Villain is 60/14 over 46. A 7 is definitely in his preflop and flop calling range but tbh any higher cards, cards that are the same colours as the cards on the table, face cards and any card with an integer on them are in his flop calling range.

are you asking if there's value in raising?

heh, I guess I ought to be raising here to valuetown a T now the board has paired and left me proof against 3To and the like. I was asking if I should /wrists "fucker has the 7" call but yeah, actually I should probably be raising here. Too result orientated I guess.

I don't know if you should be raising if you have no idea what he does, but considering folding is insane for less than 1/3 pot vs a fish

i would assume villain holds weak 10 most of the times

Why would we ever think he has a 10? The 7 is kind of a gay card but you have to bet the river against this guy.

bet/fold river imo. He will call with any pair and raise 7x ++. You miss a ton of value by cheking.

Villain has ~$4 left after the turn, just shove river wtf are you guys discussing anyway

lol didnt noticed, assumed full stack.

+ Show Spoiler + [what he actually had]

cc aint bad but u do it for the wrong reason, very wrong. You have the best hand vast majority of the time here, question is if shove for value or pick up the many draw combos he has. If rly passive postflop shove, if you ve seen him being aggro and think hed bluff air and bet weak pair c shove. You just dont
fold your hand ever.

c/c is bad no matter what the reason

Then I was right to make this topic and feel so uncomfortable about c/c here. I feel a large amount of his range here are hands that have missed completely and will insta fold a bet. The ones which have hit now consist of a made hand, a T of some kind, an overpair (beats me) or a 7 (beats me). I felt I had little to gain in betting to valuetown a T although I guess if I assume I'm getting valuetowned by a 7 or an overpair then I also don't lose much by betting river because those hands take my money anyway. I didn't consider inducing a bluff as a strategy at all and was somewhat surprised by it when it happened so I can't present how that worked out as some kind of optimal strategy. I just felt like I didn't like the river and while I was prepared to call a bet I didn't want to make it any larger than it had to be. As I did it I hated my line but that spot makes me uncomfortable which is why I posted the hand.

How do you play a river oop when you've been leading with a strong hand throughout against their presumably drawing hand and a bad card comes? I always feel so weak there and check just to make it all go away.

If an A had come on the river what would you advocate?

Against really terrible players who play too many hands and call too much, if you have a good hand then you should just make lots of big bets until all of the money is in the pot. The river bet is key because that is your biggest bet and it's where you make the most money. All in-depth thought is out the window against guys like this when you have a strong hand. Jam if an ace comes on the river or any other card.

if hes suqer passive then cc sucks so much, you let him check hands u beat and value a 7. He will snap you with any pp here when you bet fish love to call on paired boards because 'i called turn and nothings changed'

It's precisely because the river is the biggest bet that I feel so shitty about being aggressive when I feel like they've outdrawn me on it. I make my money on the shitty calls they make with negative EV but their calls become a lot less shitty when their implied odds are through the roof because I'm a massive donor. I just think "wtf was the point in making them make those shitty calls if I'm now gonna pay them". Maybe it's confirmation bias and selective memory but it just puts me massively on tilt when I bet their stack knowing they fold if they've still missed and call when they hit their out.

This guy is so loose and passive I think you are losing value against his 2's and 3's and possibly A highs who are going to snap call your allin on this river. Fish love to be heroes and put people on whiffed overcards.

On February 12 2013 15:29 KwarK wrote: It's precisely because the river is the biggest bet that I feel so shitty about being aggressive when I feel like they've outdrawn me on it. I make my money on the shitty calls they make with negative EV but their calls become a lot less shitty when their implied odds are through the roof because I'm a massive donor. I just think "wtf was the point in making them make those shitty calls if I'm now gonna pay them". Maybe it's confirmation bias and selective memory but it just puts me massively on tilt when I bet their stack knowing they fold if they've still missed and call when they hit their out.

Only thing you ask yourself before considering a value bet against passive guy is "Does my hand have >50% equity against his calling range?" If the answer is yes, bet if the answer is no, then check and decide if you have odds to call against his betting range.

It's that simple no rocket science and actions on previous streets are irrelevant.

not betting this river is criminal

I think the best way to put this in perspective is to think of ranges. We are never folding, so much is already decided. The definition of a passive fish is someone with a way wider calling range than betting range. Sure, When we c/c he will bet 7x and better, and mb some bluffs so we are basically getting valuetowned. Most of the time, he checks back and we miss value. When you shove, he is prolly calling ace high and better. If river is a Q or a K this is still an ez shove, and prolly still a shove on an Ace.

Basically, if the money is going in on the river, u are better against his calling range than his betting range.

you need to bet here.

ez shove innit?

Such a trivial decision, why all the discussion. Put him allin.