fold pre? bottom of range?

lol fold pre wtf

we probably reach river with a range of something along the lines of J9s T9s 98s 87s 76s 65s 54s JJ TT 77 55 99 66 44 and maybe 33 (i personally fold 88 on turn since its a 2 out underpair that blocks straight draws, others might call it). i dont think we should raise our sets before river cause our calling range is pretty weak

definitely calling 333+ on river. lets call that 24 combos of hands. other combos total: 34 by my rough count. that strategy is a bit exploitable and we probably should call something else so that we only fold ~50% on river. should probably add in a few AA to get to the river to help out. maybe call with the JJ TT combos that are more towards the top of our range and may occasionally beat some weird merge or light vbet with 9x. would feel ok folding this on both the getting 2.5:1 front and the game theory need to defend enough hands front, dont have any reason to believe without info that his barreling range here is too weighted towards air to call and would rather call TT+ for game theory

If i opted to play this hand pre i'm def shoving that turn...pick up 4 more outs + the fact that i'll be thinking he's lighter than your standard value 3 bet range. So i'll be expecting folds often enough to make a shove profitable..and we don't need folds that often.

On October 17 2013 14:06 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: lol fold pre wtf

I mean to the 3bet

On October 17 2013 15:00 GoTuNk wrote: Show nested quote + On October 17 2013 14:06 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: lol fold pre wtf I mean to the 3bet

yeah i know lol...

On October 17 2013 15:03 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: Show nested quote + On October 17 2013 15:00 GoTuNk wrote:   On October 17 2013 14:06 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: lol fold pre wtf I mean to the 3bet yeah i know lol...

so if we open 30% on CU, 76s is bottom third of our range for sure right?
(not that it's not worth discussing what to do when calling, but can't really add anything there ;p)

On October 17 2013 14:36 Daut wrote: we probably reach river with a range of something along the lines of J9s T9s 98s 87s 76s 65s 54s JJ TT 77 55 99 66 44 and maybe 33 (i personally fold 88 on turn since its a 2 out underpair that blocks straight draws, others might call it). i dont think we should raise our sets before river cause our calling range is pretty weak definitely calling 333+ on river. lets call that 24 combos of hands. other combos total: 34 by my rough count. that strategy is a bit exploitable and we probably should call something else so that we only fold ~50% on river. should probably add in a few AA to get to the river to help out. maybe call with the JJ TT combos that are more towards the top of our range and may occasionally beat some weird merge or light vbet with 9x. would feel ok folding this on both the getting 2.5:1 front and the game theory need to defend enough hands front, dont have any reason to believe without info that his barreling range here is too weighted towards air to call and would rather call TT+ for game theory

Too good. Why would you give away stuff like this?!

Yea fold seems fine.
Gotunk it's standard to call this 3bet with 76ss, we aren't concerned about the rake at this level to make it -EV

also gotunk, if we had 3x'ed and the sb made it 10.5x fold would be standard. but 2x -> 7x is a much easier call to make

Good post Daut. But is JJ in our range here? Aren't we preflop 4betting JJ and felting most of the time, unless they are folding to 4bets a to much? Just asking cause this is pretty much the standard way I play JJ, unless villain's numbers are way off.

You are overthinking this Daut, a sick merge with 9x, come on....

vs more unknown villians i think its quite spewy to be playing JJ for stacks here and just donking off to randomness.

NL200+ zoom ppl are way tighter than they used to be at getting in pre -AndrewBoccia"

well yeah they're probably tighter but I think it's just even more polarized than it used to

but then again, today I got 4bet btn vs sb where it felt villain was really nitty 4bet wise, anyway I still jammed my QQ and he snap called with AJs for 100bb lol...

On October 17 2013 20:07 Baalim wrote: You are overthinking this Daut, a sick merge with 9x, come on....

yea, in practice i wouldnt call off with JJ/TT here (may even fold them on the turn if i dont feel like shits right). but IF you are playing someone really tough and want to be unexploitable you should call off with those hands because even though its probably around a 1-2% chance he shows up with 9x here its still a better call off than with 76.

also fayth, btn vs sb is a very different story where lots of guys are raising 70% and sb is 3betting up to 15-20% sometimes so 4b calling AJs there isnt as bad vs a lot of dudes. cutoff vs sb is more like a 27 vs 7 range which has lots of tighter stackoffs.