Cancer & Keynes

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palak United States. Jan 17 2011 05:12. Posts 4601

On the cancer thread which is getting out of control...should I even bother continuing to argue in that thread?

Poll: Should I continue posting in the cancer thread?
(Vote): Yes, d_smart and group have good points about medicine.
(Vote): Yes, the posts make good reading material if i need to bore myself half to death & r educational.
(Vote): No, even if you have NOTHING else to do but watch paint dry that is better then continuing arguing.

Also this has been bothering me but I don't want to bump the ron paul money bomb thread b/c I currently don't feel like arguing economics. Dustyswededude said to correct him if someone found something wrong w/ what he said.

On December 21 2010 23:31 DustySwedeDude wrote:

Also, and please keep in mind that in no way try to accuse anyone of being a Nazi or anything like that, I feel that the an example of keynesianism that actually worked fairly good was the third Reich. I'm fairly certain that that economy would've crashed in a couple of years anyway since it's a classic example of increased Governmental spending to get the economy going by increasing the aggregated demand. And don't worry, I do have a point with this that I feel this is a good example of. Keynes himself was asked by some student (I think? at least someone) something like; "But what of the long run?" and apparently answered; "In the long run we're all dead". The way to make keynesaism make you look good is to die before the bust. Of course, Hitler fucked that up by being a complete psycho killer responsible for millions of deaths, but that's besides the point.

This is not the context at all for the long run quote.
here is the context and what he meant by it.

In the first place, Keynes was complaining about the “classical” economics, that is, the ideas of the economists before him who believed that the market, if unhampered after a recession, could reduce or eliminate the unemployment associated with the business cycle. ...Some basic methodology is in order. When economists talk about “the long run” they do not mean calendar time. Yes, that’s right. They do not mean long in the sense of many years or perhaps even many decades....The long run happens when all of the variable elements in a model are fully adjusted.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Thi...-all-dead-What-did-Keynes-really-mean

The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us that when the storm is past the ocean is flat again.
A Tract on Monetary Reform (1923) Ch. 3; many have thought this meant Keynes supported short terms gains against long term economic performance, but he was actually criticizing the belief that inflation would acceptably control itself without government intervention.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Maynard_Keynes

‘The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs - in the long run we are all dead ‘ JM Keynes

I thought this was very interesting as it puts forward the idea that we shouldn’t bother to think beyond our own lifetime, our own generation. Which I think is a terrible mistake.

This quote came from Keynes' General Theory of Money. During the Great Depression, the prevailing economic orthodoxy was the Classical view. This stated that markets would adjust to disequilibrium without government intervention. Therefore, when the Great Depression occurred in 1930, the classical response was to do nothing - because in the long run the markets would solve the problem (real wages would fall, people would return to work and the economy would return to full employment)

However, Keynes said this was madness - In the depth of a recession, why not try to do something about it, rather than leave to 'market forces'. Yes in the long run, the recession may end, but, here the long run could be 10 years. Keynes wanted to try and solve the depression now rather than wait for 10 15 years or however, long the 'longrun' was.

In particular Keynes criticised the idea that falling real wages would solve unemployment. He argued falling real wages would just leave people with less money and therefore aggregate demand would fall more. Keynes argued for public works schemes, financed by government borrowing to inject money into the economy and get people back to work and spending. This was too radical for the UK Treasury, and generally the UK didn't follow Keynesian policies in the Great Depression. If we had injected government spending, the recession may have been less serious and ended sooner.

http://econ.economicshelp.org/2008/10/in-long-run-we-are-all-dead-jm-keynes.html

Finally this is another link http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/Economists/keynes.html for info on it.

0 votes

dont tap the glass...im about ready to take a fucking hammer to the aquarium

Last edit: 17/01/2011 05:17

DustySwedeDude Sweden. Jan 17 2011 07:54. Posts 8623

I just fell over this blog. Thank you for pointing that out.

I have no real time to respond today, but that seemed like an enlightened argument. Without having had time to think it I do however feel that it does not change anything important except that it messed up my rhetoric figure.

palak United States. Jan 17 2011 12:22. Posts 4601

^that's true...summing it up was basically, you were saying that keynesian economics leads to inflation which destroys the economy and u used the quote to show that keynes himself knew this to be true but said lol fuck the future. In context with that quote keynes was actually arguing that without some government control/management of the market the markets will not self correct themselves efficiently when there were times of high unemployment.

dont tap the glass...im about ready to take a fucking hammer to the aquarium

Last edit: 17/01/2011 16:20

Funktion Australia. Jan 17 2011 12:37. Posts 1638

In regards to the cancer thread, don't bother. I posted on page 2, kept up until page 3 and then got out. You are arguing with some of the dumbest and most gullible people on the planet let alone this forum. If you enjoy posting then by all means keep doing it but I am sure you are better off utilising your time for more beneficial tasks.

YoMeR United States. Jan 17 2011 13:28. Posts 12438

you should def continue. that way i can feel good about myself. shit they think pot cures cancer.

LOLOLOL.

eZ Life.