Submitted by : Baalim

PokerStars Game #9391591649: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2007/04/12 - 21:39:56 (ET)
Table 'Aegina II' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: TwelveBeers ($220.45 in chips)
Seat 2: mulle87 ($202.65 in chips)
Seat 3: Gnallingen ($210.25 in chips)
Seat 4: Zadan ($377.30 in chips)
Seat 5: Baalim ($206.40 in chips)
Zadan: posts small blind $1
Baalim : posts big blind $2
davidp55: sits out

Holecards
Dealt to Baalim
TwelveBeers: folds
mulle87: raises $6 to $8
Gnallingen: calls $8
Zadan: folds
Baalim : raises $23 to $31
mulle87: calls $23
Gnallingen: folds

Flop (Pot : $71)

   
Baalim : checks
mulle87: bets $171.65 and is all-in
Baalim : folds
mulle87 collected $69 from pot
mulle87: doesn't show hand

Summary
Total pot $71 | Rake $2
Board  
Seat 1: TwelveBeers folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: mulle87 collected ($69)
Seat 3: Gnallingen (button) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Zadan (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Baalim (big blind) folded on the Flop

What did you put him on?

If he's a pf nit, why reraise?

Just curious on your thoughts here.

i put him on AA JJ or AK

because AKs first to act VS a very very tight player is definitelly EV-... if i hit my King or sometimes Ace i will Pay original raiser off anyway if he had me beat PF, plus i give sandwich guy a free flop.


The thing is oop, i hit my king and he has AA.. i still loose a lot of money, if i hit my A i wont get paid off if he had worse than me

folding pf is silly, he is a nit but AKs is a monster i decided to put a re-raise and see if i could take it down post flop, i didnt simply c/f there.. i folded to his overbet, i were almos sure given his passive nature he checks back or bets small a weaker hand.

If he bets normally i probably call, and check turn again, if he fires again i fold since i dont give him credit for a weaker hand betting 2 barrels there

before posting read this, i didnt c/f.. i checked expected to call a normal bet and see how the hand developed, if i cont bet and he calls im 100% beat i think.

given that your read is correct, i think you played this perfectly

with what range do you think he calls your 3bet pre-flop?

how many hands is this 3%pf raise shit over?

3 of every 100 hands :3 !!

LOL. i mean how many fucking hands you got him on you turd

i hate ur check on flop, honestly

yea i dont like the check on the flop either unles you plan on giving up that alot of turn cards can fuck your world up

if he raises 3% of his hands why are you rerasing him with AK - the man's raising range is JJ-AA

wtf if he raises JJ+ pre then how is folding AKs silly.............?

You have absolutley no edge playing this hand against his range. To be honest folding AKs in a 5 handed game sounds completley stupid, but against the player you described I think this is a must. I mean this is a good flop for AK and you still arn't comfortable playing it, just avoid playing pots when this guy decides to raise once every 33 hands

On April 12 2007 21:37 [vital]Myth wrote: wtf if he raises JJ+ pre then how is folding AKs silly.............?

This was what I was wondering...

If he has such a tight raising range then surely reraising AKs is -EV?

A quick question baal:

If the flop was say K92 rag, would you play then hand differently? For stacks?

Bleh this is a dud question... Obvious to bet the flop and consider what he does after.

Definately against a player that tight i would 3 bet pre for a squeeze/value play. Not for just purely value. With the added disadvantage of being OOP after being called by an uber nit. I would shut down unless i hit big.

i mean seriously what is his raising range if he's 3 percent, better yet, wtf does he call a 3 bet with?

On April 12 2007 22:29 PandaSaurus wrote: A quick question baal: If the flop was say K92 rag, would you play then hand differently? For stacks? Bleh this is a dud question... Obvious to bet the flop and consider what he does after.

i proceed carefully, i dont play happily for stacks at all vs his nitty pf range

3.4% pf raise is according to pokerstove: 99 TT JJ QQ KK AA AKs AKo AQs

AKs is ahead or has decent redraw possibilities, i think folding is too weak even against him. (might be an option tho).


Flat calling is retarded AKs has huge reverse implied odds and i will loose even more against a monster if i hit the flop than if i 3 bet preflop to define his hand.



I think the tricky part is preflop, on the flop with such a nit its obvious that i have to proceed carefully and i cant call if he pushes.



I didnt cont bet because he is an absolute nit, he isnt going to steal the pot from me, if i cont bet and i get raised im beat... if i bet and i get called i either tie or im beat... so why bet and turn my hand into a bluff? there are no "free" cards for him besides possible 2 outter with TT QQ.

TT/QQ have 6 outs, not 2.


Edit: pretty gay spot considering your reads, but i think 3betting is still fine even vs 3% preflop raise judging by the range pokerstove gives. Also your sample size may not be high enough, I've seen some people with 3% preflop raise over 50 hands, but jump to 10% over 100 hands. And I myself have been like 6/6 on some tables over 50 hands cause people before me are raising and i don't get a chance to open pots + not picking up any hands, and other times i've been 50/40 over the same amount of hands.

On April 13 2007 03:26 Baal wrote: Flat calling is retarded AKs has huge reverse implied odds and i will loose even more against a monster if i hit the flop than if i 3 bet preflop to define his hand.

If you play post flop like a complete monkey, sure.

Bet out 56 and probably call an allin

Isn't TPTK liek the nuzzzz in reraised pawts. I don't hate your fold tho, but c/f seems awfully weak. I'd rather betfold or check/call ;D

against this type of player, i flatcall preflop probably.
if i dont hit i am out cheaply. if i hit, i try to keep the pot small - ie calling down and i might throw it away on turn or river if he keeps firing big.

i definately dont like ur line - reraise preflop to hit a good flop and fold = no thx, seems like a spew to me. if i ever reraise him preflop and see such a flop i play it for 1bi stack.

On April 13 2007 07:28 Muhweli wrote: Isn't TPTK liek the nuzzzz in reraised pawts. I don't hate your fold tho, but c/f seems awfully weak. I'd rather betfold or check/call ;D

read my posts bitch...

i said i didnt c/f... i actually planned to check/call and turn would reveal his hand since no way in hell this guy fires 2 bullet withouth a monster.

The thing is he didnt bet... he PUSHED on a huge overbet, wich i gotta say i tought till the timer went to 0 i wanted to call just because of his weird play but neh.

On April 13 2007 07:35 Joe wrote: against this type of player, i flatcall preflop probably. if i dont hit i am out cheaply. if i hit, i try to keep the pot small - ie calling down and i might throw it away on turn or river if he keeps firing big. i definately dont like ur line - reraise preflop to hit a good flop and fold = no thx, seems like a spew to me. if i ever reraise him preflop and see such a flop i play it for 1bi stack.

playing for stack is stupid on that flop, i can be 100% positive i am NOT ahead, he wont push combo draws, best thing i can hope for is to tie... and i would get free rolled for runner runner flush anyway.

if you decide to flat preflop your preflop equity goes way down since u allow the other guy in position see the flop, and you loose exactly the same by flat calling his flop bet or if you lead than what i lost by 3 betting, but you also dont get fold equity preflop.

On April 13 2007 14:16 Baal wrote: if you decide to flat preflop your preflop equity goes way down since u allow the other guy in position see the flop, and you loose exactly the same by flat calling his flop bet or if you lead than what i lost by 3 betting, but you also dont get fold equity preflop.

Your preflop equity isn't that high vs his range anyway.

You crush the other guy's range and plan to c/f any flop you miss, so who cares?

No you don't, against somebody this nitty you can lead for 15, that's $8 less. He won't "sense weakness" and raise you.

You don't have any fold equity preflop anyway, he plays 3% of hands.

You actually lose more against his entire range by 3betting since he isn't folding to a c-bet ever. He is folding any underpairs to the board and calling you down with overs.



But I already analyzed this ith you at length and you are too stubborn to really see the valid points. In fact, you are stuck on things that are for the most part flat out wrong. Considering your biggest argument was that if you flat you are more likely to be taken to "value town". That only happens if you play postflop like a monkey and without a plan. Unless you're leading and then check calling down any flop you hit, you won't be taken to value town.

But whatever, if you want to be stubborn then happy losing.

EDIT: Oh, and I guess I should point out that several respeccted players have given you the same advice. The only people who are agreeing with your preflop play aren't exactly considered top notch.

But I mean, I guess as long as they agree with you your ego stays in tact. >.<

calling sometimes w/ AKs isnt terrible. against this opponent it may even be optimal because you may win a big pot vs AQ but will never lose a big pot if u hit nothing and you are always proceeding cautiously if u flop a K so you never lose more than you should. reraising here pf isnt terrible but against this player it turns your hand into 72o almost. flop play is fine imo.

This might be a real simple way to look at it, but because you 3 bet, your more correct to take this to the felt yes? Like... AK when I hit TPTK in a 3 bet pot is like... orgasm, I have the nuts, when do I get my money in?