i like to get dealt cards before i 4bet someone

Fold to 3b 4/4
3b in sb 4/11

2/2010 NL25 *pre* -iso $1 suited junk *3b* *post* -call min raise overs donk turned sd

Waddya do with
aa
kk
aq
kt
ak

+ Show Spoiler +

On February 19 2011 05:18 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Waddya do with aa shove kk shove aq shove kt shove ak fold

On February 19 2011 05:24 bigredhoss wrote: Show nested quote + On February 19 2011 05:18 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Waddya do with aa shove kk shove aq shove kt shove ak fold

is it because fuck him donking like this makes no sense with value hands?
Oh and he SNAP bet. Why would anyone bet likes this ever anyway with anything?

Lets say we had AJ or TT here, would you still ship it?

kind of, but mostly because it's a 4-bet pot. his AF being super high doesn't hurt either.

I would fold TT for sure, AJ is definitely not the same as TT here and I think it would be a tough decision, probably still fold though i guess.

TT is the same as AJ on that board, IMO.

On February 19 2011 06:04 TheHuHu3 wrote: TT is the same as AJ on that board, IMO.

people who call 4bets and donkbet a lot will do it with any Q or J on that board imo (which makes no sense, but neither does donking nearly fullpot on this board). i would guess AJ/KJ/JTs are still in his range. i guess AJ isn't that tough of a fold but i don't think it's the same as TT.

would probably take a look at his donkbet stat

On February 19 2011 06:08 bigredhoss wrote: would probably take a look at his donkbet stat

0/1. Btw how does this change with our image where I played nitty with 2% 3b so far and never 3bet him virtually never went to showdown and folded to his 3bets?

it's not the same as TT cause we will have more than 2 outs vs. some of his hands and it also beats all his Jx hands. + blocker to KT. They are both 70/30 vs. AK

I don't see why we would be in this position with AJ to begin with, but still.

0/1. Btw how does this change with our image where I played nitty with 2% 3b so far and never 3bet him never went to showdown and folded to his 3bets?

well it should make our range look tighter and in theory make his range tighter which i guess is why you're wanting to fold KK here...but until proven otherwise i'm assuming a random 25nl player who's flatting 4-bets preflop and donking lolpot into me here is just retarded.

folding KK here is something you do against FR nits, not 6max aggrotards.

i would put his range on Qx/Jx/KT + occasional spazzing.

I don't like 4-betting with hands that can be easily dominated, so KT I'd just fold pre-flop to his 3-bet. As played, I shove everything except AK.

Kapol isn't this a good theoretical 4b spot with blockers when we never 4bet him and folded to his 3b so far (and never saw him flat a 4b OOP ;o)?

At NL25 I wouldn't get into so much detail while playing. I like to keep it simple and play straightforward poker. This way I can open more tables and reduce variance, while increasing my win-rate at the same time by playing good tight/nitty poker.
I'm not saying that what you are doing is bad. I'm just saying that spots like this one happen so rarely at these stakes that you should just give up here with KT and move on to the next hand where you'll stack him with a monster.
Your goal in poker is to make money. I'd rather good enough to be brake even at NL100/NL200 and try to outplay my opponents in a non-standard way there (and make a ton of VPPs) than try to increase my win-rate at micro-stakes by 0.5ptBB/100 by trying to outplay NL25 regs. It just isn't worth it. Just open up a couple more tables, grind and quickly move up to where they respect your raises .

Why would we 4bet TT in position vs someone who 3bets 13%?. When you 4bet him are you bluffing or doing it for value? If he calls your 4 bet and you are 4betting as a bluff with fluff and hit this board marginally, Im snap folding to this donk bet. People dont bluff as often as you think they do at micro stakes. However if I am 4betting for value, I will be doing it with QQ-AA and AK imo, and will be shipping all those hands on this flop. Usually if someone has high 3bet% they going to fold alot to 4bets so when he calls oop and leads the flop, you are royally fucked unless you have the above 4bet value range.

Hands I expect to see from him, JJ-AA. I be extremely suprised he shows up with worse...

just keep it tight and simple at 25nl and adapt to how people play at these stakes which is like almost zero bluffs but hate folding/raising marginal and weakish holdings. Prob start being stack-happy and go into deeper thinking in good spots at 50nl upwards since then there's a lot more competent training video guys who are more predisposed to level themselves alot