i think i like his play? good hand to balance his double check-backs

lol

I think his play is horrendous, pretty sure he should just bet flop 100% with the nuts. Why would he take his best value hand and use that to "balance" his weaker check backs, just seems like he's costing himself way too much EV in the betting part of the game tree to make a very small increase to the checking back part. I mean what's the thought process, that just because he can check back the nuts twice that it prevents us from bluffing him or something?

well, i think he needs some nuts in his check back range, and the best nuts hand to do it with is one with clubs, because it requires the least amount of protection. if he never checks back any kind of QJ then his check back range becomes capped on blanks - not a huge problem if stacks are shallow so i guess it's fine here, but if it was like 500 bb deep then we are going to be run into trouble when opponent overbets blanks because we never have nuts

On August 10 2015 12:43 fira wrote: well, i think he needs some nuts in his check back range, and the best nuts hand to do it with is one with clubs, because it requires the least amount of protection. if he never checks back any kind of QJ then his check back range becomes capped on blanks - not a huge problem if stacks are shallow so i guess it's fine here, but if it was like 500 bb deep then we are going to be run into trouble when opponent overbets blanks because we never have nuts

no

On August 10 2015 05:03 fira wrote: i think i like his play? good hand to balance his double check-backs

wat

On August 10 2015 14:24 dogmeat wrote: no

well thats helpful.

On August 10 2015 14:26 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On August 10 2015 05:03 fira wrote: i think i like his play? good hand to balance his double check-backs wat

i explained my reasons... comment?

honestly i dont know why i post seriously here. there are some good posters but when i get troll comments like dogmeats its rather tilting. maybe i should leave.

lol no man don't tilt
I enjoy reading your comments!!

these replies weren't even TalentedTom oldschool level of bashing
internet poker forum will probably always be aggro by default, keep commenting

thanks.. u're obv one of the good posters here. just cant stand the ones that offer nothing and go around saying passive aggressive bullshit, its almost not worth discussing poker here. this doesnt really happen on other sites like RIO, i dont know why it happens here.

What do you think his calling range pre looks like? This board hits his range insanely well he probably shouldn't have a single hand that checks back here since there are rarely hands that don't have huge equity. Even if he does have xback range it still has good equity

Checking behind the nuts 2 times in a row with the nuts redraw in a 3bet pot is just insanely bad

why would he not have a single hand that checks back? he can check back whatever he wants... JTs... 97s... 66... QTs...

i guess the 2nd checkback is a bit unnecessary, he can bet the turn but i think the fact that we have the redraw makes it more of a checkback than not (at least on the flop). it would be bad to check back QJh imo but literally never checking back this board is not good, so if u have a checkback range u want it to be uncapped and this is THE hand to uncap that range

I ran it through Simple Postflop using the range I'd call the 3bet with (QQ-77, AQo+, ATs+, KQs, QJs, JTs, T9s) against a couple of different 3bet ranges, a linear one, which I used PokerSnowie's range for and a polarised one, which I used Janda's range from his book Applications of NLHE. Against the linear 3bet range that contains KQs we betall combos of QJs virtually 100% when checked to, against the polarised range that contains more suited connectors and flats pre with KQs instead of 3betting we're betting QJhh and QJss 100%, betting QJdd ~90% and ~QJcc 70%. I mention KQ as I imagine that protecting against KQ is one of the main reasons GTO bets 100% when villain has KQ and <100% with diamond and club combinations when it does not. That's what GTO does, but obviously we can't know both player's exact ranges or compute GTO in game, I think his play is a big mistake in real play.

Probably not massively surprising given the way the ranges are constructed preflop, but the 3bettor is checking 100% of his range with both the linear and polarised ranges on this flop