lol

take the pot preflop.

take the pot preflop.

when the 2nd raise gets back to you you always have the best hand cos you obv know this guy is nuts

yea i paused and thought about the idea of raising actually

i was like... hmmm... i know i should raise here... meh i call

do u think its no big deal that my line would look whack cos i flatted then raised? its a weird kind of spot cos i didnt know if JJ was good originally when i flatted but then yea i was like 88% sure my hand was good after the following action

i dont know what im trying to say here since logically i just told myself the answer O_O

Yeah exactly, I know what you're saying your line looks whack, not sure why thats a bad thing though.

Because it seems extremelly unlikely anyone has QQ, because if you had QQ in the early raisers spot you're going to 4 bet this and get heads upa gainst the fish right? and not let a bunch of other people in the pot.

Therefore the fact that your line looks 'whack' is a good thing because people can really only have worse hands here so if you get called you're ahead right?

Equally if you're unlucky enough for him to have QQ here then thats unlucky right because you were still going broke on this flop (it seems) theres 3 overcards and 4 people to the flop so half the flops aren't going to look great for you because of the presence of overcards and a handful of other flops (3 to suits which you don't have and 3 to straights 678 etc) also wont look too great. Therefore you could miss out on value or get it in with the worst hand (1-2 people here are likely to have pocket pairs or suitedconnectors which could outflop you and lose you alot of money) when really theres is 20 big blinds (almost) to have preflop and maybe get looked up by 88 99 TT which you'll just be checking down with on KQx AQx flops and miss all their value, here you can get allin preflop as a huge favourite if they do look you up.

yea agreed

for the other two nonfish guys in the pot, maybe im wrong but it seems like in full ring they have like 90% low PP like 99 and lower, maybe 10% of the time suited connectors. so as played my plan all along was to just give up to any action from either of the two regs. and then get it in vs the fish. and i was lucky since i had position and could see the two regs had folded already.

but i did get pretty lucky in that both regs folded, no overcards on the board, and the fishguy hit a pair

raise pf would avoid taking these risks and either take down the pot or get it heads up vs the guy with T4o :D

thanks for the help

could make it 85-90 preflop because you quite often see fish calling off half their stack preflop to hit a flop but wont just call and allin preflop, obviously as played you got the most value out of your hand, its perfect to get allin on a flop like this but its kinda a lucky scenario.

Yes seeing this flop will always be +ev if you're a good player but like +$37 (the value of other peoples preflop bets altho in some ways it could be $49 if you choose to include yours because thats in the pot now) is too much higher than your average win when you see this flop.

lets do some maths.

opp has 158 left in after the flop you have him covered.

so 316 + 49 (flop size) = 365

You're 75.66 % to win so your equity is 276.15 showing an overall profit of 106.15c approx.

Howevr thats only less than 3 times what you stand to make taking this pot down preflop.

And not to mention this is the BEST case scenario, the vast majority of the time either someones going to have something that bets you bad (like a set or 2 pair, not so much 2 pair on this board) but which you're drawing slim against and having very bad equity against, or an overcard is going to come and scare you or be beating you, or the flop will come low and everyone will fold round, or then fold the turn if they call one bet. I guess they could also improve on the turn and win there too.

sorry obv started typing that before your response, a pleasure. Nice to see that you're moving up and up all the time lachlan, good luck.

Yeah position makes this pot easily to play post flop and +ev however that can blind you to missing the most +ev move which is raraising pre to like 60-90 depending on what you think the fish will call, and obviously making sure it gets the other guys out, because your line will look kind of weak like 99-JJ (sometimes QQ,) not like AA or KK

you rock keylek xD nice thoughts