villain is tag, and i *think* capable of making this raise w/ air, but more likely to have a good hand


is this play good, or is it spew?

advice from good players only plz

this is bad. don't 4bet AQo unless you know for certain that it is for value and that you are calling a shove.

well i mean i guess we could argue that it's fine if you think he's just squeezing very often and you don't mind turning your AQo into a bluff because you expect a fold very often, but other than that... no.

I am not good but I have come across a lot of players who are on insane tilt and believe that the CO and Button NEVER have a good hand if they play back at a squeeze and the blind aggressor will often show up with A7o or KTo - but if he is playing TAG probably not the case.

On November 25 2008 23:56 Loco wrote: this is bad. don't 4bet AQo unless you know for certain that it is for value and that you are calling a shove. well i mean i guess we could argue that it's fine if you think he's just squeezing very often and you don't mind turning your AQo into a bluff because you expect a fold very often, but other than that... no.

4bet folding aqo doesnt necessarily mean your turning it into a bluff, it could very well be done for value if they 3bet a large frequency and 5bet shove a small frequency.

I don't mind it if you think you have FE against the squeeze. This is most likely a good spot for him to do it because I assume you've been raising/stealing a fairly wide range from the CO and the guy can call a lot OTB, so if you think he is capable of this based on gameflow and etc then I don't see a problem with coming OTT like you did here.

Another reason is because your hand makes 2 of his value hands, AA and QQ, half as likely, which should mean that you have even more FE is you think he could be making a move here, even if it's not a huge boost for you. Since he is TAG you have to be pretty sure that you have some pure FE though, because I don't think you can ever profitably call a shove without making a huge 4bet and turning your hand into more of a very light semibluff instead of a pure bluff that you can actually get away from like this.

Just my 2 cents =P

pretty much what loco said, and yes bigbob 4bet folding AQo means you turn it into a bluff since the only value you get from it is if villain folds

so yeah if I'm 4betting AQ I'm calling a shove

oh and this is kind of a spew vs a tag player not getting out of line, it is fine if someone is 3betting out of proportion

On November 26 2008 00:04 Bigbobm wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2008 23:56 Loco wrote: this is bad. don't 4bet AQo unless you know for certain that it is for value and that you are calling a shove. well i mean i guess we could argue that it's fine if you think he's just squeezing very often and you don't mind turning your AQo into a bluff because you expect a fold very often, but other than that... no. 4bet folding aqo doesnt necessarily mean your turning it into a bluff, it could very well be done for value if they 3bet a large frequency and 5bet shove a small frequency.

i never said it was necessarily turning it into a bluff, you're reply is pretty much useless...

i said you should know before you are doing the 4bet if it's one or the other. if you don't know, don't 4bet. that simple

and the player you are describing is pretty much standard. who doesn't 3bet a large frequency and 5bet shove a smaller one? i don't see the point in mentioning that either.

travis: i just pitch the hand to his 3bet, calling isn't going to be profitable vs a guy who you don't know anything about and appears to be decent

4bet aq with intention of folding to a shove is samething as 4bet 72o and folding