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Does TAGs fold AJ?AT on AXXXX?

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Mikae   Australia. Jan 27 2010 08:31. Posts 49
I was reviewing hands with a friend and we began discussing a certain theoretical scenario about blowing people off hands.

The gist is: can you blow a villain TAG 23/20 off TP (Ace) high kicker (AJ/AT) if you three barrel him in position when you are holding JJ/TT and its obvious no good. This is also on 100nl.

This is assuming that the flop, turn and river are very disconnected with no draws.

Firstly, its a raised pot by him in co and you flatted button.

Secondly, you barreled pretty hard on flop (3/4 pot) and turn and he c/c both streets.

Do you find yourself committing to the bluff and barreling hard on river? Is it viable? Do you think you can blow the reg off his AJ/AT etc by repping a set/two pair? what is your logic?

This may sound pretty random/dumb which is why its in my blog.

Edit: Forgot to say, talking about 6 max

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 Last edit: 27/01/2010 08:39

whamm!   Albania. Jan 27 2010 08:36. Posts 11625

lowstakes like 25nl to 100nl some regs i know (inc myself might find a fold), this is FR tho. dpends who's doing it really and how they time it.


Mariuslol   Norway. Jan 27 2010 08:37. Posts 4742

Depends on how the hand is played, and your stack sizes. If you're not full stack, you can't get him of top pair top kicker usually. If he plays less than 5 tables, It's also hard, because they pay more attention and might know a bit on how you play.

If he flops top pair, he will either check it, then re raise when you bet at it, in that scenario it might be really hard to get him off it, people hate betting then folding. If he leads out, and you raise on a dry board, many regulars might call once, then give up to further aggresion, and quite often they will give up there. Because your range is so narrow.

If you check where he's from, and he's from a non English speaking country, like Italy or Turkey, they won't ever fold a hand like that.

My 2 cents xD


Oskar_123   Sweden. Jan 27 2010 08:41. Posts 401

u're asking if a 23/20 check/calls a dry ace high board with AT/AJ as the pfr and you 3 barrell will he fold? unsure if I understood the situation right but if I did then no, there's no way in hell anyone is ever folding.


player999   Brasil. Jan 27 2010 09:01. Posts 7978

try

if it works, take a note
if it fails, take a note

cant go wrong on the next time

Browsing through your hand histories makes me wonder that you might not be aware these games are possibly play money. Have you ever tried to cash out? - Kapol 

salutary   Australia. Jan 27 2010 09:01. Posts 362

it should be, hero as pfr not villian?


longple    Sweden. Jan 27 2010 09:06. Posts 4472

depends on so many things

u have to experiment and play different vs different types of tags obv
and depends alot of your own game, ur image and your history with the specific villain.

poker will never be that easy that u can just play after a formula or a rule of thumbs always against everyone


Feiticeira   United Kingdom. Jan 27 2010 09:18. Posts 3047

why on earth are you flatting a CO raise when you have JJ/TT?

The weird thing is I think McCain will win this. Im 100% certain Obama wont be elected and you guys can mark my words - Sheitan 

lachlan   Australia. Jan 27 2010 09:34. Posts 6991

dont think he'll ever fold. if he's check/calling, its most likely because he wants to get to showdown no matter what, but his hand is better playing off ur aggression then value betting.. so ur probably going to have to do something crazy on the river like bet close to pot to get a fold. but i mean sometimes that looks even more like a bluff. so its gonna be hard either way probably bet 80%-85% to get ur best chance of him folding

full ringLast edit: 27/01/2010 09:34

Stroggos   New Zealand. Jan 27 2010 09:47. Posts 1117

a better way to blow a tag of their hand is turning hands like 2nd pair into a bluff. Check call with 2nd pair on dry board, then if they bet again you checkraise turn and shove river.


whamm!   Albania. Jan 27 2010 09:54. Posts 11625


  On January 27 2010 08:47 Stroggos wrote:
a better way to blow a tag of their hand is turning hands like 2nd pair into a bluff. Check call with 2nd pair on dry board, then if they bet again you checkraise turn and shove river.



this.

bet bet bet 100bbs most times people will talk themselves into calling


Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Jan 27 2010 10:00. Posts 9634

i dont get why would he be original raisor and not cbet an A hi board with AT/AJ and just c/c it 3 streets
that would only happen if you are an extreme lagtard that spews ssoooo much

yes its a nice theoretical spot however you must go throught different positions vs different styles
for example if he raises the CO with AT/AJ and u flat from SB w AQ and donk it 3 streets on an Ahi board with reasonable bets villain will be more inclined to call coz he thinks that you either have the nuts or air and he has TP with good kicker and also on some boards u could've been semi bluffing and missed
and so on


the cleaner   Germany. Jan 27 2010 10:11. Posts 3014

why would you put him on AT/AJ when you are holding TT/JJ, since you are blocking 50% of his hands ? AQ/AK are much more likely in that case due to card elimination. It´s not profitable to try and make them fold those hands. You should 3bet those hands from button unless he is a total nit.

give a hand example

there are no facts only interpretationsLast edit: 27/01/2010 10:12

genjix   China. Jan 27 2010 11:03. Posts 2677

learnt this a long time ago: don't try to make people fold top pair. they will surprise you

If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. 

NewbSaibot   United States. Jan 27 2010 15:22. Posts 4946

Well you would wan to see a showdown where he had top pair at least once to get an understanding of how he played it. I've seen people call 3 streets with AQ TPTK before. Pretty impossible question to answer based purely upon stats. The strongest possible line I think you coul take would be to check raise an ace high dry flop, then lead turn for near full pot. Shovin river is just gonna be to high variance and as genjix said, villain will probably surprise you with a call

bye now 

 



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