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My story and transitioning out of poker

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edzwoo   United States. Dec 17 2010 09:14. Posts 5911
Hey guys,

Just thought I'd share what's been going on recently with me since I haven't been playing as much recently. This might be a little bit of a read, but I think it'll be interesting to most of you. I'm also just kinda bored so I might throw in some random irrelevant details.

I've been meaning to write all this out because of this thread: http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-forum/935296/Your_poker_goals__.html

It just got me thinking, how many of you guys had a plan after poker, if any?

I started playing poker when I was 18, and like most of you I played NL2 with a small starting bankroll (mine was a random free $5 Stars promotion). Signed up for LP and pretty much went through what most of you are doing or have done with posting countless threads/getting yelled at by TalentedTom/thinking about poker in the shower. After about a year or so I was playing finally playing NL100. Not really enough of a sample size, but I was winning at like 5ptbb over the first 100k hands or so I played and a had a lot of 10bi+ days. Probably was a massive heater, but I do think the games were a bit easier, or whatever I was doing was working really well against the player pool.

Anyway around this time I ended up dropping out of school. Before you guys say that's really stupid, I totally agree with you; dropping out just to play poker is pretty stupid. Actually, I just use poker as an excuse of why I dropped to make it easier to explain to non-poker players. In reality, I'm a pretty terrible student without the discipline to study or do homework. I'm pretty sure it would've happened if you substituted a random video game that made me no money with poker as well.

Rent is cheap here in Champaign. It's about $420 a month to live in a nice apartment. Overall, my living expenses usually amounted to about 1k a month. I'm a pretty frugal guy and I don't drink, so other than ordering food pretty much every day it doesn't take much for me to be pretty content. So in terms of actually surviving, I never really had a problem. I guess I did have the luxury of my family supporting me in case something happened or my bankroll got low, but I never had to resort to that.

So now it's the summer of last year now, and I got 3 other roommates and we subleased a pretty sweet apartment right in the middle of all the stores and bars for like $200/month/bedroom (hilariously good deal). Life was pretty good, but one problem that kinda irked me is I had no future. I'm sure a lot of you guys share this same situation, which is kinda the reason I'm writing all this. Since I didn't get a degree, I can't really get a job. Since I'm not getting a job, I'm also not really networking with new people either. To top it off, the biggest problem was my initial reason I dropped out of school, which is the lack of motivation.

See, when I was playing NL2, I had these aspirations to get to NL100 and NL200 and be financially independent. I did these calculations where I was like, "Woah if I played X hours a day, I will be making Y per year". So I'd play like 3-4 hours a day at the micros so I could move up faster. The major flaw is it wasn't the money that drove me, but the desire to live off of poker. Once I actually got there, I started playing like an hour every other day. Since I only really needed 10bi at NL100 a month to support my lifestyle, I usually would quit and just chill for the month after I made like $1500~. My biggest miscalculation was I wouldn't have the motivation to make money beyond what I simply needed. So yeah, just a quick warning to those of you that are grinding the microstakes and have very modest goals like I did.

Anyway, I had to think of what I was going to do with my life, cause I certainly wasn't going to live on school campus ordering the same double gyro plate everyday. I want to get married in the future with a nice house and stuff, and $1500 a month wasn't going to cut it. Of course, going back to school and getting a legit job came into mind, but I quickly realized I still had lack of motivation for that. Also, it kinda came to mind that the reward for getting a degree is usually being able to get a 9 to 5 job. If I can't even wake up for a 2pm class or turn in a homework assignment on time, I'd probably either be miserable or get snap-fired.

It didn't really take me very long to realize that as an online poker player I just want to sit at my computer, click buttons and make money. So with that I stumbled across internet marketing and eCommerce. Basically just running an internet business. So for about the past year or so, I've been studying a ton about internet marketing just like I did with poker when I was at the micros. And believe me when I say this, having poker experience really gave me a huge advantage. People without that background have to learn things like not being results oriented, handling tilt, understanding variance, bankroll management, etc. It took me some time to realize this, but everything made so much more sense when approached with a poker mindset.

So as you all probably know, Jason and I decided to start a little niche business about 6 months ago and split it 50/50. I've known Jason since high school, and we've actually both taken advantage of a ton of random arbitrage opportunities when we were just broke kids. The difference between us though is I hate doing something if it isn't efficient or boring, but Jason can just straight up go for something and grind it like mad. Dunno if any of you guys saw one of his really old blog posts but check this out: http://www.liquidpoker.net/blog/viewblog.php?id=824133. 16000 feedback isn't so easy to get.

Well with the holidays here, we're on a pretty sick heater with our sales, but even so we've been making enough to both be financially independent (and better than what I was making in poker). If you want a little bit of an idea of where we're at, we can probably pull off over 1 million in revenue (not profit) next year assuming we don't grow at all. We're actually growing ridiculously fast, so I think it's going to be MUCH bigger than that. There's definitely no lack of motivation on my end because even with all the work involved, it's a really awesome feeling at the end of the day.

One thing I would love to see is a Liquid forum for internet marketing. A lot of the forums for internet marketing are basically like twoplustwo; like 80%+ of the information is basically just fish giving advice, so as a newbie it's impossible to know what is good info and bad. I know for a fact I still have a hard time differentiating the good and bad advice. I was also wondering if I wrote some sort of eBook bridging poker into internet marketing, how many of you guys would be interested in it?

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Zep   United States. Dec 17 2010 09:30. Posts 2292

great read, a lot of personal insight for me at least, thanks for writing this up. definitely would be interested in some sort of ebook. get it poppin shawty.

NeillyJQ: I really wanted to prove to myself I could beat NL200, I did over a small sample, and believe Ill be crushing there in the future. 

Surprise   United States. Dec 17 2010 09:59. Posts 275

I'd be interested in a book. I'm not planning on getting into internet marketing, but I'd buy it just for the info and to see what the life of an internet marketer is like.

the games you own at, end up owning you 

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Dec 17 2010 10:02. Posts 15163

Job is a lot different than uni Edzwoo. Uni is more like poker, where you work for yourself and you set your own targets in terms of what grades you need, and do everything for yourself only, and noone give sa shit that you lost motivation or perform sub-par. If you join some forward thinking employers you will be part of multiple teams and have projects under way to which you contribute , and can go on secondments etc. You will work with and for other people, and if you have the right mentors and line manager its easy to find motivation - its their job to get the best out of you. You just need to find a company that allows personal development and promotes creativity and has people with passion that will motivate you (Like Google had, although it seems that now that it has inevitably expanded it gets closer to standard corporations as some people left for facebook and commented that the flair was lost etc.) and waking up will not be a problem at all, provided you enjoy the actual work at least a little.

Still I agree that especially in the corporate world a company like that is hard to find , all I personally want is ambitious people passionate about what they are doing whatever it is around me, and I didn't find that in Insurance Finance where I was working, where people did the work and reports and personal development just for the sake of it. That really can be de-motivating and I didn't want to wake up after a couple months working there.

But if you find a company/department/team with the fire in them 9-5 job can turn into lots of fun and satisfaction.

93% Sure! Last edit: 17/12/2010 10:15

edzwoo   United States. Dec 17 2010 10:21. Posts 5911


  On December 17 2010 09:02 LemOn[5thF] wrote:
Job is a lot different than uni Edzwoo. Uni is more like poker, where you work for yourself and you set your own targets in terms of what grades you need, and do everything for yourself only, and noone give sa shit that you lost motivation or perform sub-par. If you join some forward thinking employers you will be part of multiple teams and have projects under way to which you contribute , and can go on secondments etc. You will work with and for other people, and if you have the right mentors and line manager its easy to find motivation - its their job to get the best out of you. You just need to find a company that allows personal development and promotes creativity and has people with passion that will motivate you (Like Google had, although it seems that now that it has inevitably expanded it gets closer to standard corporations as some people left for facebook etc) and waking up will not be a problem at all, provided you enjoy the actual work at least a little.

Still I agree that especially in the corporate world a company like that is hard to find , all I personally want is ambitious people passionate about what they are doing whatever it is around me, and I didn't find that in Insurance Finance where I was working, where people did the work and reports and personal development just for the sake of it. That really can be de-motivating and I didn't want to wake up after a couple months working there.

But if you find a company/department/team with the fire in them 9-5 job can turn into lots of fun and satisfaction.



Well there are a few more reasons than just that little analogy, but I didn't want to get into it cause I'd just be rambling even more about myself haha.

For the job, I can't really see myself doing it because I'd be working to grow someone else's ideas and business. There nothing wrong with that at all and of course you could be a part of something big, it's just I want to be the guy that started the idea and be at the top. If that makes sense.


LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Dec 17 2010 10:46. Posts 15163

Absolutely. If you have the ideas, balls and passion and you want to be a leader ASAP being an Entrepreneur is ideal. You can still do that with the right ambition in the corporate world, but it will take you some 20 years to get a director position where you do your own stuff (still with a boss above you, but with hundreds people that you command and with salary and pension that makes money almost irrelevant). Good luck to you sir, its nice to see you have found your passion in the marketing and on-line sales thing

I am still too much in love with this wretched game to go search for other opportunities, but although it might seem ridiculous right now I'd love to start a high end restaurant with my gf one day and follow Gordon Ramsay's path if poker stops being my motivation xD

93% Sure! Last edit: 17/12/2010 10:47

exalted   United States. Dec 17 2010 11:23. Posts 2918

this seems really interesting and even though i am having some of my more successful months (in poker), i am also worried about "what after poker".

it is definitely necessary to think of ways to segue out of poker into things that could potentially lead to much greater +ev (at least for certain people)

seems like you are successfully doing that and that deserves props

exalted from teamliquid :o 

SPEWTARD   Peru. Dec 17 2010 11:32. Posts 4306

gl

Rise and Shine 

Jas0n   United States. Dec 17 2010 11:36. Posts 1866

back to work slave


mnj   United States. Dec 17 2010 11:59. Posts 3848

there exists life after poker?


Exhilarate   United States. Dec 17 2010 12:21. Posts 5453

hope it works out, poker is only going to get worse


edzwoo   United States. Dec 17 2010 12:25. Posts 5911

whoops wrong topic LOL

 Last edit: 17/12/2010 12:34

Timonga   United States. Dec 17 2010 12:53. Posts 1074

Nice, GL man


terrybunny19240   United States. Dec 17 2010 13:13. Posts 13829

why don't ya give us a link to your e-business?


Edjon   Netherlands. Dec 17 2010 13:34. Posts 1579

good to read you're doing well!


edzwoo   United States. Dec 17 2010 13:37. Posts 5911


  On December 17 2010 12:34 Edjon wrote:
good to read you're doing well!



I don't see you post very often, but I can tell you have some experience too


joLin   United States. Dec 17 2010 14:12. Posts 3818

FISH

YoUr_KiLLeR @ TL 

bigredhoss   Cook Islands. Dec 17 2010 14:38. Posts 8649


  On December 17 2010 12:13 Night2o1 wrote:
why don't ya give us a link to your e-business?

Truck-Crash Life 

NewbSaibot   United States. Dec 17 2010 14:43. Posts 4946

I always find these blogs enlightening. I see a lot of disillusionment among players who simply havent lived life enough to know what they're doing & why they're doing it. I've been told I'm too old to successfully pursue poker, but then I read blogs like this and it makes me feel better. I have goals, I have lived life, and I know what I want. Im not just aimlessly hoping to become an NL200 reg to pay the bills, nor am I naive enough to still yearn to sack groceries or work in an office cube or attend board meetings, whatever it is that you so many of you feel you've missed out on. Im not gonna lie, growing up in the real world has been interesting. I've had a variety of jobs, from low class to high class. I can comfortably sit back and say "ok, i know what I want now because I've done everything". Obviously "everything" is a stretch, but I know I'm not missing anything like you. Time and time again I hear someone write off poker once they plateau at small stakes because they never really cared about the game or high stakes. But fuck that, I know exactly where I want to be. Playing nosebleeds online. Sitting at the bellagio grinding 25/50. Yeah it's one table, but I love it. I like this game. And I can envision the things I would spend my money on, and it's not sports cars and watches or other impulsive shit. So many of you just seem like "meh, dont really know what I'd spend money on. Vacations? Electronics? Then what?" Part of it probably has to do with the fact that I'm in a long term committed relationship. I have someone to share my life with, and anything that poker brings. I dont know why so many of you feel so lost with poker, I know exactly where I am.

bye now 

edzwoo   United States. Dec 17 2010 14:49. Posts 5911

airsoftgunsnow.com

but that's not where we do most of our business


 
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