Submitted by : Daut

PokerStars Game #7318850373: Hold'em No Limit ($5/$10) - 2006/12/05 - 22:39:29 (ET)
Table 'Titan V' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 2: Jenn415 ($1883 in chips)
Seat 3: p3achy_keen ($1129 in chips)
Seat 4: Daut44 ($1452 in chips)
Seat 5: CASHRUS ($1935.75 in chips)
Seat 6: BklynPok ($1704 in chips)
Seat 7: ramsey ($1029.55 in chips)
Seat 8: Peter1604 ($729.75 in chips)
Seat 9: ToofrickenEZ ($467.85 in chips)
ramsey: posts small blind $5
Peter1604: posts big blind $10
player4800: sits out

Holecards
Dealt to Daut44
ToofrickenEZ: folds
Jenn415: folds
p3achy_keen: raises $30 to $40
Daut44: raises $80 to $120
CASHRUS: folds
BklynPok: folds
ramsey: folds
Peter1604: calls $110
p3achy_keen: calls $80

Flop (Pot : $365)

   
Peter1604: checks
p3achy_keen: checks
Daut44: bets $270
Peter1604: folds
p3achy_keen: raises $739 to $1009 and is all-in
Daut44 said, "sigh"
Daut44: folds
p3achy_keen collected $902 from pot
p3achy_keen: doesn't show hand

Summary
Total pot $905 | Rake $3
Board  
Seat 2: Jenn415 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: p3achy_keen collected ($902)
Seat 4: Daut44 folded on the Flop
Seat 5: CASHRUS folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: BklynPok (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: ramsey (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: Peter1604 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: ToofrickenEZ folded before Flop (didn't bet)

are you serious obv FD

!???????????????????????????????

northface had JJ all day.

he had AJ

he had A3o

On December 05 2006 19:48 BigBalls wrote: he had AJ

is northface calling your re-raises pf oop with dominated hands?...

he said the other caller enticed him into the hand, he was going to fold

right - your basically calling to chip - i think this is very close

made this a topic cause nobody really seemed to agree with the fold
i ran a pokerstove calculation on it, and got the following:


Board: Ah 5s Js
Dead: As

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 24.9349 % 13.48% 11.45% { AcKh }
Hand 2: 75.0651 % 63.61% 11.45% { JJ, 55, AKs, AsQs, AJs, A5s, KsQs, QsTs, AKo }


ive never used pokerstove before, so i dont know why it added in the dead card (cause i left that blank). does the range i applied look ok? im getting about 2.2:1 odds on the shove, so i need around 31% equity to make this ok. I just didnt see him shoving with AQo or a small naked flush draw.

I think this is an ok fold fwiw.

i was just kidding man, go with your read. i don't know how n0rth plays lol. this line certainly looks like something a FD would do, but n0rth could be only taking this line with very strong hands precisely because it looks like a FD line. he could be taking it with a nicely randomized range of hands too. or he could just be really transparent and have a FD.

you're best qualified to make the decision, and if you felt really confident about this then i'm with you on it

peachy better be a huge nit

On December 06 2006 10:27 GroT wrote: peachy better be a huge nit

yes, i am a huge nit.

On December 06 2006 08:08 RaSZi wrote: if he had AJ he sucks big time calling u preflop in that position.. ow wait.. he does suck

yes i suck.

haha AJ was exactly the hand i put him on when i first saw the hand history. ;]

On December 06 2006 11:23 DooMeR wrote: haha AJ was exactly the hand i put him on when i first saw the hand history. ;]

Same.

JJ would make no sense. Good read Ryan.

On December 06 2006 11:52 Twisted wrote: Show nested quote + On December 06 2006 11:23 DooMeR wrote: haha AJ was exactly the hand i put him on when i first saw the hand history. ;] Same. JJ would make no sense. Good read Ryan.

is this sarcasm?

i think i have JJ here much much more than i have AJ

On December 06 2006 11:59 RaSZi wrote: true JJ is instaallin preflop for northdonk.. i dont mean to be an arrogant asshole but i really do think northface is one of the worst regulars on 5-10.. and i dont mean it insulting to him or turn this into flame.. its honest.. i think thats why i would never be able to fold this.. on the other hand he is bad enough to have AJ there

lol.

i see no need to defend myself when someone is able to post something like this in a forum. i think your post speaks much more about yourself than about me as a player.

pls go for HU

On December 06 2006 12:02 n0rthf4ce wrote: Show nested quote + On December 06 2006 11:59 RaSZi wrote: true JJ is instaallin preflop for northdonk.. i dont mean to be an arrogant asshole but i really do think northface is one of the worst regulars on 5-10.. and i dont mean it insulting to him or turn this into flame.. its honest.. i think thats why i would never be able to fold this.. on the other hand he is bad enough to have AJ there lol. i see no need to defend myself when someone is able to post something like this in a forum. i think your post speaks much more about yourself than about me as a player.

rofl... Raszi just got 12th leveled.

hmm
i think i call here against many 5/10 regs but i think i may fold here vs northface.. idk its close

i probably call cuz im a monkey

edit: i don't know if i really do call vs many 5/10 regs so i sorta take taht back

i hate that flop for AK, 2 high cards are evil.

On December 06 2006 11:59 n0rthf4ce wrote: Show nested quote + On December 06 2006 11:52 Twisted wrote:   On December 06 2006 11:23 DooMeR wrote: haha AJ was exactly the hand i put him on when i first saw the hand history. ;] Same. JJ would make no sense. Good read Ryan. is this sarcasm? i think i have JJ here much much more than i have AJ

Pushing with JJ here when it's obvious the only hand you're gonna make money from is AK or AQ has no value, because he'll fold everything except AJ or AA :/ I'd much rather frontpush the river then.

JJ makes perfect sense
you guys dont play your sets the same way as your big draws? if so you are transparent.

in order of likelihood i thought his range was 55, JJ, AK, big draw, AJ, A5, AQ/naked flush draw

raszi, northface is pretty good. i dunno why you think so lowly of him, i think hes one of the better 5/10 regs, most of them are just retarded aggro monkeys or super nits.

if he had AJs here its not an _awful_ call, hes getting 4:1 preflop plus its not certain i have a big hand here, im without a doubt the most aggressive player at 5/10 full ring, and its not even close. AJo would be a miserable call though.

plus twisted you have to realize, people dont EXPECT me to fold AK in this spot, and the possibility i have a hand like KQs QTs is also possible and i am 100% calling a push with those.

vvvQ's indecisiveness ftw!

Well ok.

bigballs would you fold if i shoved?

probably not because i think you would do it with a naked flush draw a signiciant amount more than NF would, although you would not with AQ

i tend to discount JJ cuz he should be reraising that at least 70%

On December 06 2006 11:59 n0rthf4ce wrote: Show nested quote + On December 06 2006 11:52 Twisted wrote:   On December 06 2006 11:23 DooMeR wrote: haha AJ was exactly the hand i put him on when i first saw the hand history. ;] Same. JJ would make no sense. Good read Ryan. is this sarcasm? i think i have JJ here much much more than i have AJ

you don't reraise JJ here most of the time, and still call enough that you can have AJ in your range? that's suicidal. i won't break down how you'd need to range it, but the result is insane and makes getting repopped like crazy a given and impossible to manage.

On December 06 2006 15:23 Casper... wrote: Show nested quote + On December 06 2006 11:59 n0rthf4ce wrote:   On December 06 2006 11:52 Twisted wrote:   On December 06 2006 11:23 DooMeR wrote: haha AJ was exactly the hand i put him on when i first saw the hand history. ;] Same. JJ would make no sense. Good read Ryan. is this sarcasm? i think i have JJ here much much more than i have AJ you don't reraise JJ here most of the time, and still call enough that you can have AJ in your range? that's suicidal. i won't break down how you'd need to range it, but the result is insane and makes getting repopped like crazy a given and impossible to manage.

i dont have AJ in my range. i called w/ AJ suited because the guy from the BB called. this lessens the probablility that BB can bluff me out w/ a continuation bet and also gives me pot odds to call w/ 80 more given the bb probably has a slowplayed monster (very likely).

sorry but calling with AJs is awful here even if the other guy called, you are oop, now imaginge the flop came with the naked Ace, ready to loose a big pot?, and dont tell me ur going to fold on the flop cuz u wont, and if u do u should call with garbage pf atleast it isnt dominated garbage.

North isn't retarded and he's almost certainly a lot better than you, he can get away from A high flops here
I'm not saying I think his pf call is good or bad but you are in no position to criticize his play Baal =/

On December 06 2006 15:18 Casper... wrote: i tend to discount JJ cuz he should be reraising that at least 70%

not with the other player in the hand, putting in a 4th bet is suicide.
hu putting in a 4th bet sometimes is ok, but flatting is totally fine as well. just have to be willing to c/r all in on a T high flop more often than not.


and baal, do you have any idea what youre talking about?
hes getting 120+120+40+10:80, or OVER 4.5:1 odds with a suited ace. the likelihood i bluff when there is someone coldcaling a huge raise out of the blinds is low, and im quite sure he would have no problem check folding an A high flop.

and who is to say he would fold something like 45s here? i sure as fuck wouldnt. the same goes for 57s, 69s, QTs, hell maybe even unsuited connecting cards would get a call here.

Anyone who thinks this can't be JJ is retarded...
And i think if you make a habit of folding AK here even half the time, pushing a naked flush draw becomes a very profitable play in a headsup situation, because you're only calling with AA, JJ, and AJ(if its even in your pf range).

Interesting hand though..good adaption to the opponent.

On December 06 2006 19:17 BigBalls wrote: Show nested quote + On December 06 2006 15:18 Casper... wrote: i tend to discount JJ cuz he should be reraising that at least 70% not with the other player in the hand, putting in a 4th bet is suicide. hu putting in a 4th bet sometimes is ok, but flatting is totally fine as well. just have to be willing to c/r all in on a T high flop more often than not. and baal, do you have any idea what youre talking about? hes getting 120+120+40+10:80, or OVER 4.5:1 odds with a suited ace. the likelihood i bluff when there is someone coldcaling a huge raise out of the blinds is low, and im quite sure he would have no problem check folding an A high flop. and who is to say he would fold something like 45s here? i sure as fuck wouldnt. the same goes for 57s, 69s, QTs, hell maybe even unsuited connecting cards would get a call here.

exactly my point, call with 45s 46s QTs 57s 79s and anything but AJs??? what is a good hand to flop in that spot? only AJx flop, a Jxx flop might be good but often it isnt, an Ace high flop is disastrous most of the time. He got his miracle flop and he didnt get paid off, i personally think AJ is the worse hand to get in those situations, even raggy aces might be better.

On December 06 2006 18:52 GoodKarma wrote: North isn't retarded and he's almost certainly a lot better than you, he can get away from A high flops here I'm not saying I think his pf call is good or bad but you are in no position to criticize his play Baal =/

what in the fuck, way to put words in my fucking mouth i didnt call him a retard and i never said i was better than him so shut up.

Why cant i critizize his play? once H@ll called 50% of his stack with 34s and hitted a miracle, but i cant critizize him because he is much better than me? thats stupid.


Not to be results oriented but this shows exactly why callling with AJ here is disastrous, he were absolutely dominated on the flop, yet he hit a god damn miracle and he didnt get paid off...

is it just me or does everyone in this thread hate each other?

wheeee

edit:

I think the fold is ok against the right player

and I think calling with AJs preflop here is pretty bad honestly, it's too difficult to gauge how strong your flops are with a hand like that because you never know when you're dominated

hands like 46s don't get dominated here, you can trust two-pair and one-pair combo draws with 46s, but with AJs it's another story entirely. AA/JJ/AK/AQ are all highly probable here and they all fuck you badly

and even though you're getting your money in with two other people I highly doubt you're getting the right implied odds for a hand like AJs, especially when most of your potential winnings are sitting in front of a player like daut44

"and dont tell me ur going to fold on the flop cuz u wont"

I just meant he's not retarded enough to go broke on any A high flop. I didn't put words in your mouth so calm down you psycho

You have a habit of being extremely stubborn and criticizing players much better than yourself, maybe you're right sometimes but often you're wrong and refuse to admit it

pretty sure he's right this time

hehe did you just edit in the winking-smiley?

save us winky

diffuse this hostile situation

baal has a right to his opinion, and this is exactly the place he is suppose to express it.

And whether he is a lower stakes player or not, if he can form a valid arguement for why this is bad, then its even more reason to re-evaluate the play.

On December 06 2006 20:18 Spambuckle wrote: pretty sure he's right this time hehe did you just edit in the winking-smiley? save us winky diffuse this hostile situation

Don't point that out you fucking faggot why don't you just shut the fuck up





Baal doesn't question people's plays. He tells them why they are 'wrong' without giving it proper thought. Of course everyone has a right to an opinion but you need to be very open to the fact that normal ABC plays aren't always applicable, Baal often isn't

On December 06 2006 20:12 GoodKarma wrote: "and dont tell me ur going to fold on the flop cuz u wont" I just meant he's not retarded enough to go broke on any A high flop. I didn't put words in your mouth so calm down you psycho You have a habit of being extremely stubborn and criticizing players much better than yourself, maybe you're right sometimes but often you're wrong and refuse to admit it

probably that was missunderstood, i didnt mean he was going broke on an A high flop, i meant i didnt think he would check/fold on A high flop, he would probably take a stab and fold to resistance, what i mean is i didnt think he would check/fold an Ace high flop.

And he if does the pf call is even worse since he knows someone has a stronger ace yet he calls.

I think BB pretty much explains why his pf call isn't bad

goodkarma you stupid fishy cunt i hate you

I hope you die asshole

..

Oh oops ""

rofl rofl

sure hes getting 4;1 but the reverse implied makes this a bad call

there arent horrible reverse imlpied odds
good flops for him: JJx, AJx, KQT, flush draw + overs, pair + flush draw

hes getting 4.5:1, is almost assured i wont bluff if i miss because of the other player, and the other player could very well have a huge hand making the suitedness of his cards very important because he could win a monster pot.

northface is a pretty good player i am quite sure he can play this fine postflop and not get himself in trouble with just top pair J kicker or top pair if the J hits.

On December 06 2006 21:08 BigBalls wrote: there arent horrible reverse imlpied odds good flops for him: JJx, AJx, KQT, flush draw + overs, pair + flush draw hes getting 4.5:1, is almost assured i wont bluff if i miss because of the other player, and the other player could very well have a huge hand making the suitedness of his cards very important because he could win a monster pot. northface is a pretty good player i am quite sure he can play this fine postflop and not get himself in trouble with just top pair J kicker or top pair if the J hits.

The thing is his position, he is oop from you wich should be the one he cares about, if the other guy goes crazy on the flop its easy to assume that guy has a monster so position on him isnt that important as it would be having it on you, even with perfet postflop play this is a very marginal play, calling with any other 2 cards is better and AJ is one of the worse choices to call with.


PS: if Tom tells you to fold... FOLD

he has relative position on me
is the other guy REALLY going to smooth call and then donk the flop? seems highly unlikely
NF will have a decent chance to see us BOTH act if he checks, and maybe i bet. that gives him super good implied odds because he has relative position on me

just listen to bigballs, how complicated is that!

On December 06 2006 20:32 GoodKarma wrote: Show nested quote + On December 06 2006 20:18 Spambuckle wrote: pretty sure he's right this time hehe did you just edit in the winking-smiley? save us winky diffuse this hostile situation Don't point that out you fucking faggot why don't you just shut the fuck up

sorry I couldn't help myself, was too funny

you don't need to be embarrassed, you're in good company, I'm sure everyone here has edited in smiley faces before

i like ket he makes my peewee tingle.

good fold.

On December 06 2006 21:35 BigBalls wrote: he has relative position on me is the other guy REALLY going to smooth call and then donk the flop? seems highly unlikely NF will have a decent chance to see us BOTH act if he checks, and maybe i bet. that gives him super good implied odds because he has relative position on me

talking on EV, what in dollars do you would guess its his EV in that spot?

yeah if i say fold it must be the most obvious fold on the planet, because that is no longer one of my strengths