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Submitted by : Muck21

PokerStars Game #3654338542: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/01/16 - 06:32:27 (ET)
Table 'Dejopeja' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Alekhine21 ($97.65 in chips)
Seat 2: corkmanpga ($33.05 in chips)
Seat 3: gisp92 ($43.20 in chips)
Seat 4: oz_champ ($115.55 in chips)
Seat 5: HenryFnord ($91 in chips)
Seat 6: bozzer99 ($102.95 in chips)
bozzer99: posts small blind $0.50
Alekhine21: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Alekhine21 ]
corkmanpga: raises $2 to $3
gisp92: folds
oz_champ: folds
HenryFnord: folds
bozzer99: calls $2.50
Alekhine21: calls $2
*** FLOP *** ]
bozzer99: checks
Alekhine21: bets $4
corkmanpga: raises $6 to $10
bozzer99: folds
Alekhine21: raises $84.65 to $94.65 and is all-in
corkmanpga: calls $20.05 and is all-in
*** TURN *** ]
*** RIVER *** ]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Alekhine21: shows ] (a pair of Sevens)
corkmanpga: shows ] (a pair of Tens)
corkmanpga collected $66.10 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $69.10 | Rake $3
Board ]
Seat 1: Alekhine21 (big blind) showed ] and lost with a pair of Sevens
Seat 2: corkmanpga showed ] and won ($66.10) with a pair of Tens
Seat 3: gisp92 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: oz_champ folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: HenryFnord (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: bozzer99 (small blind) folded on the Flop

It wasn't imo. You only have second pair a a flush draw which makes him a 57% fav to win the the pot. It's a -EV play.

It was imo. When he calls you have loads of outs, and when he doesnt, whick he does most of the time, the money you win make up for your losses when he calls.

Who calls there anyway. If he didnt have a read hes just a donk, most players fold tptk easily in that situation. Good push, sucky opponent. Too bad u didnt outdraw him ;P

Sucky opponent made a good call. Tough call, but a good one. There's no way you can fault his play.

How can it be a good call if he doesnt understand its a good call? If he knew what he was doing it was obviously a very good call though. Those calls are tough to make!

How do you know what he was thinking? He obviously thought his hand was ahead and he was correct.

Hes most likely to be a donk, raising with AT utg and shit. Edit oh nm this is sh, my comments should perhaps not be taken seriously.. Sry Panda. I still think it was a good push though, for the same reasons as before.

http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/5840 There you got someone who knew what he was doing

What's wrong with raising A/10s UTG 6 handed? I think it's a perfectly acceptable play. His push was debateable, but if he had a feeling the guy would call (which is likely after the flop reraise) then I think it's a bad push, but that's just my opinion.

I think it's good against a preflop raiser. In general he will never have a set on this board meaning you're 50/50. If you suspect he might fold you should go for it.

On January 16 2006 04:19 PandaSaurus wrote: What's wrong with raising A/10s UTG 6 handed? I think it's a perfectly acceptable play. His push was debateable, but if he had a feeling the guy would call (which is likely after the flop reraise) then I think it's a bad push, but that's just my opinion.

Read what I edited!

I mean a guy who's already committed nearly half his stack on flop isn't gonna fold to an allin reraise with TPTK.

True, doh, forgot to check his stacksize

We're just having a friendly debate. No need for anyone to apologise =O

Many people fold for +++ 50% of their stack more, and they should.

His bet is a reraise to $10, when he has to call an allin for $20 on top of it. That's enough to make people fold (if as a player they are capable of folding top pair in the first place).

Actually I think his stack is too small to start calling on the flop. There's not enough to be made when you hit. He does however have enough left to make him fold right there. Push is the correct move. Besides, the smaller he is the less choice you have really. With money invested you're just going to have to go allin anyways (whether there's fold equity or not doesn't matter then) when he's small. If you want to start calling it down because you suspect he will call an allin you will atleast have to have stacks big enough to make drawing worth it.

When holding TPTK tho? There wasn't much on that board to suggest a fold. I think the call by villain is fine. The push is debateable, but I don't think I'd make it in this situation. Just my opinion.

I too doubt he would fold considering he's a shortstack. So I dunno ;O He couldve had any high PP in which case you would have A as an out too though.

1. This guy is big enough for him to be able to fold (but will usually call)
2. He is too small to start calling with your hand. The turn bet will be $10+. With invested money there you should have went in on the flop by then.

I know this might sound a bit messy at first but it's really how it is.

True, no mess, I agree!

Wouldn't it be better to see the turn then make a move though? I don't think a push is great when you're only 43% to win. Could you explain some more Naz?

Considering his stacksize calling is the worst thing to do, so it basically allin or fold. Allin is best since you have money invested + good odds to win against any hand, doesnt matter if it is AT or JJ, QQ, KK or anything. Right?

So you want to call on flop and fold on turn?

With money invested 43% is enough not to fold. There's no way I'm folding this hand on flop/turn vs a preflop raiser (thus you'll have more outs than just flush usually) with money invested. So if we establish that you shouldn't fold this hand with the money that was invested, it's better to go on the flop. If he's bigger and you think he will/might call a push I agree that you should call to check out the turn (AND THE RIVER!) see if you can draw to improve.

I didn't look up the odds, is this specific hand 43% vs AT? If so, imagine that you might also have your ace outs.

is 43% good enough odds though? This can't be a +EV play.

Im confused now!

Edit: Thanks Naz.

On January 16 2006 04:41 pinbaLL wrote: Considering his stacksize calling is the worst thing to do, so it basically allin or fold. Allin is best since you have money invested + good odds to win against any hand, doesnt matter if it is AT or JJ, QQ, KK or anything. Right?

Right. Assuming he bets on the turn, if you hit there's hardly any extra money to be made (as there would be if he had a full buyin). But you can't fold either (because with the money invested you would actually WANT to put everything in rather than to fold later on). However if he's a big stack you can actually minimize your losses in case you don't hit by flat calling, while drawing to improve and taking a big pot off him when you do hit.

Yeah it's 43%. I put it through Cardplayer.com.

So call a bigger stack, and push the smaller ones?

Makes sense I spose =O

Awesome sauce

Thnx for the lesson

No.. more like push the smaller ones (cause you got no choice unfortunately), and pick your moments versus the big stacks. You can also push against the big stacks, fold equity is your best friend. If he shows no fear, alot of strength and he's likely to call an allin you should prefer to call him down looking to hit one of your outs. If he's good and knows you as a reasonably tight player pushing (or reraising big, whatever you think is the most likely to make him fold!) is the correct move.

So like most things in poker "it depends".

Sometimes.

i like pushing the flop too

pushing is correct
panda, you forget that he was only 43% because he didnt have any ace outs
what if villan had JJ or KT?
if you have any fold equity, which you always do, thats an all in.

Thanks guys.
Yeah I counted aces as outs since I put him on some overpair.

good play imo