Submitted by : Daut

PokerStars Game #4742593974: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2006/04/25 - 19:00:47 (ET)
Table 'Erato II' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: lobojiji ($450.60 in chips)
Seat 2: BigBluffn83 ($58.05 in chips)
Seat 3: pmilanov ($414.20 in chips)
Seat 4: Daut44 ($433.40 in chips)
Seat 5: musical13 ($151.65 in chips)
Seat 6: StoneCold17 ($348.40 in chips)
Seat 7: ragmuppet ($158.80 in chips)
Seat 8: eaglesfaan1 ($416 in chips)
Seat 9: Zadan ($543.50 in chips)
eaglesfaan1: posts small blind $2
Zadan: posts big blind $4

Holecards
Dealt to Daut44
lobojiji: folds
BigBluffn83: folds
pmilanov: folds
Daut44: raises $8 to $12
musical13: folds
StoneCold17: calls $12
ragmuppet: folds
eaglesfaan1: calls $10
Zadan: calls $8

Flop (Pot : $48)

   
eaglesfaan1: checks
Zadan: checks
Daut44: checks
StoneCold17: bets $16
eaglesfaan1: folds
Zadan: folds
Daut44: calls $16

Turn (Pot : $80)

   
Daut44: checks
StoneCold17: checks

River (Pot : $80)

   
Daut44: bets $34
StoneCold17: raises $66 to $100
Daut44: folds
StoneCold17 collected $145 from pot

Summary
Total pot $148 | Rake $3
Board  
Seat 1: lobojiji folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: BigBluffn83 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: pmilanov folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Daut44 folded on the River
Seat 5: musical13 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: StoneCold17 collected ($145)
Seat 7: ragmuppet (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: eaglesfaan1 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: Zadan (big blind) folded on the Flop

i should have bet flop for ~30

but what should i do on river?
check/call?
bet/call?
bet/fold?

im obviously no one to give advice to you but why not beting the flop?

i think bet/fold the river was fine, calling there was just silly.

even if the J completes a draw it might also give a pair to a drawing hand and might call that bet to a showdown, thats what i think

bet/fold

what do you put him on? AT? 44?
i doubt KQ would play like that...

If you don't bet turn you cant bet river... given the way you played it you have to check/call.

Also on another note - you'r gonna raise PF raise this flop plz. Is you'r only goal to pick up the blinds here? This flop play is very strange to me.

Third - StoneCold is a good player, most likley holding for him is 78, it's consistant with his play on every street. AT = impossible as well as trips because he is a good player he would not slowplay on this flop texture. Only thing I can immagine him having is either the same hand as you or 78 but im learning more towards 78.

i really dont see how u can justify folding here... i really dont. With 78 pretty much being the only hand he could have that would beat you, when he more than likely has AK, AQ

That's clearly a value raise, and I think a fold is correct as played.
I'd bet more on the river though. Bets like this make opponents do things that are hard to read.
I don't think a C/r is good on the flop... it turns your hand into a bluff. However, I would probably lead here and fold to any raise. So in a way anything you do except check calling here turns your hand into a bluff but leading is less expensive.

i agree with tom (WTF?) except on if you dont bet the turn you dont be the river.

If you want to control the size of the pot with that marginal hand in the turn oop i guess its fine because he either has 3 hands, he either has JQ, 78 or AT, i am more inclined to think he is on a draw with that weak bet on the flop, and he checking behind on the turn gave it absolutely away, no way he has a made hand.

So bet/fold the river might extract value from JQ so its not such a bad move

i checked the flop cause the pot was sort of large, i didnt have a great hand and it was 4 way. i wanted to buy the button and have position with my preflop raise, but i managed to get a ton of players along for the ride AND not even get the button.

i should have bet $30 here cause im not really afraid of a raise (easily releasable hand), i have a decent hand that id like to showdown cheaply (the reason i checked), but there are a ton of cards that make my hand drop from decent to probably beaten, plus a few draws i can extract some money from.

his flop bet seemed pretty weak. i considered raising here cause i put him on QJ 87 ,pocket pairs, AK AQ, along with JT QT KT AT and maybe JJ (although i think he would be it a little more aggressively). but i called cause i didnt want to reopen the betting with this holding, or have him call and me be out of position on the turn with a difficult spot when a lot of scare cards come.

the turn came an A, i checked, he checked behind. river came J, i should have check called cause i wont really extract any value from a lot of hands, but i was thinking maybe i could get a crying call out of QJ QT some other T hands, maybe an AK AQ that was afraid of a turn check raise. he raised, i put him squarely on 78 and folded cause he wouldnt raise without a monster here.