im thinking here, how often Should i turn my hand into a bluff ? Because it pretty hard for him to call here.

how often do you have a flush here?

these shove 100% of the time:
AcQd,AcQh,AcQs,AcQc

I doubt people check call river enough at NL100 right? If that's so I'd defo ship your hand too block QQ AA KQ that *might* cc some, there isn't many better blocker hands, Kx you prolly don't turn into bluff v unknown.

If he's good just count your value combos and play with bluff ratio based on what you know about him

set of k or q isn't folding here lemon, I don't think anyway. I know I sure as shit wouldn't.

But yeah, I'm absolutely not happy calling a shove on river holding tptk here. j10 got there, flushes, etc. etc. Yep, I fold ak to a shove, don't you guys on the river?

Bluffing = shit.

4handed it would be a mistake for him to fold better.

No.

On May 22 2014 12:42 devon06atX wrote: set of k or q isn't folding here lemon, I don't think anyway. I know I sure as shit wouldn't.

my point, those are fine hands to cc here blocking QQ is good

On May 22 2014 12:42 devon06atX wrote: set of k or q isn't folding here lemon, I don't think anyway. I know I sure as shit wouldn't. But yeah, I'm absolutely not happy calling a shove on river holding tptk here. j10 got there, flushes, etc. etc. Yep, I fold ak to a shove, don't you guys on the river?

Yeah I check fold AK vs a reg without dynamic. AcKx gets close here

I expect any decent villain to value shove KK/QQ here all day long wtf. And wouldn't be surprised if he value shoves AA as well.

if that's the case snapshove AQ innit

FPS

nit

listen to cariadon

if you never shoving AQ, you wont have any bluffs to balance with your value shove range ( TJ and flushes )
unless you are calling 2 barrels with TT or AT something

this is great spot to be bluffing, hero has basically 0 bluffs in his range that are not pairs turned into bluffs ( which is rare )
I would even snap fold this HU if im in villain shoes, wtf, Im even c/folding AA in his place

the problem is that you have SD value and u beat a good % of his checking range OTR, so Im not sure if you need to turn your AQ into bluff

and btw, villain is folding almost everytime he checks the river, because it's dumb to c/c with QQ KK instead of shoving there, like he thinks hero will turn WHAT into bluff on this river ???
c/c would only make sense if hero is turning a pair into a bluff more often than he's calling the shove with a worse hand than QQ/KK

e z shove

wouldn't it be best for villan to bet river, rather than c/c

On May 22 2014 20:09 drone666 wrote: and btw, villain is folding almost everytime he checks the river, because it's dumb to c/c with QQ KK instead of shoving there, like he thinks hero will turn WHAT into bluff on this river ??? c/c would only make sense if hero is turning a pair into a bluff more often than he's calling the shove with a worse hand than QQ/KK

Good point I assumed some hands might be good co check call here like AcAx AcKx to not always check fold

but you're right on this board most people like Cariadon play level 1 with 2 cards and don't even think about turning something as "strong" as AQ into bluff, there shouldn't be floats worse than Qx ever I assume it should be okay to value shove everything and check fold 100% of the time in villain's shoes

I find it funny that people who say they fold AA here headsup or AK or whatever expect everyone else to do the same thus making themselves believe shoving is really good here with AQ. The truth of the matter is... not everyone is as "good" or "nitty" or whatever you want to be called to be able to make awesome (or questionable) folds with really good hands. If villain flipped over AA would you try and bluff him off it? I wouldn't. Neither should you. We beat everything else. GTO leads to a lot of FPS. Picture TalentedToms avatar everyone rocked on ps back when 200nl was a walk in the park, close your eyes and listen to TTs voice. I only expect ggplz to know what i meant with that. The rest can stick to fps.

On May 23 2014 11:31 cariadon wrote: I find it funny that people who say they fold AA here headsup or AK or whatever expect everyone else to do the same thus making themselves believe shoving is really good here with AQ. The truth of the matter is... not everyone is as "good" or "nitty" or whatever you want to be called to be able to make awesome (or questionable) folds with really good hands. If villain flipped over AA would you try and bluff him off it? I wouldn't. Neither should you. We beat everything else. GTO leads to a lot of FPS. Picture TalentedToms avatar everyone rocked on ps back when 200nl was a walk in the park, close your eyes and listen to TTs voice. I only expect ggplz to know what i meant with that. The rest can stick to fps.

questionable fold ? awesome fold ?? nitty ? wtf, that would be the easiest fold in the world, dont know if you play poker, but if your standard vs ANY type of player is to c/c here with AA, I doubt that you can even beat nl10 online nowadays, is just awful and makes 0 sense

you basically have no idea how poker works, and you are just clicking buttons praying to get lucky and win hands instead of using your brain to realize whats the best play, you gave no real arguments to reinforce your opinion, you are just using retard arguments like " TT would do x" and "LOLOLOL FPS" and you sound like a retard

I didnt said shoving 100% is the best option here, because you want villain to fold a really tiny part of his range that beats you and he check/folds, I said if you are not shoving AQ here, you won't have a bluffing range because unless you are clicking buttons ( so ignore this part ) you won't have worse hands to shove here as bluff and your range will be totally unbalanced when you shove OTR with 100% value hands ( which is bad in case villain is not braindead like you )

I will teach you how to give a proper advice:

@ Euflop, things you want to consider if you thinking about having a shoving as bluff range ( I can't make assumptions for you and give you a 100% sure advice like "shove" "check" because I dont play 6max and I dont know dynamics or if people are as bad as cariodon):

ask yourself if you think villain is check/calling more ofen than he's check/folding with hands that beat you, you need him to be folding a little over 50% ( because shove would be an overbet ) of times he has AK+, so if you think he's c/calling better hands more often he's c/folding you shouldn't have a bluffing range of course, you won't know for sure what he's doing, but you can make a few assumptions to make simulations to discover if it's close or not to have a bluffing range here

1. lets assume villain is ALWAYS checking with his entire value range ( which would be dumb, but just to give the example how you should think in spots like this )
2. he's check folding AKo, AKs and AA here, and check/calling with KK, QQ, KQo, KQs and JTs

so he's folding 12 combos and calling with 14 combos, so in this case you shouldnt have a bluffing range here and you will be making more money by having a totally unbalanced range with 100% value hands

but ofc, villain is not check calling his entire value range here, because it's dumb to have a check calling range here since Hero dont have enough hands to turn into a bluff, and a lot of hands on Hero's range that would call a river shove will check back the river when villain checks

so it gets CLOSE if villain does shove 14% of his value range here instead of check calling ( and he should do 100% of the time at least with hands that he would c/c )
villain should have other flushes in his range ofc but I doubt he's check/calling instead of shoving

but anyway,
if you think villain is c/calling better hands more often than he's c/folding = shouldnt have a bluffing range
if you think villain is c/folding better hands more often than he's c/calling = you should shove your entire range
if you dont know what villain is going to do, you can choose to be perfectly balanced and unexploitable in this spot, and that's what I advise you to do

if you choose the third option, I will just answer your first question, how often should you turn you hand into a bluff:

1. try to think about your entire value shoving range, and count the combos

2. see what's the pot odds you are giving to vilain on the call when you shove
In this case you are shoving 69 into 62 so you are giving villain roughly 33% on the call, so that's the frequency your shoving range should be a bluff

3. so if you have like 20 combos of value you should be bluffing with 10 combos of bluffs
How to choose the better hands in your range to bluff ? hands that blocks his value range would be better to bluff with, so bluffing with any club blocker is better, so I dont know about your ranges, how many flush combos you have, if you are defending TJo vs 2 barrels or if you are calling 2 barrels with worse hands than AQ, but to be honest doesnt really matter, since AQ is the best hand to bluff with and you have 12 combos of AQ, so depending on how many value combos you have in your range when shoving, you can shove all your AQ here as bluff ( if you have at least 24 combos of value you can shove all your AQ's here )

it's really hard to do all this while you are playing, but if you do enough simulations off table you can get a rough idea on how often you should be bluffing in spots and will assure you are not bluffing too much, and having a rough idea is better than click buttons

Nobody worth taking advice from will prefer shove over checking back. Back on your lowstakes FPS train, choo choo. Didn't even bother to read past the sentence where you think you have something to say to me.

If he flipped over AK would you try and bluff him? If the answer is yes you need to get your head examined.

damn, you are dumber than I thought, doubt you can beat nl2

btw, HU4rollz ?

didnt read comments but prob do the opposite of whatever cariadon says as his mental retardation is well-documented on these forums

bigredhoss, shove or check back? give us your 2 cents

Hey drone666 i was already playing 1/2 before you started with poker, took the money and ran and now have moved on to greener pastures. Your roll is so small it isn't worth my time.

if drone's roll is too small for cariadon's time, put me first in line to buy action at whatever stakes are needed to pique cariadon's interest.

ohhh, that explains a lot, he used to play poker back in the day when 3bet light was considered cheating, now he's giving 2004 poker advices when he used to crush

i agree 100% with drone666, don't think we beat anything on the river would bluff 93% of the time here

do u really think he snaps with AK here cariadon ????

yes, i would too
would you really shove if you knew for a fact he had AK+?

4handed AK tptk getting 2 good bets in, there's no turning back. in poker you make money with good hands not some mumbo jumbo excuses for FPS
AQ has good sd value
AK 4handed TPTK for one buyin, yes please, all day

Some things don't change with years. AQ turned into a bluff is garbage because we have awesome showdown value and shoving won't get called by worse ever. I haven't said bluffing with some other combination in heros the range is terrible, just AQ.

Seeing as everyone is so eager to apply their "higher knowledge of the game" i couldn't fault people who check rivers with monsters as villains although wouldn't advocate doing it, enough FPS to go around here.

LOL, what other combinations of cards that are not straights, 2 pairs and flushes, that are worse than AQ and better to turn into a bluff on the river ( blocks villains stronger range ) that are playing this way calling 2 barrels ??
clicking buttons, you are not even thinking about whats your range there, also checking river with monster to induce also doesnt make sense since most people aren't good enough to bluff with AQ here, and hero doesnt have missed draws or anything else to turn into a bluff other than pairs ( and that's why villain should be check/folding everytime he checks on the river, and shoving everything else he wants to stack off )

you are not in 2004 anymore and your advices are shit and makes no sense