the river

Great job man, you can learn a lot from these things. I am sorry I said you are lazy and don't play with HEM, its just you never posted questions like this in your blog and just showed winnings graphs.

And it a generally known fact that SSNL regs are good PF and on flop, but suck at turn and rivers - playing them well needs a ton of experience because there are way way more variables than on earlier streets and we just don't have the experience.

Analysing my graph, right now I don't know what that means but probably you don't barrel river and don't vbet thin enough

This is my river when I bet, 22k hand sample:
Not sure whats up with that
+ Show Spoiler +

Your river graph is totally normal. Something I'm going to say right now is it's REALLY REALLY easy to misinterpret stats and a filtered graph.

For example, river agg% for a lot of players is extremely dependent upon their flop cbetting frequencies. A lot of aggro players actually have low agg% because they cbet give up a ton of hands. Some nits have higher river agg% because they cbet only hands that are capable of vbetting river.

It's too hard/almost impossible to draw conclusions in graphs unless you really break it down. And you absolutely need to compare it to something else, whether it be in the past where you might've been playing differently or something.

I have done this sort of thing a lot. Anyway, no matter.

I don't know what your overall winrate or anything is nor your basic preflop or post flop stats so I'm really not sure how much can be learned by comparing our graphs. Mine basically looks the same except nonshowdown winnings are much higher and showdown winnings lower. Is this all nl50? I'm wondering why you have $2k in winnings on the river over 22k hands whilst I have just $2.2k over 65k hands.. but your actual # of hands graphed is in reasonable proportion to mine (280 vs 714 and $2k vs $2.2k).

I just realized I don't think you ran the same filter as I. Specifically I had "Filter nl50 hands, River Bet = True", I don't know what "river actions" filters exactly..

word edzwoo, but it kind of corroborates my thoughts while I'm playing, "I know betting here and giving up later sucks". Then again that could mean maybe I just shouldn't make the first bet.. or maybe it means I should be barreling off more.

Actually I think you need to filter to first 'raised pre' and 'Bet Flop' and 'Bet turn' to see how often you bet river when you have initiative.
For me its 50% river aggression when raise pre bet turn
45% turn aggression and 29% river aggression when I bet flop when raised pre

EDIT: The way we run the graph is the same, are your flop/turn stats a lot different when you raised pre?

And yeah Dzwoo is right, this stuff points out general things that you should look at, but only looking at specific hands or doing the 'Today I focus on River play' sessions will lead to conclusions.

I'm trying to think about more than just 3 barrel spots, since lately I've been messing around with bluffing rivers without it simply being a 3barrel. but 3barrel spots are important here so..

filtered for 3barrel spots (doesn't require I raised preflop)



filtered for 2barrel post flop



what I'm reading here is that when I bet flop+turn I am choosing not to bet the river 75% of the time. Seems high but this includes when I try to check-call or check-raise.. maybe I will try filtering for" river hands worse than top pair", to see times that I was semi-bluffing or bluffing flop+turn and gave up on river?

If I filtered this right and my thinking is correct this is a very gross graph


I filtered for "bet river = true" and returned ~45 hands with a upwards red line and -240 in losses, Filtered for "bet river = false" and I returned 149 hands, sharply declining lines of all types, and -$1163.

Guess I will try to pay special attention to spots that I tend to 2 barrel without a solid plan to bet the river..

i think identifying villain player types/tendencies vs board textures is most valuable in improving ur redline or non showdown.i totally agree with what edzwoo said, some solid nits have insane aggression since they only cbet when they know their hand can rape three streets and abuse their nit image against some weaker player to fold .its fairly easy to get even more confused when basing stuff like this solely on filtered stats alone.

yep barrel more but don't bet flops as often. here are the 2 REALLY common/standard lines that pervade most people's games:

1. barrel once, give up
2. barrel twice, give up

both of which are kinda shitty in a lot of spots. now, here are some alternatives that you should be taking more often:

1. don't barrel at all. either give up when you have nothing, or play your hand as a bluff-catcher when you have something (instead of value betting it).
2. 3-barrel
3. barrel once, but check-raise another street
4. just check-raise-barrel on the flop as the PFR, instead of the standard "cbet flop then uhhhh i'm not sure" line.

seriously if you just get better at using your value hands as bluff-catchers when it's better than v-betting, and you get better about bluffing monstrously but less often, you'll see huge improvements

thanks all

I will definitely look out for such spots myth :D