Are you asking us what villain should be doing if he knew you held AK and didn't know his own hand?

no sry comment on the line pls

Well, if you don't bet bet ship this for value how can you bluff here?

Thought process for such a passive line?

On June 13 2015 15:19 LemOn[5thF] wrote: no sry comment on the line pls

you did everything the reverse way you should've done :D

...anybody 3 barrel bluffing this board isn't doing it right

The concept of not 3barreling any board as a bluff ever is terribly exploitable and theoretically unsound.
edit: Unless you never 3barrel a certain board for value. Basically, wherever you bet value you should also bluff against opponents that are okay.

it sounds like u may over-value balance a bit.

also, we did chk AK here ... so i dunno what u think we are 3 streeting for value cuz obviously KK chks also.

if u can figure out whats goin on here i bet this info gives your winrate a bump.

I'm talking about when we play good players. You say it's always bad when that clearly isn't the case. I also only play retards and play very exploitatively so that doesn't really go for me.

Curious as to why you would think that checking everything here is better than betting everything.If opponent knows that you are going to bet close to 100% of your range on this flop, and floats 100% of the time when u bet, we can check the turn exploitably with AK. As to why betting > checking on the flop, this board hits our 3betting range alot harder than villains calling range, alot of our hands that miss like AJ/AQ/QJ still have quite a bit of equity vs villains better holdings such as underpairs and /or undercards.If we check everything on the flop, villain gets an easier pass to later streets with part of his range he should be folding on the flop, so we make things easier for him on a board where our range will often be stronger than his. Something we should probably be trying to avoid.

there aren't a lot of hands we can multibarrel as a bluff on this board. 54s is one, XsYs another, but the majority of our no-pair range is not going to have much equity once that turn hits - a hand would need either a gutter or flush draw to continue bluffing. not sure what our 3bet pre range is exactly but if we are only 3betting ungapped suited connectors then our only legit semibluff on the flop is 54s, which got there on the turn. by the turn we're gonna have some XsYs that we decided to bet on flop, and those can become 3barrels. but other than that, the only other semibluffs are 75s and 74s which we may or may not have.

so given that we have so few semibluffs, we either need to reduce our value betting frequency to suit our lack of bluffs, or add some zero equity bluffs.

coming up with some random ranges off top of my head:

Betting range:

- AA, 66, 33
- Some Kx (lets say, the ones without backdoors)
- 77-QQ at 1/3 frequency
- 6x at 1/6 frequency
- 3x at 1/6 frequency
- Any kind of straight draw
- Any non-Ace-high backdoor flush draw with no pair
- Any Ace high with no backdoor flush draw

Check/call range:

- KK
- Some Kx (lets say, the ones with backdoors)
- 77-QQ at 2/3 frequency
- 6x at 5/6 frequency
- 3x at 5/6 frequency
- Any Ace-high with a backdoor flush draw

Check/fold range:

- Any non-Ace-high air with no backdoor

good jon on this hh

On June 14 2015 05:37 fira wrote: there aren't a lot of hands we can multibarrel as a bluff on this board. 54s is one, XsYs another, but the majority of our no-pair range is not going to have much equity once that turn hits - a hand would need either a gutter or flush draw to continue bluffing. not sure what our 3bet pre range is exactly but if we are only 3betting ungapped suited connectors then our only legit semibluff on the flop is 54s, which got there on the turn. by the turn we're gonna have some XsYs that we decided to bet on flop, and those can become 3barrels. but other than that, the only other semibluffs are 75s and 74s which we may or may not have. so given that we have so few semibluffs, we either need to reduce our value betting frequency to suit our lack of bluffs, or add some zero equity bluffs. coming up with some random ranges off top of my head: Betting range: - AA, 66, 33 - Some Kx (lets say, the ones without backdoors) - 77-QQ at 1/3 frequency - 6x at 1/6 frequency - 3x at 1/6 frequency - Any kind of straight draw - Any non-Ace-high backdoor flush draw with no pair - Any Ace high with no backdoor flush draw Check/call range: - KK - Some Kx (lets say, the ones with backdoors) - 77-QQ at 2/3 frequency - 6x at 5/6 frequency - 3x at 5/6 frequency - Any Ace-high with a backdoor flush draw Check/fold range: - Any non-Ace-high air with no backdoor

such a crap its sickening. why do you feel the need to spew random bullshit when one can compute optimal play in a couple of minutes using publicly available programs?

On June 14 2015 05:59 dogmeat wrote: Show nested quote + On June 14 2015 05:37 fira wrote: there aren't a lot of hands we can multibarrel as a bluff on this board. 54s is one, XsYs another, but the majority of our no-pair range is not going to have much equity once that turn hits - a hand would need either a gutter or flush draw to continue bluffing. not sure what our 3bet pre range is exactly but if we are only 3betting ungapped suited connectors then our only legit semibluff on the flop is 54s, which got there on the turn. by the turn we're gonna have some XsYs that we decided to bet on flop, and those can become 3barrels. but other than that, the only other semibluffs are 75s and 74s which we may or may not have. so given that we have so few semibluffs, we either need to reduce our value betting frequency to suit our lack of bluffs, or add some zero equity bluffs. coming up with some random ranges off top of my head: Betting range: - AA, 66, 33 - Some Kx (lets say, the ones without backdoors) - 77-QQ at 1/3 frequency - 6x at 1/6 frequency - 3x at 1/6 frequency - Any kind of straight draw - Any non-Ace-high backdoor flush draw with no pair - Any Ace high with no backdoor flush draw Check/call range: - KK - Some Kx (lets say, the ones with backdoors) - 77-QQ at 2/3 frequency - 6x at 5/6 frequency - 3x at 5/6 frequency - Any Ace-high with a backdoor flush draw Check/fold range: - Any non-Ace-high air with no backdoor such a crap its sickening. why do you feel the need to spew random bullshit when one can compute optimal play in a couple of minutes using publicly available programs?

lol ok then let your publicly available programs do the poker playing for you i guess.

i was just saying this is how i would play this spot, if theres something u don't like about my play how about providing some useful feedback

also im curious, if programs can solve poker spots in a couple minutes why do humans even bother discussing this game at all ~_~

similary to the previous hand on dry board, your range is so much stronger you can cbet flop 75%+, deppends on exact ranges

why is our range that much stronger? we have KK AA and more AKs, but we're gonna have less 66 33 K6s K3s 63s

why dont you just plug-in your ranges for yourself?

i did.. but u called it random bullshit <^>

i mean why dont you play w/ some gto solver for a while? instead of making random assumptions

also gl calling 63s

what random assumptions am i making? never used a gto solver before, link me?

flatting 63s as villain pre seems fine vs this sizing, i mean if its a mistake its gonna be a small one

If we are 3betting like 10%-12% vs co, co should be defending with a wider range than that , to not fold too much to 3bets. On this dryest of flops, there is little pair value which benefits the 3bettor or the co(6x and 3x should fold pre and 3bettor has more Kx than co) ,a few set combos ( provided co flats 66 or 33 to 3bets) and no draws. VIllain should not be having any k3/k6/63 in his range, not raising them pre and in the case that he does, not flattting 3bets with them. So 3bettors range> villains range on this flop and 3bettor should be continuing with a bet.Otherwise random 910/10j/89 etc with backdoors that would fold to a flop bet, get to continue for free and improve on many turn cards. Playing passive and letting a weaker range improve for free/get to showdown easier is imho a wrong approach.

villain is button, not cutoff. if i'm raising KXs on button i'm not folding to that sizing 3bet. same with ~KQo. and folding all 6x and 3x pre is just crazy... what about A3s/A6s? 67s? these hands should not be folding

i doubt those 2pair combos are in villain's range.

Dogmeat I just recently Purchashed Piosolver. Do you know any spot that is good for learning how to use it; either some forums or videos?

How many air do you have in your range on this flop fira , if u are flatting 63s and k3s to 3bets? My guess would be a shitton. Betting this flop vs a wide and weak range with all of our 3betting range should result in a ton of folds and if not, then button is floating flop with a super weak range that has little to no equity in alot of cases.It should be fairly easy to exploit that via various lines like c/c AK on the turn, or just barreling a part of our range we do not wish to c/c with, our range is much stronger after all even if we are oop.

such closed mindedness in this thread.

also ... i never said id be chking here 100% of the time.

yes, lets take theoretically incorrect open-minded lines for the greater good of all the mankind

On June 14 2015 07:58 traxamillion wrote: i doubt those 2pair combos are in villain's range. Dogmeat I just recently Purchashed Piosolver. Do you know any spot that is good for learning how to use it; either some forums or videos?

i bought pio yesterday and their documentation sux, gotta use trial and error, you get used to it after a while