Assume he's good
I'll look at the hand/ranges later would be nice if you can comment

I think 88 is a shove btw but had to think about it

i see no reason to turn our hand into a bluff

What hands is he trying to get value from on this board texture? Its either a bluff or ur beat.

shove is horrible man why would you shove here. its either call or fold.

ingame thought all flushes and TJ bet turn and this is the strongest hand I ever have here pretty much

Nah I dont think you can find a fold vs unknown here
He s probably thin vbetting a ton of shit, doubt he bluffs much


You dont know if he bets all flushes tbh, he could easily be c/c or c/ring a flush on the turn cause of trickiness wannabe

yeah I guess I kinda thought he can X hands like AA KK AQ some on the turn as they kinda hate a raise there and the Q just hits my range sooo freaking well.
guess he can check flushes for the same reason pretty much tho
the turn is probably a good board to bet and shove river from my perspective? Ofc not with 88 with 2 outs no blockers

edit: Fuck this takes so much time with equilab I need to learn CREV or flopzilla or whatever you wizards are using
I've been looking at preflop pretty much playing with ranges but when it gets branched out by street and line equilab just becomes unmanageable

i guess im a lag tard becuase their is no way i falt the river ever

I think rep a flush or a straight, make it seem bluffy, get more money in!! I bet that's what longple would do!!

speaking of which
1) Worst hand I call ?
2) Worst hand I shove ?
3) do I ever bluff raise rvr here?

this is either a shove or call

unfortunately for you, the way this played out you likely have nothing you can shove for value. just not that much that flats pre, flats the flop, checks back turn and is strong enough to jam over the river bet. maybe if somehow you reach the river with specifically like K6hh or Axhh that didnt raise flop and got tricky on turn (i do think you should check back K and A high flushes that flatted flop on the turn but they are raising so frequently), but id be raising most flush draws on the flop and betting most flushes on the turn so i likely reach the river with a flush a very small % of the time. i would just make sure you are calling enough here. would likely call with J9 T9 TT JJ and all better hands than JJ. folding 7x underpairs, K9 A9 (no blockers).

i suppose if for some reason you have a hand like Ah9x thats a good candidate to raise on the river, but im probably not bluff raising here almost ever. maybe T8s? just to balance the times you do raise with a flush. but meh doesnt matter too much to have bluff raises here

well given this info: Villain reg unknown 3bet me 2/3 opportunities 54/46 over 16 hands, i think i might raise. He would think its much more likely u playing back at him.
btw sick lol at even thinking about folding in the comments

results?

I shove cos I don't want to be checking back flushes on the turn.

Thanks Daut, good stuff

And yes dnagardi it was the first time I played back - he is more likely to think that I'm pissed good point.
I was also surprised at people saying I can consider folding? I think it's rly close, but I personally do bet all flushes on the turn here so I have like 33% of the 3 TJs combos I float flop with and sometimes X turn so this hand is way stronger than I should ever have here and he should get curious.

1) Worst hands I call

Don't expect people to go bet/check/bet here as a bluff almost ever, especially not for that sizing so I'd fold at an exploitatively high frequency. QJdd bottom.

2) Worst hand I shove

Vs curious battling regs, shove 98s/88, they will not fold AA-KK/AQ/KQ/QJs type hands very often.

Vs nits you will just value town yourself with those hands so I'd have no value shove range.

3) do I bluff raise rvr here

Vs battling regs, no bluff shove range

Vs the nits, bluff hands with good blockers Ahx, Khx, Qhx, Jhx, 9x

On February 15 2014 15:58 Daut wrote: i suppose if for some reason you have a hand like Ah9x thats a good candidate to raise on the river, but im probably not bluff raising here almost ever. maybe T8s? just to balance the times you do raise with a flush. but meh doesnt matter too much to have bluff raises here

I float flop with the Ah+2overs a bunch
AhQd, AhQs, AhQc, AhJd, AhJs, AhJc, AhTd, AhTs, AhTc
Think most of the time it's best to just bet turn shove river with the blocker; expect to print money , but I'd check them behind some as I'd hate a check shove and hands like AhT AhJ might be rly good for shoving the river with since I block 100% nutflushes and the straight some if he checks TJ for whatever reason right?


The problem with ultra narrow value range remains of course though, rly like Smufts take on it to shove these vs nits give up against someone likely to get curious like this guy, but stick in 89 88

I think you're leveling yourself a lot with that 2/3 opportunities = 3bet. I mean its one thing for him to level himself in a preflop/flop war, its quite another when he faces a river shove on a really shitty board. And you should never get into such leveling wars even preflop with basically no info, cause then you start playing the guessing game. You should completely ignore such small hand sample as if it were non existent. I d only trust to some part such sample for guys like 80/10 or 80/0 .. some obvious fish, while this guy could easily be a 10/8 nit that ran extremely hot past couple of hands.

for small samples I use approximation/guesstimate of this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_inference
it's rly well explained in mathematics of poker

Considering folding? wtf?

I thought I was on the relatively tightish side of things compared to most, and I never ever ever fold here.

This whole entire hand discussion blows my mind actually. I'm raising the shit outta this. With my set. For value.

Let's try not to get too fancy vs nl50 noobs. Just click call and note what he shows up with. Then adjust Yur shoving/calling range accordingly

Seriusly no one folds here? What did he show up with?

On February 15 2014 23:29 nerdonpoker wrote: Seriusly no one folds here?

LOL

i see people lately focusing too much on balance in games and spots that taking a exploitive approach is waaaaaaay superior.

On February 15 2014 17:32 Smuft wrote: 1) Worst hands I call Don't expect people to go bet/check/bet here as a bluff almost ever, especially not for that sizing so I'd fold at an exploitatively high frequency. QJdd bottom. 2) Worst hand I shove Vs curious battling regs, shove 98s/88, they will not fold AA-KK/AQ/KQ/QJs type hands very often. Vs nits you will just value town yourself with those hands so I'd have no value shove range. 3) do I bluff raise rvr here Vs battling regs, no bluff shove range Vs the nits, bluff hands with good blockers Ahx, Khx, Qhx, Jhx, 9x

On February 16 2014 04:17 Baalim wrote: i see people lately focusing too much on balance in games and spots that taking a exploitive approach is waaaaaaay superior.

couldn't agree more, it's all over 2p2 lol

results?

shoved he tank folded