the only 9x you have is T9hh and 98hh and you wont make the same size with 7x ( you might not have 9x , 7x at all ) , while there re tons of shit that missed, as played just give up since you rep about 5 combos

Id raise flop, we have plenty of turns to keep barreling on

Overall I cold 4bet pre or fold though, not a fan of coldcalling 3bets unless in some spots where the whale hunt is real

What about his range?

Try and do it yourself from preflop to river and ill tell you what seems off
His SB 3betting range should be around 16-18%, start from there

Technically u need 2 maybeeee 3 bluff combos here. The question there is which are best. I don't think blocking a 9 matters because i don't see him betting turn with hardly any of them oop. He is a lot more likely to have a 7 if anything and that will be the top of his range other than some j9/jj/99/77/97 river traps that you have to discount quite a bit given he will bet them for the most part on river. Qk blocks some of his c/calls like qq/kk/qj/kj but also blocks a lot of his bluffing combos that may attempt to show down or give up river like ak/aq/q10/k10. A hand like 88 or maybe 66 since 88 can show down and win vs many hands 66 cant because they block some 7x and 810 while unblocking all of his folding hands.

That said exploitatively it helps a lot to know his triple barreling tendency. If he will go 3 with most hands he bluffed turn with and perceive you to have counterfeited pairs, missed q10 etc. If he elects to c/c overpairs on this runout seeing you don't have much worse that calls and also doesn't want to fold Jx plus (knowing you wont valueshove a jack, dont have overpairs, small range to valuejam while potentially way overbluffing) all these things make a jam worse and worse. He also bets big on flop making it possible for stacks to go in which is usually an unbalanced sign of strength at this level.

feels like he c/called u with AJ/AA

On December 13 2016 22:08 Spitfiree wrote: Try and do it yourself from preflop to river and ill tell you what seems off His SB 3betting range should be around 16-18%, start from there

Let's jump straight to the river...I'd say these :

AA, KdKc, KsKc, KsKd, QdQc, QsQc, QsQd, JdJc, JsJc, JsJd, 9h9c, 7s7c, AcKc, AcKd, AcKs, AdKc, AdKd, AdKs, AhKc, AhKd, AhKs, AsKc, AsKd, AsKs, AcJc, AcJd, AcJs, AdJc, AdJd, AdJs, AhJc, AhJd, AhJs, AsJc, AsJd, AsJs, AhTh, Ac9c, Ah9h, Ah8h, Ah6h, Ah5h, Ah4h, Ah3h, Ah2h, KcJc, KdJd, KsJs, Kc7c, Ks7s, QcTc, QdTd, QsTs, Jc9c, T8s, 9c7c, 86s, 8c7c, 8s7s, 7c6c, 7s6s, 7c5c, 7s5s

That's very general because I don't think that he will double barrel all of these hands, but for the sake of the example...

On December 13 2016 23:54 traxamillion wrote: Technically u need 2 maybeeee 3 bluff combos here. The question there is which are best. I don't think blocking a 9 matters because i don't see him betting turn with hardly any of them oop. He is a lot more likely to have a 7 if anything and that will be the top of his range other than some j9/jj/99/77/97 river traps that you have to discount quite a bit given he will bet them for the most part on river. Qk blocks some of his c/calls like qq/kk/qj/kj but also blocks a lot of his bluffing combos that may attempt to show down or give up river like ak/aq/q10/k10. A hand like 88 or maybe 66 since 88 can show down and win vs many hands 66 cant because they block some 7x and 810 while unblocking all of his folding hands. That said exploitatively it helps a lot to know his triple barreling tendency. If he will go 3 with most hands he bluffed turn with and perceive you to have counterfeited pairs, missed q10 etc. If he elects to c/c overpairs on this runout seeing you don't have much worse that calls and also doesn't want to fold Jx plus (knowing you wont valueshove a jack, dont have overpairs, small range to valuejam while potentially way overbluffing) all these things make a jam worse and worse. He also bets big on flop making it possible for stacks to go in which is usually an unbalanced sign of strength at this level.

I am left with exactly 3 bluff combos

As played we gotta bluff. Not a spot we are loving but seems fine.

The only bluffs that dont shove river as played for him are AXhh since both KTs and QTs should be shoving the river.

I'm fine with bluffing if I believe he d be able to fold a Jx , which he wont, which makes our bluffs pointless

what do you mean by "pointless"

you believe we should have exclusively value here spitfire?

I believe we should never be in this spot to begin with. Our range has no value hands here while his can x/c shitton.The only value hand we have is JJ which is 3 combos. Doubt OP coldcalls 78s pre or 9T(which would be only hearts suited combo here )

So yes I believe we should exclusively not balance our 3 combos of value here because its pointless as the situation should never occur again.

Don't really analyze spots, that I would not find myself into, that deeply you fix the initial mistake and move from there which makes the discussion further ahead useless

well the cool thing about our hand is we block qq and kk. If villain is unlucky enough to have AhJx that removes so many combos of our bluffs that he just cant call. We arent turning 1010 into a bluff which actually gives us a decent value range of top set and potential QQ combos depending on our cold 4betting range. Heros 3bet is only 5% which is going to give him a tighter image on average.

I understand where you are coming from spitfire, but its still healthy to look at the highest ev play regardless of how we get there. Thats what helps us grow as poker players.

yeah I mean to me it's a mandatory bluff unless I have some very specific read on villain

agree on Fayth this is a bluff and the only way it isnt is with a strong read