the villian is a 23/18 over 700 hands, turn agression is 2,9 - he has been trappy with me , and also floated flops , raised turns and checked back rivers so far. He SNAP shoved the river which indicates that he might have had the hand on the turn. Is this too good of a hand to fold the river ? Might he be shiping worse for value here ?

also this might be a bit loose open from UTG, but still what do we think here?

i prefer to check call turn vs this player type.
As played this is really tough ...i would probably tank and fold the river because of the diamond.

There is only one right button to press here.

On July 22 2013 14:58 cariadon wrote: There is only one right button to press here.

wtf are you even talking about

On July 22 2013 15:40 redrain0125 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 22 2013 14:58 cariadon wrote: There is only one right button to press here. wtf are you even talking about

I thought i'd leave a fresh comment. The ones latelty are analysing everything from what you ate for breakfast to where you plan on staying when you go on vacation and ending in a big "i don't know man!"

If you didn't get it yet, i think this is a very easy call. What kind of advice is it to tank fold, like there is a difference between tank folding and just folding? And the difference river being a dimond makes is irrelevant when it comes to statistics. Making a razorthin fold because of a backdoor flush on a paired board... what has this game come to? If this is the case 50nl seems insanely hard and 100nl must be unbeatable.

Probably we should be happy that this time you only needed 3 replies and about 130 words to express your simple opinion that "its 100% an easy call" and my advise is "100% bullshit" while,as always, trolling people that post hands you view as standard.

Some things to consider:
Raising 65s utg in the first place.
If you are mixing it up with 65s what kind of a favorable outcome are you looking for? This is as good as it gets, you are viewed as TT+ here so well trapped, now easy call and he will turn over 9x often enough.
Your decision for river should be made on turn when you call so the advice to timebank shows inconsistency in your thinking and shouldn't be recommended or even mentioned unless you want to be perceived as clueless.
Raising 65s utg and folding a straight with it on river are two opposite extremes. Doing it wrong both ways is a sure thing to punch a hole in your bankroll.

On July 24 2013 08:15 cariadon wrote: Your decision for river should be made on turn when you call so the advice to timebank shows inconsistency in your thinking and shouldn't be recommended or even mentioned unless you want to be perceived as clueless. Raising 65s utg and folding a straight with it on river are two opposite extremes. Doing it wrong both ways is a sure thing to punch a hole in your bankroll.

Solid post this time.
My main advise has been to check call the turn though ,to avoid getting in a tough spot vs this particular villain.
If you bet and then feel bad vs a raise+big river bet ,you shouldnt bet in the first place.

You also forgot that eluflop had some reads on that guy,particularly the read that he raised the turn and gave up on the river.
Thats the reason why i think its fine to just call on turn and reevaluating the river completely.
Furthermore i didnt give HIM the advise to timbank the river...this is just ridicilous.
I was just saying that i would probably have tanked that river vs that particluar villain with that betting size and then might have made the fold because the diamond are the additional 2-3% of hands that i dont beat.In other words,by "tanking" i just wanted to emphasize that for me,playing 50 and 100NL these days, this is a very tough spot and very much foldable.

If you bet you really have two options
a) you fold
b) you call and never fold any river besides a 9 (like what the fuck really changed? if you don't make your hand you fold and if you make your hand you fold aswell? what kind of logic is that?! naive and stupid call)

It doesn't need to be said as advice, just writing it emphasises the difficulty of the spot for you. People pick up on these cues unconciously and it sticks with them. Next time you are in a situation where you have already timebanked for a while you are biased to fold. If anything the notes he has on villain are supportive of not folding because if he shows a lot of agression it means he has a wider range on turn thus enabling us to make the assumption he has to shove trips and maybe something weaker for value here to compensate for his mindless agression. (Even though i don't believe 50nl players are good enough to actually pull this shit off consistently, sure they know about these things but have immense problems being disciplined and putting these concepts to work.) If you fold here you should seriously go back to the drawing board and re-evaluate your preflop game. 2-3% from the diamond don't outweigh the ridiculously small percentage of times when you actually make a hand that beats other valuehands with 65s.
Also the turn call is hideous and i seriously doubt the profitability of it. For me this is such a big mistake it is not even worth mentioning. You raise a valid point with check/calling. Deciding whether to bet or check/call on turn both have their time, place and opponent and being able to pick the better option most of the time really sets a regular apart from the rest. For this, there is no recommendation other than to meditate over it, trust your gut and to take mental notes.

Calling river and losing is best described as coup de grace.