time one of them will appear), most players will just flat call my continuation bet on the flop because they are scared I may hold a bigger pair. In this case, I still have six true outs on the turn and can bluff a wide variety of other "scare" cards. This example oversimplifies things a little bit, but you can see that by combining a solid hand with good table position, you are still better off than a slightly better hand with bad table position.
3) Your table image will mislead players into making incorrect decisions against you.
When most people play poker, they can't help but make observations about the players they are playing with. Unless they are paying no attention at all to the game, they will at least notice which players are raising a lot of hands and which players are never in a hand. If you are playing against players that don't notice these things, this rule may not apply, but don't worry, you should be doing just fine without it in a game like this.
There are a variety of ways your table image can mislead your opponents. The easiest way to use your table image to your advantage is to play solid poker (raise good hands, don't bluff very often, etc.) for a long period of time and then suddenly change your style of play. Players will give you credit for your old table image, and you can usually bluff them a few times before they will adjust their perceptions about you. This works especially well if you are making a lot of good hands and winning big pots with them. Other players will see your solid hands and will simply stay out of your way, and then you can start to raise more marginal hands, because you probably won't face much resistance from your opponents.
The opposite is also true. If you are playing many hands and your opponents catch you bluffing, you can take advantage of this as well. When you do pick up a very strong hand, play it even more aggressively than you normally would. You might make a raise that is larger than the size of the pot, or even move all your chips into the pot in some cases. The point is you are playing differently than you normally would to take advantage of the fact that players perceive you as a very loose player. In this case, you want them to think you are bluffing, so you play a hand as if you would want them to fold.
4) You are much better player (after the flop particularly) than your expected opponents.
This rule must have a disclaimer attached to it. I hear many players say things like "I played 56s because of the implied odds if I were to catch a big flop." However, I also notice these same players going broke when the flop comes 226 and their opponent has an over pair. If you are going to play speculative hands against other opponents, be sure that you are an experienced enough player to know when you are likely beat, and to NEVER unnecessarily lose a big pot with these hands.
If you are playing against opponents who are considerably weaker than you, you can get away with consistently playing SLIGHTLY worse hands than they are. You might raise with some more speculative hands, in order to exploit the fact that they will never fold top pair (which you will beat from time to time, and you understand how to maximize your return when you do). If you have any doubts as to whether you are a better player than your competition, tighten up your starting hand requirements and play more strong hands.
5) You hold some other miscellaneous edge over your expected opponents.
Miscellaneous edges come from a variety of different factors. Your opponent might be tired from playing a very long session. He might be playing 8 tables at a time and be unable to possibly keep up with your changing table image. He might have lost a big pot (possibly even at another table that he doesn't know you are watching) and start to go on tilt. There are a variety of ways that you can exploit these different situations, and it is up to you to decide just how important each one is. Typically the most significant source of edge in this category is if a player is on mega-tilt.
***
Now that you know the order of importance of some of the most important sources of edge at the poker table, you must learn how to correctly exploit them. I will now briefly describe some of my recommendations:
-Edge #1 is far and away the most important edge to have. If you consistently have better cards than your opponents (and they are still seeing flops with you), you will make money.
-If you don't have edge #1 in your favor, you should have AT LEAST two other sources of edge in your favor. For example, I wouldn't mind seeing a flop against a player I knew probably had better cards than me, as long as I had edge #2 (table position) and edge #3 (favorable image) in my favor. If I also knew that I had edge #4 (I am a much better player after the flop) in my favor, I would love to be in this position against the other player repeatedly. Now, this is assuming your cards aren't consistently terribly worse than your opponents. For example, even with every other edge in the world on my side, I wouldn't want to take 27o up against AA.
-You must stay aware of how your different sources of edge change during each session. In particular you must keep an eye on what types of hands your opponents think you are playing. You can go from being pegged as a very tight player to being loose aggressive to being on tilt (in their eyes) in a matter of only a few hands.
-I've said this earlier, but I want to emphasize, do not overestimate edge #4. This edge should be considered in addition to, not in place of, the other edges that I have listed.
-There are many other miscellaneous edges that are exploitable in poker. I encourage all of you to look for them yourself and incorporate them into your game.
***
This is the first time I have written about this concept, even though I have thought about it for a long time. I think there is room for advancement of this concept, with the possibility even of developing a mathematical formula which calculates when it is correct to play a hand. I would be interested in discussing this concept further if anyone is interested.
I hope this article will give poker players a better idea of the framework successful players use to decide when and how they should play their hands. Until next time, I wish everyone continued success at the tables!
-Green Plastic Using Poker Tracker+ Show Spoiler +
Poker Tracker (PT) is a great tool for any poker player trying to keep track of their results as well as improve their play. In this article I am going to explain to you how I use PT to increase my bottom line at the tables. For those of you that don't know, PT takes hand histories and stores them in a database that gives you all of the stats you could possibly want about both yours and your opponent's play.
First, you need to get in the habit of "grabbing" all of your hand histories. There are programs available on the PT website (pokertracker.com) that will save all of your hand histories so they can be easily imported to PT at the end of the session. I use one of these programs to save my hands on UB. If you can't find a grabber for the poker site you play on, you can request your hand histories from customer support. It is essential that you get into the habit of saving ALL of your sessions. It is tempting to not track your play when you are running poorly, but do yourself a favor and grab all of your hands so PT can give you an accurate assessment of your game.
I am not going to give you too many specific statistics to look for, as different PT stats would vary among some top players (depending on game, stakes, style, etc.). Rather, I am going to explain to you the process of how I use PT to make sure I am playing my best game over time. I have found that it is easy to develop bad habits in poker, and PT is the main tool I use to "police" myself and make sure I am not getting sloppy.
The first thing you should do is look at your Vol. Put $ In Pot column. This means how often you are putting money into the pot (pre-flop) when you don't have to (i.e. not on the BB or on the SB but you fold). My percentage is 34.81%. I would imagine this is pretty high compared to what most NL players would have because I am very aggressive and I usually play short-handed. However, there is something you can take away from this statistic. My pre-flop raise percentage is 25.46%. What does this tell you? Over two-thirds of the time I am voluntarily putting money into the pot I am RAISING. I am playing a lot of hands but I am NOT calling. This is very important. I think this is the single most important piece to becoming a winning no-limit cash game player. When you enter the pot, be the aggressor! Even if your numbers vary from mine, make sure that the majority of the time you are voluntarily entering the pot you are the raiser.
Also, take a look at how often you are folding your SB/BB to a steal (folded SB/BB to steal). I fold 78% of the time in the SB and 70% in the BB. This is noteworthy because I am playing shorthanded. I am not playing very often out of the blinds when a late-position raiser makes a standard raise. Even though I know that he probably has just as bad of a hand that I have, I am giving up my blinds and waiting for a better spot. I would suggest that you try to make sure your numbers in these columns are as high as mine, if not higher.
My Attempted to Steal Blinds percentage is pretty high at 34.5%. This means that when it is un-raised to me in late position I make a raise 34.5% of the time. Remember, I am playing short-handed as well so this figure is probably higher than I would recommend most NL players playing.
Another tool that I recommend using on PT is the Misc. Stats tab. At the bottom of the screen you can filter the stats to see your month-to-month results. I like to look at my voluntarily put $ into the pot over time. I compare my stats month-to-month and I make sure that I am staying pretty consistent. There are times when I notice that I am playing too loosely and I will make a conscious effort to tighten up my play. Look at how your stats are changing over time and you can see how your game is progressing.
I hope this helps, feel free to post on the boards about any questions or other PT comments.
-Green Plastic Using PAHUD Stats+ Show Spoiler +
I've received quite a few PM's and questions on the forums regarding my PAHUD layout, and what stats I look for in my opponents, and finally how I then use them in interpreting my opponen's line in various situations.
I have 14 basic stats that I use permanently displayed. I use these primarily as well as clicking on the popup every so often in certain spots when I need to take a look at other stats such as turn aggression which I don't have displayed.
I'm going to go through each stat based on a rough guide to how I'll label a player in the 6 max games at the low-mid stakes.
VPIP:
<15% - Very tight - playing premium only in EP (probably JJ+ and AK) and only slightly opening up in late position.
15-22% - Generally tight. Would tend to have a slightly larger opening raise in EP (I like to note if these players raise all pocket pairs in EP) and a much wider range for late position.
22-30% - Semi-loose. These guys are probably opening all pairs UTG as well as hands like ATs and perhaps even suited broadways. They are raising a wide range most of the time in late position.
30-40% - Loose. These guys are playing too many hands in and out of position generally.
40%+ - Very loose. Not much more of a description needed ? these guys are basically playing all manner of trash.
PFR:
I like to take this number in context with VPIP when assigning villain a range of hands.
For instance, if PFR is <1/2 VPIP, then player is pretty passive preflop as they are limping over half the hands they are playing.
If the ratio is between 50-75% then these guys are raising more than limping, although they are not super aggressive. Anything over 75% ratio - they are raising the vast majority of their hands and are aggressive preflop.
This is much more useful, in my opinion, than looking at the individual number.
For example, a 65/18 is not particularly aggressive. He is just having fun, and doesn?t have much of a clue. But a 21/18 is going to be an aggressive player - and should be treated as such.
AF:
In my layout, I have this number fitted into 3 categories.
<1.5 is passive, 1.5-2.2 is average, and >2.2 is aggressive.
It's important to know aggression by street too - so I look out for this a lot on my popup stats.
Aggression Factor number is useful because you can assign a wider or tighter range of hands to your opponent based on their aggression factor. If you get raised by a guy who's AF is 1, then you can be pretty sure that he has got a good hand and you can think about pitching any good but not great hands. But in the same spot, if you get repopped by someone who's AF is 6, then you can't assign them such a compact range of hands and you'd definitely want to continue if you had a good but not great hand.
Attempt to Steal %:
I have this categorised into 3 areas.
If opponent attempts to steal less than 20% of the time, then I generally give them a tighter range for open raising in the cutoff or button. He definitely isn't raising as light as someone with a 35% attempt to steal %. Anyone between 20% and 27% then they probably have a bigger range but aren't totally out of line, whereas anyone with 27%+ is raising their position pretty light and their raises need to be treated as such. Anyone higher than 35% is probably raising the vast majority of their hands on the button.
A typical scenario would be when you are in the blinds with a hand like AJ - Decent player opens in cutoff with a high attempt to steal % and a fish calls behind him. This is a prime opportunity to squeeze because the decent player probably has a pretty weak hand, and the fish could have all manner of hands. Not one of them can stand a reraise most of the time in the region of 15-16BBs so this is a great chance to take the pot down without seeing a flop.
Fold Blind to Steal%:
I probably don't look at this number as much as I should - but I would say that anyone whose number is >80% will generally be playing pretty tight out of position and anyone above 90% is playing super tight out of position and I'd probably steal against them with most hands. Anyone less than 70% is playing out of position too much and can easily be exploited too as they are going to have to make hands without position or the betting lead and they wont do this enough for their style to be profitable.
Fold to C-Bet%:
This is one of the most valuable stats. If this isn't permanently displayed on your HUD, I strongly recommend it is.
Putting it bluntly, continuation betting against some people is basically burning money, although I see many regulars do it every single hand. Anyone whose number in this area is <50%, I'd probably only c-bet against them on the best of boards - I'm talking paired boards here or boards with one high card and two low cards such as K 6 2 rainbow, in a heads up pot. They just wont fold enough for a c-bet to be profitable on other boards. However, on the flip side of this, if you have something, you can value bet against these guys until they go bust. They won't fold and you can win big pots with your good hands. So against people who don't fold, bluff less and value bet more is good advice.
If someone folds between 50-70%, they probably aren't total calling stations, but they do play back with marginal hands like 44 on a 2 8 T flop and may not fold marginal draws such as gutshots or chase flush draws with incorrect odds.
Anyone who folds between 70-80%, you can be reasonably sure they aren't chasing a huge amount and are only going to be putting in money with a reasonable hand.
Anyone who folds over 80% of the time, I probably c-bet them on every flop in a heads up pot. They need a good hand to continue, and the maths are against them on that count.
Fold to Flop Bet %:
This is similar to fold to c-bet apart from the c-bet fold % refers only to raised pots. I generally find the numbers for each opponent to be similar (+/- 10%) and my observations for c-betting hold in unraised pots as well.
C-Bet %:
As I said earlier, many regulars seem to c-bet about 90%+ of the time. At the low-mid stakes, I truly believe this is burning money in some situations. I think c-betting about 65%-75% of the time at these stakes is far more optimal, and obviously picking your spots is key. I don't use the c-bet % number that much, but if someone c-bets more than 85% of the time, you can be pretty sure that they are doing this with or without a hand, and on many different board textures. I'd be more inclined to call these players when I have position, than someone who picks his spots much more thoroughly. I don't tend to come across many players who c-bet <50% of the time, but if I did, I'd be inclined to give them more credit for a hand.
Bet River %:
This is one of the most important stats for me. Many fish love to take the line of: Call a position raise out of position preflop, check/call flop, check/check turn and lead for 75%-100% of pot on the river. This could be a variety of hands from a slow played monster, to a busted draw to a pair of some sort (even third pair in my experience). Think about their thought process for a short while: What's he thinking after you check turn behind him? Usually, "Ha, he has nothing because he checked. If he had something, he'd have bet there. If I bet the river, I'm gonna win this pot!"
If someone has a Bet River % of >30% then I am calling them down pretty light. These guys are going to be 'value betting' bad hands a lot (such as top pair bad kicker, second pair or even worse) as well as busted draws. Basically their chance of having a slow played monster decreases, and the chance of them having a hand such as a busted draw or a marginal pair increases.
If a player has a Bet River of <20%, however, I am giving them much more respect and adjusting my calling/raising range accordingly.
Went to Showdown%/Won @ SD%:
I don't tend to refer to the showdown stats as much as I perhaps should, but I would make these general observations.
I find that something like 22-27% Went to Showdown and 52-55% Won @ SD % is the sign of a solid player who tends to know where he is in a hand.
Anyone who goes to showdown over 30% of the time, is a calling station, plain and simple. He loves to press that call button, and you can value bet him till the cows come home.
Anyone who goes to showdown <20% of the time is only calling with the best of it the vast majority of the time and you should probably try to avoid value betting him with marginal hands.
Anyone with >55% Won @SD% probably calls too sparingly, so you can consider bluffing them more often.
Anyone with <48% Won @ SD% often will call with the worst of it, so bluffing them is basically burning money.
C-Bet Call%/C-Bet Raise %:
These two stats are also vital numbers for me. I tend to use them in conjunction with the fold to c-bet % to judge the likelihood of being raised/called/folded against. Many players will hardly ever raise c-bets, but call them on a very regular basis, so it's important to know this in advance.
An example where this would be useful could be here:-
I open button with J9o. BB calls me. Flop comes 3 7 T rainbow. I flop a gutshot with an overcard. Not the greatest hand for me, but by the same token, a decent flop to c-bet, heads up in position, on the most part. Opponent folds to c-bets 60% of the time, but calls them 10% of the time and raises them 30% of the time. Here would be a good opportunity to perhaps check behind with your marginal draw and see a free turn card rather than betting and risking getting checkraised which he will do a fair amount of the time - a bet you essentially can't call.
However, if he folds to c-bets 60% of the time, but calls them 35% of the time and raises 5% of the time, here is a clear opportunity where you can c-bet your marginal hand and not have to worry about getting raised very often. You can then usually see 5 cards this way too.
I'd generally be getting wary of players if they have a >15% raise of c-bets number - or if their raise c-bets % was more than their call c-bets %.
Hopefully this has given you some insight into what to look for regarding your opponents stats. Obviously you need a decent sized sample for most stats (several hundred hands at least) - although for vpip/pfr you can start to make judgements earlier than this. I strongly suggest datamining on sites where it is available so that you can take advantage of these numbers, other winning players are doing this - so if they are, you need to as well!
Good luck at the tables,
-Fruity pro PLO Tournies+ Show Spoiler +
Chipping Up in Pot-Limit Omaha Tournaments
By Derric "Sixpeppers" Haynie
Since US Legislation has tightened restrictions on fund transferring to poker sites, I have noticed the no-limit hold'em ring games getting tougher. It makes sense; the fish are leaving because they can't put money onto the site nearly as easily. I have since been looking to diversify my games, looking for a new edge to exploit. I found it. Pot-Limit Omaha is the moneymaker of online poker right now. The edge on your opponents is much larger than in hold'em, even though the swings can be bigger.
Pot-limit Omaha tournaments are not that different from hold'em tournaments, except the players are worse. They play more hands than they should; they overvalue hands that were strong in hold'em but hold little to know value in Omaha; they frequently undervalue strong draws or wraps; and they frequently overvalue and overplay AAxx, KKxx, and QQxx.
Here are a few starting guidelines that should help you move from the middle stages of a tournament to finishing in the money or winning your next pot-limit Omaha tournament:
1. Avoid big confrontations. Most of your chips will come from blind stealing and continuation bets, avoid tangling in multiway raised pots especially with lone pairs (JJxx - KKxx). If you have a good drawing hand "a hit or miss kind of hand like QJT8, etc." this is a good time to see a flop, but a hand like QQ94 is going to be useless post flop quite often. Dry Kings can be folded from the blinds to a single raise from early or middle position raisers; it is just too unlikely that this hand will win you a big pot, and you will be out of position for the rest of the hand.
2. Stay away from loose players. You will likely be playing a loose aggressive style, but be patient (oxymoron). If a loose player limps in or raises, it is best to avoid a marginal confrontation. Exceptions would be of course, big hands, or strong drawing hands, as well as marginal hands on the button in an unraised pot. Otherwise, it will be best to wait for an unopened pot to make a positional raise, or wait for a bigger hand where you can get a large portion of your stack into the pot (50%+).
3. Blind Stealing. Early in a tournament, stealing blinds is a bad idea for three reasons:
(1) Bad/loose players haven't busted out of the tournament and are going to be trying to see lots of flops.
(2) When you steal, you won't be getting much at all. Just the 30 or 45 chips that are in the pot.
(3) You can become a victim to a reraise and either not get to see a pot with your marginal hand, or put more chips in than you really needed to in order to see a flop.
As blinds start increasing, players will naturally tighten up and you will begin to approach the bubble. This is where you need to identify the players who are not defending their blinds, and raise nearly any hand in good position first in. Your goal should be to capture on average about two blinds per round through preflop raising, or continuation betting. Now sometimes one of the best things that can happen to you is you find an opponent that is 'defending' their blind. They call your raise out of position with a marginal hand. Awesome, a continuation bet will often take down those pots and your opponent will go broke in no time. Just be weary of betting those connected boards like 89T or 579. Sometimes a 'delayed' turn continuation bet is the best choice in those situations.
Near the bubble is the best time to abuse the short stacks. If you have an average to above average chip stack, you should be raising every button through button +3 that you are first into the pot. A good raise size is 2.5 BB's just like in hold'em. I usually wait until the blinds are at or above 200/400 to change my raise from 3 BB's to 2.5 BB's, but that is just personal preference. There are different situations where you may want to make pot sized raises. If you are on the button and both blinds have 8 BB's or less, you should make a pot sized raise with the intention of playing the hand through if the blinds come over the top.
As you begin to create this loose image, you can use it to your advantage by playing differently in other situations (other meaning other than raising first in from late position to steal the blinds). The best option is to play very tight in early to middle position, as well as not make any 'moves' with preflop button raises once players have limped into the pot. By doing this you will get weaker hands to come along with you when you want their action, and still apply the pressure to the blinds when you don't want their action.
There is no need to be playing dry JJ-KK from early position at all! If they have suited or connected potential than they may be worth a raise depending on where you are at in the tournament, but the most important thing is position, so don't get overexcited with KK23 in early position and decide to limp in to try and find another K. Save your chips so you can keep making those ever so important steals in position. On that note, never limp first into a pot when you are nearing or past the bubble. If the hand isn?t good enough to raise 2.5 BB's then it isn't worth playing. Some players, even successful loose aggressive players, have a style where they will limp multiple pots with the intention of betting almost any flop in attempt to take it down. I disagree with this style because it is giving a cheap flop away to other players.
4. Almost never slowplay. This is a standard Omaha rule for five reasons:
(1) Most of the time your opponent isn't drawing dead and you may end up trapping yourself. Then you may be the one ending up in the bubble.
(2) You are likely to get action from weaker hands or drawing hands (that are drawing dead) if you bet out.
(3) The pot is usually big enough to make it important enough to take down right now. Don't get greedy unless you can afford it.
(4) You want to facilitate your loose aggressive image, as well as cash in on it.
(5) Draws, wraps, or flush draws, may be going for a check raise semi bluff, and you may miss the opportunity to get all their chips into the pot, drawing slim to none. Most of the time if they see the turn card and don't make it, they will slow down to see the river rather than try and get all their chips into the middle.
5. Blind Play. Be aggressive.
In the BB - If you are heads-up against the SB and he limps in, you should be raising about 70% of the time. They will be out of position post flop and at a huge disadvantage, often with a marginal hand. Odds are they are looking for a cheap flop with a weak to marginal hand and won?t be able to continue much farther than the flop. Of course if they limp call your raise, a strong continuation bet will often take the pot down. In the SB , if it is folded to you, you should limp 40%, Raise 50%, and
fold 10% of your hands. And of course you will very often want to make a continuation bet, just be weary of being out of position.
All these variables are highly dependant on your opponent, so keep in mind what kind of player he is and change your strategy accordingly (against weak loose players you should limp and go for more value bets, against LAG frequent reraisers, you should fold more often and occasionally go for a limp reraise, and against tight aggressive, you should raise frequently but continuation bet less often).
6. Raise weak bets. Many players will bet a hand they think is strong but are really afraid of it being no good, so they make a very obvious probing bet with the hand. Unlike hold'em, they will be much more likely to throw the hand away to a raise. So a good place to pick up chips is a steal raise post flop against a player making this kind of weak bet. Their hand will often be something like top pair an over pair or bottom two pair. These kinds of hands often hold no value to a raise, and are very hard to continue on with against aggression. Catching these weak bets and making a bluff raise is a little tricky. You do not want to be bluff raising someone that "> scpokerclubkid@hotmail.com . More articles and videos to come later.
See ya at the tables.
",1] ); D(["mb","
Derric Haynie
",1] ); //--> is betting any kind of draw (and is willing to call down to catch it), so avoid attempting a steal raise on draw heavy boards. Obviously a great time to try this bluff is when you have picked up some sort of weak draw like one open ended straight draw or a small flush draw. And of course always keep in mind your table image and your opponent's player type. Other:+ Show Spoiler +
Evolution of a Poker PLayer + Show Spoiler +
Disclaimer and qualifier: I have played well over one million hands of online poker, and almost that many this year alone. I’ve just recently started to reflect on my career in poker, and I was able to find the points in time in which I really had epiphanies. I remembered that was a question that is asked in most “wells.” I was asked more than once in mine, and right now jman is doing a great well in HSNL in which people are asking him the same question. I’ve decided that I’ll take the time to answer it comprehensively, since I haven’t made a serious post in MSNL in a very long time- this is my Christmas present. I’d appreciate it if HSNL people read it and expounded upon it (and the future- most notably) and if SSNL and MSNL people would ask questions related to this thread that others could help them answer. The goal of this ‘essay’ is to expedite the education process of all those who read it indirectly.
(would also appreciate if someone who visit SSNL would link it there, thanks)
The Evolution of a Poker Player
by aejones
Poker is discovered differently by many individuals. Clearly, if you’re reading this, you’ve received it a specific way. This essay is designed to describe a successful way to go about educating yourself about this game (a ‘method’ that many of you will be able to identify with), the pitfalls to avoid along that path, and what you can expect in the future.
Although there are a variety of ways to go about discovering the game, including dreams of wanting to become the next half-witted accountant from Tennessee with a weight problem to make seven figures, there are specific channels to go about educating yourself on it. After many of you found poker and decided you wanted to get better at it, you picked up a poker book at your local bookstore. This book was in all likelihood terrible (with the exception of Super System), but nevertheless an integral part of your poker career. You learned about pot odds, or how to squeeze out an extra bet with two pair playing 3-6 limit, where the only person who can beat the rake in that game is Jerry Yang. Basic concepts, but fairly important ones nonetheless. Through these books, you learned to play tight. Tight was right. It worked. You might have won some money in home games or online- it seemed fairly simple enough, no one else was folding enough, so by folding a lot and only playing strong hands, you would have an advantage.
If you really got more hungry, you searched Google for poker articles, or read excerpts by Phil Hellmuth or Daniel Negreanu from their websites. For me, Daniel Negreanu was my most important teacher before I was any good at poker. He was one of the few people 3 or 4 years ago that actually went through some thought process fairly publicly, and I benefited greatly from knowing how he thought. To this day, I believe that if/when I play with DN, I’ll have a huge advantage recalling his thought process from hands I read over and over back in the day (without him knowing the information I’m using). These kinds of things will help the average railbird, and might even assist you to winning low stakes NL online, or even tournaments, but it’s not nearly enough to win online. Thus, you reach the first milestone in your poker career.
Milestone #1: Poker is not played inside of a box, if you want to surpass the fgators’ of the world, you need to learn to think outside of it.
Around this time you start thinking about things other than your cards. You realize that other people have cards too! What if you could figure out what they have? A novel concept, indeed, and one that many players have not come into contact with yet. Second and third level thinking come into the picture, and you get excited about poker. You realize there are all sorts of player types, and you should try to cater to the way they play (tight in loose games, loose in tight games) instead of imposing your impressive will of folding in an already nitty game, or splashing around with bottom pairs and draws when no one is folding second pair on any street for any bet.
You learn about Gabe’s girlfriend Shania- I can do anything as long as I balance! You likely overvalue balance, which in time you will learn to de-value, and then value highly again.
This is around the time most of us learn how to play LAG as well. When you learn the nuances of playing loose and aggressive and the effects of your image on the table, you are brought into a whole new world of poker. Everything looks and tastes different than it did before. Suddenly, you’re looking to fillet a different kind of fish- a TAGfish, specifically. You realize your image can effect others into making awful plays. Hell, we all see how bad people play against Poly Baller. You learn to play draws super fast- anytime you can get it in with more outs than you have fingers on one hand, you’ve done alright! Hello fold equity! Anytime I go all in, I’ll just be like ‘fold equity, fold equity, fold equity’- it’s a chant to the poker gods.
You make this transition over and over again. You get aggressive, get tight, get loose, get tight, get loose, get tight. People change their ideal style based on what is sexy at the time, and eventually settle on something that fits their personality. When you’re loose and losing, you blame it on the loose leaks. When you’re tight and losing, you complain about not getting enough action. The human brain is constantly conditioning itself to be results oriented and doubt anything that doesn’t work at the moment. We’ll likely revisit this transition later in our poker careers.
A note about discovering LAG play. It is at this moment that Grimmstar shot off from the standard evolution of a poker player. He moved straight up from this first milestone, stunted his growth in poker, and became a terrible, terrible high stakes player. The man burned nearly a million dollars, true story. There are other examples about players who left here to success- for instance, I think cts and jman had fairly instant successs at higher stakes. They were lucky enough to move up and run good, but wise enough to learn along the way. If you are fortunate enough to run good at 25-50 and continue to ask questions, study game theory, and be open to moving down anytime you hit a bad run- then you’re clearly smart enough to ‘learn on the fly’ and discover other milestones in your poker career as they come.
Oftentimes, the period before this next milestone is characterized by a great humbling at the poker tables. Downswings from playing too fancy and getting your ass handed to you by regulars will lead to low confidence. Usually a shot goes wrong or you just start experiencing extreme variance, running 50 buy ins below expectation in back to back months, perhaps. It all causes you to retool your game, and hopefully, have this epiphany.
Milestone #2: Playing the hand in the fanciest manner does not necessarily equate to making the most money.
This was by far the most difficult concept for me to understand. I spent the greater part of a year worrying about how loose and aggressive I could play, and checking the size of my dick every time I showed a bluff. I’m not sure at what point I came to understand that you could play “straightforward” and be extremely successful. I guess I could think of a few examples… I remember one time I was taking a shot at 25-50 on about a 50k roll, with a friend having some of my action (probably a quarter). I was playing straightforward, and after about 50 hands I was looking at my PAHUD and it said this player was like 15/12 preflop… I won’t mention who it was (not a 2+2er) but I asked one of my friends who played high stakes- and he said this guy is the BEST 25-50 player on the internet. How can he be the best playing 15/12? That baffled me.
Around here you will learn a very valuable lesson that aggression post flop is not the same as aggression preflop, and although they are inevitably related, they are not a direct product of each other. Some people like to LAG it up pre, and then a flop c-bet is as far as they go aggression-wise. They’re easy to float, easy to bluff-raise, easy to 3-bet pre. In general, their upfront aggression is strong, but their backdoor aggression is pedestrian.
(re: upfront vs. backdoor aggression. I’ve been using these terms with friends of mine for a while now, but I just realized that it might not be standard lingo on here. Upfront aggression is basically betting with the lead, lots of c-bets and obvious second barrels; Backdoor aggression is basically tricky stuff- turn check raises, river check raises, leading the turn without initiative, etc. Some players have absolutely no backdoor aggression, while I had been using entirely too much of it for most of my poker career- before the second milestone).
Regardless, once you learn about stats like WWSF and just general dogfights for flops that you know you both missed, you will have real battles with other regulars. A lot of you write posts in MSNL that say “Tough battle vs. reg with history.”
I call horse****.
Most of you are standard 19/17 TAGs and your only ‘battle’ with regs are “zomg, one time he called me down with third pair- an ace peeled the river, but he still called!” In most of these cases, it’s super standard without real history. Most of you haven’t seen history. I remember Ansky and irockhoes played a hand months ago where they got it on 4-bet on the flop with KQ on J high dry. THAT is a hand with history. Guy bet-calls AQ high on the river, THAT is a hand with history. Most of what you guys play is just crappy, obvious aggression, no offense.
As soon as I learned how you could play relatively straightforward and just add some tricks up your sleeve (when you image warrants you getting away with it) I instantly became a better player. If you all haven’t graduated from the whole “2+2 says I should be super tricky in agro” stage of your careers, hopefully you found this past section very insightful. The next milestone, however, is by far the most important in any players career.
Milestone #3: The realization that TheWorstPlayer is awful at poker.
Okay, that was a bit harsh. It was the most concise way to say this: At some point in your career you will be humbled. If you reach this stage, you’ve likely been humbled many, many times. There are, however, spots where you should gain extreme confidence. Times when the heavens open up to you and you are being spoken to by the poker gods’ themselves. Perhaps when you make your first sick ace high call down (or in Gabe’s case, your first king or queen high call down), or you bluff (or 3-bet bluff) the river for the first time successfully. Eventually, however, you will learn that not everyone on 2+2 is good at poker. You will realize that quantity does not equal quality and that high post counts are more a function of boredom than wisdom.
This is where you try to find your niche. All great players are not made the same. Most of us come from different backgrounds and therefore employ different thought processes. You realize that you also have a valid opinion, and maybe you don’t agree with someone like Jason Strasser on a hand- but that’s okay, neither does durrrr! Point being, not everyone can play the same, so at this point in your poker career you gain a great deal of confidence. Maybe you start posting in HSNL more regularly, maybe your opinion is well received; alternatively, if you get to this stage too quickly, you need to have a strong self-confidence to survive it. I’ve been trying to surpass this milestone for 3 years. Mostly, I was humbled by players that were better than me (at the time, and still) by posting in HSNL. I didn’t have experience, but I had ambition. If you have thick skin and an open mind, this can be a strong learning experience. If you don’t, it can be confidence-shattering enough to induce people to quit the game.
This is the milestone around most people in MSNL struggle- most, in fact, may never ‘conquer’ this stage. Most will find MSNL grinding to be satisfying enough.
(note: reading this does not mean you’ve passed the third milestone, you have to realize it for yourself)
Once you realize everyone sucks, you’ll start to see it everywhere. In fact, there are winning 10-20 and 25-50 players, regulars, who are very bad. They do most things as good as a 3-6 player, but game select like a 100-200 player, perhaps. Seeing is believing. Maybe these guys aren’t that good!
You see certain players playing a lot of hours high stakes- he must be good!
You see Dario Mineri’s Sharkscope- he must be good!
You see Phil Hellmuth’s bracelets- he must be good!
If you can get past those three statements, your chances of succeeding in poker will increase exponentially.
The final Milestone is one that I’ve only recently come to discover.
Milestone #4: There’s more to life than poker.
A truer statement could have never been written. During nearly this entire maturation process, most of us who strive to ‘be the best’ were obsessed to some degree. I know you sat in freshman composition class, did not read the assigned chapters the previous night, and did math problems with win rates and tried to figure out how much money you were going to make this week, this month, and this year. I know if you ever took the time to learn equity calcs that you sat in the back of algebra and figured out how much fold equity you needed preflop to 4-bet shove Ax in a bvb battle. I know you skipped your 8am chemistry class because you were up until 6am getting unstuck.
We all know that.
This is the moment when you realize that there is a certain burnout point in the game, and in order to achieve maximum success you need to play quality hands, not a minimum quantity. Here is where you will decrease the number of tables you play and increase your reads on the regulars in the game. Many use this milestone to better their social life, spend more time with their family, increase their exercise regiment. The fact is that many of us live unhealthy, we spend all of the time that we used to on athletics and our family sitting in front of a computer and reading a stupid website with ingenious posters like aejones. The more endorphins you can release through exercise or sex or something, the better decisions you will make. The fact is that this website, these forums, they feel like a fraternity- we laugh together at reef, we cry together at ddubious.
Get past the internet, get past the 45/12 on your right, and improve your life. Only by doing so will you ever improve your poker game.
In summary, many of us will cycle between loose-aggressive and straightforward. We will repeat this cycle many times until we reach a happy medium. We will second guess this medium, rightfully so, because it will be wrong. We will change styles again, doubt ourselves, rightfully so, because again we will be wrong. We will repeat this process over and over again. The best have found their niche; the best understand their place in the poker universe.
Cliffnotes: There are no cliff notes you ****ing underachieving sloth. Read it, I took the time to write it, so you can take the time to read it. Mike Caro+ Show Spoiler +
EV+ Show Spoiler +
Expected Value - is commonly referrred to as EV.
from here on in positive Expected Value is +EV and negative Expected Value is -EV.
Poker is a game in which skill will beat luck every time assuming that you play for long enough. While it's true that any two cards preflop can win any given individual hand and that luck is a large part of this game if you hold any aspirations whatsoever to beat Poker overany significant amount of time/hands you must learn to make +EV plays and not make -EV plays.
EV is simply what you expect to make on average with any particular play.
here is a simple example
Hero(100BB) has A A and raises preflop to 4xBB from the CO.
Villain(100BB) calls from the BB and both see a HU flop of 9 3 6
Villain tells us he has black Kings (he's not lying) and then raises all-in and Hero calls.
Villain tables K K
(disregarding how good the play is in this hand) what is the EV of calling knowing we are against specifically K K ?)
If we punch those numbers into Pokerstove we get this output..
Board: 9c 3d 6h
Dead:
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 08.3838 % 08.38% 00.00% { KcKs }
Hand 2: 91.6162 % 91.62% 00.00% { AcAs }
we can see here that if this hand goes to showdown (as it is going to) that Hero will win on average ~92% of the time.
so if we run this hand 100 times Hero ought to expect win 92 times and lose 8 times.
there are ~200BB at stake so Hero wins 18400BB the 92 times his AA holds up - and loses 1600BB the 8 times he loses the hand.
Total net win of 168BB/hand.
This play is +EV and has an EV of 168BB *every* time you make it.
It's important to note that EV and actual results can vary massivley over any short term period. e.g. if we actually ran the hand above 100 times you might win all 100 times - does this mean the EV has changed? or you might be unlucky and lose 25 times in 100 - does this mean the play is now less EV? - no EV remains 168BB per hand. Everytime you make this play you "earn" 168BB and the more times you repeat this the closer your actual real results will get to the "perfect average" of winning 92% of the time.
Once you have played enough hands (an infinite amount) your total actual results will equal the sum of all of the total EV of the plays you have made. The closer your total number of hands gets to infinity the closer your actual results will get to this theoretical figure. So in theory every time you make a -EV play and get chips in when you are an underdog you a "losing money" regardless of the actual results of the hand - and conversely everytime you get chips in when you are a favourite in a hand you are winning money. If you added up all the "Sklansky Bucks" (theoretical EV money) you made in the long run and compared this amount to your actual winrate - after playing an infinite amount of hands these two numers will be identical - and the more hands you play the closer these two numbers will get to each other.
Lets look at a more complicated example, in our simple example above we knew villains exact hand before calling so we don't have to put him on a range (which affects the EV of our play) in practice we never know what particular hand we are against when we make our decisions. This is a real hand from my database.
Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
6 players
Stack sizes:
UTG: $27.85
UTG+1: $24.65
CO: $28.95
Button: $23.95
Hero: $25.15
BB: $27.80
Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with 2 2
UTG calls, 2 folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB checks.
Flop: J 2 5 ($1, 4 players)
Hero bets $1, BB raises to $3, UTG folds, Button calls, Hero raises to $8, BB raises all-in $24.9,Button folds, Hero calls.
Turn: 9 ($53.8, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $53.8)
River: 9 ($53.8, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $53.8)
Results:
Final pot: $53.8
- it's the flop action I am interested in here.
In real life we don't know what sepcific hand we are facing at the point in time where we make a decision. What hand does BB have here? is my hand strong enough to call his all-in? and how do we work out the EV of this play??
The answer is to put BB on a range of hands - if we re-run this hand 1000 times say sometimes he has AA and we are a huge favourite, sometimes he has 55 and we are a huge underdog, he might also have JJ-KK, AJ,KJ,J2,52,J5, Ax , or he might be bluffing. In this particular case his range is wide because there was no preflop raise. Also we are not saying htat he will always play every hand in this range exactly this way - but that he isn't playing any other hand apart from the ones in this range in this fashion.
Against most of these hands I am a favourite, and against some of them I am an underdog. I have no way of knowing what hand he has and certainly don't have time at the table to put the numbers into Pokerstove so we just make an educated guess.
I play using the general rule that I should never fold a flopped set for ~100BB. The reason being that no matter the flop if we can get all the money in on the flop we are almost always a favourite to win the hand at the showdown vs our opponents range of hands.
So I happily call his all-in. But have I made a +EV play and will this earn me money in the long run???
Lets put his range and my hand into pokerstove and see...
Board: Jc 2h 5h
Dead:
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 78.7155 % 78.72% 00.00% { 2d2s }
Hand 2: 21.2845 % 21.28% 00.00% { JJ+, 55, AhKh, AJs, J5s, J2s, Ts7s, 52s, AJo, J5o, J2o, 52o }
(T7ss is included in this range to represent a bluff)
and the numbers say that on this wide range of hands my play is +EV and that calling his all-in here means that vs that range I expect to win ~79% of the time.
The actual results don't matter, as long as my range is accurate, and what cards come on the Turn or on the River don't matter either (as the decision is already made by then) if I make this play everytime it is +EV and in the long run I expect to win ~170BB everytime I make this play. As this play costs me 100BB to make I make a profit everytime here of 70BB, whether BB shows me JJ for top set or A 8 for a busted flush draw I still "gain" ~70BB everytime I make the play.
Whenever you determine at the table that a play is +EV you should make it EVERY time. If you don't you are losing money in the long run. Do You See Why?
Ultimately it is EV that will decide what your true winrate is, you can't beat it, or get around it in the long run eventually your total real results will match your expected results.
Closely tied in with EV is variance - a lot of people misunderstand what variance is and try to avoid it. But you shouldn't. The very very best players at poker don't care about variance and try to make every single +EV play that they can (this is the main reason why they are such big winners) Variance is simply how much your actual results can vary from the statistical EV results in the short term. It's the reason that a 20x buyin roll is recommended. So that you don't go broke in the short term making +EV plays that you lose in the short term because the real results vary from the Expected results. Variance is neither good or bad - and the bigger bankroll you have to absorb variance the more you ought to be willing to risk on a marginal +EV play.
Lets say you determine that a play is +EV and you'll win 51% of the time, the more money you stake on this play the more you stand to win in the long run. 51% of 200BB is more than 51% of 20BB - though in the short term real results will vary lots and you stand a great chance of losing this particular bet if you can afford it (have a large enough bankroll) you should bet as much as you can on this 51% shot.
As a final thought here is an exercise you can try when you next get a big losing session.
Review all the hands in the session and for each hand you play work out a range of hands for each villain, run the numbers into pokerstove and see how much you made in EV.
I do this sometimes and often find out that I had a +EV session that in real results lost me lots of real money. If most of the losiung sessions you have are +EV you are paying well and eventually real results will catch up with your EV results and you will be a long term winner, so despite losing now in the short term you can be happy that in the long run you're still winning.
(very practical considerations that drastically effect EV):
South Pole:
| The actual results don't matter, as long as my range is accurate |
The actual results don't matter, as long as my range is accurate
Your decision to call the bet is the whole issue for me and that's based on the range of hands you give below isn't it?
Here's your selected range JJ+, 55, AhKh, AJs, J5s, J2s, Ts7s, 52s, AJo, J5o, J2o, 52o
But IMO some of this range (J5o, J5s, J2s, QQ+) is not as likely to be raising all-in as JJ+ for instance.
Do you agree and if so doesn't this change the EV result significantly? More to the point how do you deal with this in the heat of battle when deciding to call?
| I play using the general rule that I should never fold a flopped set for ~100BB. The reason being that no matter the flop if we can get all the money in on the flop we are almost always a favourite to win the hand at the showdown vs our opponents range of hands. |
Continuing the theme of my post why do you say "we are almost always favourite to win the hand vs. our opponents range of hands"? What range of hands do you consider when making such a decision or do you automatically call all-in bets given the same hand and board?
Dickie Bets:
I really enjoyed this post and plan on trying it out on my own hands.
In trying to comprehend this, however, I'm wondering in your pocket 2s example. Doesn't you calculation make the assumption that each hand in the range you listed have equal weight ?
What I mean is, I would expect pocket 5s or pocket Js to call 100% of the time, and therefore I'd lose my stack 100% of the time in that case, but I could see A-J or A-Ks rarely calling all-in or at least significantly less than 100 %. Certain players might also fold an overpair quite often, maybe even two pair. In these cases, I wouldn't necessarily win his entire stack.
While it might not matter with a set, I could imagine that when calculating EV with an overpair or possibly 2 pair it might look +EV but actually be -EV in reality?
Am I understanding correctly or am I over-complicating it ?
DC+ Show Spoiler +
Razz+ Show Spoiler +
Listening: On Razz
+ Show Spoiler +
Microstakes Profitability + Show Spoiler +
How much can you expect to earn at microstakes Razz? How do you know if you are doing ok, or if your "variance" (read: downswing) is really you on tilt?
The Stud forum at 2+2 is a great place to read. The following information came from a thread there.
I culled this out of a few posts, one from a player who generously shared Poker Tracker Stud statistics for over 15k hands played at .25/.50 on Full Tilt. More came from explanations by poster SGspecial, aka "Dr. Razz," who is the Razz coach at Stoxpoker. I found this really useful, personally, for helping me to avoid tilt and stay on track.
After playing slightly more than 15,000 hands, a winning player:
* grossed $4979
* netted $ 194
* paid $ 193 in rake(if the player had rakeback, about $60 would have been returned)
This means that over almost 200 hours of poker, the player won $4979, and lost $4785. It's a win/loss ratio of about 52/48. It's about a $1.10/hour. 2.5BB per 100 hands.
This player, by working very hard, is now playing at much higher limits and making pretty good money playing Razz. But when you are just starting out, it's a good to know:
You are going to lose.
And it's ok. Normal. Necessary. It is: The Way Things Work. And you (and I) aren't going to lose a little and win a lot, we are going to lose almost as much as we win. Which is why we can't afford a lot of sloppy play - at our best, it's a very small edge.
How much "variance" is normal? According to what I read, at micro Razz, if you win 2.5BB/100, an expected standard deviation is 16BB/100. (Remember, this is over many. many hands - not a few hundred, at least ten thousand.) At this level, there is a 1% chance of a 235BB downswing. And that, it seems to me, is where the standard advice comes from to have a 300BB bankroll.
Hey, I'm a micro, when I started playing I had 25 bucks. I think, though, even a micro playing conservatively, has to have at least 100 BB to start learning the game, or be willing to reload pretty often.
I really liked finding this out, finding out my losses weren't out of the ordinary and didn't make me a horrible player. I quit worrying when I had a losing session and started having confidence that, sooner or later, it was coming back with interest. I know for myself, learning to handle losing is at least as important as learning how to play winning poker. And I'm pretty sure nobody is doing the last, without mastering the first. Having Boardlock+ Show Spoiler +
When I wrote the Intro to Razz article, I included a section on boardlock, but no real examples of how it works during the play of a hand. I (Seat 1) had this hand last night on Full Tilt. I thought it was a good example.
Razz ($0.25/$0.50), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.10 stud converter
3rd Street- (1.60 SB)
Seat 1 84) A___completes
Seat 2: xx T___folds
Seat 3: xx J___folds
Seat 4: xx Q___brings-in___calls
Seat 5: xx 5___folds
Seat 6: xx Q___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx 8___folds
Seat 8: xx 9___folds
Notice Seat 1 starts right out with boardlock on 3rd, after the 5 and the other 8 fold. The Seat 6 Q is a newbie overvaluing a hand and I guess the BI figured I was on a steal and had a couple wheel cards in the hole.
4th Street - (4.60 SB)
Seat 1: (84) A3___bets
Seat 4: xx Q9___calls
Seat 6: xx Q3___calls
5th Street - (3.80 BB)
Seat 1: (84) A36___bets
Seat 4: xx Q92___calls
Seat 6: xx Q33___calls
We always know for a fact Seat 1 is ahead. If we put both opponents on the best possible hole cards, A-2, they are still very far behind, especially Seat 6. If he has (A2)Q33, he still needs to catch perfect-perfect to make his hand. If he assumes Seat 1 is on a total steal with (KK)A36, A36 is also a great drawing hand. (relative to his) One thing I think new micro players forget when chasing draws is: our opponents are drawing, too.
6th Street- (6.80 BB)
Seat 1: (84)A36K___bets
Seat 4: xx Q92J___checks___calls
Seat 6: xx Q336___checks___calls
Here, Seat 6 caught a 6 and now, even though Seat 1 still has the best hand, we have to assume he is drawing to a better hand than the made 8. I think it's tempting to some players in Seat 1's position to take a free card here. But putting these hands through a simulator, Seat 6's draw to Seat 1's made 8 gives Seat 1 68% equity in the pot.
When I did this simulation, I left Seat 4 out of it, (except for entering his cards as dead) because Seat 1 has him mortally boardlocked right now. There is no card Seat 4 can catch that can win this pot.
River- (9.80 BB)
Seat 1: (84)A36K4___bets
Seat 4: xx Q92J x___checks___calls
Seat 6: xx Q336 x___checks___folds
Total pot (11.80 BB)
Seat 1: showed [8d 4s As 3h 6c Kh 4h] and won with 8,6,4,3,A
Seat 4: showed [6d 4c Qs 9h 2d Jh Ac] and lost with 9,6,4,2,A
Seat 6: folded on 7th St.
In the Intro to Razz article, I went out of my way to stress, especially to new players, why it's so important to be patient and wait for good starting hands. This hand would be completely different if Seat 1 had a brick in the hole. (Losing the hand, most obviously.) But even substituting an 8 for the paired 4 on the river, I would not have known where I was and would have lost at least two bets by checking 6th. This way, Seat 1 has a lot of control and confidence, knowing the opponents are boardlocked at almost every decision point.
It was possible that Seat 6 could have made a 7 or 6 on 7th street and was check-raising. But putting in the value bet when the equity on 6th is so lopsided, makes the most sense to me.
Microtraps: "Saving" Your Money+ Show Spoiler +
It says up in the title banner that this blog will have "bad hands." They don't get much worse than this. I expect to be getting gold stars in the Big Book of Good Deeds for posting this embarrassing travesty, but I want everyone to see what happens when you fall into the microtrap of not raising.
Newbie players, or those at micro with short bankrolls, often fall into the pattern of: I'll just put in as little as I can until I see if I can win. It's a really good way to lose. A lot of players don't believe that, that passive play can cause you to lose, they think THE CARDS ARE WHAT THE CARDS ARE AND BETTING WON'T CHANGE THAT. But betting can change whether or not you take the chips.
Here's the hand:
Razz ($0.50/$1.00), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.25
3rd Street - (0.80 SB)
Seat 1: xx xx T-___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 2-___folds
Hero: 9- 2- 8-___calls
Seat 4: xx xx Q-___ brings-in
Seat 5: xx xx 2-___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 9-___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 5-___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 8-___folds
I had it in mind to call and see if I might outflop Seat 5 and just pick up the antes. A fairly common ploy, not usually troublesome. But with the 8 in the door, I should have completed to get the BI to fold and put the idea into my opponent's mind that I had two good cards back. But I didn't. I was playing the hand because I thought there was a more than 50% chance Seat 5 had a brick in the hole. I just ..... looked at the 98 and wanted to get in cheap. Foolish me.
4th Street - (2.30 SB)
Hero: 9- 2- 8- 3-___ bets
Seat 4: xx xx Q- A-___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 2- J-___calls
At least I bet here. But you see how the J in Seat 5 didn't raise to get the Q out? It's a small bet street, I would have reraised, we would have cooperated, been HU. Now, though, as the J has called, I am wondering what he can have been playing, maybe he did have a real hand after all.
5th Street - (2.65 BB)
Hero: 9- 2- 8- 3- J-___checks
Seat 4: xx xx Q- A- K-___checks
Seat 5: xx xx 2- J- 4-___ checks
Here is the horror of it! Seat 4 gets a K to go with the Q that he called a bet on 4th with, meaning he must have two good cards of some kind in the hole, but no one, not the J, not me, no one simply put a buck in there to get Seat 4 out.
6th Street - (2.65 BB)
Hero: 9- 2- 8- 3- J- T-___ checks
Seat 4: xx xx Q- A- K- 6-___checks
Seat 5: xx xx 2- J- 4- 4-___checks
Now, too late. Seat 4 seems to have a good draw and isn't folding in any case. Seat 5 might also have a good draw. I'm going to end up calling the river, and I'm not putting in money when there is such a large chance one or another of these opponents will make a better hand than T9 on the river.
River - (2.65 BB)
Hero: 9- 2- 8- 3- J- T- 4-___ checks ___calls
Seat 4: xx xx Q- A- K- 6- xx___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 2- J- 4- 4- xx___calls
I was so sorry to see the 4. Someone was going to bet, and now, with the made 9, I was going to call.
This is a Poker Stars hand where they do not shuffle the hole cards:
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5.65 | Rake $0.25
Seat 3: listening mucked [9h 2s 8s 3d Jc Tc 4d]
Seat 4: showed [8c 2c Qd Ac Kh 6d 3s] and won ($5.40) with Lo: 8,6,3,2,A
Seat 5: mucked [As Qh 2h Jd 4h 4c Kc]
I believe the BI would have folded if I'd completed, and I imagine Seat 5, who inexplicably called 4th with his two-brick hand, would have folded if he'd had to put in an extra small bet on 3rd.
I didn't lose this hand - I gave it away.
Raise, bet, put some pressure on and you will find the old axiom: "You gotta spend money to make money" really is true.
Calling the 4th Street Brick
Post Newbie Play
Seven Deadly Razz Sins+ Show Spoiler +
Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy, Pride
Pope Gregory the First, 6th Century
November 1st being the Day of the Dead in many Western traditions, I thought considering which Razz misplays are most likely to murder your chipstack would be an appropriate topic for this month. With all due respect to Pope Gregory, I’ll update his list just a bit for our purposes. What is the same between the theological implications of “sin” and errors at the razz table is: making the wrong choice leads you away from your goal. Which is for us: becoming a consistently winning razz player. More than listing sins, Pope Gregory also listed Seven Holy Virtues that accompanied the sins and were supposed to prevent these errors if you practiced them. Lust/Chastity, for instance. To maintain positive focus, each “razz sin” will be accompanied by a “virtue” to practice.
1: Gluttony
Entering too many pots. If you are playing too many hands, you are using poor judgment in hand selection and table situation. There are hands you will play for their inherent value, three-card wheel hands, for the most part. But there are also hands to play for their relative value, smooth three-card 9’s on a board with no higher upcards, for instance. There are also hands you will lay down, both before and after you have entered the pot.
You will lay down (58)7 on a J A 4 T (58)7 2 A 3 board where the early position ace completes and the 4 raises. The hand is dead already, don’t play it and kill off any more of your chips than your ante.
If the board looks like this: J (58)7 A 4 T 2 A 3, and you have called or completed-in, and that ace raises and is reraised, you are still folding. Don’t try and justify bad choices with “pot odds.”
Observant Patience overcomes this error. You don't correct playing too loosely by waiting around, barely paying attention, for a three-card 7 and playing it; but by watching for opportunities to play hands with real value in board-supportive situations. Discard the rest.
2: Wrath
Defending the Bring-In too often, too marginally or against a completer and a caller. Players tend to do this because they have an emotional, angry response to those they think are trying to steal. Bring-in defense is reasonable when you have two very good hole cards (42)K and the completer has the last small card showing and is likely to be completing with a marginal, possibly worse, hand. Even if your completer has (97)5 against your (42)K, you are only about 35% to win the hand by the river. And you will not get to a significant portion of those rivers because you will be forced to lay down your (42)KJ to your opponent’s (97)57 about 25% of the time.
When you have two players in the pot before you, even if the first attempted an out-of-position steal, the second player must be given credit for a hand. Now you are up against two players and you are in the worst possible strategic position with your worst card up. Don’t get so irritated when someone seems to constantly be stealing that you defend too often, against two players, or with too marginal a holding.
Balance trumps Wrath. Remembering that you also steal and take your share of the chips, helps you maintain perspective. Taking a good risk, a choice based on balancing the likelihood the player has a brick or two in the hole with perhaps a (23)Q where your 2 and 3 are paired, gives you a better chance of taking down the stealer and encouraging him to mend his ways.
3: Sloth
Sloth can be defined as doing the bare minimum. In Razz, betting the bare minimum on 3rd Street is a serious error committed by players at every limit and level of experience. This betting aversion, the refusal to invest unless you have gotten to the safety of four decent cards on 4th street, leads to serious chip loss. You leave players in the pot who should not be there, get no sense of the strength of your opponents’ hands, give them no indication of your own strength and so give up fold equity on later streets. You end up not sure whether to call late in the hand in marginal situations because you don’t know if your opponent is betting at you because he perceives you as weak and might be bluffing.
You also leave yourself open to raises and reraises by players behind you who will assume you have a marginal hand at best and try to get you out of the pot. So, a decent three-card 7 you wanted to play cheaply, becomes a hand where you have to call a raise and reraise and is now very expensive. What’s worse, because you have so littler invested, you might lay down what could be the best or second best hand on 3rd, because it is common for people with weak hands to want to play Heads-up and try to get hangers-on to fold. All this might have been avoided by simply completing-in, or completing after a limper, yourself.
Vision negates Sloth. Being able to see the long-term consequences of your mistake (slowly dribbling away chips and potential wins) and the greater rewards you will reap over time, puts these early small investments into perspective.
4. Greed
Betting the river with a hand your opponent can beat with his draw. Worse, betting boardlocked to a hand he can beat with his draw and having him know it. You’ve made an 86 on 5th - (42)568 - but your opponent will not fold his xxA6J. By the river you have bet every street and he has called; you have (42)568K(6) to his xxA6JJx. If you win this hand you will take a nice, if unspectacular pot. Be satisfied. Too often, players will bet out on the river here into a player they know has a 6 draw. And that 6 knows just how rough that 86 is. When you bet out, are you folding if he raises? If there is such a thing as a cardinal sin in razz, it must be bet/folding the river.
This bet is spectacularly useless. He knows what you have, only a very poor player will call you with a 9 or worse here. He will win with any 8,7 or wheel card that completes his 6. He will raise you with any of those cards. You stand to gain nothing when he misses and lose two bets when he hits. In this case, "trying" to get the most chips, leads to the least profit. Also, by betting out here, you lose the opportunity to catch a bluff from some players who will read your weakness as possibly having paired or who just hope you will believe them. You also lose the opportunity to see his hand if he checks behind, losing valuable information about how that player acts with those cards.
Wisdom leads you to always check/call in these situations. Understanding these common configurations, analyzing the choices and possible outcomes, leads to the better action.
5. Pride
Refusal to fold. The classic case involves being on an out-of-position steal and having the last player reraise. You’ve been “caught.” You don’t want to admit your hand is weak so you call. Just like over-defending the BI, this play leads to a steady stream of chips away from your stack. Folding to a reraise when you have (J9)2 or (K7)3 not only saves you money, but it may lead your opponent to reraise you later when he has a marginal hand (86)5 and you have a premium starter (A3)6. Then you can flat call him and play the hand with deception and strength.
Another example is having raised or check/raised on an early street only to have your hand go bad and refuse to fold because you were the one who pumped the pot. This often happens when your opponent has limped a big hand and you’ve raised from behind and possibly been reraised. For instance, he limped EP with xx6 and you completed with (47)5. On 4th, you check your (47)56 and he bets his xx65. You assume he has an 8 or 9 in the hole and raise. Then he reraises with what is obviously something like (A2)65. When your 6th Street hand is (47)5694 and his is xx653A, you can go into massive denial and decide he might have paired twice, or you can fold. When the best hand you can make on the river cannot beat his probable made hand, slip away. Making a good call-down from experience or player-read is vastly different than refusing to fold when you should be reasonably certain you are beaten or drawing dead.
Refusal to fold also often manifests in the fear of being bluffed, also a function of Pride. I assure you that you have been bluffed and will be again. As have I. Just as we have bluffed others. It’s hardly worth noticing unless the opponent makes huge deal of it attempting to tilt us. Then, you get to make a player note and add to your fund of player knowledge that will pay you off at later times.
Confidence gives you immunity to pride. When you have faith in your own play, the momentary opinions of others become insignificant to you. Then, you will be more interested in how to use the situation to later advantage and what you can learn about the other player, than whether or not the opponent is taking some momentary pride of his own in your lay-down.
6. Despair
The opposite behavior from refusal to fold. The player folds too soon, unable to correctly assess the strength of his hand or his pot equity. Often, the player has overvalued his opponent’s hand and not understood the possibility of improvement of his own. This player rarely takes any of his opponent’s betting behavior into account and is so focused on his own hand and the up cards, the possibilities for the other player never enter his mind. Despair is a curiously egocentric kind of “sin.”
Being the kind of player easily pushed off a hand will cost you dearly. Learning when to stay in will not only allow you to win more hands, but will keep opponents' bluffing behavior to a minimum.
Action. Observational Analysis provides you with the information to confidently assess your strength and possibility of success. Note what has happened, make preliminary judgments about others’ hands, be ready to reassess. Take time on 5th street to ask yourself what the best hand is he can make and the best hand you can. Just because you are drawing to a T with (A4)24T, doesn’t mean you must fold if your opponent is showing xx767 and bets. Are there indicators that he has a brick in the hole? Could that 6 have paired him also? Even if not, if the pot is large enough and your hand live enough, in one card you may catch or even pass him. (A424)T5 to his xx7679. Take action prior to your decision point so you understand when the risk makes sense. In this limit game, one bet is often worth the price of admission to 6th street.
7. Ignorance
Very, very smart people who are fine players at other games, can be very ignorant about Razz. They think “chasing” is wrong when chase is the very nature of Razz. They’ll label someone who does it a “donkey” and lose quite a lot of money to them overplaying their own rough hands.
People who don’t understand Razz will often bet out or even raise with (26)58 against xx76, apparently believing this show of strength will somehow intimidate their more experienced opponent.They think any two wheel cards constitute a good starting hand, and don’t seem to grasp that with everyone chasing after the same limited pool of cards, having the greatest number of them to start with is an enormous advantage.
They equate A23 on 3rd with AA in Holdem or rolled Aces in Stud and will bet, raise and jam all the way to the river even when they are patently far, far behind. They think they are supposed to make a five-card 8 instead of the lowest hand relative to other hands. They call with every made 8 and fold when they don’t make one, not understanding that their ten high is probably good.
I don’t think I need to tell anyone what the antidote to ignorance is
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hoylemj   United States. May 28 2009 03:05. Posts 840 | | |
Table Mods+ Show Spoiler +
Full Tilt + Show Spoiler +
Instructions:+ Show Spoiler +
Tiltbuster Vid
Deuces Cracked Video on FT Mods
Wiki+ Show Spoiler +
Deck: + Show Spoiler +
* Make sure FT client is closed while changing/renaming images.
How to use Card Mod's.
1. Open My Computer to - C://Program Files/Full Tilt Poker/Graphics/Table/gregElements
2. Create Folder called - Originals
3. Move (Cut/Paste) cards0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and cardsmall.png from elements into your new Elements/Originals folder
(The cardsmall.png is used for the hole cards, in the hand replayer. Cards0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 make up the deck you play with. All 7 images are different sized.)
4. Go to the wiki page - download your preferred deck - you have to open all 8 images and right click > save image as.. separately. Save the new images to a new folder on your PC (Fozzy-10.0 for ex).
5. Copy/Paste all 8 new images, properly re-named, into the elements folder.
6. Restart FTP client and make sure the MOD is working.
6.a. If some of your cards show up as blanks, go to FTP Lobby > Options, and change your Four Color Cards setting. Tables:+ Show Spoiler +
How to use the Table Mod's below.
1. Open C://Program Files/Full Tilt Poker/Graphics/Table/Elements
2. Move (Cut/Paste) table.png for classic view mods, and TableRT.png for RT mods, from elements into your new elements/originals folder.
3. Download the 794x547 transparent table file below. Copy and paste it into elements and rename it Table.png or TableRT.png depending which view you prefer.
4. For RT view - Go to - C://Program Files/Full Tilt Poker/Graphics/Table/RaceTrack. There are separate folders for each table view in RT. Download new tables from the wiki - make sure you follow all the table links, until the table is in highest resolution, then right click > save image as.. . Make sure you rename the default backgrounds - to something like Table-Orig.jpg. Paste a copy of the new table mod into the respective folder (i.e. marble, etc) and rename it to table.jpg
5. For classic view, go to C:/Program Files/Full Tilt Poker/Graphics/Table/Backgrounds. Then same basic steps as above to replace/rename the images.
When clicking on a table image, make sure to click the "Image in higher resolution" link below the image to get the full sized version of the table.
If the table background already includes the table image (the case with most mods), you need to replace your table image with a transparent table to get rid of it.
794x547 Transparent Image
* Save as Table.png and TableRT.png and put in Elements folder to replace the Original table.
1x1 Transparent Pixel
* If the above transparent tables cause the FT Poker client to crash - try using this 1x1 Pixel.
Greg777+ Show Spoiler +
You probably already know this crap, but for those who don't...
I recommend making a copy of your graphics folder before doing anything, in case something goes whack.
Go into:
C://Program Files/Full Tilt Poker/Graphics/Table/Elements
And rename TableRT to something else, I made mine TableRT1
You have to rename so it isn't found by FT.
Then exchange the Cards file with this one:
(rename to Cards after saving)
Then go into:
C://Program Files/Full Tilt Poker/Graphics/Table/RaceTrack/Red Carpet
(or whichever color you are using)
Then exchange the Table file with this one:
(rename to Table after saving)
Then go into:
C://Program Files/Full Tilt Poker/Graphics/Table/Avatars
Rename SeatRT_On to something else, I made mine SeatRT_On1
Then make a copy of SeatRT_Off and rename it SeatRT_On
This will eliminate the active player's box from changing from blue to white.
Some multi-tablers may not want to change this mod. I did because the colored lights under the player's name when they are active is good enough for me.
(Seat mods: Table RT)
Deck Mods:+ Show Spoiler +
Table Mods:+ Show Spoiler +
RaceTrack Mods:+ Show Spoiler +
PokerStars+ Show Spoiler +
Greg777's complete Mods:+ Show Spoiler +
All transparencies will work.
They are named for their folders they go in, except for tables.
For example, if you looked in the Avatars folder and wanted to use the "SeatRT_Off-01.png" file, you would go into the following folder:
C://Program Files/Full Tilt Poker/Graphics/Table/Avatars
The delete or move the current "SeatRT_Off.png" file, then copy "SeatRT_Off-01.png" over, and remove the "-01", so it's name is "SeatRT_Off.png".
Then the new image will replace the old.
For tables you will need to put the image in the appropriate race track folder, ie: red carpet, blue carpet, etc.
When you click on the links below to download the zips, look for the link on the right side, mid page, then on the next page scroll all the way to the bottom to find the download link.
Files below go in:
C://Program Files/Full Tilt Poker/Graphics/Table/Avatars
Avatars
Files below go in:
C://Program Files/Full Tilt Poker/Graphics/Table/Buttons
Buttons
Files below go in:
C://Program Files/Full Tilt Poker/Graphics/Table/RaceTrack
Then you need to put into Blue Carpet, Red Carpet, etc.
Also be sure you remove the file "TableRT" from the elements folder so the old green table doesn't overlap the new table image.
Tables
Files below go in:
C://Program Files/Full Tilt Poker/Graphics/Table/Elements
Elements 01
Files below go in:
C://Program Files/Full Tilt Poker/Graphics/Table/Elements
Elements 02Mods on 2+2
More on 2+2
Even more on 2+2
Avatar Artist
Mod-Creating Tools:+ Show Spoiler +
Some Mod FAQ+ Show Spoiler +
*How do I install a Dealer Button?
Switch the Dealer img with button_3 in the table/elements folder. You can't make the button any bigger because FT controls the display size.
*How do I restore Transparency?
In order to convert files back into transparent .png files, use IFran with these plug-ins. Open the files in Irfanview, select "Save as PNG", then on options be sure the box for "Save Transparent Color" is selected.
When you hit save it will ask you to touch the transparent color, then the window will close and the image will be saved.
The little green blob at the bottom of the cards section is there to select it for transparency. *Where do the seat images go?
C://Program Files/Full Tilt Poker/Graphics/Table/Avatars *When reapplying transparency...where do I click when it asks? e.g. on a coin? You want to click the color that you want to disappear. For the coins it's the OD green background. *What about altering seats? For using boxes to replace the bulky seat avatars, make a copy of the "On" avatar and create an "Off" avatar by renaming it. For example, download SeatRT_On-01, then make a copy and rename that copy to SeatRT_Off-01. Then remove the "-01" when you put it in the elements folder. You also need to make a third copy and rename it SeatRT_Empty to replace the avatar when nobody is sitting. *Can you mod the join waiting list button? You don't need to modify anything. Just go in and rename the following two buttons:
BigButton_On
BigButton_Off
For active seat icons that go with the other text boxes that aren't highlighted, set them to "Seat_On" and the ones without a border to "Seat_Off".
*I want to have a different table felt color, but still use one of the backgrounds that comes with full tilt. In addition I would like to import my own background design, but not be forced to have the ugly green felt color. See what i'm saying?[list]The best way to do that is to make a table, then create the Table.png file as a transparent mask. so when u are actually makin the custom table...u make the custom table top and background int he same file.
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The empty seat images = 6.png in the backgrounds folder, not emptybox.png in the avatars folder. |
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hoylemj   United States. May 28 2009 15:30. Posts 840 | | |
LemOn[5th] - Hands
Play at 10nl
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I can't believe it! A first long winning session in 50K hands.
Yeah, I was losing at NL5,NL2 (thank you LP luckboxes, you know who I am talking about),NL10,NL25 and the closest I got to a winning session was the 300 hand one n my previous blog post.
NL10 really amuses me. I crashed and burned so many times before I realised that people are simply not folding their middle pair, no matter how hard I represent the overcard/superobvious flushes etc.
I still can't resist sometimes like here:
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I LOL'd : (read chat)
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One EPIC SOULREAD:
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Results:
Look at my number of sessions. Some serious table selecting was happening ;o
I only raise Broadway+Pairs+throw in some SC CO and Button.
I have limped as much as never in my life with AXs kind of hands, and with low sc too-no point in raising, high card value is what NL10 is all about, and people pay me off in limped pots (this is the first time since FR where I limp drawing hands, as NL5 is 200bb)
Non-SD: My Naivety cost me a couple BI. There really is no point in going beyond C/Bet without at least 8 outs
Winnings:
This limit is interesting, I have never really played it and at least I know what I missed- TPTK ship it ;o
And as I play for happy meal money again, I also had a lot of fun experimenting with gay lines (you know, minraising minbets and minraises, cc/cc/c shove lines etc.)
I might actually hang around NL10 for some time, until I have at least 80% of my session winning ones again.
The Doomswitch had punched big holes in my confidence and I couldn't avoid being results oriented (which I never was before) after another session's hard work was wiped out by suckouts/coolers.
BR Now: $760
Wish me luck ;o
Comments: + Show Spoiler +
Pindarots:
I've done the same and I can tell it works . I started the year at 2NL, went up to 5NL quickly and 10NL after that. In March I was playing 25NL and doing pretty well, but half March I started a long losing/break even stretch, which was really frustrating. About 40k hands had I been losing after that and I decided to restart at 10NL at the beginning of May. I cashed out $500 and moved back to 10NL with a bankroll of around 550ish dollar to grind up again. I got myself a DeucesCracked subscription (the $30 a month is just over a buyin at 25NL anyway, so it wouldnt hurt) and started working my bankroll back to $750 and my confidence (and game) back to a better level. Another thing that has really surprised me is my difference in redline compared to before. When playing with less confidence and away from your A-game, it really hurts your redline. When I was doing good at 10NL my redline would make me money. At 25NL it was about break even when I was doing ok, but when my break-even/downswing started, it really went downhill. Now I've regained my confidence and started again from a lower stake and my redline is well above break-even and making me money again =).
Now I'm at 25NL again and playing much better and I'm really glad I moved down. Moving down is a really good way to regain confidence and start working towards your A-game again. Plus that it's much more fun to be winning big at a lower stake than break even or winning a few bb/100 on the higher stake. It's one step back to move 2 steps forward after that. Good luck, I hope you can regain your game as well .
PplusAD's Guide to 10nl+ Show Spoiler +
Introduction
recently i have been asked by some players if i could give tipps on how to play microstakes correctly.
I know that there is no big secret to beating Nl10 but i still think some beginners here who kinda struggle with Nl10 or have big swings ( like 10-25 buy ins at Nl10 must do something very very wrong.
I am nowhere near the skill of many of the LP high stake players here on the site
but since i never ever had any problems with Nl10 at all i think this still might be helpfull for some.
I will talk about 6 max mostly but some concepts are also true for FR
Basics
First of all id like all the microstakers to be aware at all time what their edge on Nl 10 is.
----Villians call down with medicore hands -----
So what is the worst mistake u could make on NL10 ?
Answer : making a bluff without a significant read . Trying to make people fold when u dont have a decent hand .
Thats the worst thing u can do on Nl 10.
Its pretty obvious what we want to do then on NL10.
We want people to call our big hands !
We dont want to win every pot by making villian fold !
playing our hands
Preflop :
As a general rule as long as u dont have a significant postflop edge u should only play the very good hands.
like AJs + 99+ = raise AA, KK , QQ = 3 bet 22-88 = limp or limp/call
A few basic questions that i ll answer for Nl10 to show u some mistakes many new players who want to be good do
1.) should i raise with pockets like 55 from every position since i ve seen sakisaki do this at NL200 ?
2.) should i 3 bet pocket pairs or other stuff like suited connectors ( 76s) in position etc since from my impression this is what all good players do
3.) Should i coldcall AA or KK since i have the feeling people dont call my 3bets
Answers :
1. No- at Nl10 it is far more profitable to limp or limp call small pocket pairs and play them for set value only
This has 2 reasons !
- U dont have fold equity postflop and u wont hit sets often enough to make hit or fold play profitable when u raise every pocket.
- though its pretty obvious that u had a pocket pair when limping or limp calling and then go crazy after u hit ure set. But at Nl10 people still pay u off T_T i havent figured out yet why that is ... but you dont have to worry ... u will still get called all ins with your set very very often !
So there is no need to raise hands like 44 or 55 at Nl 10 preflop
2.) No- position abuse at Nl 10 is by far not that important as it is at Nl50 +
U can do it if youre good postflop
But one of the worst mistakes u can do at NL10 is create big pots without actually having a good gameplan.
SO be very carefull with position abuse at microstakes.
Dont apply advanced strategies in your game when u arent ready for it yet.
This will cost u a lot of money !
3.) Never coldcall AA or KK unless the Hand is HU for sure.
U never wanna coldcall KK in middle position ! even when u know all players might fold to your 3 bet.
main reason is 1st -> we have a chance to create a big pot postflop when we make sure we have a decent preflop pot + villian has a somehow strong hand , too.
2nd -> it would be a big and very costly mistake to let drawing hands see a cheap flop ...
I rather want to take the small pot preflop than lose a whole stack to a drawing hand T_T
Flop,turn,river :
Unless we have a read we mostly play "hit or fold" poker
This might seem boring and i can assure sometimes it really is ....
but we dont play micro limits for fun .. we play for money !
Again the main mistake u could make here is try to make villian fold his hand by doig fancy stuff ...
Agressive poker is not for microstakes unless youre very good and know what ure doing !
For a beginner "hit or fold" poker is far more profitable.
A big mistakes of the fishes is that they cant let go of medicore hands...
whe u try to do fancy stuff -> u become the fish at microstakes
Just let youre hand go when its obvious your not good ... never try to still win the pot by doing crazy stuff
So should i never position abuse, check/raise , 3bet , 2 barrel,3barrel, float,take insane lines and all the nice stuff ? T_T
Basically when u dont have a read
dont do all the stuff mentioned above ... you will hurt your self !
So how do i get a read ?
watch the game and take notes of the betting action and shodowns of vilians.
U should know what a check /bet /3 bet and the ammount he bets means for the strength of his hand !
U should know what type of player he is in general
Observe the action on the tables all the time and take notes !
many beginners make the mistake to play 10-12 tables robotic poker same lines vs different villians all the time.
This will result in a very marginal winrate and take lots of fun from poker away !
I d suggest to play 4-6 tables without overlaping and watch the action closely and concentrated. ( this is for 6 max )
It will add a lot of fun to your poker game and also develop your skills and higher your winrate
Also now when heaving reads u can do funny stuff like this :
http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/342461
http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/343707
http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/343033
http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/343697
I had not played the hands that way without reads
and here is another example that ofc since i flopped nutz would be played the same way without reads
but it still shows its very important to know how your villians play.
Do they play draws agressive ?
some do some not
http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/346661
proper mindset
Bad beats are a part of poker
Its normal to get like 3-4 ugly bad beats every 1000+ hands session every day !
Thats just part of the game.
I needed a long time to finally understand this.
dont ever let them affect your game !
When u allready recieved 2 bad beats in yoru session and then get like QQ ...
on a KA3 board. U continuation bet and get a big reraise ...
U must fold your queens ! no matter how much it annoys you that after 2 bad beats you were looking forward to make some cash with your Queens only to see an A, K, flop ....
Hope u get what i am saying.
ALways play your A game no matter what happend a few hands before !
hopefully this helps a bit the people having problems to get a decent NL10 winrate.
Main message -> dont do advanced stuff at Nl10
Just play Solid,concentrated , tight and simple.
There really is no big secret to beating NL10 with a good winrate. The Cleaner Session preparation+ Show Spoiler +
pretty standard. We don't mind when running good, but we get tilt when running bad. Before each session I go thru some breathing excersises and reming myself a couple of thing to be able to focus better while playing the session. This might sound a bit funny to better players but it has helped me a lot.
I sit down relaxed and exhale all air from my lungs. Then I inhale focusing on bringing the air deep down into my lungs, stomach area. I hold my air for a couple of seconds and repeat it a couple of times, while thinking about following:
- Just try to play good solid poker. Short term doesn't matter. If I play good results will show in the long run
- play strong in position and carefull out of position
- play big pots with big hands and small pots with marginal hands
- plan the hand ahead (if betting flop, what am I gonna do on turn, betsiting .. etc)
- take my time when deciding, what does my opponents line mean, what is the best line to take vs his line
- don't keep on barreling a fish that doesn't know how to fold
- focus on good game/seat selection
- respect my opponents. Especially when they make a donkish play and suck out. On the end it's them who provide the $$ in the long run.
I'm not into any kind of meditation or anything. Only used to do alot of free diving and stuff, and this probably seems kind of weird, but has really helped me alot and only takes about 3min of my time prior each session. |
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hoylemj   United States. May 29 2009 23:03. Posts 840 | | |
Mariuslol
The Best Of Mariuslol (here)
From The Poker Mindset
(1)+ Show Spoiler +
Don't let shortterm results affect your judgement
- Be honest with yourself
- Train yourself mathematically, statisticly, make the neccesairy investments.
- Get the hands in. Look at those hands objectively and change what needs to be changed. (going to try n get 100k hands by end of march, then look at them objectively).
- Recognize patterns. Act on them.
- Recognize how different types of people play and exploit the mistakes they make.
- Ask yourself how people exploit your mistakes.
- Don't play scared. Don't be affraid of variance. Embrace it, as it is what keeps so many players believing in the idea that they are in a supposed downswing and not just losing players.
- Teach yourself how to read hands. (I'll watch more cts movies, master of reading hands guy, and ill guess more frequently on wich hands ppl are on in interessting pots.)
- Think about the game, read about it, discuss it. (I think about it alot, sometimes dream of it, talk about it to Erling & Bork, will discuss more, I read, but should read even more.)
- Ask for critisism. (Haven't had the chance to do that often, ill try in a littlewhile, when I played some more hands and they have something to go buy, i should write down questions wich pops into my mind when im playing on a sheet of paper).
- Give something back to the people that helped you get where you are at. (I do that, when i can, or I try to occationally <3)
- Play every hand the best you can, while not for
- Don't alter your play when you're losing. If you can not do that, take steps so that you can. (Ok).
getting metagame and longterm importance.
- Hide the view on your winrate and current online roll. (I struggle with this, i always wonder ,wanna watch how hands go, check if im up or down, and i play better when im up, and worse when im down it feels.)
- Do the best you can do, and never whine and bitch. (I do whine a little, to Erling, but not bitch, ill try and cut it all out, i also am prolly doing best i can <3).
- If variance bothers you, run simulations about standard deviations on winrates over a certain amount of hands.
- Don't play different when you're winning. (okz)
- Make sure that when you run hot, get the maximum you can get, in stead of settling for what is easy to get. (okz, i think i ran hot once, not sure if i did or not).
- Earn your money, don't just win it. (ok)
- Money won is money that you will inevitably give back when the rolls in the hand are reversed compared to the way you just stacked your opponent.
- Almost everything is variance, and clear cut.
- Try to get somewhere and keep track by keeping crystal clear records of how you get there, or failed to get there. (Im tracking everything I do now <3)
- Train your memory. (I'll do some investigating, find out the best way to train my memory, cos im not sure).
- Doubt yourself when you should and believe in yourself when you should. (okz)
- Learn how to recognize the difference between the situations where you would better do one of these, rather than the other.
- Understand the games' variables. (Working on itz)
- Understand position, stacksize, table image, reversed table image, pot odds, hand strength, implied odds, reversed impled odds, current state of mind, preflop game play, flop game play, turn game play, river game play.
- (Realise that every one anyone of these streets, one can be assigned a range. )
- Gather information, combine it, draw the best conclusion that can be drawn and leads to the best mathematical decision.
- Realise that a mathematical equation with many different variables of which most are intervals, and not set numbers, is always going to lead to different answers. Learn how these variables interact with eachother. See the patterns.
- Ask yourself why you do what you do and change it if you're not 100% on it.
- Be a perfectionist, not a person who whines and bitches.
- Become better and faster in doing these calculations.
- Realise that most of them are nothing more but estimations. Become better at estimating. Realise that your hourly rate is what is important at the end of the day/week/month/year/decade, and do whatever you can do make it a better hourly rate.
- Embrace variance. Take the initiative.
- Realise that almost all good players worked very hard to get to where they are.
- Don't ask someone to do something for you if you can do it yourself.
- Search for valuable input, because it is out there. (Im doing it!! Watching vods, reading, playing, nagging on Erik)
- Don't expect it to come to you. If it does, see it as variance, and realise that if you really want to achieve something, at one point or another, you have to do it yourself. Only
- Only play with the right mindset.
- Don't lie to yourself about downswings, upswings, winrates, level of play.
- Don't compare yourself to a fish, compare yourself to someone that is better than you. (I'll stop thinking im Odbjørn's level)
- Don't always be happy with what you have, and if you are, don't let that stop you from digging deeper, going further.
- Happy does not and should never mean the same as currently inactive.
- These little mental changes, such as taking a positive result as an encouragement and trying harder and try to become better, in stead of standing still because you are happy, and thus wasting your time instead of doing all you can do, at the end of the day, when added up, create the difference between a winner, a loser, and bigger winner.
- The big things are mostly common knowledge, and should be known, but are also almost always just a form of variance, something you can not control.
- It's the small things, changes in attitude, in actual play, that define your winrate.
- Realise that you can win 5 and run bad. Realise that you can drop 5 and play great.
- Know the difference between negative and positive variance
- Know the difference between playing good and bad, and not only the parts that are very clear cut, but also the tiny, subtle things, which at the end of the day are so much more important.
- When you can, table select. Don't let your ego get in the way of things.
- Force yourself to have a good work ethic. (Hard, but trying, I'm so used to being sick, sleeping, or being a Zombie on wow for tons of years, hehe. Yeah I know, excuses excuses!!! Grrrowl)
- Force yourself to be good for the game, and generate action.
- Be polite, and friendly to your opponents. If you do not have the discipline to do this, because of some short term thing that happened, you probably do not have the discipline to be a good poker player, and you probably didn't remember anything of what you should focus on.
- Work hard.
- Train your work ethic, your endurance, your motivation, your precision, your mental thoughness, your ability to focus.
- Don't play for money, or a winrate. Play for a higher goal. Set one for yourself. Every time you sit down at a poker table, know why you are there and what your objective is.
- Realise that the fact that you do not understand a certain play, does not always mean it was stupid, but can just as often mean you got outplayed and in a way that is so blatant that you do not even know it happened. Analyze. Interpret. Try your hardest.
- Think before you act. Don't tell yourself that you thought before you acted when you did not. (Oops!! I neeeever done that!!)
- Get to know yourself as precisely as you can. (I know myself very well, masturbated a lot)
- Get to know the game as much as you can.
- Know why you did what you did and what other options you had. Never let the variables which affect your decision out of your sight. Never let a variable that should not affect your decision in to your sight.
- Be objective, be precise, be analytical, be openminded, be smart, be hard on yourself, be honest about and to yourself.
Don't be a fucking fish.
- Ask yourself questions, in which the answer is already revealed.
- Be creative.
(2)+ Show Spoiler +
Understand and Accept the Realities of Poker
- You need to understand the Five Realities of Poker, but more important you need to accept them. The Five Realities of Poker are:
1. Poker is a game of both skill and luck.
2. In the short term, luck is king.
3. In the long term, skill is king.
4. Poker is a game of small edges.
5. Poker is a game of high variance.
Play for the Long Term
- If you are looking to make money from poker, you need to play for the long term and accept the short-term risks.
- A player who puts too much emphasis on his short-term results will be prone to the following errors:
- Playing to get even
- Protecting a win
- Tilting
- Getting mad at bad players
- Making rash changes to his game
Emphasize Correct Decisions over Making Money
- The big advantage of playing poker for the long term is that you can focus on the only thing that is important: making correct decisions.
- "correct play" is defined as the best play you could reasonably be expected to make given the information you have available.
- If you make correct decisions, your short-term results are irrelevant as you will make money in the long term.
Desensitize Yourself to Money
- It is difficult to make correct decisions at the table if you are scared to lose the money in front of you.
- You could fall into a number of traps by playing scared:
- Not protecting your hand properly
- Not value betting your good hands enough
- Playing too tight
- Not calling enough in big bet poker
- Not bluffing enough
- Two factors tend to contribute to how likely you are to play scared:
1. How strong is your bankroll?
2. What is your attitude to money?
Leave your Ego at the Door
- Your ego may lead you into several traps at the table, the following eight being the most common:
1. You might call bets that you shouldn't.
2. You might allow a personal feud to cloud or override your judgment.
3. You are likely to try too hard to get even.
4. You might play in games you can't beat.
5. You might make plays to impress your opponents.
6. You might not drop down a limit when you should.
7. You could inadvertently give away information to your opponents.
8. You might scare away players who you would rather stay.
Remove All Emotion from Decisions
- Many players let emotion affect their poker decisions, yet emotions should have no impact whatsoever on the decisionmaking process.
- Emotions can cause you to make sub-optimal plays that you would not otherwise make.
- Many types of emotions can affect your game such as anger, frustration, misery, fear, happiness, pity, pride and nervousness.
- A poker player has two defenses against his emotions:
1. Do not play when you are in an emotional state that may cause your play to suffer.
2. Acknowledge your emotions, but don't allow them to affect your decisions.
Dedicate Yourself to a continuous cycle of Analysis and improvement
- In order to ensure long-term success at poker, you must commit to an ongoing program of analysis and improvement.
- If you stop learning at poker, not noly will you not improve, but your game is likely to regress.
- There are many reasons why long-time players might become less keen on learning over time, including:
- Complacency
- Illusions of mastery
- Loss of enthusiasm
- Stagnation
- Top players may disagree on many things, but the one thing thta they will voice resounding agreement on is that they are still learning.
Overcoming Your Instincts
Actions and Reactions
- In poker, the link between action and reaction (or in this case, between decision and results) can be difficult to identify.
- Just because you are winning does not mean you are playing well, and just because you are losing does not mean you are playing badly.
- In poker, the laws of action and reaction do apply, but in a very different way than in everyday life. The results of your actions will be extremely volatile in the short term to the point where they are almost not worth worrying about.
- Make sure that when you make a link between poker play and its results, you are looking at the result of many, many trials.
Setting Goals
- Broadly speaking, setting poker goals for yourself can be good, but they should never be monetary targets. There are three important reasons why:
1. You have limited power to achieve monetary goals.
2. Conclusions are difficult to draw when you miss a monetary target.
3. Monetary targets detract from your true goal (making correct decisions).
- Setting goals in poker is important, but they should fulfill two important criteria:
1. You need to have the power to directly achieve the goal
2. The goal must not conflict with or detract from your ultimate aim of making the best decision as often as possible.
Is "Average" Acceptable?
- If you are an average player at poker, then you are losing money. Poker is one endavour where average is simply not good enough.
Risk Aversion
- No matter what attitude a poker player has toward risk in his everyday life, he must adopt a risk-neutral attitude when sitting at the poker table.
- A player who tries to play poker in a risk-averse manner may be prone to the following:
- Chasing opponents out of pots too often
- Not value betting enough
- Playing in less-profitable games
Greed
- When playing poker, you need to get rid of all pretenses that greed is a bad thing. Greed is not only acceptable when playing poker, it is vital.
Woolly thinking
- Woolly thinking is any line of thought that contains a logical flaw - any deduction that, when you break it down, does not make sense. The problem when playing poker is that every bit of woolly thinking will cost you money.
- Some types of woolly thinking in poker include:
- Considering irrelevant variables
- Misunderstanding probability
- Results-based thinking
- Spurious regression
- Acting on principle
- Superstition
Summary
- It is important that you break out of the pre-programmed thinking patterns and develop a new kind of intuition that we call the Six Truths of Poker Intuition:
1. Actions and reactions are only tenuously linked.
2. Setting short-term monetary goals is counter-productive.
3. Average is not an acceptable standard in poker.
4. Risk neutrality is the only acceptable attitude to risk.
5. Greed is good.
6. Clear logical thought is required. (3) + Show Spoiler +
Essential Attitudes for Poker Success
- The hands that have a big emotilnal impact are those where you lose a big pot.
What happens When You Lose a Big Pot?
- How much losing a large pot affects you depends on several factors, including:
- How big the pot is
- How good you felt your chances were of winning the pot
- How you lost the pot
- How your session or recent results have been going
- Whether it is in a tournament or cash game
- How adequately bankrolled you are
- Your attitude
- When you look at all of these factors combined, you can see why it is difficult for many players to tune out their emotions completely.
- Fortunately, what is really important is not how much losing a big pot affects you emotionally, but how it affects your play.
- Beware of the following pitfalls that may snare a player who has recently lost a big pot:
- Berating your opponent
- playing the next hand badly
- Playing badly in similar situations in the future
- Tilt
Reaction to losing a Big Pot
- There are four stages in how players react to losing a big pot:
1. Anger
2. Frustration
3. Acceptance
4. Indifference
- Each stage represents a better reaction than the last.
- Players at later stages will be better able to rationalize the loss of a big pot and not allow it to affect their play.
Applying the Poker Mindset
- A player might read and understand the four stages to losing a pot, but still be unable to consistently react in a way congruent with stages three or four. There are two main reasons for this:
1. Emotions are difficult to control.
2. His entire approach to poker might be wrong and everything goes awry from there.
- Understanding the seven attitudes of the Poker Mindset can help correct your approach to poker, which in turn will help you to respond better when you lose a big pot.
- Whenever you lose a big pot, rather than focusing on your emotions, focus on these two important questions:
1. What does that hand teach me about my opponent's play?
2. Could I have played that hand better?
Bad Beats
- Broadly speaking, there are three ways you can lose a pot:
1. Bad Play
2. Bad Cards
3. Bad Beat
- The average player gets angrier over bad beats than over any other kind of lost pot. Some of the reasons for this include:
- Entitlement - Players with a strong hand will often (subconsciously or otherwise) belive they are entitled to the pot.
- Rewarding Bad Play - For the myopic player, bad beats are seen to reward bad play.
- Directed Anger - Anger is often stronger when there is something for the anger to be directed at.
- Bad beats are the best way to lose a pot as you make money in the long term when your opponents make mistakes:
- Bad play makes you money in the long term
- Bad beats keep bad players playing
- Bad Beats encourage bad play by rewarding it
- A good player will take more bad beats than he gives
- Bad beats are an integral part of the game
- Bad beats are a good poker player's best friend!
(4)+ Show Spoiler +
Essential Attitudes for Poker Success
Running Badly
- A downswing is a period when a player earns significantly less than their expected win rate over a number of sessions.
- The high variance in poker makes it inevitable that you will suffer sustained losses from time to time. These will not be rare, freak occurrences, but something that most players have to put up with regularly.
The Reality of Downswings
- Downswings are not an entity in themselves, but an observed pattern in results.
- A common error is trying to assign downswings properties, such as giving them a fixed size, shape, or frequency.
- Many players try to define downswings in the present or future tense. They are trying to predict future events based on past results, which is impossible.
- Unfortunately, the psychological pressure of running badly for a sustained period of time makes ignoring downswings difficult.
- Managing a large downswing is one of the most difficult things you will have to do as a poker player, and the penatly for failure can be losing your entire bankroll.
Common Bad Responses to downswings
- These are some of the most common bad responses to downswings:
- Losing confidence in your ability and game
- Making radical changes to your play
- Getting obsessed with your losses
- Trying to ride out the downswing
- Moving up a limit to recoup your losses
Dealing with a Downswing
- You cope with downswings the same way you deal with anything else in poker. You make the decisions that will make you the most money in the long term.
- Your decisions away from the table such as what games you play, what limits you play, and how you prepare will all play a crucial part in ensuring you come through tough periods.
- If you are not playing well, then your results will deteriorate, magnifying the effect of the downswing, which in turn makes you even more depressed. This cycle can continue until either:
a) You have a lucky run of cards pulling you out of the downswing; or
b) You go broke.
- Having the correct attitude toward your bankroll and your win rate when you are running well will help you maintain that attitude when things inevitably go bad.
Staying in Control
- There are two things to concentrate your energies on during a downswing: Improving your game and avoiding tilt.
- The relationship between tilt and downswings is a vicious circle, and either can be the trigger.
- Some of the most common traps that can befall a player running badly include:
- Trying to get even
- Damage limitation (playing more defensive, passive)
- Unwillingness to gamble
- Breaking the pain threshold
Downswings and the Poker Mindset
- Preventing tilt when on a downswing is all about attitude. If you play poker in the correct frame of midn, you are less likely to tilt.
- Understanding the seven attitudes of the Poker Mindset is the key to avoiding tilt during a downswing. (I listed those in Part 1)
Improving your game
- Generally speaking, you should remember the following two things when you are on a downswing.
1. It is very unlikely that your downswing is entirely due to bad play.
2. Likewise, it is very unlikely that bad play is not contributing to your downswing at all.
- If you reduce the "poor play element" of a downswing, and improve your win rate, you will recover more quickly.
- While finding and correcting leaks in your game is an end unto itself, it also has fringe benefits helpful in recovering from a downswing:
- By concentrating on improving you game, you are keeping your mind on something other than poor results.
- By proactively improving your game, you can sit at the table with greater confidence.
Downswing and Your Bankroll
- If a downswing is large enough, there is a risk that you are not sufficiently bankrolled to play at your current limit and should move down.
- Unfortunately, players on a downswing are often bad at moving down limits, which can be for a number of reasons:
1. It's a step backwards.
2. It will be harder to win back losses.
3. The player might be in denial.
- If you cheat on your bankroll, you are risking your entire poker career. From "5 Most important things for crushing SSNL"
+ Show Spoiler +
- Isolate Donks
- Be Aggressive
- Value Bet
- Avoid FPS (What's FPS? first person shooter ?)
- Utilize position
- Valueshove
- Hand reading. Always always always try to put your opponent on a range of hands.
- Understanding equity
- Avoid tilt
- Remain disciplined (best for pvp yo)
- The number one thing I think decent ssnlers miss is river value bets
- Table selection
- Put pressure on regulars in position
- Adjusting your styles to the games condition
- Be aggressive on more streets, forget about pot controle when in position vs fish etc
- Don't limp
- A strong fundamental understanding of the game (Bleh, I hate answers like that lol)
- Get reads on oponent, write down propper notes
- Work on finding leaks
- Read a lot
- Put in good amount of hands every day
- Try thinking about poker all the time
- Talk with good players (Hmm, should get more on my msn, just got 2 good ones!!)
- Being able to sense impending trouble (I want thiz one!!)
- Maintain focus
Vital Myth on CRs
+ Show Spoiler +
...- Starts with, in general, people need to start playing more hands
- We play a lot of Axs
- also hands like QJs gonna fair pretty well (people usually don't do to well vs it, you gonna win on a lot of A high, or K high flops) and J and Q flops u have showdown value and you can flop a lot of draws n stuff to
- Squeeze!! (he thinks there's a lot of oppertunities people don't capatalize on) Also say that most ppl squeeze with to big bets, rather make it a bit smaller
- Call IP vs nits!! (almost with any two, 35s, T8 blabla)
- Reason ppl dun get good notes, reads, see good squeeze oppertunities is because they play to many tables! Suggests 4-5 tables. People spent over a year same stakes because "it's not fast enough, they get bored" and don't take the time to just think and play better
- Bet smaller and less frequently (most ppl just play their own card, and dun care how you bet) People don't bluff and hero call as much as you think they do. He feels people bet to large, too hard when they got the board crushed.
- Induce bluff ?? (If we think our oponent is not capable of making bluffs, we wanna bet smaller) Try very hard to induce those 1 barrel bluffs ppl love to do
- Big confusion-spews! Regulars in regular, only spew when you do lines that makes no sense, or when they tilt
- 3/4 into the movie he comes with a bold statement!! 90% of poker is making read. And a discussion about how it might seem he contradicted another cardrunner pro who keeps pestering about betting larger, and he's been talking some about betting smaller, checking, but that's in certain situations, vs certain ppl, and same goes for the betting larger!!
- Recommends 3 betting more in position Arag, KJs, QTs so forth, if it's vs nits, maybe not so much, rather stay away cos they playing premium hands and it can get ugly. If you have read people play a lot of hands, then kinda gives up more, passive or a bit weak, perfect spots as well (Good mentality, as long as it keeps working, he keeps doing it, once it stop working he tends to back off a littlebit)
- Whenever you think there's dead money, attack it, try steal it (Take them small pots) (One of the most common mistakes ppl do)
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hoylemj   United States. Jun 01 2009 10:09. Posts 840 | | |
Notes
Mason Malmuth - Another Set of Quick Notes (Adjusting to a DownSwing)
+ Show Spoiler +
Classic Article: Another Set of Quick Notes
by Mason Malmuth
Fluctuations are a part of any poker game, and at times they can get quite severe. Many players would like to eliminate most of their swings and just win at the same rate all the time. Unfortunately, the problem with this is that the bad players would now be forced to lose at the same rate all the time (and absolutely never win) and there would be no poker games.
On the other hand, it makes sense to fully understand which hands are prone to big fluctuations and which are not. Now in close situations, especially if your bankroll is small, it may be right to give up on some of them. Let’s look at two examples.
Small-to-medium suited connectors: These can easily be big fluctuating hands. If you flop a draw and it gets there, you can win a very large pot. But sometimes it can be very expensive trying to get there since putting two to three double sized bets in on the turn in an attempt to make your 4-to-1 shot, while correct, can go through a lot of chips.
Small pairs: Many people think that these are highly fluctuating hands, but in reality they are not. The vast majority of the time they will be played for one or sometimes two small bets, and then be folded when you miss your set on the flop. It’s only when you flop a set, and the pre-flop odds are 7½-to-1 against, that you begin to play for big money. However, when this occurs, you are looking at a highly profitable situation that only rarely turns negative, and very few of us should ever object to a positive fluctuation.
clubdiamondheartspade
Flopping a hand like a pair and a flush draw, or a flush draw with two large overcards is simply a great hand. You will often be the favorite to win the pot by the river, and thus should play your hand accordingly. When I hold one of these hands and an aggressive player has bet or raised, I’m usually willing to go another bet. If I’m not the favorite, I’m usually a close second.
On the other hand, this strategy may not be advisable against loose passive players. That’s because if there is a lot of action, your hand might be crippled. Someone else may have a higher flush draw, and something like a set or top two pair can be out. So while these hands are nice, they are certainly situation-dependent.
One other point. Even though hands like 8diamond7diamond with a flop of Qdiamond8heart3diamond are terrific, they don’t occur very often. So, if you don’t play one of these as optimally as you should, it won’t have much effect on your overall results.
clubdiamondheartspade
Suppose you’re in late position, or perhaps even last to act, with a medium strength hand in a large multiway pot. To your surprise, instead of it being bet, it is checked to you. Should you bet and risk many callers or a possible check-raise?
Let’s get a little more specific. You start with ten-nine in a raised multiway pot. The flop is king-nine-trey and everyone checks to you. Should you bet?
The answer is yes, and it’s not even close, even though you might get trapped by the dreaded check-raise. The reason for this is once the opt gets big, it’s important to do everything you can to win it. Furthermore, in this spot, since no one bet before you, there is some chance your hand is best. If your bet makes someone with one or two overcards to your hand, or a small pair fold, and the turn card would have hit them, you come out way ahead. Once there are many bets out there, this only needs to happen a small percentage of the time to make the reward greater than the risk.
clubdiamondheartspade
There’s a good chance I have read more poker books than anyone. I take my writing and publishing seriously, and reading all these books is part of what my responsibilities call for.
One thing that has struck me over the years is how incredibly conservative most hold ’em authors are. Of course there are exceptions, but I constantly read advice that has you either folding when you should be calling or even raising, and otherwise playing much too timid. This includes not calling any bets on the flop unless you have at least top pair, to only playing nut flush draws, to folding a set on fourth street if there is a four-flush on board, to folding all flush draws and open-end straight draws if there is a pair on board, and virtually never raising with ace-king before the flop since it is a "drawing hand."
What’s also ironic is that much of this advice is coupled with play that is too loose before the flop. So now you get the worst of both worlds.
By the way, and getting back to play that is too timid, I see virtually no players whose strategy matches what I frequently read. Sure there are a few players who are too tight and too timid in spots, but not to the degree that all these authors recommend. Furthermore, there are no good players who play like this, and lives ones certainly don’t. So I wonder where their strategy advice comes from?
Some Advice from Ignignokt
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1. Love poker. I do. I'm crazy about the old bitch. She makes me feel like a genius one minute and a frickin' moron the next, but that's her beauty. Screw casino whores. Screw 16-tabling pseudo-pros complaining of burnout. Screw the table coaches with the Festivus poles up their asses. Anyone who isn't playing poker because they love poker should get the hell out. I'll hold the door.
2. Study. One reading of a good poker book is never enough, as evidenced by the newbie posters who complain that SSHE is "obsolete" for online games. They couldn't be more wrong if they frenched their grandma. Learning poker, with the amount of material out there today, is like drinking from a fire hose. I have to go back again and again to pick up all the concepts that whizzed right past my brain the first time (and second, and third).
3. Concentrate on postflop. Preflop play is like the bread in the sandwich; postflop play is the meat, tomato and mayo. Learn to push your edge when you're ahead or have a monster draw. Learn why you need to bet the river more often, or why you checkraise too much. Learn why "protecting your hand" doesn't necessarily mean making other players fold. And practice your hand reading.
4. Analyze. Go over your hand histories. Find where you missed bets. See where you might have folded the best hand. Your forehead will get bruised from all the slapping, seeing the obvious now that you're no longer in the heat of battle. Then come on over to 2+2 and post your most difficult hands - it's a sin not to tap into the collective wisdom here and get your ass kicked occasionally. And respond to others' hand posts; it's like an ongoing hand quiz, as well as a demonstration that a lot of poker decisions aren't clear-cut.
5. Work on reads. PokerTracker is an amazing tool, but too many people use it as a crutch. My average opponent at 3/6 6max is 40/12. So, let's say PAHUD tells me a particular opponent is 42/11/1.25 - what does that tell me? Next to nothing. On the other hand, If I know he raises any ace or medium-high king in EP but almost nothing else, and will raise bottom pair on the flop HU, I have a ton more ammunition. This will go a lot farther to helping you in hand reading, too.
6. Watch games you're not playing in. That means both hands you fold PF and games you're not sitting down in - a great time for this is when you're on the waiting list for a table. Work on your hand reading. If you're sitting at or waiting for a table, start getting your reads so you aren't going in cold when you're against these guys.
7. Get out of your element. The really cool thing about poker is that it has multiple forms, and there are some principles that apply universally. There are things you can learn from NL that will help you play better limit. Same with stud or omaha. What everyone should be doing is playing 6-max: it will help you put the AG in TAG. Play some tight games. Play some loose games. Play some games with 2+2ers. Do a 15 BB Challenge. Mix it up.
8. Don't get in a frickin' knot about downswings. They happen. They just do. Instead, take a downswing as an opportunity to analyze your play, to drop down and just have fun for a while, or try something different for a (see #8). And if it's really getting into your head, take a break altogether. There are lots of other things to do in the world besides poker. At least that's what I've heard.
9. Enjoy every hand. I know it's hard when you've somehow been sucked into the Vortex of Crappy Cards (oh, don't I know that), but there should be a measure of satisfaction in knowing you made the right play, even if the pot got pushed the other direction. Putting it all together+ Show Spoiler +
My poker career has been a long journey. I started out playing in an unorganized, blind-less home game and donating my paychecks online. After a 9 month hiatus from the game for personal reasons (moving/not having a home game/dating someone I spent a majority of my time with), I got the itch to play again. Since then, I've made an effort to improve at all times rather than assume I know how to play because I've read Super/System. I read any book I couldn't get my hands on, started lurking 2+2/SSNL, and most importantly started to manage my bankroll responsibly.
When I first started reading here, I couldn't believe that some people were beating the game for 8, 10 or 12 PTBB/100 hands. Even when I became a consistently marginally winning player (3-4/100), I figured the big winners were liars or luckboxes. Slowly, but surely (and switching to six max) I started to see my winrate improve. I understood where these people were coming from. You COULD beat the game that bad.
I should start by saying this: it isn't easy. When people say you should post hands, read SSNL, evaluate your play in PT, etc. they aren't kidding. Doing these things help build the fundamentals which make everything else such a breeze. It's comparable to a musician playing scales over and over or a basketball player taking jump shot after jump shot. Once you get the basics down, the advanced stuff starts to come to you piece by piece.
I'm not going to try and tell you I know it all. I certainly don't. Like I said before, I'm trying to learn all the time. But these are some things I've noticed in my playing experiences that I think are important to my success.
1) Passion - Poker is a game. You can beat it with a good understanding of the fundamentals. Like most professions though, those who are truly passionate about what they're doing are the most successful. Michael Jordan didn't get to his level by shooting free throws on the weekends. Bill Gates didn't become successful by writing software in his free time. These people were/are passionate about what they were/are doing. This doesn't mean you have to play 8 hours a day or be thinking about poker 24/7 away from the table. But it does mean you should constantly be looking for ways to improve and never accept complacency - especially when you first start out.
2) Bankroll management - I'm sure this sounds like a broken record to those of you who read this forum with any regularity, but it can't be said enough. If you are playing at a level you are uncomfortable at, it will be very hard to be successful. If you don't mind going bust and reloading, by all means play as high as you can afford. If you're scared of getting it all in and being sucked out, you're probably playing far too high.
3) Marginal situations - The more experience you acquire, the more able you will be to handle marginal situations. This can definitely add a BB to your winrate. However, as other posters have made note of, they aren't that important! If you have a hard time in marginal situations, you will save yourself money and frustration by keeping yourself out of them. Fold QJo on the button if everyone has limped to you and you don't want to raise, but don't want to call. It may not be optimal (and I may get flamed for suggesting it), but when you enter a pot, you're potentially risking your whole stack. The marginal EV you gain playing the hand isn't worth the risk if you'll get stacked a bunch when you hit top pair.
4) Participate on the board! - Post hands. Reply in other hands. Sign up for a session review (I highly recommend this). Do something. The more you challenge yourself to critically think about the game, the easier decisions will come to you at the table.
5) Stay humble - I don't know how many times I started my own downswing by getting to cocky. Sure, we want to play as many hands against the fish as much as we can, but (and this goes with point 3) that doesn't mean we should be putting ourselves into super marginal positions. Playing ATo from UTG is trouble for most everyone. Don't let an upswing twist your head into thinking otherwise.
These are the things that have led me to becoming a winning player. Finding Two Plus Two kickstarted all of it. Just the fact that you are here is a great start. Keep learning and don't be afraid to make mistakes!
Also, if anyone would like to discuss hands, poker, life, politics, etc. AIM me at MikeyPatriot. Classes of mistakes+ Show Spoiler +
The question was basically to establish, in a way, where we get money from in poker. Do we make more money from our opponent making a mistake (Read: a -EV decision) or from us getting all our money in as a decent favourite.
Im sure this might not be too interesting for some, but me and paul thought it was intersting to know the maths surrounding the game.
So heres the situation he gave me: you have 500 left in your stack, and so does villain and there is 200 in the pot (we are on the flop), he then bets 100, and you push for 400 more. You have an overpair and he has a FD and is a 2:1 dog. So he can call here and he has not made a -EV decision.
Lets say, that you can see that he has a FD and you also know that he might call a bet (that is pot odds -EV) on the turn even if he misses, but not a PSB+
You will obv not pay him off at all if he hits, as you know what he has.
So my question is, is it better to push on the flop, or to wait till the turn? What is the amount he has to call on the turn for pushing the flop and calling flop and betting turn to be the same EV wise? And lastly, what, if anything, does this tell us about whats more important: "an opponent making a -EV decision" vs. "getting a lot of money in as a fave"?
thanks
dan
Isura:
| The question was basically to establish, in a way, where we get money from in poker. Do we make more money from our opponent making a mistake (Read: a -EV decision) or from us getting all our money in as a decent favourite. |
Interesting question, and I think both statements are very related. I mistake will generally result in a -EV situation. Generally when you get the money in good you have forced a mistake, but it's a mistake in the FTOP sense. Opponents will (should) make calls against your range, so they will sometimes be correct even though you're ahead a particular time.
The way I think about it is this: Think of your opponents weaknesses and try to induce them into making their largest mistakes as often as possible. It's easier to classify mistakes into classes instead of going through EV calculations each time (offcourse it is by doing such calculations that we gain an intuitive sense for when a play is +EV).
Examples of mistake classes:
small mistakes:
- making loosish preflop calls in position with speculative hands and playing decent/tight postflop.
- making tough folds with one pair type hands against sane oppoents.
- Most of the time when you fold the river (it's rarely a big mistake in NL to fold the river against heavy aggression, particularly for big bets when you have less than a big hand relative to your opponent's range).
- calling flops with less than odds (with marginal implied odds) with drawing hands. This is obviously less of a mistake when in position.
- stabbing at too many small/unraised pots.
Medium sized mistakes:
- Calling too much preflop OOP and playing "fit or fold" on the flop.
- Calling the turn with insufficient implied odds, especially when OOP.
- Calling preflop reraises with too many speculative or dominated hands.
- Giving tight players too much action with one pair.
- Bluffing (before the river) too much against loose players. Note that bluffing rivers against these players isn't as bad since they are often on missed draws or extremely weak 1 pair hands that can't call huge bets.
Big mistakes:
- Calling big river bets with marginal hands.
- Getting large %'s of your stack in preflop with dominated hands (AJ/99 etc). Offcourse dominated is relative to your opponents estimated range.
- Making big bluffs against signs of strength.
- Making big bluffs with no outs when called.
- Generally, any time you call big bets with marginal hands it's likely to be a big mistake.
Notice that in NL it is often a bigger mistake to call than to fold or bluff. And bluffing is usually better if you have outs (semibluffs)
In regard to your question, it seems like a basic math problem. Just figure out the 2 EVs and decide. But we only have 15 seconds to make these decisions, so I think its good to think about stripped down models that can represent a wide range of situations. Kinda like how math works. You don't need to think about what it means to say (2+2 = 4) or that the derivative of x is 1. It's because we have abstracted these ideas, and hence can juggle them in our brains and talk about them easily. Hand Ranges and Mult-level Thinking+ Show Spoiler +
I have recently made tremendous leaps in my game by readjusting my mentality when playing. This stuff should seem obvious because it is, but it's amazing how easily I sometimes slip into inproper thinking. A few huge attitude mistakes I fall victim too and you should watch out for.
1. Image should be a function of cards/opponents. Making plays to build/sustain an image is leaking EV. Just because you've been card dead doesn't mean you should start opening 78s UTG if the table conditions don't warrant it.
2. A hand you think an opponent "can't" call with can be a very different thing from a hand the opponent thinks he can't call with. Too many times I would correctly gauge the strength of an opponents hand only to end up cursing that he called against obvious strength.
Which brings me to issue 3:
Don't assume an opponent's logic is the same as yours. So you understand pot odds, great. That doesn't mean your opponent does. An opponent may make calls based on bet magnitude rather than pot size. Be aware of this and make your bets accordingly.
4. Don't substitute pot odds for hand ranges. Too many times I would call a 1/4 river bet when there is no way I'm ahead of 25% of villains holdings.
5. Play for EV, not EGO.
Plain and simple, poker is about putting your opponent on a hand and acting accordingly. You stand to benefit when you bet or raise hands that beat the majority of your opponents holdings at showdown (or will fold out their holdings that will beat you), and calling when the % of hands in his range that you beat is greater than the pot odds/equity you are getting. I am going to explain the dynamics of hand ranges.
First, I will begin on Level One:
This is when your opponent is only worrying about how strong his own hand is. Newbs, this is likely to be the game you're playing in.
Against a level one thinker, you simply determine what hands your opponent considers to be good ones, and bet/ call or raise when you beat the majority of those hands.
---- If they think 2nd pair or better is a "good" hand, than you simply bet or call when you have 2nd pair beat. There is one caveat, however. Keep in mind that often even for bad players, their range for calling a raise will be smaller than calling a bet or betting themselves. So when you are deciding to raise, remember that although a player thinks 2nd pair is good enough to bet with, they might not call a raise with less than top pair good kicker. So your raising range should lessen accordingly.
On the next level, an opponent is trying to put you on a hand.
It does not matter what your range really is at any point against these players, it only matters what they THINK your range is . Too many times I see someone ask a player questioning his bluff "Would you play AA that way." What they really should be asking is "Does he THINK you would play AA that way." Of course, we always care about an opponents actual range. There are several theorems that can be derived from this concept.
---- 1. When your perceived range has widened, it is likely that villain's range will widen too. When your perceived range has narrowed, it is likely that villain's range will narrow as well. Since a player thinks you are betting with weaker hands when you have a wide range, he will be more inclined to call with weaker hands. Use this to your advantage.
----- 2. You want your range to be perceived as wide when you are betting for value, and you want your range to be perceived as narrow when you are bluffing.
Manipulating Your Perceived Range
We can deceive our opponent by acting as they believe we would if we were weak when we are actually strong, and by acting as they think we would if we are strong when we are actually weak. It is important to note that different players have different schemas of what constitutes weak and strong play.
1. We may widen our range through several different courses of action. The most basic is playing the hand itself weakly. An example of this is betting when you flop TPTK, checking the turn, and betting the river after the flop gets checked through. Our opponent believes that because we have checked the turn, our hand can't be that good, so he will call the river with worse hands than he normally would.
2. Betting paired boards with trips against "Policeman." They think you would NEVER bet when you actually have trips, and will try to call you down or push you off your hand. Sometimes, acting overly strong may cause your opponent to think you are weak.
3. Table image can also affect how weak or strong an opponent perceives you in a given hand (and thus affect how wide or narrow their betting and calling range will be). After all, you're raising 1/2 the time and betting tons of flops, so you must be willing to dump your stack with garbage, right? Remember though, image isn't as prevalent as we sometimes think, and misconstruing what our opponent thinks of us is a good way to massively leak EV.
4. We may narrow our perceived range by showing continual aggression. We raise preflop, bet a 7 high board against a good player. They call or raise. We bet again on the turn. Now they are forced to think we hold either an overpair or AK (which may or may not bet true), and can call with considerably fewer hands than they could on the flop.
5. Or range narrows when we have been playing tightly. Remember this! Sometimes when an opponent keeps calling when we are very strong, it may be the case that he sees our range as very narrow, and can beat the hands he puts us on (caveat: sometimes they only put you on AK and will call down when no A or K flops).
The danger of perceived range (or image).
When you've been playing LAG, you assume people see your range as being very wide. So by this reasoning, you have to go to showdown alot more. It is very difficult to accurately assess what an opponent thinks of you, and harder still to think they will react based on how they feel. So you must be exceptionally good to play LAG because you are at the constant risk of calling and raising more than the opponents' range would dictate. You may think they are playing back when they just caught a really good hand. Or you may think they caught a good hand but are just playing back.
----The danger of playing TAG, on the other hand, is that opponents will be more likely to fold. When they don't fold, you're not really sure if they are pushing back because they think your range can't make it to showdown (like when you raise preflop and the flop comes 789 with a flush draw), or actually have your perceived range crushed. The former happens rarely, so it is not a major point of concern, and you get good hands much less frequently than bad ones, so you stand to make fewer errors playing TAG.
That's all for now. I considered third level thinking, but that would be hard to express and think it's beyond the scope of this single post. Please let me know if you think I have made an errors or have anything to add.
If you don't have anything to add, please feel free to give this a healthy bump with a "NH" or something so I know this effort didn't go unappreciated
Your Pooh-Bah,
Merc Valuable Reads+ Show Spoiler +
I posted this in another thread started by Fallen Hero, but after posting my original thoughts, i've developed a few others that I think are worthy of including, and therefore should be included....thus I'm copying my original and adding to it. Sorry if this causes you to read it twice.
First rule of reads - You have to apply any reads you have to the context and history of the hand....does it make sense what the villain is doing?
Example from the other day. I pick up queens in the BB. 4 limps to me, including the SB. I raise it 8xbb. Folds to SB (who is TAG). SB goes all in for 50bb's. Does that make sense? Could he have possibly gone for a limp-reraise with AA or KK here with only the BB left to act who is OOP for the rest of the hand? The answer is clearly no. He put me on the squeeze play and assumed I had garbage. I didn't, I called, and I stacked his completely dominated QJ. Whenever an opponent makes a play, does it make sense in the context of the hand.
A few really valuable reads to have on villains.
Valuable read 1 - villains that overplay TPTK
One of my villain's notes is "plays TPTK like the nuts, even with it's TP of 9's. Raised and called all in with A9 on a 7889 threeflush board."
I've used that read to stack a particular villain at least 4 times.
However, this has to done in the context of the hand. Conversely if you have a read that a loose passive opponent can't fold top pair, and the flop comes 7 high and he'd raised preflop with a relatively narrow raising range, you know he's not going crazy with TPTK...you know he's got an overpair.
Valuable read 2 - Plays way too agressively when there is a flush draw on the board.
These villains are great to flop big hands against in position because you never even have to bet or raise because you know they don't have the draw either. Example, you have pocket 7's in position. Villain raises, you call. Flop comes XX7 with 2 spades. Villain pots it, you call. Turn - blank, villain pushes, you call and stack his AA that he overplayed due to the draw-heavy board.
Valuable Read 3 - total donkey calling station
One of the best reads known to man. Do not semi-bluff these guys, do not threebet all in with a coin flip hand because they'll call, and you are only 50/50....try to catch your hand because they will call once you catch it too. They can't fold TP even on a straigthening flushing board. Value bet, value bet, value bet. I called a $20 turn bet against one of these guys into a $10 pot with a flush draw last week on a TJQK board. Rivered the flush, push overbet for $250 and he called with the ace hi straight.
Valueable read 4 - minbets draws
You've all seen these guys. They minbet into you and try to draw cheap, then they go ahead and call your big raise. I really have no idea what they are thinking...they know they can't pay full price to draw, which is why they bet small, but then they call a raise anyway. Punish these guys, and fold if any draws come home.
Valuable read 5 - minraises small pockets/SC's/suited aces preflop.
Some villains will typically minraise either small pockets, or sc's or suited aces preflop...they don't usually minraise all three, but lots of villains will minraise at least one of these. If you start getting action with a big hand on a ragged board or a board like 55K, you can generally figure they've got the trips with top kicker, or a set on a 852 board or something similar. It can save you money a lot of the time..or you can PUNISH them on a 55K board when you've got KK because you KNOW they've got A5.
Valuable read 6 - can't read boards and tell when he's counterfeited. Also, the converse "smart enough to know he just got counterfeited"
These villains are great. Flop comes 228, and they have 89. You bet with Jacks and they call. Turn 9...you bet they raise, you reraise, and villain has top 2...can't fold right, even though TT+ kills them, which you represent. They don't realize your 2 pair beats them. This is a great read to have. Good LAGS typically realize this but still can't fold. Example from above 982 though, you bet and get raised...think you might be behind to 98 so you flat call. Turn comes a 2, and now villain checks.....now you've got him. Start value-betting, he'll probably call.
Valuable read 7 - minbet-threebets monsters
These are great too because they let you get away cheap. Villain leads into you with a minbet on a draw heavy board knowing you'll raise. You oblige, and now the threebets all in with a set...you easily dump your hand (provided you have this read). Villain doesn't realize he could have potted it and gotten a much bigger raise out of you but hey...his bad play is why you are here.
Valueable read 8 - plays ALL draws agressively
A read that an opponent plays big draws agressively doesn't really help you much other than including the big draw in his range when he's raising on a draw heavy board.
A read that an opponent will play ANY draw agressively is however. Any ragged 2 flush board with him raising makes it easier to include the draw and not a set as his likely holdings. Same thing on connected flops like A78....makes it easier to put him on 9T or 56 and lets you know by his action if he's hit. A good way to determine if villains got a monster or not is to flat call his flop raise when OOP and donk into him on the turn. If he raises you again, it's generally a big hand. If he calls he's probably got the draw and that lets you play the river perfectly. Against a lot of these villains if you threebet the flop big you are likely to get raised all in and are then faced with a tough decision. I generally like to call their flop raise, and then disappoint them by donking a PSB on a blank turn, this destroys their odds and eliminates tough decisions on your part as very few of them have the guts to go all in at that point.
Valuable Read 10 - makes weak C-bets with whiffed hands, makes big c-bets with hands that connected.
These villains are really easy to float against with nothing, or punish with big hands. If a villain makes a weak c-bet into me I'll generally raise if I think he'll fold right on the flop, or wait until the turn to raise as that's always more scary and almost always gets a fold. Conversely, if the villain makes a PSB and I have nothing, I know I can safely fold and won't try to float because I know he's got a hand. This is why it's so critical that you always make your cbets a standard size.
Valuable read 11 - Does not consider pot size when determining the strength of a bet
Some villains associate the size of the bet in relation to the stakes as a strong bet, rather than the size of the bet in relation to the pot. For example...some villains think their $10 bet into a $50 pot is strong because it's a big bet for $50NL. We as a group typically consider that a weak bet...but if the villain doesn't, beware.
Valuable Read 12 - villain ALWAYS raises in the BB if it's a headsup blind battle and the SB completes.
This read makes you money in a number of ways. First you know not to complete with hands you want to play OOP to a raise, because you know you'll get one. And second you KNOW he's raising so you limp with TT+ and punish him when he does. After enough of these you can start limping and not expect a raise.
Valuable read 13 - Villain reraises light and flatcalls with truly big hands.
I found a TAG villain that religously reraises with marginal hands (AJ for example) but NEVER reraises with AA/KK. This makes him easy to play against because if he reraises you, you know your AK is good on an a K hi flop, because AA isn't in his reraise range.
Valuable Read 14 - Calls pot-size bets on draws on the flop AND turn, then either goes for the checkraise when it hits (or donk bets it, depends on villain)
Lots of villains (myself included) will call smallish PSB's on the flop with draws. Not as many will call on the turn. The ones that will call large turn bets are truly great buddies for life and worth following around. When you get called by one of these guys on the flop on a draw heavy board. You must make a PS turn bet, screw pot control, punish these donkies. Conversely, slow way down when the draw hits and consider folding. The other great thing about these guys if that they'll almost always go for a checkraise when they complete their draw, disappoint them by not letting them get the checkraise in.
Marginal but sometimes valuable timing tells
Assuming a villain normally acts in a certain period of time, sometimes something outside of that normal range can give you a tell. The most common one is the delayed call or bet. If a villain raised on the flop and then a flush card falls, and that villain takes an inordinately long period to act after the card hits, it's almost a certainty that he hit the flush. I can't tell you how many times I've seen this and it's been the flush. They are thinking that you'll associate their long thought period with weakness, but in reality it's strength. I generally insta-fold TP with this read and i'm almost always right. This read is subject to a villain that is only single-tabling though. If it's against a multi-tabling tag it's not as reliable as he could be acting on another table, etc.
Other Ramblings - Absent reads I'm typically very reluctant to call large river bets with good, but not unbeatable hands. I've gotten burned by this lately with things like K high flushes facing pushes and losing to the nut flush, things like that. Villains typically just don't bet rivers huge without the nuts or near nuts. Also beware of the full pot size bet or slight overbet if you checked the turn behind after a draw hit. This almost always signifies a whiffed turn-checkraise that the villain is trying to make up for. If a villain is capable of bluffing the river with missed draws and things of that nature, then calling is standard, but I have to have a read to make me do this and it has to be a very good read. |
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| Last edit: 17/06/2009 13:04 |
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maryn   Poland. Jun 05 2009 16:03. Posts 1208 | | |
this is some good shit!
thx |
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