check flop, or just get it in for 130 blinds?

hm...reads/stats? i think flop check is ok vs certain players

really this seems OK in a 3bet pot? maybe my tilt is spilling into hand comments I will remove mine.. I still think this AA and the JJ are played really weakly and they look like tilty plays

it's kinda important to know at least a little about his 3bet calling range

vs. normal villains on nl200 6max i'd never fold because every single hand has improved to at least a setdraw+gutshot or pair+straightdraw (for the sc's) so they'll (semi) bluff their asses off
you said this guy will never bluff??

as played it looks like he's trying to get a load of value on the river, so you saved some money with this line

On September 20 2010 00:25 Night2o1 wrote: really this seems OK in a 3bet pot? maybe my tilt is spilling into hand comments I will remove mine.. I still think this AA and the JJ are played really weakly and they look like tilty plays

lol dont remove it i could be wrong

i don't know if it's right vs this guy but it's ok vs some imo...basically vs people who you think stacking off on this flop is going to be very marginal if not -ev but who are smart enough to realize raising this flop is going to suck for the majority of your range. also keep your range wide and you can still get 2 streets on blanks from JJ/QQ etc (even though there's a lot of non-blanks i guess). also hands with pair+oesd like JT or whatever will probably lead turn when they have less equity vs us compared to flop.

ok i just asked steve he said check behind flop seems good unless bravo is retarded

yeh ignore the turn and river cause its obvious he has a big hand

but on flops like these i'm pretty confused in spots like these. Cause i think AA KK QQ stack off pre, and he prob doesn't turn AK and AQ into bluffs. And i think the majority of people's flatting range is like AK, and pp's and suited connectors. Alot which hit this board.

like this is a hard spot to really find out how opponents play because i think coordianted boards like these are hard to come by as well as hard to go to sd enuff to see how he plays these hands.

pretty much looking for default info which u guys pretty much gave default responses to due to a lack of specification in my question (because i have none).

On September 20 2010 00:49 bigredhoss wrote: ok i just asked steve he said check behind flop seems good unless bravo is retarded

who is steve? and we used to help each other out back in the day if u remember. u actually helped me reach nl200

I am not sure who I would decide this is -ev vs to bet/get it in flop in a bvb 3b pot is my biggest thing here. It being an extra 30bbs deep has no bearing on this situation at all imo. Most villains look at this flop w QQ JJ KK and go "yes bingo" IMO. Villains will flat JJ-KK oop here all the time

meh I guess if PU says x behind is good, alright I lose or maybe this is how nl50 villains behave, my bad.

I finally just stoved it and equity is far worse than I thought even in 3b pot. Nevermind everything I posted here. ^^

who is steve? and we used to help each other out back in the day if u remember. u actually helped me reach nl200

steve is pooruser

did you have the same username? ive taken some long breaks from poker and i have a bad memory

hah, my memory is worse, i can't even remember my old account. but yea, back when i used to play lower stakes, people posted bad advice alot with good intentions which clouded my game. but you consistently provided very good advice which i was most appreciative of.

and that's pretty cool to have steve as a friend :D

anyway yea, i pretty much quit poker for a while too. had to get my shit together/still in the process.
i'm glad for poker, and would love to reach nl400. that's pretty much my goal atm.

On September 20 2010 00:54 Night2o1 wrote: I am not sure who I would decide this is -ev vs to bet/get it in flop in a bvb 3b pot is my biggest thing here. It being an extra 30bbs deep has no bearing on this situation at all imo. Most villains look at this flop w QQ JJ KK and go "yes bingo" IMO. Villains will flat JJ-KK oop here all the time meh I guess if PU says x behind is good, alright I lose or maybe this is how nl50 villains behave, my bad. I finally just stoved it and equity is worse than I thought even in 3b pot.

hmm i dunno, i look at this flop with JJ-KK and go "fml". i think 130bb's makes a little difference because some people will lean more towards calling 3bets with SC's (although fwiw i'd feel the same way about checking behind this board if it were 100bb's).

but yeah main thing is you're getting it in either pretty bad or slightly ahead vs most sane people's ranges. some people will stack off JJ-KK but i dunno how often.

yeh I pretty much retract everything I said for this board. our equity is terrible on 3 straight board, didn't realize how little of a difference it makes it being a 3bet pot

see your advice is so good

esp this part
"hmm i dunno, i look at this flop with JJ-KK and go "fml". i think 130bb's makes a little difference because some people will lean more towards calling 3bets with SC's (although fwiw i'd feel the same way about checking behind this board if it were 100bb's)."

that whole thing about leaning towards calling with scs is very applicable, and i also say fml when i see this flop with JJ-KK

lol

who likes shoving turn. its kinda cool =_= haven't thought it through yet but it might have some merit. i wonder how many light calls we induce if we shove. sounds pretty cool 100NL players might level themselves

ya I think trying to put more money in on the turn is a great idea and this is like a good tur nfor it too, your hand looks so FOS

On September 20 2010 01:02 mnj wrote: hah, my memory is worse, i can't even remember my old account. but yea, back when i used to play lower stakes, people posted bad advice alot with good intentions which clouded my game. but you consistently provided very good advice which i was most appreciative of. and that's pretty cool to have steve as a friend :D anyway yea, i pretty much quit poker for a while too. had to get my shit together/still in the process. i'm glad for poker, and would love to reach nl400. that's pretty much my goal atm.

iirc your old account's name was jasper something.

i think shoving the turn is kinda cool mainly because wtf hand would we EVER do that with. and i think a lot of people bet AA or EXPECT AA to bet here esp at 100NL. so our range just looks like nothing. basically who the hell knows what draw or bluff we have here, but people will just think about made hands and decide to call. also a hand like JJ i think dont fold here when we SHOVE. fwiw i dont like raise getting it in, just actually shoving

Didn't read hand but I gotta post here because it has 20 replies.

On September 20 2010 01:16 DooMeR wrote: who likes shoving turn. its kinda cool =_= haven't thought it through yet but it might have some merit. i wonder how many light calls we induce if we shove. sounds pretty cool 100NL players might level themselves

hah yeah that's interesting, i'd wanna have a read to try it tho. like some % you'll get "herocalls" but you'll also lose a river vbet a lot of the time too...i dunno, it's probably really good vs some people, i'd wanna have a read first tho.

On September 20 2010 01:20 edzwoo wrote: Show nested quote + On September 20 2010 01:02 mnj wrote: hah, my memory is worse, i can't even remember my old account. but yea, back when i used to play lower stakes, people posted bad advice alot with good intentions which clouded my game. but you consistently provided very good advice which i was most appreciative of. and that's pretty cool to have steve as a friend :D anyway yea, i pretty much quit poker for a while too. had to get my shit together/still in the process. i'm glad for poker, and would love to reach nl400. that's pretty much my goal atm. iirc your old account's name was jasper something.

ah yeah that sounds familiar

hmm i dont think we could really have a read on such a situation until we shoved. lol

plus its something that happens to rarely and is SOOO WIERD. that i think people just click call also we get MAXIMUM value from hands like JJ where they might or might not bet a blank riv and we at best get 1 bet from them. Also hands that might have outs we actually fold out. HELL WHAT IF HE HAS AQss he might fold it lol and if not we actually get it in good and protect ourselves from getting bluffed.

a LOT of protection in shoving here imo makes the hand sick easy to play and we erase a LOT of hands that have equity against us that we are NEVER getting more money from. more i think about it the more i love it.

checking this flop is almost standard ;-0

bet folding is the worst play IMO

hmm i dont think we could really have a read on such a situation until we shoved. lol

well you can have a read on if they have a propensity to make herocalls or notice when a line doesn't really make sense.

but yeah it's a cool idea :o

On September 20 2010 01:36 TalentedTom wrote: checking this flop is almost standard ;-0 bet folding is the worst play IMO

(editing bet-fold option out of my original reply LOL)

lol

I would of made the 3bet larger pre since your deep, everything else plays itself postflop