Folding Axo preflop

How bout you ask your coach this question?

k2o4 is a genius i would just blindly listen to his wisdom

On July 26 2009 22:12 NewbSaibot wrote: How bout you ask your coach this question?

I'm not her coach, I'm her boyfriend, which means she doesn't listen to me =)

by limping your sb you're basically playing your hand for face value, if u miss the flop you can take a stab when u miss, but your opponent has pretty much any 2 (given that they dont raise when u complete).

You raise in the sb to steal the bb and to build a pot if he does call. Even if he does call with a better ace, he's going to miss the flop so often that cbetting the flop will let you win the pot, and you'll end up winning more than if u just limped. Ax suited is generally a decent hand to raise from the co and btn as well.

You'll win more money in the long run from stealing the bb with A rag then you ever will limping. Just from him folding his bb and also from him calling and wiffing flops where u can take it down with a continuation bet on the flop.

lololol talk about airing your dirty laundry in public!

but srsly

its better to just raise or fold because your hand doesn't flop well, if you flop a 3 and the other person bets, how do you feel?

On July 26 2009 22:13 acdawg712 wrote: k2o4 is a genius i would just blindly listen to his wisdom

I just have problem blindly listening to any wisdom...

On July 26 2009 22:17 Night2o1 wrote: lololol talk about airing your dirty laundry in public! but srsly its better to just raise or fold because your hand doesn't flop well, if you flop a 3 and the other person bets, how do you feel?

I will then just fold. I just wanna see the flop and I am on the small blind.

It's really, really bad.

It's a bit complicated why though and I'm playing right now so I don't feel like explaining all of it.

theres plenty of hands that are good to limp the small blind with, bcuz as you say, its cheap. but i dont think stuff like A3o is good bcuz youll almost never flop a hand you like. yes if you flop a 3 youre ahead of AK, but its not like you can profitably value bet it or anything bcuz theres always going to be overcards and then youre out of position. so with your pair of 3s, you'd pretty much be playing a guessing game if you want to call down (since we cant value bet it this is your only option of showing down your hand unless it happens to check all the way down which is unlikely in a multiway pot).

I forsee that this will be the first in many posts by zara like this asking whether what I told her makes sense.

On July 26 2009 22:20 zaragyemo wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2009 22:17 Night2o1 wrote: lololol talk about airing your dirty laundry in public! but srsly its better to just raise or fold because your hand doesn't flop well, if you flop a 3 and the other person bets, how do you feel? I will then just fold. I just wanna see the flop and I am on the small blind.

lol

On July 26 2009 22:27 k2o4 wrote: I forsee that this will be the first in many posts by zara like this asking whether what I told her makes sense.

I just have to check what k2o4 is saying is the way to go about it. I notice that everyone has different ways of playing their hand, some profitable and some not - I just wanted to know the best move to make. And this has been helpful. Like k2o4 said, I am sure there will be many more situations where I will be asking for advice from you guys.

If u raise and the guy calls and the flop is A high, i probably wouldn't be playing a big pot, but there is still some value to be had from smaller pair and yes sometimes your opponent will have you outkicked but thats just the way it goes. But if u are playing opponents that overvalue their top pair like hands you could be looking to win a lot of money when u do happen to see a 33Q flop with A3 when ur opponent holds AQ.

i actually think your logic is sound, but i dunno anymore. i used to be a winner at poker but now i just blow

when you limp, you also encourage him to raise with worse hands, but then again you're not defining your hand so basically you're just guessing if you're ahead or not when he raises in the bb. so raising in the sb makes the hand easier to play.

so basically, raising in the sb makes the hand easier to play, ie he calls you cont bet then shut down if he calls etc. or he 3 bets your raise pre and you can fold pretty quick etc

it's total fish mentality btw

but then again, its not 'optimal'

On July 26 2009 22:31 patmcgroin wrote: i actually think your logic is sound, but i dunno anymore. i used to be a winner at poker but now i just blow

lol!

On July 26 2009 22:31 SpeedyJack wrote: it's total fish mentality btw

I figured,just wanted to confirm. And I am a fish at the moment, so I guess it comes naturally to me to think like that.

I can pretty much never think of a time where limping A3 in the SB is ever good. But there are some situations where I can see limping Axo in the SB - Like say CO/Bu limp and I'm in the SB w/ A9o and I know these 2 never fold after limping but they limp a huge range, then I'm glad to limp A9o cause I'm gonna be out kicking them a shitload and I know they will make it easy on me.

Gotta remember we're talking .01/.02 so there's some room for this type of thinking. But A3o is never good cause even if you hit top pair you're always in a shitty spot. While A9o you can at least outkick people, A3o you pretty much never make money unless you get lucky and set someone up on a 33x flop or you hit 2pair when AK hit's TpTk, etc.

BUT - you have to be good at postflop play and playing OOP to take advantage of this, so most people really are better off just avoiding the situation all together since they'll lose more money than they win.

Limping A/3 from the sb in a multi way pot where your getting good odds on your money isn't a bad thing if it's suited. But if that's not the case and you limp it you're probably seeing a 3way+pot with A/3, now how do you know those players have stronger A/X combinations? What if the boards 3/6/10 rainbow do you really think your 3 is good here? It may very well be, but it's going to be an extremely difficult hand to play OOP in a multiway pot which is why it's better to avoid these types of hands especially at the limit your playing.