Submitted by : Daut

PokerStars Game #6016554743: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2006/08/22 - 21:43:33 (ET)
Table 'Sextans' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: magnum701 ($184.10 in chips)
Seat 2: Blazed187 ($445.35 in chips)
Seat 3: matawispar ($391.60 in chips)
Seat 4: paulie187 ($413.70 in chips)
Seat 6: Daut44 ($414.30 in chips)
Seat 7: F-29 ($448.20 in chips)
Seat 9: Flasch186 ($376.35 in chips)
F-29: posts small blind $2
hydronman: is sitting out
Flasch186: posts big blind $4

Holecards
Dealt to Daut44
hydronman leaves the table
magnum701: calls $4
Blazed187: folds
matawispar: calls $4
paulie187: folds
Daut44: calls $4
F-29: calls $2
Flasch186: checks

Flop (Pot : $20)

   
F-29: checks
Flasch186: checks
magnum701: checks
matawispar: bets $12
Daut44: calls $12
F-29: folds
Flasch186: folds
magnum701: folds

Turn (Pot : $44)

   
matawispar: checks
Daut44: checks

River (Pot : $44)

   
matawispar: bets $24
Daut44: raises $24 to $48
matawispar: raises $72 to $120

reads? its all read dependant. if no read u kinda have to call.

agreed

i'd only fold here vs very cautious players

I would call with anything but a huge read.

You're beating Trip 7's, Straight, Lower Flush. Call Call Call.

I would not be surprised if you're best in this spot over 50% of the time.

The only thing you can think about here that might help you is what you think he thinks you're holding. From your min-raise he's probably thinking value for a flush or a straight. You certainly aren't really trying to scare him away. You might want to 3-bet his $24.00 instead of just minraising.

With his move your opponent is saying "I think my hand is best". So whatever you have he doesn't care he thinks he's beating it. He knows the board is paired but he's not concerned about it (that may be something to add to a read if you know him to fold on paired boards normaly). Thing is there is a really good chance he's just playing a straight or a flush with strength.

He led out for 60% of the pot on the flop. Most of the time an opponent with a set will check this flop expecting at least one opponent to take a stab at it especially with a lot of opponents on the flop. He checks the turn, suddenly his hand has strength enough to check, when the turn pairs the board (or weakness) possibility of an overpair comes in here. The board is scary and your opponent is willing to raise.. problem is there is a good chance he's bluffing with all those scare cards, or he's simply made a hand that you can beat, most of the time.

I'd say call it unless you have seen him fold on paired boards with draws to most bets.

He led out for 60% of the pot on the flop. Most of the time an opponent with a set will check this flop expecting at least one opponent to take a stab at it especially with a lot of opponents on the flop. He checks the turn, suddenly his hand has strength enough to check, when the turn pairs the board (or weakness) possibility of an overpair comes in here. The board is scary and your opponent is willing to raise.. problem is there is a good chance he's bluffing with all those scare cards, or he's simply made a hand that you can beat, most of the time.

this is where i disagree - he's betting on that board with a set. definitely betting if he wants to get any value from draws and protect his hand from draws as well.
he checks the turn because his hand is now the nuts or 2nd nuts(if you don't count the flopped 2 pair possibility)and it can't be outdrawn that easily as you know. he checks because a paired board is already dangerous for a drawer and the 7 could not have helped. he bets on the river hoping a draw has completed. daut miniraises and he 3-bets to get more value, hoping daut doesn't fold.

I think his most likely hand is full house, but I still think you have to flat the river with 3:1 odds against random people.

Come to think of it I can't really imagine what kind of read you could possibly have on somebody that would warrant a fold here, either. That read would have to be so specific... with his turn check, every logical hand is still fair game. Unless you've got a read that he's some insane robot man that check/folds for days at a time until he gets to the river with the pure nuts, I think you would have to call here.

Or if you don't like the robot man hypothetical, I guess you could figure out that he's just a tight passive player that wouldn't contest a three-flush board without a full house or better, and fold then. I was under the impression that those players are very rare at 2/4 though no?

And I don't know what makes you think most players would check a set in his position on this flop Bejamin, that's silly.

to me it looks about equally like a lower flush, or a full house.

with a slight possibility to him having something weaker

does a set check the turn?

Feels like flush vs flsuh.

I say is a pretty easy call, if you push would a lower flush really call with a paired board?, he might but its very likely he will fold only getting intro trouble with FHs if you re-raise.

why wouldnt a set check the turn?
a) hes safe now
b) would you really pay to draw to a flush on a paired board and then reraise his bet and maybe call his reraise? no i think?

7 4?

you only have to win 25% to make the call correct

dunno how likely he is to have a house, it certainly seems very possible. but I'd guess less than 75% of the time anyway.

I think miniraise here is a pretty bad move since he is capable of coming over the top again with a lower flush but also a full house. Not a good situation to miniraise in. I actually think you still have to fold but if you made it 70 it certainly would have been alot easier.

the question was as much about the minraise as the river decision, actually more so.

i folded, i was pretty positive he had it. guys, its a 5 way limped pot, he bet with me left to act behind him, and the other 3 possibly checking a monster, checked the turn and reraised the river facing strength. the reason i minraised was because i didnt want to spew against a fh and i didnt want to knock out some other hands. hes not doing this with 56 ever, a lower flush would almost certainly flat, i guess i should have raised to 70 like naz said, but i think this is still a fold.

is it too bad to just call his river bet? cuz i often just call in these situations.

On August 23 2006 01:09 Eerik wrote: why wouldnt a set check the turn?

hmmmmmmmm he bet the turn he cant have a set

On August 23 2006 06:24 teej1985 wrote: Show nested quote + On August 23 2006 01:09 Eerik wrote: why wouldnt a set check the turn? hmmmmmmmm he bet the turn he cant have a set

On August 23 2006 06:24 teej1985 wrote: Show nested quote + On August 23 2006 01:09 Eerik wrote: why wouldnt a set check the turn? hmmmmmmmm he bet the turn he cant have a set

i was quoting straate there. he thinks a set wouldnt check the turn.
i believe he has a set there.

oh, nevermind.

i think he was checking the monster
goodfold

I like the minraise as long as you are aware it may induce a bluff, which isnt bad as long as you know that. However, against most players I dont think it would induce a bluff. Probably a good fold.

i think maybe 33, for fullhouse...he just calls pf, so could be 33-44-55. he raised flop, and then checked turn once he hit fullhouse, hoping someone with the 7 would bet, or someone with over pair, etc. turn comes and you see A high flush, and you mini raised him...got him excited. i think if he had the 7 or lower flush he flats you. most likely full house like you said :-)

why someone with a fullhouse would bet that river like a fag specially after the spade falls? I mean u guys sayin he checked the river hopin someone have a FD so why he bets $24 into $45 pot?

i think if ur gonna use up a kinda-thinnish river value raise, it should't be a minraise

i was thinking what naz said, yay

oh, and if i minraised i woulda called and i woulda minraised confident i was good