pretty sure I misplayed this badly, I dont like my turn bluff cuz he could be drawing and wouldnt fold till the river, dont like the river check or the fold cuz he couldve been bluffing and I had good pot odds. I think maybe a check/call line wouldve been better? I was thinking to fold AK/AQ by betting the flop, but AK probably doesnt fold to 1 bet and im not sure about AQ either.

Well you dont want AK/AQ to fold the flop, you're betting it to get value & protection out of them those are two different things
Anyways i'm probably not betting the turn, but betting it and c/fing is fine @ river I guess

if you bet 5.75 on the flop you can actually push that turn.
You always seem to try to get into 3 streets ,even with rather weak and vulnerable hands on draw boards out of position.

why do I want to get it in on 2 streets though, is it just because of draws? dont I fold out stuff that I want to call in a lot of situations?

On the flip side, you also get calls from stuff that auto-fold when they miss the rivers. Value! ta-daa!

or I get folds from them because they dont have enough equity to call a shove

On January 04 2015 19:50 DragOn_ wrote: why do I want to get it in on 2 streets though, is it just because of draws? dont I fold out stuff that I want to call in a lot of situations?

If you 3-betted 10,10 preflop for value, play it post flop as such, if you're scared that bigger post flop bets will only get action from bigger hands on this board then reconsider why you 3 bet preflop.

Point being, get it in on 2 streets, not 3, especially when the river is most likely to kill your hand

Or more likely - they'll call when they shouldn't

All you really wanna do in poker is get the most money in the middle of the pot as possible while you're ahead.

Letting villains draw cheaply to fold on the river doesn't accomplish that.

fwiw - I often bet half pots/whatever on flop and turn in 3bet pots. I try to do it when boards are dry though. I'm also in the middle of a sesson, so may not be able to articulate very well right now

its thin value, you dont pot rivers with top pair no kicker and I dont think I should be potting flop+shoving turn here either, its over repping my hand. why should I assume that my opponent is bad? Even if villians are calling stations and call with every flush draw and T9s, they also call with 88, 77, 22, AA, KK, QQ and JJ. The stuff I lose to outnumbers the stuff I beat, and thats before accounting for the times that they actually hit their draws on the river.

you guys pot the flop and shove the turn with your entire value 3bet range on good flops?

sorry didnt see your other replies b4 I posted that. I agree I want to get it in when im ahead, but I dont think im ahead a lot of the time here, I think I have a medium strength hand and I want to get value from ace high/low pairs/missed stuff and avoid losing my stack to an overpair or set. If I had AA or KK here I think potting/shoving is decent

edit dammit, playing too many tables. respond in a little bit

i would be jamming this turn, despite slight overbet. would do the same with all my overpairs, Kx, and all draws

betting half my stack on this turn makes it weird for the rest of my range

bro betting that turn is never a bluff, what better folds? QQ which he 4bets pre anyways?

If you wanna size for two streets bet a bit larger on the flop. The flop is wet enough that a cbet larger than half pot isn't out of line.


As played fold is probably your worst option

On January 04 2015 19:50 DragOn_ wrote: why do I want to get it in on 2 streets though, is it just because of draws? dont I fold out stuff that I want to call in a lot of situations?

If you want 3 streets then size for 3 streets. 3.4 --- 5 --- 15. Don't be scared to make a small turn bet because you price in his FDs; he has a clearly profitable call at 8.4 too and basically anything up to pot depending on what kind of implied odds hes getting out of you. If you've decided to go 3 streets rather than two you must think the value gained from a smaller betsizing vs marginal holdings (hands like A8) that would have otherwise folded to a turn jam outweighs the protection value in giving villain the worst price possible to draw. Either that or you 3 street because you need to balance and you find that 3 street bluffs are much more profitable in this spot than 2 street bluffs (they are).

ima start charging yall soon

im calling river

On January 04 2015 20:41 DragOn_ wrote: its thin value, you dont pot rivers with top pair no kicker and I dont think I should be potting flop+shoving turn here either, its over repping my hand. why should I assume that my opponent is bad? Even if villians are calling stations and call with every flush draw and T9s, they also call with 88, 77, 22, AA, KK, QQ and JJ. The stuff I lose to outnumbers the stuff I beat, and thats before accounting for the times that they actually hit their draws on the river. you guys pot the flop and shove the turn with your entire value 3bet range on good flops?

I dont pot the flop.
3/4 of the pot makes a turn push a pot sized bet,roughly.
Actually one could say , that by betting the flop with a decent size ,you get another option on the turn which isnt out of line at all,while with your line a shove is slightly too much.

Your line looks decent on really dry boards and/or with a really strong hand like AA or better here,where I dont mind most overcards on turn/river.
With your hand though,being out of position on top ,you hate most turns and rivers and you are laying a way too good prize for draws+overcards to get to the river.Also you are getting in way too many tough situations the way you played it and can get outplayed by decent opponents here holding lower ppairs and other crap .

I keep seeing you asking why people are commenting on your bet sizing in the hands you post.
You are often explaining why you are doing the sizing the way you do,but imo you often dont pay enough attention to flop pattern,relative hand strengths and position in general.

keep in mind if you don't balance the 2 street ai play here it can be easier to exploit; by its nature a 2 street strategy is less complex than 3 making it easier for the guy to figure you out. If i'm villain i will call all draws once and just catch ur ai when i hit and pretty much fold all bricks. i have ez bet when checked to on turn. you might even give off betsize tells. By betting 3sreets you would get more money out of me in non cooler situations than by always going 2 but it makes the hand more difficult to play.

I imagine the optimal mixed strategy involves some 2 street plays and some 3 street