god damn shitty regs are killing me today

what are you repping on the river besides your hand and maybe QQ?

And even on the turn, do you expect him to bluff you and try to rep the king for some reason? Why do you think you get more value by checking and then betting river so big?

I am completely shooting in the dark here, please can you just explain your thought process on turn and river whatsoever? :D

On January 18 2010 17:47 LemOn[5thF] wrote: what are you repping on the river besides your hand and maybe QQ?

Seems to me a 99/TT/JJ/QQ might take this line and also might call our river bet after turn chk chk?

On January 18 2010 17:53 4Kingell wrote: Show nested quote + On January 18 2010 17:47 LemOn[5thF] wrote: what are you repping on the river besides your hand and maybe QQ? Seems to me a 99/TT/JJ/QQ might take this line and also might call our river bet after turn chk chk?

Yes yes, but what do WE represent? A bluff? like this? how? We would bluff the king 100% of the time if we want to bluff, not this river no?


So by that logic, why would we want to make the bet so big, its hardly polarising is it?

True - guess we should bet the turn and shove river if we don't think an 8 in in his 3bet calling range.

On January 18 2010 17:53 4Kingell wrote: Show nested quote + On January 18 2010 17:47 LemOn[5thF] wrote: what are you repping on the river besides your hand and maybe QQ? Seems to me a 99/TT/JJ/QQ might take this line and also might call our river bet after turn chk chk?

this. i expect him to be calling with all kinds of pocket pairs. obviously he thinks im very aggressive since hes calling a monstrous 3bet with 89s

Ye so why not represent the bluff on the turn, but bet the river like this instead? Wouldn't you be expected to have way more air in your range on the turn than on the river

I get lemon's point though - you have to have a king here most of the time as otherwise you would bet the turn or otherwise if you have 99-QQ or a bluff would you check turn and bet river?

On January 18 2010 17:55 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Show nested quote + On January 18 2010 17:53 4Kingell wrote:   On January 18 2010 17:47 LemOn[5thF] wrote: what are you repping on the river besides your hand and maybe QQ? Seems to me a 99/TT/JJ/QQ might take this line and also might call our river bet after turn chk chk? Yes yes, but what do WE represent? A bluff? like this? how? We would bluff the king 100% of the time if we want to bluff, not this river no? So by that logic, why would we want to make the bet so big, its hardly polarising is it?

of course we bluff this river plenty. and we value bet much weaker hands than a king. i dunno if you 24 table and have no idea what player dynamics and reads are but hes clearly calling me very light and thinks im full of shit.

On January 18 2010 18:02 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Ye so why not represent the bluff on the turn, but bet the river like this instead? Wouldn't you be expected to have way more air in your range on the turn than on the river

hes clearly not folding to my 3bets. so i expect his range to be mostly floats or small pocket pairs that would fold to my turn bet. i check turn hoping to get max value from the floats and then make it more likely he'll call a bet on the river with a small pocket pair. i bet big on the river because it looks a lot more bluffy than a small valueish looking bet and because hes obviously a monkey station i expect to get called from a lot.

EDIT: oh ok I get it, I will not get into the leveling discussions of river bets here, but guess if you expect him to float a large % of the time then its ok.

I just think that in an aggressive dynamic you would be expected to barrel the turn huge% of the time because its such an awesome barrel card, and he can't really represent a king here at all, which would leave you only with a value range on the river.

Guess I am idealising both hero, villain and their history too much here -.-

Although his line does make sense if he was thinking exactly that, your hand looks like JJ QQ Kx air a ton here

if he wasnt an incompetent monkey i probably wouldnt be 3betting him huge oop with kqs

So why didn't you say so?

Against some nitty villains its a perfectly standard 3bet -.- (with KQo, and I don't see why your 3bet is huge, seems standard)

On January 18 2010 18:27 LemOn[5thF] wrote: So why didn't you say so? Against some nitty villains its a perfectly standard 3bet -.- (with KQo, and I don't see why your 3bet is huge, seems standard)

in my first post i state " shitty regs are killing me "

and since when is 14bb pf standard?

I thought that was just a rant, but ye, taking an exploitable makes a lot of sense now, thanks for your answers, I just wanted to start a discussion and your thought process

And 14bb oop is completely standard against 4x opener

played fine lol, turn check to increase the calling frequency under pp's from villain