1 | |
HeroPoker.com
There are hundreds of blogs of players who document their ‘challenge’ to take a small bankroll of $10 dollars and turn it into $10k, or else, there are blogs where winning casual poker players decided that they are going to go professional and go all-in with their decision by moving to Vegas or grind online for 12 hours a day.
This blog is along the same lines, but from a different perspective… I'd like to do the same thing, but with a poker site, Hero Poker.
Hi, my name is David Jung, I was the Regional Director of PokerStars in Asia and nearly singlehandedly established poker across Asia, and I am the current CEO of Hero Poker, a new site on the Merge Gaming Network. I'm on a quest to make Hero Poker, the world's premier boutique poker site.
I am going to blog about the trials and tribulations of this challenge and I've chosen two poker communities to really work with during this time and one of them is LiquidPoker.net.
STACKED AGAINST THE HOUSE
If you think becoming a poker pro has some odds stacked against you, taking a new network poker site and trying to break into the top ten of global poker sites is virtually drawing dead. Even if you hit that two outer, no amount of corporate chip stack is going to prepare you for the 900 pound gorilla of the market leaders. And I should know, I worked at PokerStars as a senior manager and director from 2007 to 2010. I know the nature of the beast and from a competitive standpoint, the online poker jungle has its obvious hierarchy, we know who the lions and gorillas are.
AND THE WORD FROM VEGAS IS…
Recently I got word from Vegas that the word on the street is that, if you don't have 100M USD for seed money for online poker, you can forget about even competing. I'd reckon that would be the case for these major US live casinos (with the exception of Harrahs/Cesears) as probably they would donk off the first 50M to every type of marketing agency out there. Another 25M would go to useless online promotions and the last 25M they would start to use properly, but then realize that they actually short stacked at this point. Then things would really start to fall apart as ‘reloading’ your capital/bankroll as a public company has some major costs. And what is really shocking/breaking news is the joint venture with PokerStars and Wynn. Now the significance of Wynn making a relationship with PokerStars means that they think that the market is so damn competitive that even the legendary Steve Wynn is willing to make a joint venture...its pretty heavy news.
SO WHERE DO I THINK I COULD DO BETTER?
This is the part of the blog where I justify that my past experience will help me get the job done. And this also will lead to comments of 'good luck buddy you haven't got a chance' or 'prop bets to see how long this site will actually be up for'. And the truth is, no amount of experience could prepare one to take on such a complex and difficult task, even if you had 100M in chip. Because I accept this, I’ve let go of trying to compete with the beasts. Before I joined PokerStars, I was a senior management consultant for PricewaterhouseCoopers (the biggest global accounting firm). At the time I was specialized in business strategy, international negotiations and casino investments. What I loved about my job was that it wasn't a typical bs consultant's job. My main role wasn't to take a nearly bankrupt company and bring it to life again, or turn a so/so company into a super duper company with some wonky market strategy. Rather, my role was to make strategy that allowed companies to sidestep the competition. The key thing about this kind of strategic approach is that it isn’t flashy or mind-blowing stuff, it just looks to focus on one good point that everyone would normally take as a negative.
FOCUS IS GOOD
There comes a point when a company completely controls the playing field or that there is so much competition that there is no space to manoeuvre. This is the case with the online poker industry right now. For the stand alone sites, the market leaders have a lock on it; for the smaller network sites, their own network partners can be both friend or foe. So how to side step it all to make the competition irrelevant for a moment so that you can create your own beach head in this battle? So what is the obvious most negative thing and how to make it positive? And what is the most negative thing in online poker? Player liquidity…
Player LIQUIDITY NUMBERS
Without player liquidity, players sometimes can't even maximize the use of their tournament bankrolls because there isn't enough tournaments to register into. Player liquidity affects the selection of the game in term of available limits, number of tables and tournament prize pools. But everyone is so focused on player liquidity, it is easy to forget liquidity doesn't always add to the quality of the game. It is a common fact that playing at one of the major stand alone sites is a harder game to win, because the players are more educated, they use HUDs and there is just a bigger tournament field.
THE QUALITY GAME
There is this single huge cash game in Macau, the biggest in the world. It's a single table and this table moves between Starworld to Lisboa to Grand Lisboa and sometimes makes a stop at the Wynn in any given week. And this game is by invitation only. You've heard of this game, it's a game populated by casino owners and VIP junket operators where there are single 1M USD pots and you can be up 5 or 8M or be down 2 M in the same game, and to them, this is still a fraction of their worth. This is the single table game that every pro worth his salt would die to get a regular place in it. But that is at one end of the spectrum. About 6 months ago I was in Shenzen (just across the border of Hong Kong) for a casual game of poker and three guys came down from Shanghai. One guy's family sold yachts and the other two were just full on wealthy and they had just started playing poker. But since they had a lot of disposable income, we played a $10/$20 and I bought in for $1200, but in just 4 hours I was up $3000. One of the guys looks at me and says, 'Wow you are so lucky, how come you always have a flush or straight' and I said, 'this is a game of skill, you allow me the cards to make my hands' and he just laughed at me and said, 'this is just luck and you are one lucky guy!'. Now that was a quality game.
LET NOTHING COME BETWEEN YOU AND THE CARDS
In live poker, you play that single table and can't multi-table (unless you're at the WSOP and you have that option). Now a lot of internet poker players feel that playing live poker is quite boring at first. The two aspects of continually trying to read your opponents while trying to set them up is different for live play than online, in that, it is far more intense. After setting up two poker rooms in Macau and being part of countless live tournaments working on the floor, I know that live poker players want to be, above else, comfortable. But comfortable here doesn’t mean it’s ‘Cheers’ and everyone knows your name. It’s when players know that someone is actively looking out for their interests so they can simply just focus and play their game.
I'm not saying that I want to turn an online site into a live poker room, I'll leave that to PKR, rather, I want to provide an experience where the players know that they can directly speak with the CEO and have that level of comfort to simply play their game at their best. If you’re going to play with us, then we want to provide that environment where you know you can talk to the management and get answers.
FISH COME AND GO, BUT QUALITY LASTS FOREVER
No matter what anyone says, size does matter, but size isn't about the general liquidity, but it’s about the amount of quality. To this end, we've focused our entire site on newer players and low stakes tournament players. Our focused marketing is casting the net wide to actively target and develop new players for low stakes tournament poker. Hero Poker is already part of a network that has low stake guaranteed tournaments with consistent overlays. This is the perfect environment for a low stakes player to play in relatively smaller fields with value. That being said, there are a lot of pending changes to the client and while we are one of the fastest growing poker networks, you can't ignore player liquidity as a major factor for the long term survive and competitiveness of our site. But right now, its a matter of allowing the disadvantage be a benefit and if I'm right liquidity will follow.
Now, in terms of LiquidPoker.net and HeroPoker, LiquidPoker is a bit nearer to my heart in that it is a 'sister site' to 'Teamliquid.net' where I've been a long time member. While I've kept things very separate, I do know that there is cross over, I'd just like people to respect the separation and not post on TL about whatever I'm doing business wise on LP; and while some of you already know, David Jung is MightyAtom. I still have a great love for SCBW and SC2 and of course E-sports. If I do something on TL, it would be sponsor a SCBW tournament, not that I have anything against SC2. While I do keep a blog on TL.net, its more on general business discourse, while this blog will really get into the nitty-gritty details of what is going on. I am maintaining two separate poker blogs, but I'd say that LP is quite different than the other community, so I will be a bit more personal here as I guess I can slightly let my guard down a bit more.
WE DO HAVE SPONSORED PROS, CLICHÉ, BUT SERIOUSLY THEY ARE WORLD CLASS PROS
HeroPoker is fortunate to be joined by six seasoned but still young veterans of the game, Gavin Griffin, Terrence Chan, James 'mig.com' Mackey, Daniel 'Rekrul' Schreiber, David 'u_dirty_dog' Ewing and Julian Powell. All of them play at the highest international level either both online and/or live. I know that many people in this community know Rekrul and Mig.com, obvious that was intentional from the beginning as I knew that one of the markets that I would like to focus on was the gamer market. Both Rekrul and Mig.com agreed after much discussion, I think both of them don't need sponsorship, and so our discussions weren't about the benefits more than if this was a good fit. I know both of them don't want to make a big deal out of it and don't want to seem like air headed figureheads, but that is what I'm going to do (although Rek is resisting like mad).
I know both of them are very talented but very different in personality. I don't think I need to go into details about them both here at LP, but I'm very very grateful and fortunate to have them both on the team. I've know Rek forever, and I did sponsor him for the 1st Team Asia Pros for PokerStars, but after I used him after one year, dropped him ^^ and Mig.com was introduced to me by Nazgul. I actually asked him for the best pro that he could think of that wasn't sponsored and fit what I was looking for, someone who could hold their own and was the best at what they did, and the first thought that came to him was Mig.com. Rekrul was there as we at the OGS-Liquid house (SC2 training house in Korea) and when I asked him his opinion, he was just basically speechless and said, 'Mig is as good as it gets'. After a couple weeks of talks, I had my full team. I'll get more into it about sponsored pros later, but I just wanted to share that story. I know that Rek is a controversial person and I'm willing to work through, not ignore, whatever come up because I do think he is worth it, but I'll leave it at that for now.
We will be running some type of promotions for LiquidPoker members exclusively, from some freerolls to some different type of promotions; we can even run a PLO freeroll, but honestly there isn't much PLO action on Hero Poker yet.
MOVING FORWARD
I will write about everything under the sun when it comes to the poker industry, professional business, careers and the trials and tribulations of this task and for all those who are doing the same thing but on the other side of the coin as a player. Feel free to request a blog topic and if I can write something decent about it, I will.
I’d like to leave you with this.
‘There Is Nothing Impossible To Him Who Will Try’
Alexander the Great
Cheers,
David Jung
Hero Poker CEO
Please use the following link to be under LP and 35% rakeback
http://record.heropoker.com/_ZvdkqjISoXGVAv0U_Fv2nWNd7ZgqdRLk/1
|
|
| 1
 |
Ket  United Kingdom. Mar 28 2011 12:26. Posts 8665 | | |
Plz keep posting dude, very interested in hearing about ur experiences starting a poker site up |
|
| 1
 |
El_Tanque United States. Mar 28 2011 12:36. Posts 360 | | |
Great blog. I always wondered what the profit percentage was from rake on micro stakes v. mid v. high stakes.
Lot more action and amount of games in micro, but full rake is met more often on high stakes... Just intrigued. Please keep posting.
Also is Hero Poker USA friendly? |
|
| 1
 |
ShLiM United Kingdom. Mar 28 2011 12:50. Posts 940 | | |
yes, merge network is USA friendly |
|
| Seat 5: patatino showed [Qd 2d] and won ($609,730) with a pair of Twos | |
|
| 1 | |
@ Ket, thx, hopefully the experience will be more good than bad, but I'm just going to put up a crap load of content as I have some more blog entries.
@ El_Tanque The profit percentage from rake on mciro to mid to high is close to exponential. A regular mircostakes player may make $2-3 rake (.2/.4), while a mid $40 (.50/1), while a high $150 (1/2, 2/4) that's just off the top of my head, thing is, its about the grind not the amounts really because of the cap and its a 'rake/commission' so the most profitable players would be the ones that hit the cap and play a lot: so 1/2, 2/4 would be the best level for grinders. But one good think about micro grinders, have enough volume, then it starts to pick up, but very few sites aside from FT/PS have that kind of micro stakes volume.
And yes, we are USA friendly.
@ShLiM edit: faster than me -thx
Cheers |
|
| | Last edit: 28/03/2011 12:55 |
|
| 1
|
El_Tanque United States. Mar 28 2011 13:48. Posts 360 | | |
| | On March 28 2011 11:50 HeroPoker-CEO wrote:
@ Ket, thx, hopefully the experience will be more good than bad, but I'm just going to put up a crap load of content as I have some more blog entries.
@ El_Tanque The profit percentage from rake on mciro to mid to high is close to exponential. A regular mircostakes player may make $2-3 rake (.2/.4), while a mid $40 (.50/1), while a high $150 (1/2, 2/4) that's just off the top of my head, thing is, its about the grind not the amounts really because of the cap and its a 'rake/commission' so the most profitable players would be the ones that hit the cap and play a lot: so 1/2, 2/4 would be the best level for grinders. But one good think about micro grinders, have enough volume, then it starts to pick up, but very few sites aside from FT/PS have that kind of micro stakes volume.
And yes, we are USA friendly.
@ShLiM edit: faster than me -thx
Cheers |
I meant how much do you make on rake...Example...Hero poker makes 30% net income from micro, 40% from mid, 30% from high stakes...something like that.
For example... I've started grinding, played roughly 3,500 hands or so, and have payed $31.65 in rake. Thats a lot! I dont want to earn points, and buy stupid keychains that are like 1500 ftp points, i just want to play poker. Be my hero, lower (or discontinue) rake for microstake grinders!! (I know your job is to make money, and this is probably impossible, which is why i asked how much money does the company make off micro v high stakes.)
I'm just thinking outloud. I know everything can't be perfect, and your job is to make money. But if you really want to shake things up, maybe make it a lot less inexpensive for people to start out their grinding careers, and cut costs by not getting into the points and rewards systems, selling useless jackets and key chains and coffee mugs.
Be my hero!!! |
|
| 1 | |
| | On March 28 2011 12:48 El_Tanque wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 11:50 HeroPoker-CEO wrote:
@ Ket, thx, hopefully the experience will be more good than bad, but I'm just going to put up a crap load of content as I have some more blog entries.
@ El_Tanque The profit percentage from rake on mciro to mid to high is close to exponential. A regular mircostakes player may make $2-3 rake (.2/.4), while a mid $40 (.50/1), while a high $150 (1/2, 2/4) that's just off the top of my head, thing is, its about the grind not the amounts really because of the cap and its a 'rake/commission' so the most profitable players would be the ones that hit the cap and play a lot: so 1/2, 2/4 would be the best level for grinders. But one good think about micro grinders, have enough volume, then it starts to pick up, but very few sites aside from FT/PS have that kind of micro stakes volume.
And yes, we are USA friendly.
@ShLiM edit: faster than me -thx
Cheers |
I meant how much do you make on rake...Example...Hero poker makes 30% net income from micro, 40% from mid, 30% from high stakes...something like that.
For example... I've started grinding, played roughly 3,500 hands or so, and have payed $31.65 in rake. Thats a lot! I dont want to earn points, and buy stupid keychains that are like 1500 ftp points, i just want to play poker. Be my hero, lower (or discontinue) rake for microstake grinders!! (I know your job is to make money, and this is probably impossible, which is why i asked how much money does the company make off micro v high stakes.)
I'm just thinking outloud. I know everything can't be perfect, and your job is to make money. But if you really want to shake things up, maybe make it a lot less inexpensive for people to start out their grinding careers, and cut costs by not getting into the points and rewards systems, selling useless jackets and key chains and coffee mugs.
Be my hero!!!
|
I'll answer this in two points:
#1
% of revenue
Micro: 5%
Mid: 60%
High: 35%
#2
I've set up the reward systems so that it especially focused for new players,
its at 300 levels, and after 1.50 in rake you start to receive a tournament ticket per each level you hit (basically after level 4);
then every time you reach a divisional level, you get an instant cash bonus plus a rebate cash bonus;
so the rewards level is extremely generous for the lower levels in that I give a lot back to the player;
also you can exchange the VIP points at 10% value back at any time:
With the 35% rakeback, you only generate the VIP points at 20% the normal rate, but in case, rakeback on an absolute scale is better than the VIP system alone by about 8% (as you still generate VIP points);but I would say for a new player, a sense of progress and these tournament tickets may be more helpful before someone would go out and get hold'em manager.
http://www.heropoker.com/en/experience/rewards
#3
We wont' be selling key chains and mugs, we'll just be giving it out to our players depending on their activity and play, so everything will be uber high quality items and we're in the process of finalizing the structure.
Our site is focused 100% on the new player, so I hope you there is value there because I do recognize there isn't much to be gained by taxing new players, so proportionally the tournament tickets are quite significant for the early levels of our VIP program.
I hope to be your hero ^^
But I don't get it right off the bat, give me a chance, I'll eventually get it right.
HeroPoker does want to be the site that people make there start at.
Cheers.
|
|
| 1
 |
Highcard Canada. Mar 28 2011 15:47. Posts 5428 | | |
| | On March 28 2011 11:26 Ket wrote:
Plz keep posting dude, very interested in hearing about ur experiences starting a poker site up |
QFT
God damn this blog is going to be interesting and like i said when the 1st thread came up about heropoker, it's the 1st time I might actually hope on a new skin. |
|
| I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time | |
|
| 1 | |
Its still a work very much in progress, but if you guys give me your input and if I can put in the current business context,
I'm sure I'll give it as good run as any.
Cheers,
David |
|
| 3
 |
PuertoRican United States. Mar 28 2011 20:20. Posts 13103 | | |
Glad to see you finally posting blogs at the better of the two Liquid sites, welcome.  |
| |
|
| 1 | |
| | On March 28 2011 19:20 PuertoRican wrote:
Glad to see you finally posting blogs at the better of the two Liquid sites, welcome. |
lol, thanks *gulp, gulp, ah...tasty*;
I'm actually now posting at 3 different sites,
but will pay a hot poker chick to post and represent Hero Poker at the twoplustwo forums,
I think I'd get eaten alive there regardless of my intentions, so I'm sending in the girl to battle it out with them, I think its a sound strategy.
But its refreshing to actually talk about what I do and really flush it out in the open.
Cheers. ^^ |
|
| |
|
Contact Users: 421 Active, 1 Logged in - Time: 08:15
