I raise

you can also call. If hearts come it's an easy fold... if a 2 or 7 comes, your checking range was pretty weak as if you were holding 1 high heart...

I was considering if raise might be good. If you could minimize flushes from their ranges it obviously becomes a better option. Raise may even be called light because your flop check last to act is incongruent with you having a flush on the turn. Raise also gets direct value out of 1 card Ah flush draws and protects ur JJ from shitty little pair+low heart or just naked non Ah hearts that fold to raise but river you if given a free card. Jam even prices out the naked Ah but that might be a bit of an overbet not sure.

Main downside to shoving/raising is obviously valuetowning urself. 2 other players (should be 3 lol wtf openfolding haha) put money in the pot ahead of you on the turn and could potentially have a wide range of flushes.

Turn call only has one real downside i see. Some naked Ah type hands that would have called a turn raise may now just give up and check fold blank rivers. On the plus side though calling turn allows air to continue bluffing river. Even those Ah hands that might give up river usually bet because on non paired boards they still have the nut blocker. If a 4th heart hits you can safely fold in position. If the board pairs again you are in a great spot with position ready to raise any bet all in.

i like calling with position. it seems really tough to get called by worse, since we are not repping a bluff at all by shoving into two live hands (keycash and ... wait, pekarinu open folded flop? wtf lol nvm). even then it seems insane to be shoving with a non-value hand in this spot. shove is good cause it protects our hand and stuff but i just can't find any bluffs in our shoving range.

e: i think a smaller raise would be better than a shove, since it allows us to pure bluff for a cheaper price. if we say, raise to ~13, it's pretty tough on hands like AhX or Qx-no-hearts. we could be doing this with really weak stuff like random gutters with no heart. if we're called though we should prob give up river

On January 02 2015 20:19 fira wrote: i like calling with position. it seems really tough to get called by worse, since we are not repping a bluff at all by shoving into two live hands (keycash and ... wait, pekarinu open folded flop? wtf lol nvm). even then it seems insane to be shoving with a non-value hand in this spot. shove is good cause it protects our hand and stuff but i just can't find any bluffs in our shoving range. e: i think a smaller raise would be better than a shove, since it allows us to pure bluff for a cheaper price. if we say, raise to ~13, it's pretty tough on hands like AhX or Qx-no-hearts. we could be doing this with really weak stuff like random gutters with no heart. if we're called though we should prob give up river

I agree with calling, but I'm quite sure if we raise small anyone with a flush will jam and will call the weaker stuff (prolly jam sets aswell)

On January 02 2015 22:56 GoTuNk wrote: Show nested quote + On January 02 2015 20:19 fira wrote: i like calling with position. it seems really tough to get called by worse, since we are not repping a bluff at all by shoving into two live hands (keycash and ... wait, pekarinu open folded flop? wtf lol nvm). even then it seems insane to be shoving with a non-value hand in this spot. shove is good cause it protects our hand and stuff but i just can't find any bluffs in our shoving range. e: i think a smaller raise would be better than a shove, since it allows us to pure bluff for a cheaper price. if we say, raise to ~13, it's pretty tough on hands like AhX or Qx-no-hearts. we could be doing this with really weak stuff like random gutters with no heart. if we're called though we should prob give up river I agree with calling, but I'm quite sure if we raise small anyone with a flush will jam and will call the weaker stuff (prolly jam sets aswell)

we're calling a jam, so if they have a set or flush its going in either way

with weaker stuff, if they are calling i dont think they are getting odds. even like AhX or Th9o can't really call the $13 raise profitably OOP vs a value range. if they do call thats fine, we can fold or checkback heart rivers and jam anything else. if they call with AhX, good. only bad scenario is if they both call and one guy has AhX and other has KTc or something, but even then i think i'm fine with it. it's gonna be especially tough for Keycash to do anything, since he doesnt know if other guy is calling or not and also has the worst position