I have no idea if this is good tbh I think it might not be.. I don't have any history with villain...


halp plz

u might be moving a bit fast - 2/4 already? are you really rolled for it? Maybe you just haven't blogged about a heater or something

why don't you stove JJ vs the range of hands he gets it in with before you decide to raise?

if you don't think you can get it in profitably, i think you should just plan to call down/vbet when checked to

i would 3bet this preflop

I actually do have an idea if its good or not but I want to know what other people's assumptions are in this spot to see if mine are accurate at all

honestly though, i think you're very often going to be behind if you get it in on the flop vs a random reg

even if you add like 99/TT you're still prob behind

On October 15 2009 19:11 collegesucks wrote: JJ vs the range of hands he gets it in with before you decide to raise?

obv this is what my question is about :D

I think you're probably right upon further thought too btw ^^

and this

On October 15 2009 19:14 gororokgororok wrote: i would 3bet this preflop

This isn't bad at all. I'd like more history though.

Pokerstove is your friend here.

it actually looks pretty bad for me after putting it into poker stove so I'll make sure not to do this w/o a good reason (aka not vs a mostly unknown) ;D

most of my history w/ steve yea is sporadic and piecemeal, there aren't really many situations that I feel like I can gain a solid read vs him yet

i think flatting pre is fine.
why not just c/c, JJ in this spot is usually a WA/WB situation.

Gotta think of all the times you raise JJ and he calls then you get extra value w/ pairs etc. I could see him calling w/ any pair here. Also almost most of the time he'll fold flop.

I don't think I'd fold any pair to your raise here.

your 37/63 vs his range which for shoving here is 5h6h, AhTh+,99+,33/44/88 and i'm pretty damn sure that's his range.

I guess doin it blind can be bad but I think you can develop a dynamic where JJ is close to the nuts here 8)

On October 15 2009 19:29 Maynard! wrote: I guess doin it blind can be bad but I think you can develop a dynamic where JJ is close to the nuts here 8)

I 100% agree

I just need to break the habit where every once in a while I decide to play the hand like I have history already ;D

I guess it made some history for us.. lol

On October 15 2009 19:28 palak wrote: your 37/63 vs his range which for shoving here is 5h6h, AhTh+,99+,33/44/88 and i'm pretty damn sure that's his range.

yah after stoving I better realized how bad it was vs his likely range, I thought it was going to be a good bit closer during the hand vs this range, so I won't do this vs an unknown if I remember this lesson

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 35.716% 34.70% 01.02% 16146 472.50 { JcJd }
Hand 1: 64.284% 63.27% 01.02% 29439 472.50 { 88+, 44-33, AhKh, AhQh, AhJh, Ah2h, 7h6h, 7h5h, 6h5h }

there are probably a few other possible combo draws, but EV doesn't look great

On October 15 2009 19:26 Maynard! wrote: Gotta think of all the times you raise JJ and he calls then you get extra value w/ pairs etc. I could see him calling w/ any pair here. Also almost most of the time he'll fold flop. I don't think I'd fold any pair to your raise here.

you're also drawing to 2-6 outs anyway and we have two more streets for value against that part of his range, amiright?

and as we see more cards, our hand gets better and better, as draws brick off and turn into bluffs.

it seems raising JJ with no history on this flop is certainly overplaying it.

maybe call flop and ship on a good turn... idk i rarely take that line so idk if it's going to be super effective. he's gotta barrel all of his draws on the turn (edit: i thought he was oop, oops) and you're a significant favorite against every nonmade hand in his range on the turn + 99/TT is more likely to ship vs you when the turn bricks off and you shove it in.

On October 15 2009 19:23 Exhilarate wrote: i think flatting pre is fine. why not just c/c, JJ in this spot is usually a WA/WB situation.

it's not really WA/WB because of all the combo draws and overcards+FD, which is why not 3betting pre makes it an awkward spot

this guy's range is also probably pretty straight up in this spot because he mass tables

I think vs most mass tablers any +EV in this line decreases significantly btw. this is definitely something that weighed on me to just x/c

obv I am smart and didn't listen to myself

yea this is SA/WB, which is obv not where you want to be.

I do not know the player. but if he's somewhat thinking I think our equity is pretty thin.

our opponent has position and will most likely not play this flop for stacks with 99/TT but call your raise. Therefor you're up against draws or better hands a lot.
flatting pre is fine sure, i would like it a lot if axe38 was a fish or squeeshhappy. but i personally would like 3betting because his CO open range is usually wider and we have a good hand. also sb vs co is somewhat steal positions.

like maynard said if you have dynamics running this could be very +ev but i guess you don't have them yet since u moved up

axe is a huge fish

good point he is likely calling the raise IP with the more marginal hands I would need hi mto be stacking off here w/ to be ahead, good point and it didn't have enough weight in my thought processes at ALL. tyty

100% fold to 3bet vs steve yea, not even close here your jj is way behind if he 3bets flop and he's flat-out bluffing 0% of the time

too thin without the correct dynamic/reads imo. if not bad/spewy

seems to me you're about never ahead when he reraise to 140, best case scenario is you flipping

yah its definitely not the way to do it at 1/2 vs a mass tabler in general.. still feeling out 2/4 I guess? I have played VERYVERY few hands here but I still sort of have a slight case of "changing your game just cuz you are moving up stakes" sort of thing which I think is OK in some ways but this hand wasn't the time to do it

half-glad I did it though cuz the hand discussion is good and reminded me of a couple of things ;D half-unglad I went against my own thoughts during the hand. I'm such a noob.


thanks a lot for all the replies btw!

On October 15 2009 19:47 Fayth wrote: seems to me you're about never ahead when he reraise to 140, best case scenario is you flipping

lol you're the 1st one to mention the raise size he made

is it wrong to feel dirty about raise/folding here?