Nice call imo

are u ronin_go on stars?

whats the question though

Suppose you could fold turn, don't see what else you'd want to do differently

yea, the question is the turn, he's overbetting and my draw potential is somewhat weak, if I hit I wont have nuts
I have a good idea of what to do, but some players I talked have diff opinions about it

Are you suggesting jamming? I haven't played HU in years, but I'm guessing you don't have KQ or AJ in your range, are you 3betting those 100%? It's just a really shit board for your range and I think your range should be overfolding. With this hand you're not getting the right price and neither of your draws are to the nuts, seems like you can't call and I don't like jam given how the ranges interract. Even if you had AJ or KQ in your range I still don't think it makes that much sense to jam those hands, and therefore if you don't have any value you shouldn't have any bluffs. Maybe it works exploitatively vs some rare opponent types, but I don't think it's good

no, between folding and calling turn

no my nick is not ronin_go and if u call turn u def need to call this riv, and I would have played the hand exactly like u and note him if he has nuts here btw is he fish or reg?

On October 15 2015 14:18 Ronin88 wrote: and if u call turn u def need to call this riv

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On October 15 2015 13:00 ToT)MidiaN( wrote: Are you suggesting jamming? I haven't played HU in years, but I'm guessing you don't have KQ or AJ in your range, are you 3betting those 100%? It's just a really shit board for your range and I think your range should be overfolding. With this hand you're not getting the right price and neither of your draws are to the nuts, seems like you can't call and I don't like jam given how the ranges interract. Even if you had AJ or KQ in your range I still don't think it makes that much sense to jam those hands, and therefore if you don't have any value you shouldn't have any bluffs. Maybe it works exploitatively vs some rare opponent types, but I don't think it's good

idk i kinda like a jam here. i'd have KQo and AJo in my range. dislike 3betting all my offsuit broadways as it weakens/caps my calling range way too much and makes me susceptible to overbets on various boards. problem is, there are some hands that we might wanna call with, like some random Ax or pair+draws, if we shove all our goods here it will be bad news for our calling range if we want to have one.

so i dunno, can't say i have much experience with turn spots like this... nor do i ever do what the villain did here. do u guys think it's a good play?

Certainly not arguing that we should 3bet all offsuit broadways, but AJ and KQ are so strong and crush a calling range by so much I'd be pretty surprised if 3betting those hands wasn't significantly more +EV than flatting. Those boards where we're "capped" by not having AJ and KQ are so infrequent and make up such a small percentage of our entire flatting range that I don't think our strategy EV is going to be that much better off by having those hands in our flatting range. At least not enough to offset the extra value we get by 3betting those hands. Without running GTO solutions for all possible flops with those hands always in our 3betting range, always in our calling range or mixed at some frequency we're only guessing though. Maybe one day we'll have definitive answers!

shoving turn is bad and it looks to me like he is assuming you 3bet most if not all KQ pre and is taking advantage of his intrinsic range advantage. I could honestly see him bluffing this way to try to knock you off your entire range.

At the same time he has 16 KQ combos and if he bets turn like this with all of them we are in trouble; especially if he narrows your calling range to combodraws with this turn betsize and can get away on spade rivers giving you bad implied on the draw (plus the other half of ur draw is already dead).

I like the way you played this because obviously it is insanely hard to fold turn with your particular hand but I hate the spot and think if you know your opponent's bluffing tendencies you could fold turn. If he has KQss then you are REALLY screwed lol (wouldn't really expect that turn bet though cause what do u call with? A10o/66?

mind if i ask what you c/r this flop with Drone?

probably most 87ss 97ss 66, some AT without the spade and some gutshots with 1 spade, gutshots with hh, some J9ss J8ss, maybe 34ss,45ss

probably should x/r every gutshot + fdraw since I 3bet most of the time

I dont think you should be trying to be very balanced on your shoving range here when villian makes a considerable overbet on the turn, I assume his overbet range is NOT balanced and we can narrow it down a lot and play ideally against a narrow range

fastest snapcall ever

ambitios turn call, not a fan of it, but its not terrible, offsuit 9 is the best card for u, obv insta snap this river as he never has u on QK etc

don't think we should have a x/r range on the flop

Yep having a x/r range on this flop d be terrible imo

Results plz!!

he had KQo obv

I dont see why we shouldnt have a x/r range on this flop lol

On October 17 2015 15:16 drone666 wrote: he had KQo obv I dont see why we shouldnt have a x/r range on this flop lol

"probably most 87ss 97ss 66, some AT without the spade and some gutshots with 1 spade, gutshots with hh, some J9ss J8ss, maybe 34ss,45ss"

1st, your range construction is off by a lot on x/r range alone when your only value is 66/AT.

2nd, you have a huge problem in your x/c range after the flop on a board that heavily favors the button. So ur gonna decide to make a x/r range on flop and only hold weak ace, pair 10s and rarely any flushes going forward?

do u not see a problem with that?

On October 17 2015 15:40 AndrewSong wrote: Show nested quote + On October 17 2015 15:16 drone666 wrote: he had KQo obv I dont see why we shouldnt have a x/r range on this flop lol "probably most 87ss 97ss 66, some AT without the spade and some gutshots with 1 spade, gutshots with hh, some J9ss J8ss, maybe 34ss,45ss" 1st, your range construction is off by a lot on x/r range alone when your only value is 66/AT. 2nd, you have a huge problem in your x/c range after the flop on a board that heavily favors the button. So ur gonna decide to make a x/r range on flop and only hold weak ace, pair 10s and rarely any flushes going forward? do u not see a problem with that?

cool, so u dont have a x/r range in any flop, because im only short in 6 combos on this board

this board doesnt favor the button that much and im pretty sure its a big mistake to not have a x/r range here, you are assuming things I never said

first: Im calling with a bunch of flush draws, im x/r mostly with the gutshot + flushdraws or flushdraws with good backdoor straights
and I even said Im not x/r all the time these hands, thats why I used the words MOST and SOME

second: I still have T6 AT A6, some 66 that im calling flop with, dont know where u got that I only have weak aces and Tx and no flushes