thumbz555 United States. Nov 20 2010 01:44. Posts 3281
I don't give much of anything back to this community, so here's a little something that may benefit those of you who take it to heart.
First of all, let's look at the obvious: we're seated for hours on end. What does that lead to? Think about it: your knees are flexed, so your hamstrings are in a shortened position and they, inevitably, will shorten. Your hips are flexed, shortening your hip flexors and your rectus femoris (one of your quadriceps; the only one that crosses the hip joint). This tightness will lead to changes in the kinematics (movement) at the hip, knee, and ankle (Kinetic Chain).
Your arm or arms are stretched out in front of you, probably mostly just the side you use for your mouse. At the shoulder, this is called protraction. This changes the kinematics at the glenohumeral joint (shoulder). Depending on how bad it is, how long you've been like this, etc. it can lead to impingement at the shoulder. A quick test for this is to take your hand and place it on your opposite shoulder, leave it there, now bring your elbow to the ceiling. You feel a pinch? You may also notice it in overhead exercises like military press, incline bench press, skull crushers, etc.
Scapular Protraction:
vs
Scapular Retraction:
Shoulder impingement Test:
So, if your shoulders are constantly protracted, then the muscles on the posterior (rear) side will be put in a lengthened and essentially weakened position (Length-tension curve), namely your rhomboids, middle trapezius, and lower trapezius. This leads to winging and tipping of the scapulae (your shoulder blades). Winging and tipping essentially lead to instability/pain at that joint. This also puts the muscles on the anterior (front) side in a shortened position, which usually then become more dominant. This is often referred to as pec or pectoral-dominance as the muscles generally affected are the pec major and minor.
Winging and Tipping:
Let's talk posture. I can pretty much guarantee that your posture sucks. No big deal, right? Wrong. Maintaining crappy posture throughout the day has a variety of long term effects. Depending on how much time you put in on your computer, having your mouse at a different height than your keyboard may lead to a functional scoliosis (lateral curvature of the spine). Additionally, flat back and forward-head posture are common among people who spend a lot of time at their computers. As you can imagine these lead to neck and back problems.
Thoracic kyphosis + forward head posture:
Scoliosis:
This is really just the tip of the iceberg to be honest. If there's a significant amount of interest in this, I may post some follow up stretches/exercises prescribed with the internet poker player in mind. If not much interest is shown, you can always google exercises, or go pay for physical therapy (chiropractors can't help you, don't burn your money).
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PanoRaMa United States. Nov 20 2010 01:50. Posts 1655
i need something exactly like this. please please make a follow up blog post
also I don't get what you mean by a "pinch" in the test. Is it supposed to be a small, sharp pain?
http://panorama.liquidpoker.net
Last edit: 20/11/2010 01:51
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joLin United States. Nov 20 2010 02:29. Posts 3818
[x] Felt a pinch
[x] Feel that winging and tipping pain thingy at the shoulder blade.
Another thing I've noticed: When I do dead lifts with a mixed grip I feel an insane pain (much worse than the shoulder blade thing for example) in my right trapezius (right is my mouse arm) if I try to lift with my right palm facing forward. Right palm facing backward is np.
Please post more! This was interesting and probably opened ppls eyes a bit but it's kinda useless without the stretches/excercises etc.
After all is said and done, more is said than done.
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terrybunny19240 United States. Nov 20 2010 04:01. Posts 13829
more please
any more info to help convince me to invest in a better desk/chair is good
Last edit: 20/11/2010 04:02
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thumbz555 United States. Nov 20 2010 04:08. Posts 3281
On November 20 2010 02:50 Almebeast wrote:
[x] Felt a pinch
[x] Feel that winging and tipping pain thingy at the shoulder blade.
Another thing I've noticed: When I do dead lifts with a mixed grip I feel an insane pain (much worse than the shoulder blade thing for example) in my right trapezius (right is my mouse arm) if I try to lift with my right palm facing forward. Right palm facing backward is np.
Please post more! This was interesting and probably opened ppls eyes a bit but it's kinda useless without the stretches/excercises etc.
Assuming the desire is somewhat strong, I'll post exercises & stretches sometime soon. Sounds like you have shoulder impingement. Using a supinated grip is going to exacerbate that. Having pain around your shoulder blade with winging/tipping is atypical. Usually winging/tipping is resultant from a weakness in the rhomboids/middle trapezius/lower trapezius and leads to shoulder pain as a result of instability. The pain in your trapezius, is it in your upper (1), middle (2), or lower (3)?
Also, I disagree on this post being useless as anyone can read/look at pictures and self-diagnose. Follow that up with some googling, etc; you get the idea.
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Last edit: 20/11/2010 04:12
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thumbz555 United States. Nov 20 2010 04:23. Posts 3281
On November 20 2010 03:01 Night2o1 wrote:
more please
any more info to help convince me to invest in a better desk/chair is good
I honestly don't know that much about having an ergonomically sound desk/chair set up. My best advice would be to sit up as tall/straight as you can, sit in a chair with good back support, ideally keep your keyboard/mouse at roughly the same height, don't slouch and don't bring your face to your monitor. Additionally, spending a small amount of time each day sitting on a physio ball (swiss ball) would be beneficial.
Step 0. Ask somebody to help you, because you can't see everything well yourself.
Step 1. Sit on your adjustable chair. Move seat so the bottom of your legs is completely horizontal (for most people, this is different from the top of your leg horizontal).
Step 2. Hold your arms at your sides and relax your arms and shoulders so that you're comfortable. Bend your arms at the elbows at 90 degrees. You will almost always find that your arms end up way below your desk. Move your adjustable desk down so that your arms would end up in a comfortable position to use the mouse and keyboard. Make sure the desk is flat enough that this leaves enough space for your legs.
Step 3. Move your monitor so that you can just barely see over the top of it if you are sitting up straight. Humans are naturally comfortable looking slightly down. Make sure the monitor is far away from you.
Step 4. Make sure your chair's backseat moves so you keep sitting up straight.
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PanoRaMa United States. Nov 20 2010 12:29. Posts 1655
Also I went in for suiting once and they realized my right arm extends a quarter inch more than my left. They said reasons for this could be if I'm right-handed (which i am) and play a lot of basketball for instance. I did play some basketball before but I'm more inclined to think it has something to do with my computer posture, like what you alluded to since we use the mouse a lot more. Could this actually be or degenerate into a health issue or is it just w/e? I don't mind the asymmetry but I would mind if it'll lead to complications.
http://panorama.liquidpoker.net
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thumbz555 United States. Nov 20 2010 12:55. Posts 3281
On November 20 2010 11:29 PanoRaMa wrote:
Also I went in for suiting once and they realized my right arm extends a quarter inch more than my left. They said reasons for this could be if I'm right-handed (which i am) and play a lot of basketball for instance. I did play some basketball before but I'm more inclined to think it has something to do with my computer posture, like what you alluded to since we use the mouse a lot more. Could this actually be or degenerate into a health issue or is it just w/e? I don't mind the asymmetry but I would mind if it'll lead to complications.
Probably just genetic. Assuming your shoulders are in the same position on both sides, you probably don't have much to worry about in this category. If there is a true limb length discrepancy just be aware of it when you're lifting, i.e. use dumbells instead of barbells to ensure equal loading on exercises like incline/decline/flat bench, military press. If your right shoulder is sitting a bit more forward than your left, then it would make sense that that side is going to appear longer. If that's the case, it may be because you have your mouse set up too far out in front of you.
On November 20 2010 02:50 Almebeast wrote:
[x] Felt a pinch
[x] Feel that winging and tipping pain thingy at the shoulder blade.
Another thing I've noticed: When I do dead lifts with a mixed grip I feel an insane pain (much worse than the shoulder blade thing for example) in my right trapezius (right is my mouse arm) if I try to lift with my right palm facing forward. Right palm facing backward is np.
Please post more! This was interesting and probably opened ppls eyes a bit but it's kinda useless without the stretches/excercises etc.
Assuming the desire is somewhat strong, I'll post exercises & stretches sometime soon. Sounds like you have shoulder impingement. Using a supinated grip is going to exacerbate that. Having pain around your shoulder blade with winging/tipping is atypical. Usually winging/tipping is resultant from a weakness in the rhomboids/middle trapezius/lower trapezius and leads to shoulder pain as a result of instability. The pain in your trapezius, is it in your upper (1), middle (2), or lower (3)?
Also, I disagree on this post being useless as anyone can read/look at pictures and self-diagnose. Follow that up with some googling, etc; you get the idea.
The pain is in my upper trapezius, about 2cm from where the uppermost part reaches my neck.
So rowing and other excercises for the rhomboids and middle/lower trapz might help with the pain around the shoulder blade ? I have been going to the gym 3+ times/week so far in november and the pain has definitely lessened, but I also havent played a single hand in november so that could be it
And I obviously didnt really think this post was useless in any way, I was just trying to convince you to post more =).
After all is said and done, more is said than done.
1
thumbz555 United States. Nov 20 2010 15:43. Posts 3281
On November 20 2010 02:50 Almebeast wrote:
[x] Felt a pinch
[x] Feel that winging and tipping pain thingy at the shoulder blade.
Another thing I've noticed: When I do dead lifts with a mixed grip I feel an insane pain (much worse than the shoulder blade thing for example) in my right trapezius (right is my mouse arm) if I try to lift with my right palm facing forward. Right palm facing backward is np.
Please post more! This was interesting and probably opened ppls eyes a bit but it's kinda useless without the stretches/excercises etc.
Assuming the desire is somewhat strong, I'll post exercises & stretches sometime soon. Sounds like you have shoulder impingement. Using a supinated grip is going to exacerbate that. Having pain around your shoulder blade with winging/tipping is atypical. Usually winging/tipping is resultant from a weakness in the rhomboids/middle trapezius/lower trapezius and leads to shoulder pain as a result of instability. The pain in your trapezius, is it in your upper (1), middle (2), or lower (3)?
Also, I disagree on this post being useless as anyone can read/look at pictures and self-diagnose. Follow that up with some googling, etc; you get the idea.
The pain is in my upper trapezius, about 2cm from where the uppermost part reaches my neck.
So rowing and other excercises for the rhomboids and middle/lower trapz might help with the pain around the shoulder blade ? I have been going to the gym 3+ times/week so far in november and the pain has definitely lessened, but I also havent played a single hand in november so that could be it
And I obviously didnt really think this post was useless in any way, I was just trying to convince you to post more =).
I would suggest trying some AIS stretches for your neck/levator scapulae:
On November 20 2010 02:50 Almebeast wrote:
[x] Felt a pinch
[x] Feel that winging and tipping pain thingy at the shoulder blade.
Another thing I've noticed: When I do dead lifts with a mixed grip I feel an insane pain (much worse than the shoulder blade thing for example) in my right trapezius (right is my mouse arm) if I try to lift with my right palm facing forward. Right palm facing backward is np.
Please post more! This was interesting and probably opened ppls eyes a bit but it's kinda useless without the stretches/excercises etc.
Assuming the desire is somewhat strong, I'll post exercises & stretches sometime soon. Sounds like you have shoulder impingement. Using a supinated grip is going to exacerbate that. Having pain around your shoulder blade with winging/tipping is atypical. Usually winging/tipping is resultant from a weakness in the rhomboids/middle trapezius/lower trapezius and leads to shoulder pain as a result of instability. The pain in your trapezius, is it in your upper (1), middle (2), or lower (3)?
Also, I disagree on this post being useless as anyone can read/look at pictures and self-diagnose. Follow that up with some googling, etc; you get the idea.
The pain is in my upper trapezius, about 2cm from where the uppermost part reaches my neck.
So rowing and other excercises for the rhomboids and middle/lower trapz might help with the pain around the shoulder blade ? I have been going to the gym 3+ times/week so far in november and the pain has definitely lessened, but I also havent played a single hand in november so that could be it
And I obviously didnt really think this post was useless in any way, I was just trying to convince you to post more =).
I would suggest trying some AIS stretches for your neck/levator scapulae:
See if these help
Yeah the one starting at ~3:00 really nailed it. Thank you sir.
After all is said and done, more is said than done.
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YoMeR United States. Nov 20 2010 22:07. Posts 12438
next time we meet you can do a full examination. I'll pay for your services in a very special way.
eZ Life.
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thumbz555 United States. Nov 21 2010 15:21. Posts 3281
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