what the hell, I think in otb baron spot I would reraise the shit out of this flop and hope he has 5x with those stack sizes, no one is folding ever unless a super shitty run down, weird that he decided to c/raise turn his hand seems to be super nutty

this deep+somewhat better board for oop distribution --> not sure what otb's flop strategy looks like here//what bajskorven perception of otb's flop strategy is.

On November 20 2017 03:10 locoo wrote: what the hell, I think in otb baron spot I would reraise the shit out of this flop and hope he has 5x with those stack sizes, no one is folding ever unless a super shitty run down, weird that he decided to c/raise turn his hand seems to be super nutty

what hands do you bluff 3Bet flop tho?

facing vs bet/calling, then c/r on turn is a pretty hard line to play against, compared to flop 3bet imo. i mean when someone c/r turn here it's like, really?.. fuckiddity fuck fuck. No one plays enough 700bb poker to be confident on what the actual fuck is fucking going on there.


it's not like i've studied 700bb deep poker,

it's worth 3betting flop with a lot of strong 5x and some overpairs like TT, JJ, the ones that need the most protection, imo, and then some bluff's like A6cc, perhaps some very strong combo draws. It might seem a little crazy to 3bet TT, JJ on flop but you have put some % of overpairs in a flop 3bet range, otherwise your opponent can just play perfectly against a 80-100% cbetting strategy, they can just raise flop with 7x, and bet 1/3 pot on turn, and raise for thin value, and with a ton of bluffs. You will get demolished by in position flop raises. So you have to, i guess, overplay some overpairs as a sort of merge, against a tough, aggressive opponent. I'll sim this to see if it's true or not.

On November 22 2017 09:43 Stroggoz wrote: facing vs bet/calling, then c/r on turn is a pretty hard line to play against, compared to flop 3bet imo. i mean when someone c/r turn here it's like, really?.. fuckiddity fuck fuck. No one plays enough 700bb poker to be confident on what the actual fuck is fucking going on there. it's not like i've studied 700bb deep poker, it's worth 3betting flop with a lot of strong 5x and some overpairs like TT, JJ, the ones that need the most protection, imo, and then some bluff's like A6cc, perhaps some very strong combo draws. It might seem a little crazy to 3bet TT, JJ on flop but you have put some % of overpairs in a flop 3bet range, otherwise your opponent can just play perfectly against a 80-100% cbetting strategy, they can just raise flop with 7x, and bet 1/3 pot on turn, and raise for thin value, and with a ton of bluffs. You will get demolished by in position flop raises. So you have to, i guess, overplay some overpairs as a sort of merge, against a tough, aggressive opponent. I'll sim this to see if it's true or not.

wasnt cindy talking about almost an identical scenario with 1010 jj? dont think it was as deep but im assuming the same concept applies. the hands that need the most protection need to be played as a 3bet mostly because of the equity that you're owed in the pot.

On November 22 2017 13:02 handbanana21 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2017 09:43 Stroggoz wrote: facing vs bet/calling, then c/r on turn is a pretty hard line to play against, compared to flop 3bet imo. i mean when someone c/r turn here it's like, really?.. fuckiddity fuck fuck. No one plays enough 700bb poker to be confident on what the actual fuck is fucking going on there. it's not like i've studied 700bb deep poker, it's worth 3betting flop with a lot of strong 5x and some overpairs like TT, JJ, the ones that need the most protection, imo, and then some bluff's like A6cc, perhaps some very strong combo draws. It might seem a little crazy to 3bet TT, JJ on flop but you have put some % of overpairs in a flop 3bet range, otherwise your opponent can just play perfectly against a 80-100% cbetting strategy, they can just raise flop with 7x, and bet 1/3 pot on turn, and raise for thin value, and with a ton of bluffs. You will get demolished by in position flop raises. So you have to, i guess, overplay some overpairs as a sort of merge, against a tough, aggressive opponent. I'll sim this to see if it's true or not. wasnt cindy talking about almost an identical scenario with 1010 jj? dont think it was as deep but im assuming the same concept applies. the hands that need the most protection need to be played as a 3bet mostly because of the equity that you're owed in the pot.

yeah so Cindy's hand was 240bb deep, this is 700bb deep. I think the same concepts do apply, in that you need to 3bet some middling hands like TT/JJ otherwise IP flop raises become massively +ev.

https://gyazo.com/35dc6c3e9fce2af73c58a75630434e05


That's the flop 3bet range. It's a lot more mixed than i expected, some predictions were correct, the strong 5x always 3bet. the weaker 5x mix 3bets and calls, 77 calls quite often. and then JJ/QQ/KK are the overpairs that 3bet the most, but it's barely more than the other ones. A7s is almost always 3betting flop. Actually it makes a lot of sense to 3bet JJ/QQ/KK the most now that i think of it, rather than TT/JJ. It's so it can cooler IP flop raises that have TT/JJ, which is very high frequency. The ev of this outweighs equity protection.

https://gyazo.com/8b0d5f1cceb6cab48a5d82de20128ab3 range explorer: the flop 3bet range has more marginal value hands like overpairs and top pairs than trips. it 3bets the flop with almost any flush draw but picks out a low frequency for each one, a very botlike strategy but hardly important for human poker players.

look how aggressive the flop raises are IP, that's like 24% https://gyazo.com/f9338a3a843f90fd09efe0b2dfa57d71. it would go up possibly to 30% vs someone that only 3bets 5x for value.

the solver doesn't really like taking the line otb took, it prefers just calling the turn and trapping.

oh and There is a tiny frequency of flop reraise bluff hands with low equity, and those are A6cc and A4cc, and some other random hands like A8ss https://gyazo.com/a87817ea0b6ba20c661e19868d9bdab6