HOTW whore

ups

my internet just exploded.

WOOA

Gotta consider implied HOTW odds!

haha sickkkkkkkkkkk

insane

lol wow!

There is no way...

Sick, sick man.

sheeeeeeeeeet

omg....

no words for that

holy shit

you are sick, sir

omg so sick

Didn't even timebank?

dem eights really are craaaazy

lol... unless you have a monster read on your opponent (which you have no info) you've got to be incredibly stupid to think that chk-calling the entire way w/ 8's here is a good play. It's only "sick" because of the one time you were lucky enough not to be beat. There are so many hands he's betting like this., 44, 66, KJ, AK bluff which turned into a good hand, AJ... lmao. QJ/QK putting you on a mid pair and trying to represent a bluff on the rivr if he's really good. I mean, unless your opponent CHKS an ace pair on the river or some other bluff hand that may have hit because he assumes you're chk-calling (on a flush/str8 draw board) w/ a big pair/set/2 pair, there's just absolutely no way you're ever ahead here but maybe like what... 2% of the time, lol? I mean your opponent made a great read putting you on either a Jack or mid PP & betting the whole way, your chk-call downs were horrendous.. because the only thing going through your head is "Well K just hit the turn so if he has a jack his hands now a bluff, I CALL" River A, "Well if he paired up a K on the turn why would he over-bet the river here w/ an ace? He's only getting called by a better hand right? There's no way he bet an ace high the whole way and just hit, I call!!!"

Lol... I dunno, it's a sick call, but it's only sick because i'm 100% positive you've made call-downs like this before and have been wrong, more than you've been right. So why brag about the one time you're up against total air. Your opponent made a great positional read/play and you made a lousy chk-call down HOPING that he had total air, which he did... cause if you knew what you were doing and thought for sure he had air you would've chk raised the turn when his bet turned into a bluff on the turn, chk call flop = good, chk call turn = bad, chk call river = horrible.

Nonetheless, sick that your hand held.

lol stop thinking at lvl 1, avidgambler, everyone knows that "zomg the K hits on turn so zomg i can rep it to fold out the jack" etc.
Obviously both players in the hand are aware of such simple logic.

He might have made a spewy call-down, but your logic to justify it is hardly good enough because it is seriously lvl 1 thinking which goes on at microstakes.

On January 22 2008 18:52 AvidGambler wrote: lol... unless you have a monster read on your opponent (which you have no info) you've got to be incredibly stupid to think that chk-calling the entire way w/ 8's here is a good play. It's only "sick" because of the one time you were lucky enough not to be beat. There are so many hands he's betting like this., 44, 66, KJ, AK bluff which turned into a good hand, AJ... lmao. QJ/QK putting you on a mid pair and trying to represent a bluff on the rivr if he's really good. I mean, unless your opponent CHKS an ace pair on the river or some other bluff hand that may have hit because he assumes you're chk-calling (on a flush/str8 draw board) w/ a big pair/set/2 pair, there's just absolutely no way you're ever ahead here but maybe like what... 2% of the time, lol? I mean your opponent made a great read putting you on either a Jack or mid PP & betting the whole way, your chk-call downs were horrendous.. because the only thing going through your head is "Well K just hit the turn so if he has a jack his hands now a bluff, I CALL" River A, "Well if he paired up a K on the turn why would he over-bet the river here w/ an ace? He's only getting called by a better hand right? There's no way he bet an ace high the whole way and just hit, I call!!!" Lol... I dunno, it's a sick call, but it's only sick because i'm 100% positive you've made call-downs like this before and have been wrong, more than you've been right. So why brag about the one time you're up against total air. Your opponent made a great positional read/play and you made a lousy chk-call down HOPING that he had total air, which he did... cause if you knew what you were doing and thought for sure he had air you would've chk raised the turn when his bet turned into a bluff on the turn, chk call flop = good, chk call turn = bad, chk call river = horrible. Nonetheless, sick that your hand held.

lol indeed...

HOTY

On January 22 2008 20:10 PokerDoc88 wrote: lol stop thinking at lvl 1, avidgambler, everyone knows that "zomg the K hits on turn so zomg i can rep it to fold out the jack" etc. Obviously both players in the hand are aware of such simple logic. He might have made a spewy call-down, but your logic to justify it is hardly good enough because it is seriously lvl 1 thinking which goes on at microstakes.

Do you even know what lvl 1 thinking is? If you consider 3 levels instead of 2, level 1 thinking would be ignoring what your opponent presumes your range is and what his range is and simply playing your hand for what it's worth compared to the board.

Obviously his play consisted of different levels of thinking, but he had no information what so ever. The only info he could gather from this was that his opponent bet 3/4 pot on both streets (representing strength) and then shoved the river. Well a lvl 3 thinker assumes that after being called down on the flop & fourth street he's most likely behind, but a SMART player knows that no body is chk-calling out of pos on a combo draw board w/ either 2 pr or a set, so his opponent made a great read and play on the river. Rhaegar's chk-call down with 88's is atrocious because he can only read from the fact that his opponent presumes his range is less than an Ace pair by the river, and that's ALL he can go from. I believe the correct play in HU against an aggressive lvl 3 thinker here is a chk-raise on the flop or the turn... not a chk-call down. If Rhaegar makes this kind've chk-call down a lot, it's definitely -EV and negative expectancy.

Avid Gambler,
Do you know how the match was playing out?

Its really not a tough calldown I think. The truth is the only hands he could be worried about are KK AA and QT, and when playing HU those hand's will not come up that often. This is a great calldown because he probably knows his opponent might actually check behind a J or K for pot control, and that by the river his opponent is less likely to have an ace, he also knows that his opponent will fight for any pot where (his opponent) doesnt have any showdown value. Those things combined, his opponents range is very polorized to total bluffs, KK AA maybe AK KJ QT. Don't forget when you "slowplay" 88 pre you gotta do something crazy postflop.

LOL
Are you serious Avid. Get real, these aren't the kiddy games

On January 23 2008 11:50 Sixpeppers wrote: Avid Gambler, Do you know how the match was playing out? Its really not a tough calldown I think. The truth is the only hands he could be worried about are KK AA and QT, and when playing HU those hand's will not come up that often. This is a great calldown because he probably knows his opponent might actually check behind a J or K for pot control, and that by the river his opponent is less likely to have an ace, he also knows that his opponent will fight for any pot where (his opponent) doesnt have any showdown value. Those things combined, his opponents range is very polorized to total bluffs, KK AA maybe AK KJ QT. Don't forget when you "slowplay" 88 pre you gotta do something crazy postflop.

Actually there are more hands than KK/AA/AK/KJ/QT, there's also AJ, 44, 66, K6s, K4s, J6s, J4s... and basically any other mid pair like A6, A4 (suited or not), that may have been a c-bet on the flop, a bluff on the turn, and turned into 2 pair on the river. In headsup, you cannot eliminate those hands from a player's range, because i've seen much worse in high stakes headsup. In fact, there's a small percentage that his opponent is making a total bluff... he could even be bluffing with 99/1010 on the ace putting his opponent on J or K pair. I don't think you guys understand why this chk call-down is really bad in the long run.

Now this is a generalization... and I will rest saying that this is completely player dependent as well, and by the flow of the game it could've been a hard read. Just saying, he didn't even time bank it... so he either picked up a hard tell or was spewing.

As far as kiddy games goes... I know how to compare high-stake thinkers versus low-stake thinkers tyvm. I am an avid live mid-stakes player ($2/5, $5/10).. in atlantic city.

live 2/5, 5/10 is the same as like 0.5/1 and 1/2 online

avid, you do make some good points, but rhaegar's knowledge of poker is very deep. he knows everything you mentioned in your posts....as evidence, you should read his article. i don't pretend to know why he played the hand the way he did (its completely player dependent as you know) and neither should you.

On January 23 2008 21:28 Fayth wrote: live 2/5, 5/10 is the same as like 0.5/1 and 1/2 online

LMFAAOOOO.. wow, you seriously must've never played live poker before.

Actually, the $2/5 live plays a lot like $5/10 online and the $5/10 plays a lot like $10/20 online. The only difference is, there are more fish live which actually makes it harder for tighter players. I can't tell you the last time I won a pot live w/ AK,AQ, or KK. You really need to widen your range and play position strong.

On January 24 2008 01:54 AvidGambler wrote: Show nested quote + On January 23 2008 21:28 Fayth wrote: live 2/5, 5/10 is the same as like 0.5/1 and 1/2 online The only difference is, there are more fish live which actually makes it harder for tighter players.

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Avid, I'm only going to be repeating what northface said, and what most players also know: Rhaegar knows these things, he's thinking BEYOND it because poker is a game of people, not of 'rules' on how to play, and if you stay one step ahead of how your opposition are thinking then that's a way you can profit. Thinking about this hand, I personally think that the villains range is polarised into complete bluffs or near-nuts, and he won't be value-betting 3 streets with that ridiculously massive range you assign which seems to include ANY combo of 2 cards better than top pair =/

Now like I said in my original post, it MAY have been a spewy call, but it is not my place, nor yours to judge.

a guy with 40 posts and no hands submitted is learning Beast how to play ? wow thats some big self coinfidence there

i bet this guy will be tilted 4 life now after this call no words to describe the call " sick " would make it too insignificant

Avid
I wasnt sure this was a correct calldown at first, but I did some math and I'm fairly certain its EV+ against this player. I think im ahead on the river like 50% or smth and i need 36 or so... The decision is really on the turn imo. You do make some valid points, but it doesnt look like youre doing it for the sake of discussion..

And he tilted 5 buyins more after that so I'll be making that call again in the future for sure.