Submitted by : Daut

PokerStars Game #6237069892: Hold'em No Limit ($3/$6) - 2006/09/10 - 12:30:47 (ET)
Table 'Undina II' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Xaropinha ($630 in chips)
Seat 2: marcubs ($541.25 in chips)
Seat 3: Daut44 ($677.35 in chips)
Seat 4: mismis ($102 in chips)
Seat 5: 12 Volt Man ($890.05 in chips)
Seat 6: Oxbow Bob ($1556.05 in chips)
Seat 7: smokedapot_1 ($264.05 in chips)
Seat 8: OVVELL ($346.85 in chips)
Seat 9: Pipedream17 ($324 in chips)
mismis: posts small blind $3
12 Volt Man: posts big blind $6

Holecards
Dealt to Daut44
Oxbow Bob: folds
smokedapot_1: folds
OVVELL: calls $6
Pipedream17: folds
Xaropinha: folds
marcubs: calls $6
Daut44: calls $6
mismis: calls $3
12 Volt Man: checks

Flop (Pot : $30)

   
mismis: checks
12 Volt Man: checks
OVVELL: checks
marcubs: bets $12
Daut44: raises $42 to $54
mismis: folds
12 Volt Man: calls $54
OVVELL: folds
marcubs: calls $42

Turn (Pot : $192)

   
12 Volt Man: checks
marcubs: checks

Bet out fairly big? And u might wanna consider folding if they reraise u or something

Sup with the HORSE? Not anymore eh? xD

bet out again fully expecting to take it down

if voltman doesn't go away i'm concerned
if he does and mar chkrs in i'm probably calling

stove returns 80:10:10 (simple ranges)
against mars' chkr probable range we're still 84:16 because he should be chkshoving alot of stuff cuz our 2nd barrel doesn't mean much (i hope)

With 1 card to come your a massive favorate here, prob 5:1 I'm not worried about a set cause only likley set is 333, I would lead out for $120-150 and I actually want action from someone with QT (one heart) or pair + flush draw because I want the straight getting there, I'm not afraid if the board pairs, and if flush gets there I'm just not gona pat it off.
12 Volt Man is the wild card here obv he can have the 2 funky cards that we can't predict even something like J3 is conceivable, so bet out and re-anylize based on what they do

160 bet sounds nice

bet around 150$
i think it is very unlikely the have a higher flushm aybe 4 four draw flush with A
bet and see what they do

The only thing to worry about here in my opinion is 12 Volt man. He really could be slow playing a flopped flush, but he would also play a set the same way. You have 2 options: Bet large enough to decline them the proper odds to call with 1 pair+flush draw/set OR check behind and see what the river brings, and decide on how they act. I dont really like the second option, but it can be considered as very safe.

On September 10 2006 15:20 Logiabs~ wrote: bet around 150$ i think it is very unlikely the have a higher flushm aybe 4 four draw flush with A bet and see what they do

dont give advice to BigBalls for fucks sake -.-

FOLD

is there a second part to this hand? i assume u bet like 3/4 pot and something ugly happened. right now its a very simple turn bet and i prolly crying call shove because i cant make big folds.

Yea, the one guy probably has A high flush slowplayed or something?

On September 11 2006 04:25 Ket wrote: is there a second part to this hand? i assume u bet like 3/4 pot and something ugly happened. right now its a very simple turn bet and i prolly crying call shove because i cant make big folds.

that is not really a big laydown in a limped pot

are you kidding or what, i never lay this down

mm you mean because of 2 cold callers

ive talked this hand over with a few people, and i think the only person to really hit the nail on the head was tomson.

he said he would bet a little more than half the pot, about 100 or so, intending on folding to a check raise. i really liked this. heres why:

i think voltman has 3 possible hands, and the other guy has 4
voltman: Ah (could be in combination with something else, like a pair), a set, or a made high flush.
other guy: those 3 hands and some kings, like KQ KJ with 1 heart.

that being said, i think when im ahead i probably have about 75% equity+. sometimes one will have a set, another a high heart, which will drop me down to about 60%, but most of the time its usually each has a high heart. now, that is just when im ahead. when im behind, im drawing dead and a bet will induce a check raise.

ok, now, if i bet 160 as most of the people here are suggesting, naked Ah is folding, high heart is folding, hell maybe even a set would fold out of position (a smart player would fold a set here knowing im not calling a push when the board pais, and a smart player also cant do this as a bluff cause he isnt getting odds to do so, although i suppose with a high heart in his hand he could try to hit the flush and if board pairs push as a bluff, but thats neither here nor there). so a bet of 160 isnt really getting that much value at all from hands im beating, and when i get check raised, im almost certainly drawing dead. i think casper is wrong and i highly doubt someone with just a high heart or set would ever check raise me on this turn with that many players in the pot. so its getting almost no value and spewing extra when im behind.

if i bet just 100, im giving 3:1 odds to continue, which makes calling a mistake, but i would still get a call from a high heart from voltman, and i save money against a check raise. i really really like the idea of this.

i checked behind because voltman hadnt gotten out of line yet and it seemed so sketchy to cold call he 54. river was like 9o. both checked, i bet 124 they both folded.




as a side note, id like to ask people what they think about my suggestion of calling oop with naked Ah with the intention of pushing if the board pairs. anyone think thats smart? if i were to bet say 160, pot on river would be 510, and we'd each have about 400 left. thats certainly foldable. ive never thought about this sort of move before now but the more i think about it the more i like it. against smart players its so likely to get a fold, plus you have the added outs from your hand. its obviously a bad move to do in the opposite way, if you have a set bluff a heart because its very possible the opponent has Ah. its also bad to do in a heads up pot because your opponent could easily be betting the set. but with this many players in the hand i think my hand is well defined as a flush (strength of the flush is not well defined if i do bet), so a missed nut flush draw COULD rep the boat. i dunno, just an afterthought

also when i said i was giving 3:1 that isnt correct FOR EITHER PLAYER. im 75% against both players in the hand, but against either specific player, getting those odds isnt good enough for them (note the turn 7 means a set has at most 9 outs, meaning he needs closer to 4:1 to continue, and on average he doesnt have a set) if one player calls inducing a call from the other player, thats fine because the second player probably has a hand like KxQh, meaning he needs like 5:1 odds to hit his hand, and im still not giving him odds to continue.

u tgink fishes think like u ? no just bet 160 and they call with ah hearts

and another note is, if after my check behind, voltman fired 150 on a total blank river i think i would fold it. just seemed like such a i have the nut flush play. but i guess he just had Ah and was a total idiot for cold calling.

a fish at 3/6 is not the same as a fish at .25/.5
calling the flop is totally different to them than calling the turn. he would not call getting barely over 2:1 with 7 outs

Bet the smallest amount that you think will still look impressive to someone without the nut flush. Follow up by folding to any action.

108 looks nice

Nazgul's line looks good, I myself was gonna suggest checking behind like you've done.

Interesting hand..i'm pretty sure i'd have checked behind too without time to really sit down and think about it. Mar is in good position, his underbet/call doesnt make sense to me unless hes looking to build a pot. hes got no fold equity against draws.. so why doesnt he just check? small bet is good too, i guess it just depends how likely u think ur drawing dead.

having chked the turn and someone bets into u on a blank river i think u definitely have to consider a call. many players would expect a flush to bet that the whole way.

about repping the boat when the board pairs while holding the ah: i'd think that would only be a good play with 4+ ppl seeing the flop. i think in a 3 way pot with this kind of flop i'm still going to be the agressor if i'm holding a set until i run up against some major opposition.

Thinking about it I agree with u guys now =[

poop

i think that because you'd rationalize betting weak and folding to a (now higher probability of being induced) checkraise is specifically why this turn should be fired with authority
if voltman cc'd the flop and you bet weak here, he's going to call again
if he calls, the probability of the other guy shoving (imo a far bigger range then you are giving him credit for) starts to, if not skyrocket, become very signficant and you can't call that and you're folding with probable 80% equity

look at it this way. you're marz or whatever his name is. would bigballs bet 1/2 the pot 3way on the turn with a hand he's very comfortable with? if volt calls, all he has to decide is if he's ahead of volt or has enough FE v him. if so, he shoves. his actual hand becomes irrelevant and you basically present this to him on a silver platter.

if you have significant reason to believe that volt will fold to a 1/2 pot bet, then your rationale holds and your line is the best available.
i see no reason to believe that to be the case.

I would be thinking of a way to get the money all in, how can you fold for stacks here thats silly

On September 11 2006 06:48 Ibsu Bai Hui wrote: are you kidding or what, i never lay this down

well imo it isnt a big laydown -.-

Submitted by : Baalim

PokerStars Game #6200253098: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/09/07 - 04:42:10 (ET)
Table 'Elara II' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: sloverville ($175.35 in chips)
Seat 2: rebuyboy ($217.75 in chips)
Seat 3: Baalim ($112.20 in chips)
Seat 4: sumtingood00 ($29.55 in chips)
Seat 5: J0N4H ($47.65 in chips)
Seat 6: dombasas ($103.60 in chips)
Baalim: posts small blind $0.50
sumtingood00: posts big blind $1

Holecards
Dealt to Baalim
J0N4H: calls $1
dombasas: folds
sloverville: folds
rebuyboy: calls $1
Baalim: calls $0.50
sumtingood00: checks

Flop (Pot : $4)

   
Baalim: bets $3
sumtingood00: folds
J0N4H: calls $3
rebuyboy: raises $14 to $17
Baalim: calls $14
J0N4H: calls $14

Turn (Pot : $55)

   
Baalim: checks
J0N4H: bets $5
rebuyboy: raises $194.75 to $199.75 and is all-in
Baalim: folds
J0N4H: calls $24.65 and is all-in

River (Pot : $454.5)

   

Showdown
J0N4H: shows (two pair, Aces and Deuces)
rebuyboy: shows (a flush, Queen high)
rebuyboy collected $111.30 from pot

Summary
Total pot $114.30 | Rake $3
Board  
Seat 1: sloverville folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: rebuyboy (button) showed and won ($111.30) with a flush, Queen high
Seat 3: Baalim (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 4: sumtingood00 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: J0N4H showed and lost with two pair, Aces and Deuces
Seat 6: dombasas folded before Flop (didn't bet)

<3 rebuyboy

what a retard

wow nice fold baal

i pwn