Submitted by : Baalim

PokerStars Game #14386384317: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/01/07 - 08:41:35 (ET)
Table 'Bredichina' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: xgiovannix ($394 in chips)
Seat 3: Dokalog ($305.55 in chips)
Seat 4: Geert99 ($363.80 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero ($690.40 in chips)
Seat 6: big pad ($384.05 in chips)
xgiovannix: posts small blind $2
Dokalog: posts big blind $4

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to Hero
Geert99: raises $12 to $16
Hero : raises $38 to $54
big pad: calls $54
xgiovannix: folds
Dokalog: folds
Geert99: calls $38

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $168.00)

   
Geert99: checks
Hero : bets $100
big pad: raises $230.05 to $330.05 and is all-in
Geert99: folds
Hero : calls $230.05

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $828.10)

   

River (Pot : $828.10)

   

Showdown
Hero : shows (a pair of Aces)
big pad: shows (two pair, Aces and Kings)
big pad collected $826.10 from pot

Summary
Total pot $828.10 | Rake $2
Board  
Seat 1: xgiovannix (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Dokalog (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Geert99 folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Hero showed and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 6: big pad (button) showed and won ($826.10) with two pair, Aces and Kings

wtf replies -1

Geert (original raiser is 17/12-4) nitty grinder, ive been 3 betting him quite a lot.
Big pad is 23/10/2.6 (a bit fishy as u can see on his stats but not a ridiculous fish).


I am never good against Geert if he CR in this spot, i would fold vs him but i dunno about the other guy he might be overcalling with ATs ? he probably has more like a PP or AQ type of hands.


Do i just CF the flop o_o, c-bet small and fold to shove? bet/call?

fold pf (yes I'm serious damnit)

On January 07 2008 05:50 Siro wrote: wtf replies -1

im so good i wormhole the LP.net universe

ok explaining a bit more, basically i tought im never ahead when shoved to i should have folded, but i also felt that i would never get vlaue out of worse hands (maybe with with QK?) on any streets...

but i would feel very weird Checking flop and turn in a 3 way pot.

If i bet dumb ammounts i induce shitty bluffs, thats why i betted as small as i tought id represent strenght to not induce bluffs, i should have folded but thats not the question, the quesiton is what do i do.


If this thread is going to de-rail into why i 3-bet geert in those spots it was to keep the pressure on i tought he was going to make a move quite soon and if he 4-bets small i was going to shove Aj there

Hate the 3-bet pf if you have trouble stacking off here.

On January 07 2008 07:15 SakiSaki wrote: Hate the 3-bet pf if you have trouble stacking off here.

You realize im getting it in against the overcalling right? that kind of thinking isnt good since its not a hand against Geert, i gotta give him a range preflop wich narrows down when he shoves even mroe and im definitelly crushed by it.

This will be my last post on the matter Baal but I really think that it's very unlikely there is good enough reasoning/enough good reasoning for why this 3-ball pf is goot

I don't think I cbet here and as played I fold tbh

I wouldnt 3bet Geerts utg open with AJo. I could do it with like 9Ts sometimes, but not with AJo. As played I think I check flop for pot control unless I know villain is a huge donk who can have weaker aces here often. And I prolly give up to any bigger action on turn or river - basically I would try to see SD as cheaply as possible.

I don't like the 3bet either from UTG nit raiser.

I would rather 3bet him with hands that aren't likely to be dominated by his calling range such as 67s or whatever.

This board does kinda suck vs their ranges, especially that of the overcaller. I would more likely just check this down (hoping no-one bets).

wait for a better spot imo. fold pf

c/c c/f as played.

Doesn't overcalling a 3bet vs a UTG-raiser look retarded strong? He pretty much has to turn like JJ-QQ into a bluff on this board for us to be ahead and somehow I don't think that'll happen that often.

preflop is fine, gotta fold flop

On January 07 2008 09:46 JYang wrote: preflop is fine, gotta fold flop

looool

bet/calling here against the overcaller is complete suicide

pf is debateable isnt it? i mean ya there are better hands, but sometimes the cards dont matter when hes c/f the flop often enough?

i see no reason to bet the flop, we get calls from all better hands and folds from worse ones (assuming people are very rarely holding weaker aces here).

On January 07 2008 09:46 JYang wrote: preflop is not fine, gotta call the flop

there fixed.

preflop re-raise is unnecessary imo... sticky spots follow

I think this is an easy bet fold on the flop in my opinion.
I mean, what do you think the overcallers range is in this spot?
To call a nitty UTG raise, and then a 3 bet? I think it's 10-10+, AKs, AQs (maybe 9-9).

I can't really imagine a hand that you can beat vs big pad, and to make matters worse the "nitty" UTG raiser is still in this pot as well when he makes his raise. I realllly don't see him doing this with A-10 tbh. And even so, that's the only hand you can beat. I think his range has you destroyed here.

It's not like there are any draws here

I dont think you can generalize the mantra of "dont fold a pair of aces in a reraised pot" to this hand. the fact that its mw changes the dynamic enormously.

just listen to Tom

On January 07 2008 11:12 tilted fish wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2008 09:46 JYang wrote: preflop is not fine, gotta call the flop there fixed.

we bet flop and he shoves over us.. what hand do we beat, take a look @ preflop action

and preflop is very debatable i agree, postflop is a bet fold

On January 07 2008 10:25 sOah wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2008 09:46 JYang wrote: preflop is fine, gotta fold flop looool

rusrs.com

Why even bet JYang?
Just check, neither player is gonna turn QQ into a bluff here.
I probably fold pre tbh.

bet calling is like the worst option here. I think you should check and mayyybbeeee call one street but idk if even that is going to be profitable.

I'm checking the flop and evaluating the action from there, but mostly to check fold. My reasoning behind this is that most overcallers in this spot just aren't going to be bluffing behind you in a 3way reraised pot. I almost never see someone with QQ or AT betting in this spot.

3bet pre is fine as a semibluff, i think 76s is better but AJo is ok against supernit. just beware that, since you've been doing it a lot, he may start putting the pressure back on you. but basically you 3bet AJo pre bc he might fold right now (good chance, otherwise you would've stopped 3betting him already), and if he doesn't fold right now then you can outflop him. but if you do outflop him, you know that you can't really get any more money out of him, so you just check and try not to play a big pot.

you don't have to be able to win a stack on this flop in order to justify 3betting preflop. that's just silly. it would be nice, but it's not the be-all/end-all of a +EV play here

i like it preflop but i'd just bet halfpot on this flop (because it's 3way) for info/protection/thinvalue and not continue with my hand after that. if it was hu against geert i'd check behind

i know bet calling is horrible, i pretty much quickly tought what SakiSaki said on his first post wich now i realize its terrible, especially if its not against Geert.

About the 3-bet preflop i think you are not reading my first post, i have been relentlessly 3-betting Geert on this table in position, ive been doing to a point where if he 4-bets to a small non-commited ammount i am shoving over, i hope you realize of that dynamics.

So far that session i was playing 33/27 so dont think i randomly with a TAG image i decide to 3-bet a nit UTG with a dominated hand, even if i get called by Geert in position i can definitelly sway this on the EV+ side vastly with position taking the pot postflop and outplaying in IP in general.

I wouldnt have made this thread if this pot went down against Geert no matter the results, but the overcaller is unexpected and i wanted to hear your toughts....



I feel fishy checking 2 streets in a 3 way pot, if i check here i dont know what the fish is going to do, im sure represnting something like KK if i check and he might take a stab at it.

So do you chink Check/call or check and if nobody bets taking a stab on turn is the best line only planning to maximium get 1 bet/call on 1 street... woulnt it be kinda bad to C/C flop and C/F turn?

checking flop would be ok but i actually do think the overcaller turns a bunch of stuff info a bluff and i think his range is a lot wider than AT+ QQ+

On January 07 2008 14:48 [vital]Myth wrote: checking flop would be ok but i actually do think the overcaller turns a bunch of stuff info a bluff and i think his range is a lot wider than AT+ QQ+

so what are u thinking.. c/c 1 bet from overcaller (assuming utg folds) and c/f turn if he double barrels?

On January 07 2008 14:48 [vital]Myth wrote: checking flop would be ok but i actually do think the overcaller turns a bunch of stuff info a bluff and i think his range is a lot wider than AT+ QQ+

i dont think he does turn like QQ into a bluff u think its wider? like?

On January 07 2008 16:01 Fraser wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2008 14:48 [vital]Myth wrote: checking flop would be ok but i actually do think the overcaller turns a bunch of stuff info a bluff and i think his range is a lot wider than AT+ QQ+ so what are u thinking.. c/c 1 bet from overcaller (assuming utg folds) and c/f turn if he double barrels?

i like this

On January 07 2008 08:06 Twisted wrote: I don't like the 3bet either from UTG nit raiser. I would rather 3bet him with hands that aren't likely to be dominated by his calling range such as 67s or whatever. This board does kinda suck vs their ranges, especially that of the overcaller. I would more likely just check this down (hoping no-one bets).

perfect

discussing it with Naz i think now we both agree that CF is best.

i really unlike myth dont think the overcallers range is that wide here, he is a bit fishy, the kind of player who overplays a bit and stuff but not an absolute retarded fish, given thatt read i think CF > CC



i really dont see how u people keep insisting on the PF play when im saying i dont mind playing any postflop with Geert and that if he made a small 4bet i were ready to shove that was the dynamics of the game

yeah i'm with twisted here 100% if you haven't been 3betting this nit a ton, but if you have then i think AJ is 3bettable. and yeah when it gets checked down that's fine but i'd get in a vbet on the river if the flop and turn check through

and @ fraser, yeah that sounds good

since when did baal start playing kamikaze poker?

On January 07 2008 20:34 YoMeR wrote: since when did baal start playing kamikaze poker?

since i understood poker

kamikaze poker is winning poker, everyone knows that

honestly this is so bad i wonder if baal was drunk/tilted and now posting this for meta game?

if i wanted metgame id post this

Submitted by : Baalim

PokerStars Game #14407326112: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/01/08 - 05:14:55 (ET)
Table 'Pirola II' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: willybeer22 ($382 in chips)
Seat 3: Hero ($732.20 in chips)
Seat 5: HoldmMaster1 ($430.40 in chips)
HoldmMaster1: posts small blind $2
willybeer22: posts big blind $4

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
Hero : raises $10 to $14
HoldmMaster1: raises $36 to $50
willybeer22: folds
Hero : calls $36

Flop (Pot : $104.00)

   
HoldmMaster1: bets $72
Hero : raises $610.20 to $682.20 and is all-in
HoldmMaster1: folds
Hero collected $247 from pot
Hero : doesn't show hand

Summary
Total pot $248 | Rake $1
Board  
Seat 1: willybeer22 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Hero (button) collected ($247)
Seat 5: HoldmMaster1 (small blind) folded on the Flop

woah I'd personally fold pre, but after raising and bet/calling the flop (esp against over caller who always gonna have like JJ-AA or AK here(orAQ if he's a donkey)) is well you're gonna be toast here like every time.

lol baal give proper credit where it's due

you know your recent changes are bc of me -.-

On January 08 2008 03:08 [vital]Myth wrote: lol baal give proper credit where it's due you know your recent changes are bc of me -.-

You indeed were an eye opener and u constantly set my fishiness straight, you turned me into a nit into an actual semi-loose agg, the super loose style was more an adaptation of what ive seen in some videos.

Reason why i dont want vids to be released : <<<< stop those evil things that make poker harder for us T_T

why do some overagressive monkeys think this is standard?

you check and see what happens, overcaller does not turn QQ into a bluff like someone said so you could check fold or check call whatever. bet fold is an option but it turns your hand into a bluff which is not so fun

On January 08 2008 02:24 Baal wrote: if i wanted metgame id post this Submitted by : Baalim PokerStars Game #14407326112: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/01/08 - 05:14:55 (ET) Table 'Pirola II' 6-max Seat #3 is the button Seat 1: willybeer22 ($382 in chips) Seat 3: Hero ($732.20 in chips) Seat 5: HoldmMaster1 ($430.40 in chips) HoldmMaster1: posts small blind $2 willybeer22: posts big blind $4 Holecards Dealt to Hero Hero : raises $10 to $14 HoldmMaster1: raises $36 to $50 willybeer22: folds Hero : calls $36 Flop (Pot : $104.00)     HoldmMaster1: bets $72 Hero : raises $610.20 to $682.20 and is all-in HoldmMaster1: folds Hero collected $247 from pot Hero : doesn't show hand Summary Total pot $248 | Rake $1 Board   Seat 1: willybeer22 (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 3: Hero (button) collected ($247) Seat 5: HoldmMaster1 (small blind) folded on the Flop

pfft standard hand. gotta run over those nits sometime during a session right?

why would you 3bet a nit utg opener with AJo? pretty spewy imo

On January 10 2008 16:25 brudman wrote: why would you 3bet a nit utg opener with AJo? pretty spewy imo

lol brudman

you 3bet utg raisers with a lot worse than that

geez baal, i really dislike both the hands you've posted in this thread.